02-26-16 09:45 PM
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  1. hbelkin's Avatar
    Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere...

    This Technology Could Send BlackBerry Ltd (BBRY) Stock Soaring

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR and brian4591 like this.
    02-25-16 10:38 AM
  2. Uzi's Avatar
    Interesting read thanks
    02-25-16 10:43 AM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    Makes sense. They are moving to being a software company.
    02-25-16 10:56 AM
  4. zocster's Avatar
    updated the title a little OP, what's your opinion? In my opinion, it could if they play their cards right.
    02-25-16 11:18 AM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    If anything "saves" BlackBerry.... it will be Good.

    QNX just doesn't operate on the scale that BlackBerry needs. Even if they are dominant in Auto, and even if they are used by lots of other companies.... embedded software isn't a huge revenue generator for a company the size of BlackBerry.

    I bet QNX is a very profitable division, I imagine it is growing and has great potential for future growth.... but we are talking 100's of million a year, not billions.
    JeepBB, techvisor and brian4591 like this.
    02-25-16 11:47 AM
  6. shakingthrough's Avatar
    Love to read news like this, thanks for sharing.

    Posted via CB10
    gugomat likes this.
    02-25-16 01:51 PM
  7. Alain_A's Avatar
    If anything "saves" BlackBerry.... it will be Good.
    why? you still lose qnx os 10 in phones..
    02-25-16 01:54 PM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    why? you still lose qnx os 10 in phones..
    That's pretty much a given at this point..... We are talking about BlackBerry the company being saved, not BlackBerry the hardware.

    I do wonder, what would have happened if QNX had been in charge of building BB10 over whom ever BlackBerry placed in charge.
    techvisor likes this.
    02-25-16 02:24 PM
  9. Alain_A's Avatar
    We are talking about BlackBerry the company being saved
    for a lot of people qnx is related to phone first. So, no phone no qnx
    02-25-16 02:56 PM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    for a lot of people qnx is related to phone first. So, no phone no qnx
    No phone.... QNX will be just fine. But yes it's pretty much only BlackBerry users that even know who QNX is to begin with. As with most components in a car, no one knows or cares who made the behind the scenes stuff. QNX is not a consumer facing manufacture, their software is usually under other UIs or it runs on commercial hardware.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-25-16 03:17 PM
  11. John Vieira's Avatar
    It might save the company, but it will not (and should not) save the brand.

    I also don't think it will save hardware.

    Posted via -sigh- Priv. Guess we have to get used to Android guys....
    02-25-16 03:18 PM
  12. Alain_A's Avatar
    Guess we have to get used to Android guys....
    no, We don't...
    02-25-16 03:35 PM
  13. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    If anything "saves" BlackBerry.... it will be Good.

    QNX just doesn't operate on the scale that BlackBerry needs. Even if they are dominant in Auto, and even if they are used by lots of other companies.... embedded software isn't a huge revenue generator for a company the size of BlackBerry.
    Selling handsets with third-party app stores is not exactly a recipe for success either. Getting QNX in millions of autos would certainly be a winner for BlackBerry.
    02-25-16 04:53 PM
  14. early2bed's Avatar
    no, We don't...
    Exactly. You can't lose with iOS. Plus, it isn't as fragmented as Android. If you want to integrate your smartphone with your QNX dash unit, iOS always works with CarPlay while Android Auto is hit or miss depending on the device (i.e. Priv).
    TgeekB, Alain_A and JeepBB like this.
    02-25-16 05:17 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Selling handsets with third-party app stores is not exactly a recipe for success either. Getting QNX in millions of autos would certainly be a winner for BlackBerry.
    How much money does QNX get per CAR..... $500, $100, $1? There is a reason the QNX is already in millions of cars, yet their revenues are so low. What QNX needs is to move into other markets, or to slowly change they current licensing scheme to allow for more revenues - without getting too greedy and opening the door to other car systems.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-26-16 07:52 AM
  16. JeepBB's Avatar
    No, neither IoT nor QNX will save BlackBerry.

    As several posters above have stated, QNX is a commodity product that doesn't earn big money, and never will. It currently earns BB a few hundred million a year, and QNX is in most (IIRC) vehicles already, so where's the growth to come from? If it was a money-spinner, it would be already.

    As to IoT, yes, there's definitely money to be made from IoT for those agile companies able to innovate and execute on the opportunities they discover. As agility, innovation, and the proven ability to execute are traits attributed to BlackBerry by no-one, ever ... *none* of those IoT riches will come BB's way!

