04-05-14 05:42 PM
340 ... 678910 ...
tools
  1. karaya1's Avatar
    I think the belt is a good idea for the enterprise oriented device. I was faster at certain tasks using my 9900 or 9700 than my Q10 because of the belt. The majority of those tasks were more business oriented. I almost went back to my 9900 just because of the trackpad.

    I'll buy one and I think most Q users would too. Glad they have the focus on the big battery too.
    Find your niche and do it well. Good for them.


    Posted via CB10
    Plazmic Flame and RyanGermann like this.
    02-25-14 05:00 AM
  2. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Yikes, going backwards yet again. People need to work on there fingering skillz. STOP MAKING SO MANY DIFFERENT PHONES BB. So much wasted time and $$ on umpteen million variations of phones, pick 2 and spend your time on getting apps, and maybe you'll sell some devices. sheesh. It's so simple lol...
    OK, and if you then find out, after a year or so, that the phones that you made didin't sell? Continue trying to sell the same ones? That simple?
    RyanGermann likes this.
    02-25-14 05:10 AM
  3. akabbani's Avatar
    The fact that they're bringing back the trackpad + belt shows they don't want to innovate! This is a backwards A** step by BlackBerry and I'm extremely disappointed! CLEARLY people care more about screen size these days than how they navigate. Look at the touchscreen navigation of Android and iPhone in comparison to BB10 devices (touch or qwerty). SO much easier on a BB10, YET they decide to bring the belt back. This is definitely a step backwards in my opinion and for me, the device is DOA if it keeps the 1:1 ratio and is below 4inches. I currently have the Q10 and was looking forward to buying the "Q20/30" however not anymore! I guess Ill go for an all touch.
    coldRooster likes this.
    02-25-14 05:56 AM
  4. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    The fact that they're bringing back the trackpad + belt shows they don't want to innovate! This is a backwards A** step by BlackBerry and I'm extremely disappointed! CLEARLY people care more about screen size these days than how they navigate. Look at the touchscreen navigation of Android and iPhone in comparison to BB10 devices (touch or qwerty). SO much easier on a BB10, YET they decide to bring the belt back. This is definitely a step backwards in my opinion and for me, the device is DOA if it keeps the 1:1 ratio and is below 4inches. I currently have the Q10 and was looking forward to buying the "Q20/30" however not anymore! I guess Ill go for an all touch.
    People who care about screen size have not even bought the Z30, for the most part, no matter how good it is. They've gone to Android phablets. Why would most of them bother to switch to BB? The whole screen size thing was a peripheral issue for BB's core market.
    02-25-14 06:19 AM
  5. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    Where else are those 10 million users going to go?
    I still contend that if someone leaves BlackBerry because of the removal of the trackpad, they were leaving anyway. There are countless compelling reasons to stay if you are a true BlackBerry lover.
    This is simply surreal. A whole bunch of us (including Q10 owners) are actually here telling you that the departure from the BBOS user interface paradigm was *not* one of the selling points of the new phones. Some people have even (on the couple of threads running) even taken the time to list what has been lost from BBOS that people actually liked. The idea that there are users who might be even more sensitive and no longer see the specific advantage of BB because of the loss of that paradigm should *not* be far-fetched -- it follows immediately!

    Take a look at Microsoft's Start button. Microsoft has attempted to do the same thing as BB -- change the UI paradigm to force the user to conform to MS's business strategy. And the symbol of that was the missing Start button. This simple UI choice, which they walked back partly, may have done irreparable harm to MS's already-declining brand. (A brand that is still miles better than RIM/BB.)

