01-27-14 03:36 PM
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  1. LoganSix's Avatar
    Somewhat related ... Even if I agreed that the Z30 were awesome, I can't get an AT&T version.
    Hopefully the next releases somehow help to mend fences with the folks at AT&T.
    Technically, you could get an STA100-5 unlocked and it will work on AT&T.
    You just can't get an AT&T subsidized Z30.
    01-23-14 02:56 PM
  2. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    At the very least they have to upgrade there hardware every 2 years. In 2 years if there isnt a next generation Z10/Z30 what would I buy as a consumer? Buy that time there hardware has to improve so people continue to buy your product. Also I would think they stop allowing newer OS upgrades on the older generation models.
    I don't know about one single player in the smartphone field, that doesn't allow buyers to have upgraded hardware at least once a year.

    A 2 year refresh cycle is probably the strangest thing I have heard in a long time.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-14 03:02 PM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    It's not like the first version of the Android runtime ran everything and there was no need to write native versions. Even for the apps that worked under the runtime, developers weren't even spending the minimal time to repackage. Developers were not interested. The big push for better Android support was probably a result of this lack of interest. Users now have a chance at getting desired apps with the newer runtime.
    It's sounds nice in theory, but doesn't work like that in the real world.
    Android apps perform worse on a BlackBerry10 phone than on an equivalently priced Android phone.
    There are still no Google services that you need for things like the Play Store or Google Maps.
    And there is a huge difference in quality, between an Android port/APK and a native app.

    To say it simply: If I want Android apps, I will get an Android phone.
    Obviously the market agrees with me.

    You also seem to have missed that WP now conquered the 3rd place, even though they lack a certain number of important apps.
    They did it, without an Android player though, just focusing on native apps.
    Obviously the overall quality of their app store therefore is superior.

    This also relates to devs and their inexistant voluntariness to make apps for BB10. Because BB10 also "understands" Android apps, there is pretty much no incentive to make a native one.
    Not even talking about the lack of interest to even port their apps.


    As for going full Android, how has that worked out for the majority of Android handset manufacturers? They've skinned Android to set themselves apart and that hasn't been profitable. If they don't skin, it'll just be a specs or marketing game, both of which BlackBerry hasn't been good at, as the OP and you have pointed out.
    The majority of handset manufacturers are still in business and produce one phone after the other.
    Thanks to Androids openess and being pretty much gratis, a lot of local manufacturers emerged and actually make good money.

    Yes, they don't play a big role in the international markets, but you have to begin somewhere.
    Here an article which illustrates it pretty well:
    http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/06/2...annual-growth/

    It's not like I don't get your point, and to a certain extent I even agree here.
    But it's wrong to say that Android will make you go broke, and it's wrong to say that there isn't a security niche in the realm of Android manufacturers.

    Posted via CB10
    WorkStation 0 likes this.
    01-23-14 03:17 PM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I actually don't see it this way. I think nowadays, in the US at least, people want the best of the best. Instead of getting a device that they can afford, they save up until they can get what they want. I don't think anybody has an interest in cheap BlackBerries. It's hard enough getting traction with high end BlackBerries. It also affects the image that the company portrays. If BlackBerry only produces quality devices, they will be known for quality devices. That's exactly what Apple is known for. They tried to cater to other areas with the 5C, which isn't a bad device at all, and failed. People would rather save up for the device that they want, than to get what they can afford -- Keeping up with the Jones's if you will.

    Posted with my Q10!
    I have to disagree vehemently with the assertion, that it would be bad for BlackBerry's image.

    First of all, nothing could damage their image even more, than it already is right now.
    I know that most posters on CB don't really understand that train of thought, but BlackBerry is the laughing stock of the current smartphone industry.

    We further proceed to your thought of cheap devices diluting the brand identity..
    Just take Nokia as an example, and you know why it's wrong to say it.
    They have a 80$ smartphone and the only thing you'll hear, is how incredibly awesome the phone is for the price.

    The cheap devices actually helped Nokia immensely and don't, in any way damage their reputation. It's much rather the contriary.
    And Nokia also sells devices "successfully enough" in the high end segment of the market.

    Exactly the same applies to Samsung. They have phones in every price segment, and are logically the leader in terms of marketshare.
    Something that Apple didn't even bother to do.

