[darkehawke]

1. Is the roadmap meant to be leaked for consumers? No.
2. You only state your opinion that s4 is a "next gen" device over the s2, and you claim the z30 is not a next gen device over the z10. What constitutes "next gen"? All you have been doing, up to this point, is to avoid this question again and again, that is PLEASE DEFINE WHAT IS NEXT GEN.
3. You said the LACK of next gen devices harm BlackBerry. Please also elaborate how many device iterations must BlackBerry produce in order to say that there is NOT a LACK of next gen devices. You have also failed to quantify this.

Taking point 2 and 3 together, and with all your posts thus far, all you have been doing is only shifting the goalposts every time somebody pointed out (not just me alone) that you don't even define the parameters.

If you think i'm obnxious, the report button is RIGHT THERE. CLICK IT! It is your priviledge. The ignore button is also right there. Thank you for your patronage of being "i think you are rude, and i'm not going to talk to you just because i'm kinder than you".

Note, you are looking for a "constructive" discussion, but all I can see is just you taking potshots at BlackBerry without even acknowledging the counterarguments raised. Even when one raised the argument that OS updates are available (about improvements) you quickly deflected it by saying "oh i didn't get it so it doesn't matter", and to add insult you just said "the only improvement i see is that blackberry is helping the competition by adding android into the device". Here's the problem with the arguments,

1a) you were only quantifiying your opinion, and that isn't a fact. Fact was there were people that did get the updates and there were people who felt it was a genuine update (despite some claiming it wasn't, but i'll focus on the a quantifiable number that there were people *felt* (emphasis on the word felt as opinion, not fact) which only holds the same water as per your argument about "it doesn't matter" or "it only helps the competition")

You genuinely want to know what people think? That was what I thought, and there's no room for "selectively genuinely wanting to know people to think".


1. What constitutes "next gen devices"?
2. What constitutes "lack of next gen devices?

3. You claimed that you're not looking for phones week after week after week, but you did not even bother to clarify the paramenters about #1, and #2, and yet you went on to quote "oh the sony z1 is an upgrade over the z, and we blackBerry users are only getting a low cost device with no sight of a high end device anywhere". Please again clarify if you know the roadmap for 2014 intricately?

Z released January
z1 released september.

(8month gap, with the z ultra released in june).

When I even pointed out since BlackBerry z10 was released about less than 365 days ago, with the iterations of q10, z5, and z30, the only thing you replied was to poo-pooh the statement "and is this date not even remotely close to 31st January?)"

I've pointed the logic of yours and where its flawed, and where you conveniently, selectively cherry pick the points which you think you can deflect, which the ones you refuse to elaborate on, despite your claims that you want a "constructive" discussion, and I get a "you're obnoxious". Thank you very much.

I think I see your point. Maybe the title should have been something about the lack of information over a next gen device. I certainly didn't mean to give the impression that BlackBerry will not be releasing one.
About the statement I pooh pooed. You claimed it's nowhere near the anniversary of BlackBerry 10 which is just false.
Again you don't seem to be reading because I have never claimed I haven't got updates. I have got them all. They have helped put BlackBerry 10 in a more stable position. But a lot of these updates simply should have been in BlackBerry 10 from the start.
First thing first. I'm sorry if it looks like I'm cherry picking arguments. I'm typing on my z10 usually and it means I tend to not see points as I type.
Let me point out that my thread is not to criticise or ignore the devices BlackBerry have released already. It's to discuss if the lack of information over upcoming devices will harm them? I think I can gather that you don't think it will.
Lastly if your posts were genuinely sincere I apologise for calling you rude and obnoxious. However I've read them again and still feel like they have the intent to mock and belittle my opinion. I'm not saying that is definitely your intent as it could be my perception that is wrong. I'm just pointing out that that is why I reacted as I did.
If I have missed any points you want me to clarify my opinion over please respond. However beat in mind it's harder to answer a long post fully as I am only using my phone atm

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

Nobody knows what line up is. That doesn't mean there isn't one which is what the thread was based on I guess.

Posted via CB10

The thread was based on the lack of information about the lineup this year. It was never my intention to give the perception that there is none this year.
Yes the title could have been better but I didn't realise that at the time

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

Blaize said that they launch a new High-end phone.

I hope that it is a touchscreen one, because I am not that interested in a Qwerty one.

If they only make a physical keyboard device this year, they just lost a potential customer.
I normally upgrade once a year, sometimes twice, which means that my Z10 will be replaced soon.

