1. NG888's Avatar
    Just a thought, if the app gap is big on BB, and the general masses don't want to side load, download APK etc........

    Why not enable Google Play to BB10, and drop BlackBerry world. Both Google and BlackBerry benefit, work out some revenue share.

    Improve android runtime and off we go.(I'm not technical so assume this is possible)

    I understand that a lot of developers have developed grt native apps, but every mobile sales person I talk to now, when buying a BlackBerry tells me, now you can download android apps, which seems to be a big plus over and above features of OS10 .

    Just an idea, no offense intended to any developers.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 03:44 AM
  2. NG888's Avatar
    Maybe even create a blackberry edition of Google Play, call it Blackberry Play....



    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 03:50 AM
  3. badiyee's Avatar
    Novel idea, but Google needs to access everything that you do. That's how they sell your information to advertisers.

    When a forked version of Android came around by the name of Xiaomi many people praised the aesthetics of the phone, but every single one version had a glaring fault. That it needed gapps, and Google was not going to allow them (technically, but gapps is always installable later). On Xiaomi devices.

    Second precedent, the Amazon Kindle models that utilised the forked Android model. Clearly Google isn't happy.

    How do you suggest Google to be happy without even hurting BlackBerry services? If you can figure that out, and it actually works, the entire community can be happy for those who want gapps to work.

    Posted via CB on BB10
    04-04-14 04:16 AM
  4. rthonpm's Avatar
    How about no. In order to access Google Play services OEM's have to meet the standards Google sets for Android, since BlackBerry is not using Android outside of a compatibility layer why should they have to meet Google's standards?
    Also, does that mean that BlackBerry loses out on the revenue from app sales? Would you also only want to use non-native apps and miss out on the richer features that Cascades offers with native apps?



    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 05:39 AM
  5. leejayh's Avatar
    I think there will be an increasing push from Google to make Android apps reliant and only work with Google Play services, hence cutting off the rest of the other ecosystems. The Nokia, Amazon and BlackBerry phones that want to run Android apps.

    If developers are slick, they will find away for their Apps to still work, even if Google Play Services are not present. But I am sure that Google is working harder and harder to make it difficult. Like ads, in app purchases, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 05:49 AM
  6. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    As others have noted, there are certain requirements that must be met in order to qualify for access to Google Play. Having the runtime definitely does not meet the requirements. They would have to become a full on, Google compliant, Android device. An alternative to this would be BlackBerry building their own APK specific store (like Amazon), or having a section devoted to APKs in BB World.
    04-04-14 09:19 AM
  7. spikesolie's Avatar
    NO! Once you drop BlackBerry World, that means you are done. Never ever getting native apps anymore and if something is updated on android, and apps stop working, BlackBerry would be screwed.

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    Clanked and rthonpm like this.
    04-04-14 09:29 AM
  8. anon(4216152)'s Avatar
    The underlying question is that many Android apps do work, e.g. Netflix. Some do need Google services, but not all of them require these services, e.g. Candy Crush.

    Why, if many Android apps work on bb10, can't we find more popular android apps in BlackBerry World?

    My guess is that developers have little trust in BlackBerry (or BB10). I do realize that disinterest in a small platform may also play a role, but the extra effort to make an APK available to BlackBerry World is very small.

    So BlackBerry should promote to developers what bb10 is capable of. In addition, BlackBerry should develop their own alternatives for Google services required by many popular apps. Calls to these services should be caught and replaced with their own native services. BlackBerry should show that android apps work as good on bb10 as on android to convince the big developers to make their APK avaliable in BlackBerry World. It's the their best chance to finally win over the big developers.

    Have a nice day
    04-04-14 01:06 PM
  9. spikesolie's Avatar
    The underlying question is that many Android apps do work, e.g. Netflix. Some do need Google services, but not all of them require these services, e.g. Candy Crush.

    Why, if many Android apps work on bb10, can't we find more popular android apps in BlackBerry World?

    My guess is that developers have little trust in BlackBerry (or BB10). I do realize that disinterest in a small platform may also play a role, but the extra effort to make an APK available to BlackBerry World is very small.

