[belfastdispatcher]

[QUOTE=thurask;10047064]

Thumb and index, perch phone on little, ring and middle fingers. Pinch to zoom still works.

Posted via CB10

And there's a reason that's described as "acrobatics" lol


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[thurask]

[QUOTE=belfastdispatcher;10047069]

And there's a reason that's described as "acrobatics" lol


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Maybe if one has tiny hands and a giant phone. I only have the big phone.

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[raph_ryo]

[QUOTE=thurask;10047064]

Thumb and index, perch phone on little, ring and middle fingers. Pinch to zoom still works.

Posted via CB10

Try doing it with one hand while driving or walking


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[RyanGermann]

...some snipped out...

I think big touch screens(4.5-5.5") along with the very best and newest hardware and top notch marketing will save BlackBerry In the consumer space. There is no denying that the overall mobile market has spoken, and touchscreen super phones are what almost everybody wants.

Maybe a belted, larger Q will help BlackBerry hold onto their business customers.

I agree with you entirely on the content of this post... I love my Z30 but I'd love a Belted Slider WAY MORE. I'm not who I'm trying to sell to because I'm already a BB10 user, take it or leave it, Belted or Beltless... but for BlackBerry to grow, they can't leave the BBOS users behind, and a Belted device is UNIQUE and a significant market differentiator akin to the Galaxy Note 3: not for everyone, but Samsung sold 20 million "Note" devices... THAT'S JUST THE NOTE! 4 times more than BB10 on some freakishly huge thing with a WRITING STICK for heaven's sake (most people just want the huge screen, but there it is).

The Note is a unique offering and BlackBerry has PATENTS they can base their unique offerings on, and a few of them are tied up in the BELT and keyboards (ever wonder why the first Nexus phone had a trackball instead of a Trackpad, when the Ball gets human skin all gummed up in it? ech.)

I do believe if being a full touchscreen was a significant factor for BB10's success, BB10 would be a success, because the Z30 exists and it's excellent. "People want touchscreens" might be true on the "macro" level i.e. among the hundreds of millions of users out there, but BlackBerry is remaking itself into a niche product company, and you can't do "niche" properly just by being like everyone else but less so (which is what BB10 appears to be to most of the "market", consumer and enterprise alike.)

[RyanGermann]

Try doing it with one hand while driving or walking

I fixed it for you. NO TEXTING AND DRIVING. NO!

[thurask]

[QUOTE=raph_ryo;10047082]

Try doing it with one hand while driving or walking


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The first one is illegal up here.

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[raph_ryo]

First, on behalf of all monolingual English speakers I apologize to YOU for feeling that you have to apologize to us for not being a native English speaker: your English is very good, I'm sure everyone can understand what you are saying.

The only thing I might disagree with or maybe I misunderstand is that BlackBerry should continue to release new OS7 devices. I think what is really needed is that they need to make BB10 have all the same capabilities as BBOS did, and of course it would have more like being able to run BB10 and Android apps... but in order to duplicate most of the functionality of BBOS, the Belt would be needed. So I'm a strong believer in BB10 being the way forward, but also think there was lots to like about BBOS and the designers and developers of BB10 need to re-integrate as many features as possible as soon as possible, with as few compromises as possible.

That said: if BB can make more money selling BB7 devices, they shouldn't rule that out either... but I think a BB10 device with all the features of BBOS would be as good if not better for both the customer and for BlackBerry.

I agree with you regarding duplicate OS7 capabilities on OS10. It just that "i think" BBRY should release two option as in lower model like OS7 to compete with feature phone or low end android and high end model like OS10 to compete with Apple and other high end android.

When one purchase OS7 model, BBRY will get stream income from BIS

Can't wait what kind of design of BB10 with belt will look like.


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[RyanGermann]

Thumb and index, perch phone on little, ring and middle fingers. Pinch to zoom still works.

Did you just suggest a technique for one-handed operation that involves "perching" the device in your hand in an unbalanced way where your index finger pushing down on the phone above the center of gravity is bound to make the device drop right to the floor unless you're got super-human digital dexterity?

:-)

I think you did!

I do this myself, but it's not comfortable, or fast, or convenient, and still requires a significant degree of concentration and skill that I don't think is a practical solution for more than 5% of the worlds population.

Clutzes of the world UNITE: BB10 Belted BlackBerry! Write to your congress-person today!

[raph_ryo]

[QUOTE=thurask;10047101]

The first one is illegal up here.