    People take the wrong lessons from Apple's dominance. Apple is dominant because they built their base from the inside out. Please your core users, and they'll sell the device for you. The squawks of tech blogger web sites are trumped by customer loyalty. Those of you who are anti-trackpad need to think of what actually keeps the rest of the core user base interested. The fact that John Chen is even thinking about it gives him a much greater chance of success than Heins, who never appeared to have done so, except very grudgingly give a keyboard in the *second* device. While all the while being *embarassed* by the actual customer base!
    02-25-14 06:29 AM
  6. sigint99's Avatar
    Did any of you consider the possibility that perhaps many people just want a physical connection with their phones instead of typing, pinching and swiping on glass ? You know, those who want to actually get work done instead of farting around with obscure gestures ?
    02-25-14 06:32 AM
  7. coldRooster's Avatar
    [QUOTE=Eupathic Impulse;10050693]This is simply surreal. A whole bunch of us (including Q10 owners) are actually here telling you that the departure from the BBOS user interface paradigm was *not* one of the selling points of the new phones. Some people have even (on the couple of threads running) even taken the time to list what has been lost from BBOS that people actually liked. The idea that there are users who might be even more sensitive and no longer see the specific advantage of BB because of the loss of that paradigm should *not* be far-fetched -- it follows immediately!

    If people like, I'm assuming you, love the BBOS so much, then you have plenty of phones that have already been made for you. I guess the biggest thing that sucks for the people that moved on, is that MWC basically did not give us anything. No new Z10. No new Z30. Why is that? Because BlackBerry decided they need to enter emerging markets which I'm okay with, but also pass over all of us BlackBerry users that for used to bb10 so they could cater to all the people whining about how BB10 was not BBOS


    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    02-25-14 06:35 AM
  8. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    If people like, I'm assuming you, love the BBOS so much, then you have plenty of phones that have already been made for you. I guess the biggest thing that sucks for the people that moved on, is that MWC basically did not give us anything. No new Z10. No new Z30. Why is that? Because BlackBerry decided they need to enter emerging markets which I'm okay with, but also pass over all of us BlackBerry users that for used to bb10 so they could cater to all the people whining about how BB10 was not BBOS
    No this makes no sense. There aren't any new models of BBOS phones being made. The browser sucks and there are a lot of ways in which BBOS needs to catch up. It is MORE than likely that BBOS needed to be rebuilt from the ground up, the QNX is a good kernel choice, etc, etc. That doesn't mean the whole entire paradigm of the BBOS UI, the bits that people liked, needed to be thrown out completely to keep up with people who *actually* want an iPhone with a 7-bullet logo and the Hub. What they needed to make was a modern BBOS that could actually render HTML5 efficiently and correctly.
    02-25-14 06:41 AM
  9. coldRooster's Avatar
    No this makes no sense. There aren't any new models of BBOS phones being made. The browser sucks and there are a lot of ways in which BBOS needs to catch up. It is MORE than likely that BBOS needed to be rebuilt from the ground up, the QNX is a good kernel choice, etc, etc. That doesn't mean the whole entire paradigm of the BBOS UI, the bits that people liked, needed to be thrown out completely to keep up with people who *actually* want an iPhone with a 7-bullet logo and the Hub. What they needed to make was a modern BBOS that could actually render HTML5 efficiently and correctly.
    I'm not talking OS I'm talking hardware. 90% of what BBOS users complain about is lack of the belt. BBOS is outdated and BlackBerry should committ to BB10. If people love BBOS, they have plenty of phones with it on there.

    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    02-25-14 06:44 AM
  10. coldRooster's Avatar
    No this makes no sense. There aren't any new models of BBOS phones being made. The browser sucks and there are a lot of ways in which BBOS needs to catch up. It is MORE than likely that BBOS needed to be rebuilt from the ground up, the QNX is a good kernel choice, etc, etc. That doesn't mean the whole entire paradigm of the BBOS UI, the bits that people liked, needed to be thrown out completely to keep up with people who *actually* want an iPhone with a 7-bullet logo and the Hub. What they needed to make was a modern BBOS that could actually render HTML5 efficiently and correctly.
    Also, you sound like an iFan. "Oh you're phone is a rectangle? It must have taken from the iPhone.".

    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    02-25-14 06:46 AM
  11. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    I'm not talking OS I'm talking hardware. 90% of what BBOS users complain about is lack of the belt. BBOS is outdated and BlackBerry should committ to BB10. If people love BBOS, they have plenty of phones with it on there.