    So BlackBerry should promote to developers what bb10 is capable of. In addition, BlackBerry should develop their own alternatives for Google services required by many popular apps. Calls to these services should be caught and replaced with their own native services. BlackBerry should show that android apps work as good on bb10 as on android to convince the big developers to make their APK avaliable in BlackBerry World. It's the their best chance to finally win over the big developers.

    Have a nice day
    This makes more sense

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    04-04-14 01:17 PM
  10. GriffNo1's Avatar
    Many android apps work. But many work poorly or lag on the z10.

    Not sure if it's due to the hardware or does it just need improved runtime???


    Sent from my iPad using CB Forums
    04-04-14 01:28 PM
  11. ubizmo's Avatar
    Why, if many Android apps work on bb10, can't we find more popular android apps in BlackBerry World?

    My guess is that developers have little trust in BlackBerry (or BB10). I do realize that disinterest in a small platform may also play a role, but the extra effort to make an APK available to BlackBerry World is very small.
    My guess is that, although the effort to put some Android apps in BB World is negligible, the developers of those apps don't want to have to support the apps after they're there.

    An obvious example is the Audible e-book app. It works perfectly sideloaded on BB10. I imagine it can be installed now via Snap or the Amazon app store (I don't have a BB10 device to test this claim on). So why not just list it in BB World? I don't know the official answer but the only thing that makes sense to me is that they don't want to be responsible for handling support calls if and when the BB10 Android runtime produces unexpected behavior.
    04-04-14 02:40 PM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    So BlackBerry should promote to developers what bb10 is capable of.
    BB has been doing that since a year before BB10s launch. Most developers have replied with the same thing, a version of the line from Jerry McGuire: "show me the marketshare." For a developer, their time is limited and must be spent wherever it gives them the greatest return. Every hour they spend supporting a version of their app on BB World is an hour they can't support their app on Google Play or the iOS Play Store, either of which will make them a LOT more money for that hour's worth of work, and that's a simple matter of BB's tiny userbase.

    And, yes, it absolutely DOES take time to support a BB10 version of an Android app - every time the dev releases a new version, it would need to be tested on BB10 on several devices (due to the wonky 1:1 ratio screens on the Q's), converted to a BAR, and re-uploaded. Then, the dev would have to provide end-user support for BB10 too. Most devs won't even make a version of their app for the Amazon Market, which is native Android, because of the extra time and support hassle it requires, and Amazon's userbase is many multiples of BB's.

    Many people assume that a developer's work is all "initial app development", when MOST of the work happens after the initial release: constant upgrades, new features, UI changes, bug fixes, testing, and end-user support. Any developer can confirm this, and that's why BB World is missing a lot of apps that DO work with a simple BAR conversion, much less ones that would take considerable work to make functional on BB10.

    In addition, BlackBerry should develop their own alternatives for Google services required by many popular apps. Calls to these services should be caught and replaced with their own native services.
    That's exactly what BB has done, to the extend that it could, with the BB Runtime. But more and more devs are using the ever-improving Google Services Framework in their apps, because it allows many powerful, useful features to be easily added. And those can't just simply be replaced, and it certainly couldn't be done by BB - Google would sue them and win.

    App devs are free to modify/re-write their apps to work on BB World, but BB ripping out GSF out of apps and replacing them is a whole other ballgame legally.
    04-04-14 02:45 PM
  13. cgk's Avatar
    There are all sorts of terms of conditions to get google play store - one of the newer ones is "Powered by Android" on the boot screen - I guess everyone is looking forward to that on their BB...
    04-04-14 02:45 PM
  14. anon(4216152)'s Avatar
    There are all sorts of terms of conditions to get google play store - one of the newer ones is "Powered by Android" on the boot screen - I guess everyone is looking forward to that on their BB...
    I guess many here, like me, wouldn't mind. However, I agree with Troy's suggestion that support is (especially by the big developers) a problem. I guess with the different versions of Android and the crazy amount of phones developers have enough problems without BB10 support. So even if Google would allow a formal access to their services, BlackBerry still doesn't have the apps, because that is still up to the developers. They can only be attracted with perfect support by BlackBerry. I think BlackBerry pulled this off with some game developers, but not with banks, not with Netflix, not with Vine, and many other popular apps. It's time BlackBerry start winning them over one by one.

    Have a nice day
    04-04-14 03:58 PM
  15. cgk's Avatar
    I guess many here, like me, wouldn't mind.

    Ah... but that's just the start of it, you then also agree to things like where apps are placed, what apps have to be on the front screen, how certain APIs are used, how users information is shared with google etc etc.
    rthonpm likes this.
    04-04-14 04:01 PM
  16. spikesolie's Avatar
    Ah... but that's just the start of it, you then also agree to things like where apps are placed, what apps have to be on the front screen, how certain APIs are used, how users information is shared with google etc etc.
    Yes thus

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    04-04-14 04:26 PM
  17. spikesolie's Avatar
    I guess many here, like me, wouldn't mind. However, I agree with Troy's suggestion that support is (especially by the big developers) a problem. I guess with the different versions of Android and the crazy amount of phones developers have enough problems without BB10 support. So even if Google would allow a formal access to their services, BlackBerry still doesn't have the apps, because that is still up to the developers. They can only be attracted with perfect support by BlackBerry. I think BlackBerry pulled this off with some game developers, but not with banks, not with Netflix, not with Vine, and many other popular apps. It's time BlackBerry start winning them over one by one.

    Have a nice day
    But it's not really powered by android

    From zee coolest flicking smartphone ever
    04-04-14 04:26 PM
  18. skibnik's Avatar
    BB has been doing that since a year before BB10s launch. Most developers have replied with the same thing, a version of the line from Jerry McGuire: "show me the marketshare." For a developer, their time is limited and must be spent wherever it gives them the greatest return. Every hour they spend supporting a version of their app on BB World is an hour they can't support their app on Google Play or the iOS Play Store, either of which will make them a LOT more money for that hour's worth of work, and that's a simple matter of BB's tiny userbase.

    And, yes, it absolutely DOES take time to support a BB10 version of an Android app - every time the dev releases a new version, it would need to be tested on BB10 on several devices (due to the wonky 1:1 ratio screens on the Q's), converted to a BAR, and re-uploaded. Then, the dev would have to provide end-user support for BB10 too. Most devs won't even make a version of their app for the Amazon Market, which is native Android, because of the extra time and support hassle it requires, and Amazon's userbase is many multiples of BB's.

    Many people assume that a developer's work is all "initial app development", when MOST of the work happens after the initial release: constant upgrades, new features, UI changes, bug fixes, testing, and end-user support. Any developer can confirm this, and that's why BB World is missing a lot of apps that DO work with a simple BAR conversion, much less ones that would take considerable work to make functional on BB10.



    That's exactly what BB has done, to the extend that it could, with the BB Runtime. But more and more devs are using the ever-improving Google Services Framework in their apps, because it allows many powerful, useful features to be easily added. And those can't just simply be replaced, and it certainly couldn't be done by BB - Google would sue them and win.

    App devs are free to modify/re-write their apps to work on BB World, but BB ripping out GSF out of apps and replacing them is a whole other ballgame legally.
    You make some good points but it doesn't explain the fact the BlackBerry has in the past offered to write and support native apps for some of the major missing apps (Netflix, Vine) and were refused by the respective devs. Still don't know the motives for this as the devs wouldn't have to spend time or money to support the apps just collect the royalties yet they black list BB10.

    Z30 and loving it!
    04-04-14 04:55 PM
  19. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    You make some good points but it doesn't explain the fact the BlackBerry has in the past offered to write and support native apps for some of the major missing apps (Netflix, Vine) and were refused by the respective devs. Still don't know the motives for this as the devs wouldn't have to spend time or money to support the apps just collect the royalties yet they black list BB10.
    For Netflix it's pretty simple: I'm sure their contracts with the studios requires NF to keep VERY tight control over the content, which may prohibit them from allowing outsiders access to their code, APIs, or security. No one is more paranoid about this stuff than the content providers.

    As for other companies, they simply don't have public APIs because they want to control the user experience of their apps, because they realize that their whole company reputation and perceived value may depend on it. Many of these companies are simply unwilling to entrust another company to write a quality app, or to have the same priorities for their app as they do.

