04-05-14 05:42 PM
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  1. BB_Junky's Avatar
    The irrational hate and alarmist assumptions that adding physical buttons to SOME or even just ONE new qwerty will change BB10 OS on all devices is disappointing (and almost embarrassing).

    I am a BlackBerry owner and Z10 daily user and do want a qwerty with a belt. I have learned that I prefer excellent communication tools over the larger screen. I really don't give a **** at all about "apps", social media, and whatnot.

    I would be more than happy with a Bold 9900 chassis with BB10 OS, 2GB RAM, 1.4GHz dual core ARM CPU, and 32GB of storage. Preferably with a camera that doesn't suck. BlackBerry 10OS has a much better Web browser than BBOS7 and really that's the only noticeable upgrade for my usage that I have found with this Z10, apart from the speed due to the better CPU. For everything else, I actually really don't like the Z10 very much (especially BMM/SMS/Email).

    The BB10 gestures are alright, but I am really quite shocked the flick up to close from the PlayBook is not on BB10. I find that where the BlackBerry button and app switch menu on OS4.5 to OS7 was 100% the first time I pressed the button, where as BB10 gestures can require several attempts to register, which is annoying. BB10 is not all cupcakes and sunshine...

    Anyhow, I don't understand why so many Crackberry users feel the need to berate and belittle the things that others value, simply because they do not value them. I personally don't like touch screen devices and auto correct, but I don't spend my days imploring others to "move on" other more advanced technologies. Who am I to judge? And who are you?

    What is most likely is that BlackBerry will continue to create Q10/Q5, Z10/Z30, and Bold/Curve style devices in tandem, because each hardware paradigm has value to BlackBerry users. I would not be surprised to see a modern day BlackBerry Pearl either, because innovation and functionality transcend the passage of time; 100 years later, cars still have rubber tires, because they work.

    Magnificently composed using CB10 on my BB Z10!
    It's that idealism that failed BBRY in the first place.... We don't need change...we don't need apps....we don't give a ^%*# about social media etc....


    Sent from my super secret shoe device using Tapatalk HD
    Shadowyugi and Fatboy40 like this.
    02-24-14 06:58 PM
  2. chiphazard's Avatar
    I absolutely do. There are 10s of millions of BB7 OS users that like their BB7 OS experience just fine and therefore put up with the compromises that staying on BB7 means (no apps, etc.) I also believe that lots would upgrade to a BB10 device if it was more like BB7 in certain ways.

    Your objection seems to be solely related to the fact that marketing hasn't got the word out on BB10 properly... that the BB10 devices exactly as they are would sell like gangbusters if only there was more consumer awareness. That's not an argument against the Belt, that's an argument for the current devices that already exist and for whatever reasons haven't been successful.

    I don't agree that the reason the BB10 devices haven't succeeded is because people think they're exactly like the BBOS devices that DO have a keyboard and Belt. I think anyone actually looking at a Z10 or Z30 would be able to tell immediately that it isn't like a 9900.

    Or do you think that consumers see a BB10 full slab and think it's still running BB7? If so, do you have an explanation as to why so many people who try the BB10 are frustrated with the pure gestures experience? I don't think it's as simple as telling people "it's different". I think part of the problem is that it's "too different" to what they expect from a BB device, and certainly different from iOS and Android with which they might be familiar.
    It's not supposed to be like OS7. It's BB10.

    BlackBerry Since 2006. Rogers Halifax, NS - Z10 Official 10.2.1
    02-24-14 06:59 PM
  3. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I don't hate it.. I just think it's a step backwards and I won't be getting any devices that offer it. I think it's a good thing for those who want it back but I'm not among them. I've moved on and won't be looking forward to wise arse jokes every BlackBerry hating blog out there will post, lol. it's just ammo to imply BlackBerry is stuck in the dark ages.
    I would have thought you'd have developed a very thick skin dealing with this day in day out for all this time Bla1ze... I know you're being sarcastic, but do you think a few Belted devices would increase BB10 device sales, especially among BBOS holdouts, or not?

    Posted via CB10
    southlander likes this.
    02-24-14 07:03 PM
  4. RyanGermann's Avatar
    It's not supposed to be like OS7. It's BB10.

    BlackBerry Since 2006. Rogers Halifax, NS - Z10 Official 10.2.1
    ...and that attitude, held by BlackBerry management prior to Chen, has lead to the current lamentable situation. Thor said flat out that even though people wanted the trackpad, he wouldn't bring a device to market having one. That terrified me early on, and I was right to be terrified I think, in retrospect.

    Only time will tell if a belted device will reengage BBOS holdouts, but BlackBerry will never know if they don't try, will they? From the sounds of it, Chen is willing to try it.