    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    And you missed my point. There are no NEW phones that use the BBOS UI paradigm for both hardware and software, which are an integrated, single package. The whole package no longer exists on modern hardware. You can buy old phones with it. What very many BB users want is the whole BBOS+legacy BB UI concept, but with a lot more modern doodads, rather than a total abolition of the BBOS/Bold hardware paradigm, the most successful combo yet for BB.
    02-25-14 06:49 AM
  12. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    Also, you sound like an iFan. "Oh you're phone is a rectangle? It must have taken from the iPhone.".
    And you know what? The smug iFan is actually perfectly right about that. A rectangular glass slab, be it an Android phone, be it a Windows Phone, be it a Z10, is at heart an imitation iPhone. At some level, at least. Android is a tinkerable iOS (and I have an Android tablet) at root, with a more hapazard Linuxy attitude. Windows Phone is MSs wannabe attempt at drawing iFans (and second-tier iFans known as Android fans) back to the Windows Empire. BB10, particularly the Z10, is BB ignoring Aesop's fable of the the Man, the Boy, and the Donkey.

    The Man, the Boy, and the Donkey. Aesop. 1909-14. Fables. The Harvard Classics
    02-25-14 06:53 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    No this makes no sense. There aren't any new models of BBOS phones being made. The browser sucks and there are a lot of ways in which BBOS needs to catch up. It is MORE than likely that BBOS needed to be rebuilt from the ground up, the QNX is a good kernel choice, etc, etc. That doesn't mean the whole entire paradigm of the BBOS UI, the bits that people liked, needed to be thrown out completely to keep up with people who *actually* want an iPhone with a 7-bullet logo and the Hub. What they needed to make was a modern BBOS that could actually render HTML5 efficiently and correctly.
    The fact is that BB10 software continues to evolve - many of the "old" features are returning and many new features are being added. This is a separate stream - it's happening anyway.

    What we are talking about here is the one move of adding back a belt. That's it.

    Are you telling me that this one and only feature will keep someone from moving to Android or iOS? And nothing else about the new, evolving BB10 platform would be reason enough to stay for a true BlackBerry user?

    Maybe you're right, but that doesn't sit well with me.

    Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 06:54 AM
  14. coldRooster's Avatar
    And you missed my point. There are no NEW phones that use the BBOS UI paradigm for both hardware and software, which are an integrated, single package. The whole package no longer exists on modern hardware. You can buy old phones with it. What very many BB users want is the whole BBOS+legacy BB UI concept, but with a lot more modern doodads, rather than a total abolition of the BBOS/Bold hardware paradigm, the most successful combo yet for BB.
    And you are missing my point. I'm aware that there are no new phones with that. There do not need to be. You already have plenty of them. If you want modern doodads. Get a Z30. Make the adjustment. To BB10. Otherwise, people like you need to stop complaining about it. This is why BlackBerry has chosen to step backwards. So they can drag people like you to BlackBerry 10.

    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    02-25-14 07:06 AM
  15. coldRooster's Avatar
    And you know what? The smug iFan is actually perfectly right about that. A rectangular glass slab, be it an Android phone, be it a Windows Phone, be it a Z10, is at heart an imitation iPhone. At some level, at least. Android is a tinkerable iOS (and I have an Android tablet) at root, with a more hapazard Linuxy attitude. Windows Phone is MSs wannabe attempt at drawing iFans (and second-tier iFans known as Android fans) back to the Windows Empire. BB10, particularly the Z10, is BB ignoring Aesop's fable of the the Man, the Boy, and the Donkey.

    The Man, the Boy, and the Donkey. Aesop. 1909-14. Fables. The Harvard Classics
    This is perhaps one of the dumbest statements ever. Calm down iSheep. Also. I find that fable ironic in terms of all you BBOS users complaining to the point where BlackBerry has had to step backwards to help you along. "Please all and you will please none"

    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    02-25-14 07:10 AM
  16. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    The fact is that BB10 software continues to evolve - many of the "old" features are returning and many new features are being added. This is a separate stream - it's happening anyway.

    What we are talking about here is the one move of adding back a belt. That's it.