    Talking about the 5C, I get the impression that most people misunderstood the phone.
    It wasn't there to sell record numbers, it was there to lower the manufacturing costs on the iPhone 5, and to make the 5s even more attractive.
    From everything I've read, I would say that Apple was successful with the strategy.
    Here an article that talks about that strategy:
    http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/09...er-would-have/

    To end my useless essay, I will talk about smartphone buyers and why it's wrong to say that "westerners" only want high-end phones:
    The reason is commodisation.
    Smartphones have already become so powerful, that you have less and less reasons to buy a high-end device with a high-end price tag.
    It's just like some people said in the thread:
    There is no innovation anymore.

    The difference between a mid-tier device and a high-end one, lies in its hardware capabilities.
    And because the mid-range is already performing so well, it's actually a waste of money to buy high-end phones nowadays.
    We can see the exact same developments in the PC market:
    Who still buys a 2000$ PC, if the person doesn't need it?
    Right, the one who absolutely has to have a status symbol.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-14 03:33 PM
  5. LWKING's Avatar
    I have to disagree vehemently with the assertion, that it would be bad for BlackBerry's image.

    First of all, nothing could damage their image even more, than it already is right now.
    I know that most posters on CB don't really understand that train of thought, but BlackBerry is the laughing stock of the current smartphone industry.

    We further proceed to your thought of cheap devices diluting the brand identity..
    Just take Nokia as an example, and you know why it's wrong to say it.
    They have a 80$ smartphone and the only thing you'll hear, is how incredibly awesome the phone is for the price.

    The cheap devices actually helped Nokia immensely and don't, in any way damage their reputation. It's much rather the contriary.
    And Nokia also sells devices "successfully enough" in the high end segment of the market.

    Exactly the same applies to Samsung. They have phones in every price segment, and are logically the leader in terms of marketshare.
    Something that Apple didn't even bother to do.

    Talking about the 5C, I get the impression that most people misunderstood the phone.
    It wasn't there to sell record numbers, it was there to lower the manufacturing costs on the iPhone 5, and to make the 5s even more attractive.
    From everything I've read, I would say that Apple was successful with the strategy.
    Here an article that talks about that strategy:
    http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/09...er-would-have/

    To end my useless essay, I will talk about smartphone buyers and why it's wrong to say that "westerners" only want high-end phones:
    The reason is commodisation.
    Smartphones have already become so powerful, that you have less and less reasons to buy a high-end device with a high-end price tag.
    It's just like some people said in the thread:
    There is no innovation anymore.

    The difference between a mid-tier device and a high-end one, lies in its hardware capabilities.
    And because the mid-range is already performing so well, it's actually a waste of money to buy high-end phones nowadays.
    We can see the exact same developments in the PC market:
    Who still buys a 2000$ PC, if the person doesn't need it?
    Right, the one who absolutely has to have a status symbol.

    Posted via CB10
    Allow me to further explain. Yes, BlackBerry is a joke to the majority of the world, but they want to be taken seriously. I can only speak from a US point of view here.

    BlackBerry owners are aware of the many different offerings that the company had in the past. Non BlackBerry owners think of only one device. It's not the BlackBerry 9900, it's not the Z10, nor the Q10, or the Z30. It's a BlackBerry. It's not like retailers are stocking each of these models for customers to see the difference between the devices. They'll carry 1 or 2 devices if any at all. BlackBerry should focus only on high end devices and let the older devices make up the mid and low tiers. This lowers production costs for the company by streamlining manufacturing and ultimately leads to better quality devices. If BlackBerry was in a better financial position, I'd agree with you. My original point still stands in my previous post as well. I do hope one of the devices they release is a slider. I think many people would want a device that has the best of both worlds if the build quality is fantastic. They need to reinvent the slider.

    The Jakarta is BlackBerry's answer to the cheap Nokia phone. This desperately needed to happen as the emerging markets cannot be ignored. I don't believe that the Jakarta should be seen anywhere, but emerging markets.

    BlackBerry cannot afford to compete with the other manufacturers on a 5 device scale. Chen made a good move by dumping the Kopi and whatever the other low end model that was planned to be released. In the end, it would have amounted to wasted resources.

    I agree with your statement about high end phones being a waste of money vs a midrange device. However, it has not been this way thus far. I believe that 2014 is the year that many will begin to take notice of this.


    Posted with my Q10!
    01-23-14 04:22 PM
  6. deptech's Avatar
    Allow me to further explain. Yes, BlackBerry is a joke to the majority of the world, but they want to be taken seriously. I can only speak from a US point of view here.

    BlackBerry owners are aware of the many different offerings that the company had in the past. Non BlackBerry owners think of only one device. It's not the BlackBerry 9900, it's not the Z10, nor the Q10, or the Z30. It's a BlackBerry. It's not like retailers are stocking each of these models for customers to see the difference between the devices. They'll carry 1 or 2 devices if any at all. BlackBerry should focus only on high end devices and let the older devices make up the mid and low tiers. This lowers production costs for the company by streamlining manufacturing and ultimately leads to better quality devices. If BlackBerry was in a better financial position, I'd agree with you. My original point still stands in my previous post as well. I do hope one of the devices they release is a slider. I think many people would want a device that has the best of both worlds if the build quality is fantastic. They need to reinvent the slider.

    The Jakarta is BlackBerry's answer to the cheap Nokia phone. This desperately needed to happen as the emerging markets cannot be ignored. I don't believe that the Jakarta should be seen anywhere, but emerging markets.

    BlackBerry cannot afford to compete with the other manufacturers on a 5 device scale. Chen made a good move by dumping the Kopi and whatever the other low end model that was planned to be released. In the end, it would have amounted to wasted resources.

    I agree with your statement about high end phones being a waste of money vs a midrange device. However, it has not been this way thus far. I believe that 2014 is the year that many will begin to take notice of this.


    Posted with my Q10!
    So your the voice for the entire world, really, you lost me with that comment....

    Z30 on 2.2.1.1925 in Canada
    01-23-14 04:49 PM
  7. ChainPunch's Avatar
    The only thing we know from sure is that Blackberry will release at least 2 phones this year, the replacement for the Q10 (which will be consider high end by Blackberry) and the low end touch screen device (Jakarta). So far it seemed that Chen is willing to make the tough decisions and that is why he cancel the release of the 2 lower end blackberry produce devices and went to planning the release of Jakarta.

    I expect that Blackberry is only expecting to release two phones this year and is taking a wait and see appoarch for the other two possible phones releases ( the replacement for the Z30 and low end q type device by foxconn).
    01-23-14 05:04 PM
  8. LWKING's Avatar
    So your the voice for the entire world, really, you lost me with that comment....

    Z30 on 2.2.1.1925 in Canada
    I love BlackBerry. I'm not the voice of the world. You're gonna have to explain more

    Posted with my Q10!
    01-23-14 06:30 PM
  9. higherdestiny's Avatar
    BB10 still can't backup wirelessly, what is this 2008?

    Bb10 still can't do DLNA.

    Don't care about apple, but those are things bbos could do just fine.
    Erm. BB10 syncs and backs up a whole host of data over wifi with BlackBerry link. From photos to music to videos.

    And I use DNLA on my BlackBerry Z30 to stream audio to my DNLA compatible TV. You must be trippin.
    deptech and extisis like this.
    01-23-14 06:57 PM
  10. higherdestiny's Avatar
    PEOPLE.

    Why are we arguing about a lack of information about the next gen BlackBerry?

    Don't you realize that BlackBerry actually wants to keep future releases secret? Much like every single other smartphone manufacturer? When's the last time Apple release information about their future roadmap, or committed to supporting certain technologies on future products. Never! It's not in their interest to do so.

    BlackBerry will, when the time is right, announce a next gen product and reveal details when the device is ready to come to market. This is how every single smartphone company works.

    So please, let's stop crying about the lack of leaked information. Let's stop judging BlackBerry on what we simply don't yet know. Let's stop proclaiming their doom simply because we can't see what's just around the corner.

    It will come. BlackBerry are very busy right now working on some amazing things. Let it come.
    habs_fan and deptech like this.
    01-23-14 07:04 PM
  11. badiyee's Avatar
    In regards to your first point, there is a distinct lack of road map information which was my point.
    As to the second it's clear that next generation is a disputed term. I think that the s4 is clearly a later gen phone than the s2.
    My question was do you think it will harm BlackBerry and I think it will have an adverse effect.
    I think BlackBerry needs to improve the next phones to make them more enhanced then what we have now. That could be voice control like the moto X for example.
    The rest of your post is obnoxious and not worth me bothering with. I quite clearly stated earlier in the thread I don't expect a phone every week.
    Finally, if you can't have a civil discussion please refrain from posting in this thread. I'm not interested in arguments and insults.
    I genuinely want to know what people think and some people have disagreed with me in constructive manner that has raised points I never considered. If I wanted mocking and insults I will ask for them

    Posted via CB10

    1. Is the roadmap meant to be leaked for consumers? No.
    2. You only state your opinion that s4 is a "next gen" device over the s2, and you claim the z30 is not a next gen device over the z10. What constitutes "next gen"? All you have been doing, up to this point, is to avoid this question again and again, that is PLEASE DEFINE WHAT IS NEXT GEN.
    3. You said the LACK of next gen devices harm BlackBerry. Please also elaborate how many device iterations must BlackBerry produce in order to say that there is NOT a LACK of next gen devices. You have also failed to quantify this.

    Taking point 2 and 3 together, and with all your posts thus far, all you have been doing is only shifting the goalposts every time somebody pointed out (not just me alone) that you don't even define the parameters.

    If you think i'm obnxious, the report button is RIGHT THERE. CLICK IT! It is your priviledge. The ignore button is also right there. Thank you for your patronage of being "i think you are rude, and i'm not going to talk to you just because i'm kinder than you".

    Note, you are looking for a "constructive" discussion, but all I can see is just you taking potshots at BlackBerry without even acknowledging the counterarguments raised. Even when one raised the argument that OS updates are available (about improvements) you quickly deflected it by saying "oh i didn't get it so it doesn't matter", and to add insult you just said "the only improvement i see is that blackberry is helping the competition by adding android into the device". Here's the problem with the arguments,

    1a) you were only quantifiying your opinion, and that isn't a fact. Fact was there were people that did get the updates and there were people who felt it was a genuine update (despite some claiming it wasn't, but i'll focus on the a quantifiable number that there were people *felt* (emphasis on the word felt as opinion, not fact) which only holds the same water as per your argument about "it doesn't matter" or "it only helps the competition")

    You genuinely want to know what people think? That was what I thought, and there's no room for "selectively genuinely wanting to know people to think".


    1. What constitutes "next gen devices"?
    2. What constitutes "lack of next gen devices?

    3. You claimed that you're not looking for phones week after week after week, but you did not even bother to clarify the paramenters about #1, and #2, and yet you went on to quote "oh the sony z1 is an upgrade over the z, and we blackBerry users are only getting a low cost device with no sight of a high end device anywhere". Please again clarify if you know the roadmap for 2014 intricately?

    Z released January
    z1 released september.

    (8month gap, with the z ultra released in june).

    When I even pointed out since BlackBerry z10 was released about less than 365 days ago, with the iterations of q10, z5, and z30, the only thing you replied was to poo-pooh the statement "and is this date not even remotely close to 31st January?)"

    I've pointed the logic of yours and where its flawed, and where you conveniently, selectively cherry pick the points which you think you can deflect, which the ones you refuse to elaborate on, despite your claims that you want a "constructive" discussion, and I get a "you're obnoxious". Thank you very much.
    deptech, ray689, habs_fan and 1 others like this.
    01-23-14 07:14 PM
  12. deptech's Avatar
    Too much BlackBerry trashing has been going on for a couple of days in a few posts, thanks for pointing it out, I thought I was the only one who has problems with this.



    Z30 on 2.2.1.1925 in Canada
    01-23-14 07:18 PM
  13. extisis's Avatar
    A Z10/Q10 and even the Z30 will work for enterprises the same as an updated model would do.
    ^^ this is key.
    01-23-14 07:24 PM
  14. extisis's Avatar
    PEOPLE.

    Why are we arguing about a lack of information about the next gen BlackBerry?

    Don't you realize that BlackBerry actually wants to keep future releases secret? Much like every single other smartphone manufacturer? When's the last time Apple release information about their future roadmap, or committed to supporting certain technologies on future products. Never! It's not in their interest to do so.

    BlackBerry will, when the time is right, announce a next gen product and reveal details when the device is ready to come to market. This is how every single smartphone company works.

    So please, let's stop crying about the lack of leaked information. Let's stop judging BlackBerry on what we simply don't yet know. Let's stop proclaiming their doom simply because we can't see what's just around the corner.

    It will come. BlackBerry are very busy right now working on some amazing things. Let it come.
    i like the font, size and color to get people's attention. but. it's all just opinions and thus the whole point of this forum, let alone this thread. have a Heineken man and calm down.
    01-23-14 07:27 PM
  15. ray689's Avatar
    Too much BlackBerry trashing has been going on for a couple of days in a few posts, thanks for pointing it out, I thought I was the only one who has problems with this.



    Z30 on 2.2.1.1925 in Canada
    Yup the usual suspects.

    Posted via CB10
    habs_fan likes this.
    01-23-14 07:40 PM
  16. LWKING's Avatar
    i like the font, size and color to get people's attention. but. it's all just opinions and thus the whole point of this forum, let alone this thread. have a Heineken man and calm down.
    Good choice

    Posted with my Q10!
    01-23-14 07:46 PM
  17. h20work's Avatar
    Too much BlackBerry trashing has been going on for a couple of days in a few posts, thanks for pointing it out, I thought I was the only one who has problems with this.



    Z30 on 2.2.1.1925 in Canada
    Who was trashing bbry?
    01-23-14 07:54 PM
  18. h20work's Avatar
    Erm. BB10 syncs and backs up a whole host of data over wifi with BlackBerry link. From photos to music to videos.

    And I use DNLA on my BlackBerry Z30 to stream audio to my DNLA compatible TV. You must be trippin.
    Ermm, that's not a a backup. Can you do a restore with that data? You know, like a bbos device using Protect.

    Try watching a movie on your TV using a z10 with dlna and get back to me. I keep my shoe laces tied to prevent trippin.....
    01-23-14 07:59 PM
  19. ray689's Avatar
    I thought the usual suspects all were banned?

    Haven't seen bradu, kw, and playbookster bringing up android and iPhones in every single thread.
    You mean make logical arguments with credibility?
    You keep saying how the Z30 was no different than the Z10. People gave you many examples of new features...to all you stated weren't an enhancement at all. You then proceeded to talk about apple and Samsung and how their new devices were such a big step above the previous devices. When asked what the iPhone 5S has over the iPhone 5, you failed to answer the question. You know why, because it doesn't.
    Not sure what you are so angry at BlackBerry about that you feel the need to make statements that aren't true and try to pass them off as fact. If BlackBerry somehow failed you then you have options.

    Edit: and leaving a troll infested bash fest is not the same as being banned. Get that fact straight.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-14 08:17 PM
  20. bradu1's Avatar
    Wait what? What are you doing here?

    Posted via CB10
    Heard somebody thought I was banned. Heck, my last post, Bla1ze complimented me. Said I made it easier to get rid of those they're trying to get rid of... thought if H2O thought I was banned, I'd come by and say hi. See how Bla1ze's project was coming along.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-14 08:27 PM
  21. h20work's Avatar
    You mean make logical arguments with credibility?
    You keep saying how the Z30 was no different than the Z10. People gave you many examples of new features...to all you stated weren't an enhancement at all. You then proceeded to talk about apple and Samsung and how their new devices were such a big step above the previous devices. When asked what the iPhone 5S has over the iPhone 5, you failed to answer the question. You know why, because it doesn't.
    Not sure what you are so angry at BlackBerry about that you feel the need to make statements that aren't true and try to pass them off as fact. If BlackBerry somehow failed you then you have options.

    Edit: and leaving a troll infested bash fest is not the same as being banned. Get that fact straight.

    Posted via CB10
    I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I never mentioned apple, (logansix) or samsung. Never said anything about the z30 other than it has limited availability. Unlike some here, I don't care about apple and Android.

    Go back and find who you meant to quote and try again
    01-23-14 08:29 PM
  22. ray689's Avatar
    I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I never mentioned apple, (logansix) or samsung. Never said anything about the z30 other than it has limited availability. Unlike some here, I don't care about apple and Android.

    Go back and find who you meant to quote and try again
    Guess I can't tell all of you apart anymore. Too many of you. Needless to say, you are spreading false information and bashing. So if the shoe fits...

    Posted via CB10
    deptech likes this.
    01-23-14 08:36 PM
  23. bhrgvr's Avatar
    If BlackBerry stops making the Z series I will not go back to the Q series. I personally think that the Z is awesome. I maybe one of the last to pick up the Z30 in India and will keep it for future use. I may also think of going to the Android or Ubuntu platform phones. Definitely not Samsung but maybe the HP slate series.

    Posted via CB10.
    01-23-14 08:44 PM
  24. h20work's Avatar
    Guess I can't tell all of you apart anymore. Too many of you. Needless to say, you are spreading false information and bashing. So if the shoe fits...

    Posted via CB10
    What did I say was false?

    I said the z30 is only available on one carrier in the US. That's true.

    I said bb10 can't wirelessly backup like bbos could. Again, that's true.

    I said dlna media streaming on my z10 doesn't work, but it works on my bbos. Again, that's true.

    Thanks for trying, maybe brush up on your reading skills before making accusations next time.
    01-23-14 08:45 PM
  25. ray689's Avatar
    What did I say was false?

    I said the z30 is only available on one carrier in the US. That's true.

    I said bb10 can't wirelessly backup like bbos could. Again, that's true.

    I said dlna media streaming on my z10 doesn't work, but it works on my bbos. Again, that's true.

    Thanks for trying, maybe brush up on your reading skills before making accusations next time.
    DLNA does work. You might want to read up on how to use it.

    Posted via CB10
    deptech likes this.
    01-23-14 08:47 PM
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