    Posted via CB10
    02-24-14 07:09 PM
  5. lnichols's Avatar
    I had a Bold 9900 that wouldn't work in sunlight because the optical trackpad had a defect in it. Worked fine indoors but would go nuts outdoors making the phone useless. Even had some geniuses here state it was normal and BlackBerry never said the device could be used outdoors. WTF!?! Replacement unit worked and eventually the T key developed a stutter. My wife's Bold 9900, bought at the same time, had a working trackpad, that eventually developed the outdoor issue, but after the warranty period expired. My Mother-in-law's 9360 that she just replaced with a Q10 had a defective optical pad that wouldn't select when pushed down. So out of 6 trackpad device in my immediate and extended family, half had trackpad failures. Do a search on trackpad and sunlight and you will even see CBK had an issue with one in sunlight. I've seen people who had devices where one of the "belt" buttons stopped working, or fall off etc. I want as few moving part on electronics as possible, especially with BlackBerry's poor QC history.

    So yes I have a legitimate reason to not want a trackpad on my phone, and after using a Z10 exclusively for 10 months I know I don't need it, or a menu button, or a back button, or call accept reject buttons and I can change apps quicker and navigate around quicker in BB10 than I ever did in BBOS. Oh and I had keyboard phones all the way back to the Treo 600 and have no desire for a PKB device at all. You guys can take your 40 extra potential failure points and I'll take reliability and screen real estate.

    Posted via CB10
    Flatman and Shadowyugi like this.
    02-24-14 07:18 PM
  6. RyanGermann's Avatar
    It's that idealism that failed BBRY in the first place.... We don't need change...we don't need apps....we don't give a ^%*# about social media etc....
    Are you serious? BBOS had built-in social networking in BB7, they built the apps themselves. The push to get as many high profile apps on BB10 as possible was heroic and the subject of a lot of BlackBerry PR... and BlackBerry (Thor) said on the record with pride "Not a single line of code from BBOS"... if you ask me the mistake was to MUCH change, too MUCH app-focus, and not enough "BlackBerry". They were to willing to let go of "strengths" because someone called them names.

    Mike L had the biggest ka-hoe-nays of the bunch... what's done is done, but someone feel free to explain to me why "the phantom menace" is better than "star wars" because it's 20 years newer and I have a gently used z10 I will sell you for $800.

    Posted via CB10
    02-24-14 07:21 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I will repeat my previous comment.

    Who are you trying to win over with the trackpad?

    BB10 is a true BlackBerry experience. Nothing like Android or iOS. Anyone who says they would leave to another platform because of the lack of a trackpad on BB10 is going to leave anyway. There is so much more to BlackBerry than a trackpad. Why spend valuable resources?

    Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141

    Posted via CB10
    Flatman likes this.
    02-24-14 07:23 PM
  8. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Who are you trying to win over with the trackpad?
    10s of millions of BBOS Users.

    BB10 is a true BlackBerry experience. Nothing like Android or iOS. Anyone who says they would leave to another platform because of the lack of a trackpad on BB10 is going to leave anyway. There is so much more to BlackBerry than a trackpad. Why spend valuable resources?
    I disagree with pretty much all of that except that BlackBerry is more than the trackpad, and my reasoning is in the posts above so I won't repeat it here. if you're interested in describing the resource expenditure that would be better allocated elsewhere and what might be better, i'm sincerely interested.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 02-24-14 at 08:21 PM.
    02-24-14 07:49 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    10s of millions of BBOS Users.


    Posted via CB10
    Where else are those 10 million users going to go?

    There are many, many things about BlackBerry that make it different than other platforms - not just the trackpad.

    I still contend that if someone leaves BlackBerry because of the removal of the trackpad, they were leaving anyway. There are countless compelling reasons to stay if you are a true BlackBerry lover.


    Posted via CB10
    02-24-14 07:58 PM
  10. iamagod's Avatar
    This is the greatest news I have heard coming out of BlackBerry since BB10 launched!

    THANK YOU SO MUCH MR. CHEN, I LOVE YOU. And thank you, OP, for taking the time to challenge the haters. But seriously, it is a waste of time, they just don't get it.
    02-24-14 08:02 PM
  11. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Where else are those 10 million users going to go?
    Nowhere i.e. stick with their BBOS device, i.e. no more revenue for BB, or to iOS or Android, so no revenue for BB.

    Posted via CB10
    02-24-14 08:26 PM
  12. iamagod's Avatar
    The irrational hate and alarmist assumptions that adding physical buttons to SOME or even just ONE new qwerty will change BB10 OS on all devices is disappointing (and almost embarrassing).

    I am a BlackBerry owner and Z10 daily user and do want a qwerty with a belt. I have learned that I prefer excellent communication tools over the larger screen. I really don't give a **** at all about "apps", social media, and whatnot.

    I would be more than happy with a Bold 9900 chassis with BB10 OS, 2GB RAM, 1.4GHz dual core ARM CPU, and 32GB of storage. Preferably with a camera that doesn't suck. BlackBerry 10OS has a much better Web browser than BBOS7 and really that's the only noticeable upgrade for my usage that I have found with this Z10, apart from the speed due to the better CPU. For everything else, I actually really don't like the Z10 very much (especially BMM/SMS/Email).

    The BB10 gestures are alright, but I am really quite shocked the flick up to close from the PlayBook is not on BB10. I find that where the BlackBerry button and app switch menu on OS4.5 to OS7 was 100% the first time I pressed the button, where as BB10 gestures can require several attempts to register, which is annoying. BB10 is not all cupcakes and sunshine...

    Anyhow, I don't understand why so many Crackberry users feel the need to berate and belittle the things that others value, simply because they do not value them. I personally don't like touch screen devices and auto correct, but I don't spend my days imploring others to "move on" other more advanced technologies. Who am I to judge? And who are you?

    What is most likely is that BlackBerry will continue to create Q10/Q5, Z10/Z30, and Bold/Curve style devices in tandem, because each hardware paradigm has value to BlackBerry users. I would not be surprised to see a modern day BlackBerry Pearl either, because innovation and functionality transcend the passage of time; 100 years later, cars still have rubber tires, because they work.

    Magnificently composed using CB10 on my BB Z10!
    Well ******* said! Agree with every single sentence in your post.
    02-24-14 08:31 PM
  13. raph_ryo's Avatar
    I hope "their users" they listen to are the right users. From what I've seen on here "their users" are a minority. I guess this isn't really a good place to get a feel for what "their users" want as it isn't only people who have to sort thru thousands of emails a day from their cupcake company that come here.
    By looking at sales figure from last quarter i don't think "their users" are minority because as far as I'm concerned all legacy device sold have "belt"


    Sent from my iPad using CB Forums mobile app
    02-24-14 08:41 PM
  14. Barefoot_Kevin's Avatar
    I love my Z10, but prefer a physical keyboard. The reason I didn't get the Q10 was because of the lack of the traditional keyboard / button layout.

    Posted via CB10
    02-24-14 08:46 PM
  15. raph_ryo's Avatar
    I will repeat my previous comment.

    Who are you trying to win over with the trackpad?

    BB10 is a true BlackBerry experience. Nothing like Android or iOS. Anyone who says they would leave to another platform because of the lack of a trackpad on BB10 is going to leave anyway. There is so much more to BlackBerry than a trackpad. Why spend valuable resources?

    Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141

    Posted via CB10
    I agree with what u said on BBRY more than a trackpad but i believe BB10 with a trackpad is one of the device on the BB10 line-up not all BB10 device will have it.

    Same case with legacy device which don't have camera. They just want to meet demand because its their main business.

    If Vaio business shutdown, sony still got its Playstation or TV business. Same goes to Samsung and Apple.




    Sent from my iPad using CB Forums mobile app
    02-24-14 08:50 PM
  16. xanadome's Avatar
    Ii just need the communication functionalities offered by legacy devices. If i need app i have iPad for it.
    Exactly!
    Smart!
    02-24-14 08:54 PM
  17. badiyee's Avatar
    You've been forewarned:
    Your mileage may vary.


    I had to re-read the OP's post again and again, just to make sure that I'm not firing a blank and a miss (double strike). I personally do not think that this is a belt phobe vs belt loving issue. I believe the issue at the core is how you want your trackpad done.

    Unfortunately, there are people who are in these forums claim that the lack of trackpad severely limits their ability to communicate / do tasks, with or without giving a try to BB10.

    Disclaimer: As many of you would have (probably) remembered, I owned a BlackBerry Torch 9800 since 2011, and I just got my Z10 on Feb 2014.

    For me, the entire User experience on a BBOS and a BB10 is completely different level. It does not even help the fact that I also owned a PlayBook, because I realized on the day I had my Z10 (which was strangely still set in 10.0, for the fact that it was a second hand set) the User Experience on a Z10, PlayBook and the Torch were fundamentally different. One was a Click and hold, the other a card system, and the latest iteration the "hub under your skin" approach to things.

    On the pro-belt side of things, I could imagine the most functional of the belt would be the "green call" and the "red cancel call" button. That's something that is irreplaceable. You can be typing and you need to call somebody suddenly, and the "call" button is there. You can receive a call, do notes, continue doing whatever you wanted, and cancel the call with the red button. Apparently BlackBerry has not solved this issue. (if it was one, but it did irritate me, since I still had to go back to the call menu and click "end call"). The "BB" button and the "go back" button is pretty much replaceable, since there are virtual equivalent to that (with exception of switching from open app A to open app B, but we'll get to that), but for whatever reason there are people who would swear by the physical version of it than the swipe version of that.

    The one thing that baffled me the most is the trackpad. Now, for about 18 months prior to my purchase of z10, I was already living with a broken trackpad. I can't press it, I can't use it. That means no click, and no "mouseover". For whatever reasons, I actually did not use it, with exception of the time I missed Waze on BBOS because Waze needs the clickable trackpad to work for it to work properly.

    There are people who claim that the trackpad is more "accurate" than the touchpad. On a BBOS legacy device, probably yes. On a Z10, Z30, Q10? I really doubt that. I'm sure if everyone had the time to read through the "blackberry OS 10.2.1 reviewer's guide" would have realized by then that the same thing could be achieved via BlackBerry 10 OS, just in a different visual presentation. The only legitimate complain (out of a discussion I had with #IChooseBlackBerry10 group members) is that mouseover doesn't work properly in flash sites, and therefore a trackpad would solve that. (which theorically, is correct). However, I still do not think that reason alone is valid in bringing back an entire belt of trackpad + physical buttons into the BB10 paradigm.

    But I would propose a virtual belt, that users can opt for, or get rid of. It is I think a fair balance between the both worlds, and definitely a better option for both side(s) of the fence, be it pro-belt or against-belt argument/sentiments.
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    02-24-14 09:40 PM
  18. coldRooster's Avatar
    Wow. Ryan I didn't realize that "Belt" was a religion.

    Posted via my beautiful Z10
    02-24-14 09:50 PM
  19. FF22's Avatar
    [QUOTE=robsteve;10046778]

    Have you ever used a BlackBerry with a trackpad? It was much quicker and more accurate selecting links, especially on desktop type web pages.

    I would also challenge somebody to pinch to zoom and select a link one handed. The old BBOS phone did this without any problem.
    It also helped avoid accidentally opening links (ads more than likely) that were not intended to be tapped. Trackpad the cursor to the exact locale and click/tap. Done. One tv news site I visit, I wind up opening one ad for every click inadvertently.
    02-24-14 09:55 PM
  20. badiyee's Avatar
    [QUOTE=F2;10049734]

    It also helped avoid accidentally opening links (ads more than likely) that were not intended to be tapped. Trackpad the cursor to the exact locale and click/tap. Done. One tv news site I visit, I wind up opening one ad for every click inadvertently.
    I would have disputed that, based on my experience alone, but then mileage may vary between users.
    02-24-14 10:28 PM
  21. aha's Avatar
    You begin to wonder who Mr. Chen chose to surround himself.... dinosaurs?
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    02-24-14 10:45 PM
  22. southlander's Avatar

    Why does that look like I said it when I didn't?


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    I fixed it. Nested quotes and I accidentally deleted one of the ending "QUOTE" tags. Sorry.

    Hmmm. Or something odd is going on with CB that causes one to be deleted -- just now happened in this very reply and I also had to edit this one.
    02-24-14 11:49 PM
  23. allengeorge's Avatar
    I don't hate it.. I just think it's a step backwards and I won't be getting any devices that offer it. I think it's a good thing for those who want it back but I'm not among them. I've moved on and won't be looking forward to wise arse jokes every BlackBerry hating blog out there will post, lol. it's just ammo to imply BlackBerry is stuck in the dark ages.
    I'm with Bla1ze on this one. If BB shifts to using the belt again I...won't be getting any devices that use it. Then again, I have a strong suspicion that people like me are no longer BlackBerry's target market (I like the Z10, prefer the virtual keyboard, and like larger screens) and that the Z10/Z30 are the last of the line for us.

    No worries. You have to focus on your strengths - and I hope BB survives regardless
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    02-25-14 12:14 AM
  24. MrGlenn's Avatar
    So, Q20 with tool belt just confirmed.
    Hope to hear some specs soon, to know if it is an upgrade for the Q10 or just similar specs + belt added.
    Then we can finally start this discussion with some facts.

    One last comment though: they keep talking about consumers asking for the tool belt. But if that is really true, and they decided BB10 really needs it, why not release the Z3 with one as well.
    Seems to me that entry-level model, targeted at bringing emerging-markets (BBOS) consumers to BB10, would have been ideal for it. Hope the Z3 will not be criticised for lacking it.

    BlackBerry 10 signed.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-25-14 01:58 AM
  25. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Why do you need a trackpad when you can just touch anywhere you want on the screen? Why do you want dedicated buttons when virtual buttons do so much more and don't take up valuable real estate? Makes no sense to me.
    Belive it or not, but there are still people out there who prefer the precision and the tactile feel & feedback of a physical button over the "hit and miss and try to position cursor and correct and mistype again and so on and on" method on a touchscreen.
    Eupathic Impulse likes this.
    02-25-14 04:59 AM
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