    Are you telling me that this one and only feature will keep someone from moving to Android or iOS? And nothing else about the new, evolving BB10 platform would be reason enough to stay for a true BlackBerry user?

    Maybe you're right, but that doesn't sit well with me.

    Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141

    Posted via CB10
    The trackpad is actually a really useful feature for anyone who is a stickler for precision and who edits a lot of text. Some people seem to have gotten used to touchscreen editing, but for a LOT of people it just doesn't work. With no trackpad, there are now things that I wait to do at my desktop at work that I used to do on buses and trains. It's just like the keyboard. The Q10's keyboard is one of the major features that keeps a lot of people (me included) from wondering why we shouldn't move to an iPhone. The trackpad is that special icing on the cake. It's all about thresholds for changing.

    Most of the BB10s features are actually not THAT interesting, but some of them are nice. I like the Hub. I like the new stuff that came in 10.2.1, like the lock screen icons that give you a quick email header overview. But they aren't totally unique functionality, like a keyboard and trackpad. BB needs to ask itself what it brings to the table that people simply can't replicate with a couple more touchscreen taps on a Samsung Galaxy.
    02-25-14 07:19 AM
  17. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    And you are missing my point. I'm aware that there are no new phones with that. There do not need to be. You already have plenty of them. If you want modern doodads. Get a Z30. Make the adjustment. To BB10. Otherwise, people like you need to stop complaining about it. This is why BlackBerry has chosen to step backwards. So they can drag people like you to BlackBerry 10.
    I already have moved to BB10. I'm a Q10 owner. But unlike you apparently, I actually want to think seriously about why it is that a BBOS owner sticks with BBOS, or leaves when the differentiating features of BBOS aren't there.

    They ARE making the adjustment---by moving to iPhone, Android, etc, where they can at least play the games their brothers and sisters play.

    What business makes money by condescending to their customers? What a large (likely the majority) of legacy users wanted was not the Z30. It was a BB Bold with a much better browser and Netflix. That's what BB ought to have been focused on creating.
    02-25-14 07:24 AM
  18. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    Actually the "belt" is going to do the opposite, it will allow for larger qwerty display sizes (4+ inches). The "belt" will still allow for easy one hand operation. Don't rush to judgement until you see it implemented at the end of the year.
    This is the key thing, waiting to see it implemented. My fear is that, they will stick to the 1:1 ratio with the 3.5 inch screen which would be horrible in my opinion, plus with the "tool belt" underneath?! Yikes... What would be much better is a 3.5 inch rectangle screen with a 4:3 ratio like the Z10 & Z30, which would also be compatible with Z10/Z30 apps.
    02-25-14 07:24 AM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    This is perhaps one of the dumbest statements ever. Calm down iSheep. Also. I find that fable ironic in terms of all you BBOS users complaining to the point where BlackBerry has had to step backwards to help you along. "Please all and you will please none"

    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    Funny that, I thought companies have to build products that users like not the other way around.


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    02-25-14 07:25 AM
  20. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    This is perhaps one of the dumbest statements ever. Calm down iSheep. Also. I find that fable ironic in terms of all you BBOS users complaining to the point where BlackBerry has had to step backwards to help you along. "Please all and you will please none
    I am NOT a BBOS owner, I'm a Q10 owner, for the 11 hundredth time. BB hasn't had to "step backwards to help [us] along." If that's BB's attitude, they should just sell the company here and now. BB is moving forward---into a future where it turns out, to your apparent surprise and horror, some people like trackpads and call end buttons. Love your users, don't spit on them.
    02-25-14 07:26 AM
  21. coldRooster's Avatar
    I already have moved to BB10. I'm a Q10 owner. But unlike you apparently, I actually want to think seriously about why it is that a BBOS owner sticks with BBOS, or leaves when the differentiating features of BBOS aren't there.

    They ARE making the adjustment---by moving to iPhone, Android, etc, where they can at least play the games their brothers and sisters play.

    What business makes money by condescending to their customers? What a large (likely the majority) of legacy users wanted was not the Z30. It was a BB Bold with a much better browser and Netflix. That's what BB ought to have been focused on creating.