The Z30 is not an option.
If I want to get underwhelmed, I can buy a Moto G for the fraction of the price a Z30 would cost.

Posted via CB10

I think Chen confirmed a high end qwerty.

We know there are two devices.
1 is the jakarta which is touch screen
1 is a high end qwerty.
That's all that has been said by BlackBerry. Anything else is a rumour atm

Posted via CB10

[silversmith75]

why do you have to get a phone every year??? and who says bb won't release another phone?

[MarsupilamiX]

why do you have to get a phone every year??? and who says bb won't release another phone?

Do you mean me?
If yes, use quotes.

Do you mean someone else?
If yes, use quotes.

But the answer is pretty simple:
Because I like to.
That was mind blowing, right?

Posted via CB10

[The Big Picture]

I think they need to sort out their OS fragmentation issues first. Fragmentation hinders the development and growth of the app market for blackberry and turns away buyers. The recent news on a possible global rollout (though still subject to your carriers) would help a little but in all honesty i have no faith in carriers when it comes to pushing out blackberry 10 OS updates, simply because of their sales figures.

[--TommesJay--]

I see 5 devices a year as a minimum requirement for BlackBerry.
1 Touch and 1 keyboard entry device.
1 Touch mid-range device.
1 keyboard and 1 touch option in the high-end.
The 6th device could be a high-end slider.

This is an approach that is closer to Samsung than to Apple.
I see it like this, because BlackBerry needs to get BB10 in as much hands as possible, and that only works if you can cover all segments.

Posted via CB10

So, summing up all your posts,

*BlackBerry is a phone maker and nothing else
*The value a device delivers is determined only by the hardware parts it uses

Gotcha! And I disagree.

Posted via CB10

[Superfly_FR]

During the last years, I've been lucky enough to get/buy more devices at a pace I never reached before, at - or prior - official launch. PlayBooks (3X2), Dev Alpha, Z10(3), Q10, Q5, Z30 namely.

I must say it was fun, driven by the thirst of discovery of the "new BlackBerry".
Z30 is to me exactly what I desire for a smartphone. I met my buddy. Exactly like when I got my 9900 (upgrading from a 9000). Now, I step back and consider how much money I've (my SOHO) spent (we're on the $2000+ range) and rationalize : I'm nowhere able to maintain this rhythm. It won't happen. I have to select the proper device for my needs and stick to it as long at is is relevant and serve my work at best.

Serving my work at best is not "getting the next hype" device.
It's having a device I can trust and rely on. Every day. All days.
This is where RIM/BlackBerry - besides management and security - built his success in enterprises : long lasting devices with long renew cycles.
As far as I can feel my Z30, it meets these criteria and I believe its build quality could last even longer than a physical keyboard one (less mechanic = more durability). More, I believe its specs are sized big enough to support many OSes updates/upgrades in the next few years.

It's an important marketing approach to state that the company (BB) will not release - a la apple - a new device every 2-3 quarters and make employees feel they have a lemon in hands; the upgrade cycle must fit companies amortization plans (3-4 years here in FR) and avoid anticipated salivation, leading to frustration.

As you've noticed, I'm on a (tiny) company POV but I believe it's even more accurate for biggest ones. Of course, for individuals, we're not on the same cycles and motivations ... but wait ... that's the point : BlackBerry focusing on enterprises means that : get real, get efficient, get cost-productive. A new low-end price device makes sense, both for large "light blue collars" fleets and emerging (already emerged, if you ask me) nations. A hyper spec-ed device ? What for ?

I'm not sure of what devices - besides the Foxconn's low cost - we will see in 2014, so that the "lack of next gen" part of your question is to me an assertion that makes the answer pretty difficult. But, as of date and in regards to my (corporate) needs, I'd tend to say; no,on the contrary.

[extisis]

Do you mean me?
the answer is pretty simple:
Because I like to.
That was mind blowing, right?

Posted via CB10

My mind was just blown. I'm poor.

Posted via Z10 with CB10 on BB10 OS X.II.I.MCMXXV

[cbvinh]

I never said that the Android runtime alone stopped devs to make native apps, but it sure as hell didn't help.
Since you apparently analysed the situation so well (you didn't), what hinders devs to make native apps?
I might remind you that the app number in BBW, ignoring the app spam and subpar Android ports, isn't exactly overwhelming, even one year after its introduction.

Your hypothesis was that BlackBerry shouldn't have spent time on the Android runtime and spent more time getting developers to develop native apps. BlackBerry *did* spend a lot of resources to woo developers and I listed what they did already. The big name app developers weren't interested. Why? Because there weren't many BB10 users and BlackBerry had an uncertain future. Simple as that.

It's a fact that the WP app store has more of the important big named apps compared to BBW.
The same goes for the comment about all of them being native.
It's not even worth disputing or discussing that.

How do you think Windows Phone got those apps? If you're honest, then you'd admit that it was Microsoft paying for those apps and it's not due to the popularity of Windows Phone. BlackBerry does not have the resources to buy off developers like Microsoft.

If WP needed a better price point than before, to gain traction, then Nokia apparently understood the market better than BlackBerry.

Yep, they understood that to gain market share, to reach the holy grail of "#3", they needed to sell a ton of devices. They produced the low-end phones, making little profit, and *sacrificed* themselves. Windows Phone is #3 and Nokia is out of the hardware business.

Cost to get Windows Phone to #3: 1. regular cash infusion from Microsoft to Nokia, 2. tons of advertising from Microsoft, 3. paying off developers, and 4. Nokia.

Not to forget that there are a lot of different Android alternatives in the sub 100$ segment.
If the WP app store wouldn't offer a significant number of important apps, then an Android would obviously be the better alternative.
This implicates, that the growth for WP would have been far lower, without them.

People aren't buying sub-$100 phones based on app availability. They're buying them because they're cheap and whatever they can get app-wise is a bonus.

You asked how Android manufacturers are doing and I answered.
Local manufacturers are emerging more and more and there are Chinese manufacturers only selling in China, that outsell BB10.
Oh, and they make a profit.

Do they? And do they make enough profit to support a company the size of BlackBerry? That's the point I was making. Even if small manufacturers are able to make a profit, their sales volume cannot sustain a company the size of BlackBerry. BlackBerry, being the size they are, will need to compete with Samsung, LG, HTC, Sony, etc. That's what people will compare their hardware against, not these small manufacturers. On the specs/marketing front, BlackBerry cannot compete if they're just another Android manufacturer. They made the right decision in developing their own OS, especially with security as one of their trademark features. It didn't take long for them to get BB10 security certified.

Apart from that, we haven't seen one single of the "bigger" Android manufacturers go broke, did we?
Yes, some make losses, some are close to break even and others have a slight profit.
Then there is Samsung.

The question, then, would be where BlackBerry would fall in that spectrum if they had gone completely Android. Hardware-wise, you and the OP complained that BlackBerry hardware is not up to snuff. We all know that BlackBerry was doing pretty poorly marketing-wise. How would they have performed?

But you seem to ignore one very important fact: BlackBerry realises losses, as well.
And arguably, they lose even more than the Android manufacturers you refer too.

Let's take a look at a solid manufacturer like HTC. They make very good phones, with current specs and great design. Yet, for some reason, they're still losing money. Sure, they didn't take a huge hit like BlackBerry recently, but they're certainly struggling, all the while being a very good Android hardware manufacturer.

Personally I prefer BB10, but factually speaking, it's very doubtful that BlackBerry would lose even more when they go down the full Android road.
(But then I remember about the Android runtime, and that BlackBerry actually uses a part of Android in every single BB10 phone they sell. So you may have a point that Android is kinda toxic)

If you like BB10, then it makes no sense for you to be advocating for BlackBerry going full Android.

What are you arguing in favor of then?

[Superfly_FR]

I see 5 devices a year as a minimum requirement for BlackBerry.
1 Touch and 1 keyboard entry device.
1 Touch mid-range device.
1 keyboard and 1 touch option in the high-end.
The 6th device could be a high-end slider.

This is an approach that is closer to Samsung than to Apple.
I see it like this, because BlackBerry needs to get BB10 in as much hands as possible, and that only works if you can cover all segments.

Posted via CB10

That's your list to Santa ?
C'mon, can you provide even one manufacturer that offers this kind of year-based range ?
You say "closer to Samsung": did I miss a samy launch ? (edited : may be ...)
That's a machine gun strategy: no the one Chen is adopting. Far from it.

[kids: don't read]
Santa doesn't exist
[kids:sorry]

EDIT: I had to go to Samy's website to actually measure the smartphone range.
It appears that the Galaxy and Note do have many declinations , color and sizes (total: 28).
I'm not sure yet these are year-to-year or past models.

[Brutal Efficiency]

I would like to see BlackBerry keep doing what they are doing now - making excellent executive decisions and keeping their plans quite open to the World.