    TL, DR; No.
    02-26-16 10:58 AM
  17. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    I think a few of you miss the point, companies make these purchases not only for the revenue. But more for the assets the company holds. Software/ engineering/customer base. BB has been headed into a software company for a very long time. What they have stated is, the software side helps support the handset/hardware side. Many companies take this approach. HP is the biggest. Service and ink is were the real cash is, the hardware side just breaks even and at times runs in the red.

    Woof!
    02-26-16 01:29 PM
  18. JeepBB's Avatar
    Service and ink is were the real cash is, the hardware side just breaks even and at times runs in the red.
    For BB, the Hardware side is soooooooooooooooooooooo red, that it hurts the eyes to look at it!

    It's been continually in the red for the past several quarters, and Chen is on record as saying 1) that he needs Hardware to be profitable to keep it; and 2) that the break-even profitability point for Hardware is to sell 5M devices/year.

    He's also on record as saying that he'll look at Hardware's viability within this year.

    Unless 1st April's ER shows that phone sales are making a sizeable dent in that 5M figure (IMO that means quarterly sales well north of 1.5M, maybe even 2M, not x00,000), then Hardware is done, just as BB10 is done. There won't be an announcement to that effect, because that would be counter-productive, sabotage any likelihood of further sales, and leave somebody (though maybe not BB) with unsold inventory. But, announcement or not, Hardware will be done.

    So, still "No".
    02-26-16 01:46 PM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Unless 1st April's ER shows that phone sales are making a sizeable dent in that 5M figure (IMO that means quarterly sales well north of 1.5M, maybe even 2M, not x00,000), then Hardware is done, just as BB10 is done. There won't be an announcement to that effect, because that would be counter-productive, sabotage any likelihood of further sales, and leave somebody (though maybe not BB) with unsold inventory. But, announcement or not, Hardware will be done.

    So, still "No".
    There is a difference in what hardware cost if you are building and developing for the future, and it you are just selling phones for as long as you can.

    If the PRIV doesn't reach his goals... he'll just cut cost, and development. But I imagine that we will see hardware sales go on for as long as he can stretch them. Cause I think without the developmental cost added in he can make money on hardware. But even if it's only one million phones a year eventually... that's still a lot of revenue even if they are only making $100 per phone.

    BOT: What he needs with QNX is to be able to change the licensing deal so that QNX is on the cars and BlackBerry's NOC is handling the secure communications.... but what the chances are that will happen, I have no idea.
    02-26-16 02:32 PM
  20. JeepBB's Avatar
    There is a difference in what hardware cost if you are building and developing for the future, and it you are just selling phones for as long as you can.
    Yes, there is.

    The difference is 5M. Which represents the 10M device sales Chen needed with "doing it all" with BB10, and the 5M he needs just selling an Android phone.

    If the PRIV doesn't reach his goals... he'll just cut cost, and development. But I imagine that we will see hardware sales go on for as long as he can stretch them. Cause I think without the developmental cost added in he can make money on hardware. But even if it's only one million phones a year eventually... that's still a lot of revenue even if they are only making $100 per phone.
    Yes, the revenue is important to the ability to complete the transformation into a software company, and BB will indeed continue to sell devices for as long as people want to buy them and he has inventory. Chen has already determined that he can't make hardware profitable, even now the BB10 development costs are stripped out, unless BB sells 5M devices/year. Any fewer sales, and the hardware division continues as a drag-anchor on BB's overall profitability. Several posters have said that the 5M figure is just Chen throwing a number out there as a guide, and that hardware could continue on substantially lesser sales numbers (from the x00,000's of now up to 3M) - I don't think Chen just throws numbers out there I've always been impressed by his plain speaking. If he said he needs sales 5M devices/year for hardware to be viable... I believe him!

    BOT: What he needs with QNX is to be able to change the licensing deal so that QNX is on the cars and BlackBerry's NOC is handling the secure communications.... but what the chances are that will happen, I have no idea.
    The chances of that happening are zero.

    Imagine... you are Ford or GM: the company that provides the doo-hicky that you pay a few bucks for and which makes the radio and phone work, now says it wants all communications traffic to go via a big central communications hub that it maintains for its own profit. Ford & GM would go to another doo-hicky vendor (and there are alternatives to QNX) sooooo fast, that BB's head would spin.
    02-26-16 03:21 PM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    I think the sum of all the acquisitions BB is making should keep the company in business for a long time. I'm not sure how big or valuable BB will be, but I think they will be around with their growing collection of various small to med size businesses.

    I think QNX will continue to grow, but as others have said, that is a small business compared to handsets and things like that. I can't see car companies ever agreeing to recurring service fees unless they can pass that cost through to customers directly, in which case I think few customers will want to pay yet another annual or monthly fee for their cars.

    So far the IoT business seems to be nothing more than selling the Neutrino kernel, which they've been selling for years already. I don't see anything new there yet, and I doubt they can keep up with companies like Amazon in real IoT services at scale.

    People talk about the BB NOC, but what is the state of that NOC? At its peak it probably handled a tiny fraction of the traffic we would expect from the modern IoT world. How much has BB invested these past few years in modernizing and growing the NOC? How much of it is 10-20 years old at this point?

    I don't see them keeping up with the pack on IoT. I do see QNX being a solid, if not very large, business. And I definitely see the acquisitions taken as a whole keeping the company alive for quite some time.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-26-16 03:56 PM
  22. bspence87's Avatar
    Chen has already determined that he can't make hardware profitable, even now the BB10 development costs are stripped out, unless BB sells 5M devices/year. Any fewer sales, and the hardware division continues as a drag-anchor on BB's overall profitability. Several posters have said that the 5M figure is just Chen throwing a number out there as a guide, and that hardware could continue on substantially lesser sales numbers (from the x00,000's of now up to 3M) - I don't think Chen just throws numbers out there I've always been impressed by his plain speaking. If he said he needs sales 5M devices/year for hardware to be viable... I believe him!
    Lol. Yes, at 4,999,999 phones, they're losing money. It's that lucky number 5,000,000 that puts them over the edge, calculated down to the cent. That's what Chen does with his time; calculate nice, even, round numbers to give to the media, and run his business based on that number.

    The number of the phone sales needed is a variable, based on development costs, production costs and the profitability of each individual sale. If they sell 5million Privs, they'll be very profitable. 5 million Viennas, not so much.

    Ford & GM would go to another doo-hicky vendor (and there are alternatives to QNX) sooooo fast, that BB's head would spin.
    Oh, there are? Please name a few.
    You obviously have either not been keeping up on BlackBerry's announcements or just fail to see the impact. They are developing a suite of add-ons for every division of their software portfolio.
    Does Google make money off of Android licensing? Do they make $billions off of app sales, targeted ads and web-hosting as a result of Android?

    BlackBerry doesn't need "saving". Cut out hardware and BlackBerry is very profitable at this very moment. They're giving hardware a chance because they think they can make it profitable.
    abwan11 likes this.
    02-26-16 04:12 PM
  23. abwan11's Avatar
    You guys should have your own personal site hardware is dead .com . OR 1800 HARD WARE

    Where every thread gets derailed with the hardware issue.

    All conversation leads to: HARDWARE IS DEAD.

    Chen bought a company: hardware is dead.
    I like the priv: hardware is dead.
    Lost your dog: Don't worry, hardware is dead.






    Posted via CB10
    02-26-16 05:13 PM
  24. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I bet QNX is a very profitable division, I imagine it is growing and has great potential for future growth.... but we are talking 100's of million a year, not billions.
    Pretty much agree.
    In the mid term, this will add and contribute to profitability but also reinforce the brand in its position of "critical operations operator".
    Crisis management is a very profitable segment and having a low level layer such as QNX is certainly a pretty big advantage on competitors.
    Interestingly enough, this is where the "fish and the rabbit" can meet, because it's an underlying component that no one has to advertise when used, so that even direct BlackBerry competitors can take advantage of it (the tune sounds familiar ? re: BES).

    In the long term, if it can sustain its current dominant position and if we consider the crazy/scary/unbelievable pace of growth of "anything connected" segment, this could be a gold mine or more accurately, a diamond mine. MSFT makes a $billion per year with android royalties, I wonder how much this neutrino technology can bring once deployed on hundreds - soon thousand - of millions objects. Probably, a lot.
    brian4591 likes this.
    02-26-16 05:29 PM
  25. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    [info]
    And yes, please stay on topic for this interesting thread ... please.
    There are zillions of threads dealing with the device business.

    P.S: unless you want to discuss QNX powered devices, outside the smarphone area, of course.
    [/info]

    PantherBlitz likes this.
    02-26-16 05:34 PM
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