    I know plenty of BBOS users. I know why they stick with it. It's for business purposes. But guess what? They already have an android or iPhone for personal use. Some even have windows. They have already made that adjustment. BlackBerry is catering to a crowd that has already gone away or upgraded to bb10.

    Which is why this going backwards is stupid. And I'd don't know. Maybe the same business that has to feed them by hand because they either are to lazy or stupid or to stubborn to move to an upgraded OS.


    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    02-25-14 07:29 AM
  22. coldRooster's Avatar
    Funny that, I thought companies have to build products that users like not the other way around.


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    Wrong. Take a business class. Consumers determine most of a market. Consumers decide on the product and companies determine whether or not they can build it and if they can make it better.

    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    02-25-14 07:31 AM
  23. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    Which is why this going backwards is stupid. And I'd don't know. Maybe the same business that has to feed them by hand because they either are to lazy or stupid or to stubborn to move to an upgraded OS.
    Like I said, love your users. If you think your users are "lazy or stupid", get out of the business of making money. I'd like to mandate "smarter" users if I could -- although I don't think that touchscreens are the height of intelligence, why abolish a whole human sense from the palette of user experiences -- but BB has to make money and that money is not coming from the users who have already bought Android and iPhone and are waiting to get rid of their BBs. The market for BBs are the people who love BB phones.
    02-25-14 07:32 AM
  24. Eupathic Impulse's Avatar
    Wrong. Take a business class. Consumers determine most of a market. Consumers decide on the product and companies determine whether or not they can build it and if they can make it better.
    OMG "take a business class" has got to be the funniest advice on this thread yet!
    02-25-14 07:33 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    The trackpad is actually a really useful feature for anyone who is a stickler for precision and who edits a lot of text. Some people seem to have gotten used to touchscreen editing, but for a LOT of people it just doesn't work. With no trackpad, there are now things that I wait to do at my desktop at work that I used to do on buses and trains. It's just like the keyboard. The Q10's keyboard is one of the major features that keeps a lot of people (me included) from wondering why we shouldn't move to an iPhone. The trackpad is that special icing on the cake. It's all about thresholds for changing.

    Most of the BB10s features are actually not THAT interesting, but some of them are nice. I like the Hub. I like the new stuff that came in 10.2.1, like the lock screen icons that give you a quick email header overview. But they aren't totally unique functionality, like a keyboard and trackpad. BB needs to ask itself what it brings to the table that people simply can't replicate with a couple more touchscreen taps on a Samsung Galaxy.
    I totally respect what you're saying. I thought just like you. I was one of the lucky ones I suppose who was able to make the switch to BB10, and now generally find most tasks faster now than ever before on BBOS.

    Make no mistake, I too am a power user.

    You are saying a lot of things here though. You're talking about the OS, the physical keyboard, and the belt. I'm trying to focus on the belt only.

    To belt, or not to belt. With all else equal, will that one feature keep someone from going to another platform?

    I like Chen. He seems to be on your side, so you are in good company.

    I'm all for choice. Maybe with Foxconn he has not had to invest anything, and is essentially getting this for free. It will be a good, low risk, gauge to see if it flies.

    Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 07:35 AM
340 ... 678910 ...

Similar Threads

  1. The Trackpad is Coming Back! Q20
    By tomsobon in forum BlackBerry Classic
    Replies: 656
    Last Post: 08-15-14, 01:31 PM
  2. Why BlackBerry Should NOT Bring Back the Trackpad
    By coldRooster in forum Rehab & Off-Topic Lounge
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 02-26-14, 04:04 PM
  3. Hands-on with the Android-powered Nokia XL
    By Bla1ze in forum Android
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-24-14, 06:02 PM
  4. Newest BlackBerry 10 device could see the return of the trackpad and function keys
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion & Contests
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-24-14, 07:30 AM
  5. BBM Live Video Feed Channel ....on the move real time
    By BB10Funding in forum BlackBerry Q10
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-24-14, 04:52 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD