Why the Trackpad (Belt) hate?
- I have a better idea than "taking a business class". Take a page out of the book of people who are actually successful at what they do. Apple doesn't care where some abstract "consumer" is. Apple loves their users. You can come along for the ride if you want to, if you're not really a part of the users they love. Or you can buy an Android phone. But Apple is Honey Badger. RIM was also once Honey Badger. It wasn't as popular a Honey Badger as Apple was. That's OK, as long as you love your users. You have a chance.02-25-14 07:38 AMLike 0
- Like I said, love your users. If you think your users are "lazy or stupid", get out of the business of making money. I'd like to mandate "smarter" users if I could -- although I don't think that touchscreens are the height of intelligence, why abolish a whole human sense from the palette of user experiences -- but BB has to make money and that money is not coming from the users who have already bought Android and iPhone and are waiting to get rid of their BBs. The market for BBs are the people who love BB phones.
Posted via my beautiful Z1002-25-14 07:39 AMLike 0 - @conite: I find it hard to separate the Belt and the whole BBOS/Bold experience, really. Now, there are aspects of BB10 that still replicate BBOS, like the emphasis on messaging. Which was a good choice, it's what users want.
I like Chen. He seems to be on your side, so you are in good company.
I'm all for choice. Maybe with Foxconn he has not had to invest anything, and is essentially getting this for free. It will be a good, low risk, gauge to see if it flies.02-25-14 07:42 AMLike 0 - I don't understand your reference to "your users" as I do not work at or run blackberry. But okay. And that's what I am saying. They have made a phone with a belt in order to cater to the BBOS crowd when that crowd has already moved on. That's my point. BlackBerry had to out the BB10 crowd on hold for a crowd that I don't think they will make a lot of money off of. and if they do then great! If not oh well.
Posted via my beautiful Z10
Look at the facts. Some have moved on but many remain. To date have only been 5-6 million BB10 devices shipped, in one year. Do you honestly think BB can survive on that?
Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums02-25-14 07:42 AMLike 0 - I don't understand your reference to "your users" as I do not work at or run blackberry. But okay. And that's what I am saying. They have made a phone with a belt in order to cater to the BBOS crowd when that crowd has already moved on. That's my point. BlackBerry had to out the BB10 crowd on hold for a crowd that I don't think they will make a lot of money off of. and if they do then great! If not oh well.
Posted via my beautiful Z1002-25-14 07:42 AMLike 0 - I have a better idea than "taking a business class". Take a page out of the book of people who are actually successful at what they do. Apple doesn't care where some abstract "consumer" is. Apple loves their users. You can come along for the ride if you want to, if you're not really a part of the users they love. Or you can buy an Android phone. But Apple is Honey Badger. RIM was also once Honey Badger. It wasn't as popular a Honey Badger as Apple was. That's OK, as long as you love your users. You have a chance.
Posted via my beautiful Z1002-25-14 07:43 AMLike 0 - Okay. you have good points in your arguments. I just think IN NY OPINION blackberry. Should not have done or so what they are. But that is just me. If I'm wrong I'm okay with that
Posted via my beautiful Z1002-25-14 07:45 AMLike 0 - Who says that crowd has moved on? They still have 10s of millions of active BBOS users and they still sell a few millions of them every quarter.
Look at the facts. Some have moved on but many remain. To date have only been 5-6 million BB10 devices shipped, in one year. Do you honestly think BB can survive on that?
Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
Posted via my beautiful Z1002-25-14 07:45 AMLike 0 - Belt and trackpad lovers are missing the point. Sure, pushing a buton is easy. By that logic we should have a button for everything.
But BB made a choice, right or wrong, to adopt a gesture-based OS. With that they shifted the entire company strategy to design a good one. Watch the video of the unveiling of the Z10. From CEO down, everyone hailed the new OS as a leap forward.
Now, a year later with things not going well, BB reverts back to its roots circa 2004? Really? So we are supposed to forget all of that gesture talk from last year?
It boils down to BB wanting to give its customers what they want (a very short sided view) or give them what they need.
Trackpads and function keys = 250,000 really happy BB fanatics and a DEAD Blackberry.coldRooster likes this.02-25-14 07:45 AMLike 1 - Apple's users have decided what they like and what they don't. That's why the iPhone makes micro changes. Samsung did the same thing. It's economics and marketing. CONSUMERS DETERMINE WHAT IS AND IS NOT MADE ON A MARKET. Look at how apple is now having to make a bigger iPhone. I'm sure apple made that decision on their own though, and not because consumers want it. Companies are successfully because of consumers. Companies rely on consumers. Not vice versa.
I don't think you're very clear on who Apple's consumers are or why they make the decisions that they do. Apple is not going to pander to what Samsung users want. That's not Apple's philosophy at all. Apple has probably done research on its own installed base. What will make its large installed base happy will eventually spill over onto the wider market, like it always has.02-25-14 07:47 AMLike 0 - kbz1960Doesn't MatterWho says that crowd has moved on? They still have 10s of millions of active BBOS users and they still sell a few millions of them every quarter.
Look at the facts. Some have moved on but many remain. To date have only been 5-6 million BB10 devices shipped, in one year. Do you honestly think BB can survive on that?
Sent from my iPhone using CB ForumscoldRooster likes this.02-25-14 07:47 AMLike 1 - "Give them what they need": they don't need gestures. They have their place, but "gesture-based UI" is an SF movie fad.02-25-14 07:48 AMLike 0
- Again, people, look at the Windows 8 Start Button fiasco. That is what happens when you chase after a chimera, rather than understanding how it is people who love your products use your products.RyanGermann likes this.02-25-14 07:50 AMLike 1
- Then I don't know why you seem to want BB to behave contemptuously towards a group of loyal consumers or take a contemptuous attitude.
I don't think you're very clear on who Apple's consumers are or why they make the decisions that they do. Apple is not going to pander to what Samsung users want. That's not Apple's philosophy at all. Apple has probably done research on its own installed base. What will make its large installed base happy will eventually spill over onto the wider market, like it always has.
Posted via my beautiful Z1002-25-14 07:52 AMLike 0 - Because BlackBerry dedicated itself to a new OS. Now it's not going as well as planned so they go back to what they did before. Like another person said above. They go back because they are failing = dead blackberry. And Apple is making those phones because they either have or are worried about losing users to android because of the bigger phones or more available options.
Posted via my beautiful Z10
BB dedicated itself to a new OS, which is all well and good. Unfortunately, what they dedicated themselves too was based on a bad theory of overrated UX designers, in part with, to be fair, some pretty nice new ideas. A few. The execution was problematic, because it was too radical a change from the existing user base. You will never find Apple forcibly attempting to uproot their user's existing UX. You will find them...making a phablet that runs iOS!RyanGermann likes this.02-25-14 07:57 AMLike 1 -
If don't get why you argue so much when clearly BB10 isn't good enough for you belt or no belt.
I don't think you ever intended yo buy a BB10 device.
This marks a HUGE U-Turn for BB and I like it, BB10 could eventually be good enough for me.
Sent from my iPhone using CB Forumsjefbeard911 likes this.02-25-14 07:57 AMLike 1 - Because BlackBerry dedicated itself to a new OS. Now it's not going as well as planned so they go back to what they did before. Like another person said above. They go back because they are failing = dead blackberry. And Apple is making those phones because they either have or are worried about losing users to android because of the bigger phones or more available options.
Posted via my beautiful Z10
First let's stop the remaining BBOS users leaving to other platforms.
Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums02-25-14 07:59 AMLike 0 -
Well, we agree on that at least.02-25-14 08:20 AMLike 0 - kbz1960Doesn't MatterSo did you, at least I gave BB10 a try, twice. You're still a BBOS user like me, you should be happy about the belt.
If don't get why you argue so much when clearly BB10 isn't good enough for you belt or no belt.
I don't think you ever intended yo buy a BB10 device.
This marks a HUGE U-Turn for BB and I like it, BB10 could eventually be good enough for me.
Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
When I asked you yesterday? What you would buy given a choice, a new BB10 with a belt or a new BBOS with a belt you said you tried BB10 and you would go for the new BBOS or move to something else. That's ok though, we all change our minds about things.
Edit: I didn't know having an opinion was arguing.02-25-14 08:22 AMLike 0 - No I've never said that. The only reason I'm still on legacy is because 1 my carrier offers zero BB10 phones, I'll have to change carriers an pay more for less, the belt will not entice me to upgrade. Plus I'm waiting to see if BBRY can quit being schizoid and stick to NE thing for longer than a month.
When I asked you yesterday? What you would buy given a choice, a new BB10 with a belt or a new BBOS with a belt you said you tried BB10 and you would go for the new BBOS or move to something else. That's ok though, we all change our minds about things.
Sent from my iPhone using CB Forumskbz1960 likes this.02-25-14 08:23 AMLike 1 - I don't want to oversimplify here, but if BB10 reintegrated BIS into the OS and had BBOS feature parity via settings and shortcuts, would that satisfy you? You're starting to sound a bit spiteful, not just dissatisfied with the missing functionality from BB10.
BB10 is "another platform" but its the platform that makes BB Ltd. money, while the others do not. The fact that BB10 was so different from BBOS is what has made it "another platform" so calling it QN10 would have been a more accurate but less "marketing-y" name for BB10. Nothing says "this is a totally different and unfamiliar platform" like a) Thor saying "not a single line of code" and b) having to run BES10 and BES5 in parallel to support both BB10 and BBOS devices. Just add that to the list of strategic errors "overcome" on Chen's watch (the announcement of BES12) although I acknowledge BES12 development started long before 3 months ago.02-25-14 08:28 AMLike 0 - Tell that to Apple, Android, and Microsoft. They seem to be doing pretty well with it. Besides, Minortity Report, which I guess your referring to is a 10 year old movie. Before iOS, Android, and WP's time.. Guess RIM missed it. Too bad. Rock on 1% market share!kbz1960 and pantlesspenguin like this.02-25-14 08:29 AMLike 2
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As business strategies go, it's a good one at a high level, but their 'execution' (no pun intended) was poor... they were clearly willing to risk some customer satisfaction, and they grossly underestimated the harshness of the reaction, so they're backing things out via Windows 8.1 and so on... only by bringing back the full Start menu and Desktop-mode focus like those Windows 8 addons do would they finally appease users... but that's probably farther away from "Metro" than Microsoft wants to go.02-25-14 08:33 AMLike 0
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Why the Trackpad (Belt) hate?
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