I think if BlackBerry wants to make a play for the High-End mobile sector, it probably *should* be something that blows the competition out of the water hardware-wise and formfactor-wise.

BlackBerry 10 software is what it is. It does beat the competition in various areas, and it falls short in many areas too. iOS 7, WP 8 and KitKat are the same. What is different about BlackBerry is that the general public don't know the strengths.

I can also comfortably say that the shortcomings of BlackBerry 10 are being rapidly eliminated.

Thoughts?

Quality Poultry - Channel PIN: C004B64D1

[Audux]

In my opinion, it is best that BlackBerry focus on empowering OS10 for the meantime.
Aside from the Dual-core CPU (Q10 and Z30), it would be fine with the competition for 2014.

If they keep on improving the software to utilize the hardware. Existing devices would surely improve its fame.

[MarsupilamiX]

So, summing up all your posts,

*BlackBerry is a phone maker and nothing else
*The value a device delivers is determined only by the hardware parts it uses

Gotcha! And I disagree.

Posted via CB10

Huh?
Where did I say that?

Especially in the post you quoted?
Do you have problems with reading comprehension?

My mind was just blown. I'm poor.

Posted via Z10 with CB10 on BB10 OS X.II.I.MCMXXV

Especially people with a lower income, would profit from more available devices per year, because a faster replacement cycle, obviously means that the prices have to fall quicker.

On the other hand, phones and smartphones always were kind of a hobby for me.
I had a pretty high number of phones already, and buying them on a yearly basis, ensures a higher resale value.
Well, as long as you didn't buy a Z10

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

That's your list to Santa ?
C'mon, can you provide even one manufacturer that offers this kind of year-based range ?
You say "closer to Samsung": did I miss a samy launch ? (edited : may be ...)
That's a machine gun strategy: no the one Chen is adopting. Far from it.

[kids: don't read]
Santa doesn't exist
[kids:sorry]

EDIT: I had to go to Samy's website to actually measure the smartphone range.
It appears that the Galaxy and Note do have many declinations , color and sizes (total: 28).
I'm not sure yet these are year-to-year or past models.

You can probably interpret it like that, my wish list to Santa

But the reason why I see it like that, is pretty simple and was already given before:
Pretty much every manufacturer apart from Apple launches multiple phones a year (this year was an exception) in different price ranges.

As your research has shown, Samsung is probably the master of spamming the market, and it works incredibly well for them.
To have a phone in every segment of the market, guarantees you the maximal possible market exposure.

The high-end devices help the image, and make the lower-end devices more desirable, following the train of thought: a cheap phone from the manufacturer that makes the most successful high-end Android, will surely be good in its segment.
(oversimplified, but mostly true)

I understand that Chen didn't adopt the strategy, and I personally see that as a pretty big fail.
Since the low-end keyboard device and the touch only one, can share the exact same hardware, except for their screen and form, it's not like there is a huge wastw of ressources.
You much rather gain bettwr economies of scale.
The same applies for the high-end.

We could discuss if 6 devices are 1 too much, but I see 5 devices as the bare minimum, in year 1, of the production cycle.
In year 2, you can make the high-end devices midranged ones, and the low end devices, budget devices.
Like this you can tone down the refresh cycle to 3 phones a year.
But in the first year, I see 5 devices as a must, for a manufacturer that needs marketshare.

You can see the same thing with Nokia.
They release at least 3 phones a year.
Since BlackBerry also offers keyboard options, they should launch even more.

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

You can probably interpret it like that, my wish list to Santa

But the reason why I see it like that, is pretty simple and was already given before:
Pretty much every manufacturer apart from Apple launches multiple phones a year (this year was an exception) in different price ranges.

As your research has shown, Samsung is probably the master of spamming the market, and it works incredibly well for them.
To have a phone in every segment of the market, guarantees you the maximal possible market exposure.

The high-end devices help the image, and make the lower-end devices more desirable, following the train of thought: a cheap phone from the manufacturer that makes the most successful high-end Android, will surely be good in its segment.
(oversimplified, but mostly true)

I understand that Chen didn't adopt the strategy, and I personally see that as a pretty big fail.
Since the low-end keyboard device and the touch only one, can share the exact same hardware, except for their screen and form, it's not like there is a huge wastw of ressources.
You much rather gain bettwr economies of scale.
The same applies for the high-end.

We could discuss if 6 devices are 1 too much, but I see 5 devices as the bare minimum, in year 1, of the production cycle.
In year 2, you can make the high-end devices midranged ones, and the low end devices, budget devices.
Like this you can tone down the refresh cycle to 3 phones a year.
But in the first year, I see 5 devices as a must, for a manufacturer that needs marketshare.

You can see the same thing with Nokia.
They release at least 3 phones a year.
Since BlackBerry also offers keyboard options, they should launch even more.

Posted via CB10

Ok armchair CEO, the problem behind your reasoning is simply that not every company is like Samsung. Samsung has an enormous economy of scale and benefits from great synergy effects in the supply chain. This is part of the reason why BlackBerry ditched parts of their production lines and made a deal with Foxconn. BlackBerry currently undertakes a major transition and you, as a big company, can't just go out there and transit from the former BlackBerry hardware strategy to that of Samsung over night.

What BlackBerry has to do right now is getting their $hit together and place a strategy for returning back to profitability, and the hardware business accounts for only one fourth of the new strategy. BlackBerry isn't just a hardware company anymore and before BlackBerry is going to spam markets with any kinds of devices at all, they better sort out the under-the-hood-strategy behind and beside this first. How ridiculous is it that you, some random CB commenter, declares a strategy placed by someone like John Chen and the trackrecord he has, as "a big fail". You have no idea how hard it is to 'gain better economies of scale', how long it takes and if it is even possible in the first place.

Posted via CB10

[Fnen90]

People will never buy a BlackBerry if they hear that Instagram or iGrann or whatever will not be in BlackBerry!!! Apps is what PPL want! Believe it or not it is like that.

[Nick Spagnolo]

If they want to keep costs down and create a market for themselves, just a few options for handsets help keep the flow and create a small market for themselves.

Posted via CB10

[Superfly_FR]

You can probably interpret it like that, my wish list to Santa

Read me good, I believe mine is even longer than yours.
But as I said, no Santa ... only financial and operational constraints.

Also, as you named Nokia ... this choice didn't seem to be very successful as of date.
Maybe # of models is not the (only) key ?

Phone sales at Nokia were 5 per cent down in Q4 compared to the previous quarter of 2013, placing a question mark over the wisdom of Microsoft’s impending purchase of the Finnish manufacturer’s handset division.

Drop in sales of Nokia’s Lumia phones sends shares plungingGoMo News

[mkmilan]

I still love my 9900, with fond memories of my 9810. BB10 just doesn't do it for me, so I got a Samsung slider that, amazingly, officialy updated to Jelly Bean, and, yes, the keyboard is NOT the 9900 experience, but the usability/funtionality factor for me is slowly morphing me into a Droid user. Sigh. IF, however, in the future, BB manages to match my needs, I will return. In the meantime, though I use the 9900 and Samsung side by side, the 9900 gets in my hands less and less frequently. SIGH!
PS, my Playbook is long gone, in its place a Samsung Galaxy Note 8, which made me try the Android phone.

[MarsupilamiX]

Ok armchair CEO, the problem behind your reasoning is simply that not every company is like Samsung. Samsung has an enormous economy of scale and benefits from great synergy effects in the supply chain. This is part of the reason why BlackBerry ditched parts of their production lines and made a deal with Foxconn. BlackBerry currently undertakes a major transition and you, as a big company, can't just go out there and transit from the former BlackBerry hardware strategy to that of Samsung over night.

What BlackBerry has to do right now is getting their $hit together and place a strategy for returning back to profitability, and the hardware business accounts for only one fourth of the new strategy. BlackBerry isn't just a hardware company anymore and before BlackBerry is going to spam markets with any kinds of devices at all, they better sort out the under-the-hood-strategy behind and beside this first. How ridiculous is it that you, some random CB commenter, declares a strategy placed by someone like John Chen and the trackrecord he has, as "a big fail". You have no idea how hard it is to 'gain better economies of scale', how long it takes and if it is even possible in the first place.

Posted via CB10

I have a Bachelor in international management and will soon get my master.
The work I do, is called market analysis.
And I am actually paid to do what I write about, in my free time.
Comparing strategies and understanding them, is one of the things I do while I am at work.

You can see me as an armchair CEO as much as you want, but I am not talking about these things, because I have no idea idea what I am talking about.
I also never said that BlackBerry should operate exactly like Samsung.
What I did say, is that Nokia and Samsung have more success because they cater to different segments.
Something that BlackBerry still doesn't understand well.
Nokia has phones from 70$ to 700$, and that's how you build marketshare.
Not with an obscenely priced Q5, or a Z30 that is a midrange phone but sells for 600$.

Where I do agree, is that BlackBerry has to get its ish together, definitely.
But they move very slowly, even though Chen is there.
Or rather, Chen is here, be caused they moved so slowly in the past.
As a whole, I didn't say that the CEO's strategy is a fail. I meant that only in the context of getting new phones out, because the Z30 looks already old, compared to a Sony Z1/LG G2, etc.

It's also pretty funny, that I foresaw the move to BES in the cloud.
Here, that's a thread I created shortly after I joined last year:
http://forums.crackberry.com/bbry-f3...lutions-794697

Read me good, I believe mine is even longer than yours.
But as I said, no Santa ... only financial and operational constraints.

Also, as you named Nokia ... this choice didn't seem to be very successful as of date.
Maybe # of models is not the (only) key ?

Drop in sales of Nokia�s Lumia phones sends shares plungingGoMo News

I rather think that Nokia suffers immensely from the number of cheap Android smartphones that have hit the market.
They also took some time to bring out new flagship devices, which might have driven consumers to buy alternative devices.

A problem that BlackBerry may share with them in the coming months.
But we'll see that anyway.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Hi
2) The new Samsung's that are being released have a lot of hardware that is virtually useless to us as human beings because of limitations of the human body. For example: Humans can't noticed the different between 326 ppi and 441ppi. So if someone says they can, they are full of **it.
3) The Extra pixels are their for nothing and using more cpu and gpu power which in turn causes the battery life to be god awful on most devices. Even if they put in bigger batteries its still awful battery life.

Yeah, and then you waked up...
" There are in fact lots of people with much better than 20/20 Vision, and for most people visual acuity is limited by blurring from the lens in the eye. The best human vision is about 20/10 Vision, twice as good as 20/20 Vision, and that is what corresponds to the acuity of the Retina. So to be a ?True Retina Display? a screen needs about 652 ppi at 10.5 inches, or 572 ppi at 12 inches."
http://www.displaymate.com/iPhone_4_ShootOut.htm

Or in other words, I can see the difference and a lot of other people can as well.
Not even talking about the <300 ppi, pentile amoled display of the Z30.
I instantly saw that it's worse than a Samsung S4 or my Z10.

Your point 3, is another joke.
Go out there, read some reviews, and you'll see that every newer Android flagship easily makes it through a day (my Z10 dies after 4-6 hours on one charge).
Some like the Note 3, can handle 2 days.

5) Apple's knows this to an extent and the reason why they call there screen "Retina Display" Although Apple takes it to a whole new level with subpar build quality and re-naming old parts to make it seem new. For example: The camera is now called an "ISight" camera, but the hardware did not change or improve that much.

The iPhone has such a subpar display, camera, build quality and customer service.
It has an awful ecosystem and no apps.

You totally got it man.
Thanks for telling us the truth about the iPhone, we may have never understood it, if you wouldn't have enlightened us.
So yeah, you might want to follow your own advice:
Inform yourself, instead of spreading false informations.

Posted via CB10

[The Big Picture]

Apple is set the introduce 2-3 iphones a year now that there are strong rumors they will be introducing larger screened iphone. Before the recent iphone 5C there way only 1 iphone updated on a yearly basis.

Google has motorola and nexus phones. Still too early to predict motorola's roll out plans but nexus's tend to renew itself on a yearly basis as well.

If anything I think blackberry needs only 2 max new 3 phones a year. Not 6.

1 lowend touch device. 1 highend touch and 1 highend qwerty.

The previous year's highend phones (in this year example would be the Q10 and Z30) will then slot into the mid range.

Z30, Q10, Z10, iP5, SGS3

[cbvinh]

What I did say, is that Nokia and Samsung have more success because they cater to different segments.

Someone could equally cite Apple as a company that /doesn't/ cater to a ton of segments and has done /extremely/ well.

Something that BlackBerry still doesn't understand well.
Nokia has phones from 70$ to 700$, and that's how you build marketshare.
Not with an obscenely priced Q5, or a Z30 that is a midrange phone but sells for 600$.

Foxconn deal to build cheap BB10 phones says differently.

I rather think that Nokia suffers immensely from the number of cheap Android smartphones that have hit the market.
They also took some time to bring out new flagship devices, which might have driven consumers to buy alternative devices.

A few posts ago, you said that low-end Android devices didn't affect Windows Phone and that they were successful.

Either way, Nokia is out of the hardware business. They were that successful; they didn't need to do it anymore.

[Superfly_FR]

Should I remain everybody to stay civil before the police ?
Ok so far, but border line; have a drink and step back a minute, we're talking about ... devices !