    Think of it this way: let's say you owned a chain of Texas BBQ restaurants in the SouthWest, and built up a customer base that loved your own special blend of rubs, sauces, and smoking of your meats - that was where the value of your brand came from. Now, let's say you had a few customers up in Fargo, ND who loved your BBQ and wanted you to open a restaurant there, but the numbers were easily against that making sense for your company. Would you then allow a Fargo restaurant to have your secret formulas, to spread your "flavor" and brand to a remote area? What if that restaurant simply did a bad job, and ruined your reputation for everyone in the midwest? What if they wanted to change things to "better fit the area" and you wanted to maintain the integrity of your brand? And what happens when people from THERE complain to YOUR corporate HQ about the food, service, or whatever, that they received in Fargo?

    It simply isn't worth the risk and potential hassle, especially to please such a relatively small number of potential customers.
    04-04-14 06:02 PM
  20. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    For Netflix it's pretty simple: I'm sure their contracts with the studios requires NF to keep VERY tight control over the content, which may prohibit them from allowing outsiders access to their code, APIs, or security. No one is more paranoid about this stuff than the content providers.

    As for other companies, they simply don't have public APIs because they want to control the user experience of their apps, because they realize that their whole company reputation and perceived value may depend on it. Many of these companies are simply unwilling to entrust another company to write a quality app, or to have the same priorities for their app as they do.

    Think of it this way: let's say you owned a chain of Texas BBQ restaurants in the SouthWest, and built up a customer base that loved your own special blend of rubs, sauces, and smoking of your meats - that was where the value of your brand came from. Now, let's say you had a few customers up in Fargo, ND who loved your BBQ and wanted you to open a restaurant there, but the numbers were easily against that making sense for your company. Would you then allow a Fargo restaurant to have your secret formulas, to spread your "flavor" and brand to a remote area? What if that restaurant simply did a bad job, and ruined your reputation for everyone in the midwest? What if they wanted to change things to "better fit the area" and you wanted to maintain the integrity of your brand? And what happens when people from THERE complain to YOUR corporate HQ about the food, service, or whatever, that they received in Fargo?

    It simply isn't worth the risk and potential hassle, especially to please such a relatively small number of potential customers.
    All great points.

    Right now BB is lucky in the sense that not all Android Apps require GSF, so they can get away with APK's working for the most part. They have to hope that this can help them build some type of market share which would then entice devs to build native apps. A long shot at best, but it's really all they have right now.
    04-04-14 06:49 PM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    You make some good points but it doesn't explain the fact the BlackBerry has in the past offered to write and support native apps for some of the major missing apps (Netflix, Vine) and were refused by the respective devs. Still don't know the motives for this as the devs wouldn't have to spend time or money to support the apps just collect the royalties yet they black list BB10.
    BBRY "offering" to develop apps was one of the funniest red herrings ever. No high level developer would take that seriously.

    For Netflix, it was simple (in my book). They stated, quite astutely IMHO, that making a BB app would not net Netflix any new customers. Seen within the context of ROI and app ransoms, this makes complete sense.

    BBRY knows first hand that app development is but a tiny fraction of the cost of app costs; BBRY simply made that proclamation on Twitter to appease the faithful. But when one stops to consider the true costs of an app like Netflix (continued development year round, hosting fees, publishing fees, customer service round the clock, and more), one can easily see BBRY empty "offer." Netflix is saying that it does not want to incur more costs to create an app that won't gain more subscribers. Sound business.

    As Kevin noted a while back, app ransoms are a real thing, IMHO. These development houses know that BBRY needs it more than they need BBRY. I have no proof, but I doubt that Rovio made apps for BB0 because of BB10 love, and I highly doubt that sales on BBW have been worth Rovio's time investment.

    Somebody made it worth Rovio's while.

    Hindsight makes me revise my stance a little, but at the time, I did not blame at BBRY balking at what I believe was a high price from Netflix. money is tight, BBRY was already spending tons on the app ecosystem, and the runtime was coming. But don't believe for one second that the development offer was a serious business offer LOL.
    04-04-14 07:13 PM

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