Posted via CB10

Yeah i know. Sorry for that its just sometime i did it when stuck in long traffic jam lol


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[RyanGermann]

When one purchase OS7 model, BBRY will get stream income from BIS

Well, I think there is a consensus that most carriers object to having to maintain BIS servers, and only with the goodwill of the carriers can BIS even continue to be functional on the carriers worldwide... I think the ship has sailed on BIS, but I admit I don't know a lot about it... it may be be another failure of the communications / PR team in the (old) RIM company that didn't effectively articulate (or enable / allow) the possible BENEFITS to carriers to use and maintain the BIS service... but on the other hand, there's also got to be a way to OPTIONALLY add BIS enablement to BB10 OPTIONALLY AS AN OPTION FOR THOSE WHO MAKE THE INFORMED DECISION TO OPTIONALLY OPT-IN AT THEIR OPTION. Not mandatory. OPTIONAL.

Can't wait what kind of design of BB10 with belt will look like.

Me neither. When I read that article, and saw it was on a legit site like the Globe and Mail (not the 'unsubstantiated rumor the-next-iphone-will-have-a-glasses-free-3d-screen' blogosphere) my heart rate went up a bit. Could be the coffee though.

[thurask]

Tried it while moving, too. Still works.

As for text editing, flick typing and the selector bubble work well while walking and using one hand.

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[elcheapodeluxe]

I am definitely pro-belt. It would solve a NUMBER of problems (speaking from my experience with my Q10, which I otherwise love).

Instant access to call / hang up buttons. Hanging up drives me crazy because I have to remove the phone from my face, and wait for the screen to come on or fiddle with it to make the screen come on, then press the end call icon on the screen. Way more annoying than pre-BB10 solution of just pressing the red button and putting it back in your pocket.

Definitely precision selection was mentioned by the OP

Allocating a menu key for "back" and "menu" would make using android apps so much easier. Android developers only casually follow Google's own design standards as is, so UI's are all over the map. Current dilemma is to either leave the back key on the screen all the time eating up more real estate from a screen which is already an aspect ratio not suited for many android apps, or have the on-screen back button hidden and try to use the gesture. Physical keys would make it a lot easier, IMO.


I think there are a number of people out there like Martha Stewart who were previously BB lovers but who don't like the new experience sans trackpad and buttons. I think this is exactly what she was referring to when she said whoever designed BB10 were idiots. This would certainly help bring them back into the fold. Not that I give a flying fudge about what Martha Stewart thinks....

[raw_dog]

I don't hate the trackpad or the "key belt" per say; I am of the opinion that those are legacy items that are no longer needed. Remember that for a long time Blackberry was chided for not being able to let go of the past and those items were held up as the reason that so many left for other devices because they were seen as not being forward looking or modern. I have found that when I transistioned from the Bold 9900 to a Z10 that the all touch experience was very fluid compared to the stop and click that I endured before. Now I find myself using gestures to try and accomplish things on my Bold for work and it is simply not as intuitive and the flow just is not there. I am currently waiting for a Q10 to get delivered from our IMO group and I can't wait to have a well integrated gestures experience no matter which I use.

[kbz1960]

I know I'm in the minority but the lack of a belt isn't the reason I haven't upgraded yet. Or a lack of legacy features, although some of them would help.

I haven't upgraded because I'm still waiting to see some clear consistent message from the company so I can have some faith in them again. So far I'm getting mixed messages as to who they are, what they want to be and where they are going.

From my point of view they don't have a clue and just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.

I wonder what will happen when these phones come out and flop as well?

[MarkITDev]

is there a reason why you think BlackBerry should not release both devices, and only release the one without the Belt?

Because it may make bezel gestures from the bottom of the screen aggravating since your fingers will have to slide over the "belt". Why not make it virtual instead? A virtual track pad could change into a larger joypad after your finger rests on it for that matter. This would allow those that want it to have it and those that don't to turn it off and BB not have to have to carry or market two products. That would have to be optimized or the UX would be tarnished since how would they swipe up.

The track pad could have provided a "home" like hardware button last year when it was released when all the competition had physical home buttons but there is less of an argument for that now. There are plenty of droid phones that do not have any physical buttons and those users don't appear to get confused.

A think a better solution would be (whether physical or virtual) is make sure that screen navigation is consistent across native and Android apps so that it would be virtually transparent to the user what type of app they are using especially since Android apps are helping fill the app gap.

[RyanGermann]

Tried it while moving, too. Still works. As for text editing, flick typing and the selector bubble work well while walking and using one hand.

I would pay real money to see that sideshow. You go and put up a youtube video showing how that works (no edits, cuts, only one take) and I will PAYPAL you $5. Honest. Doesn't matter if you drop the device or it works like a charm, you will get real money from me if you post that video and put a link here in this topic.

Swear to, well, Gaia I guess, and that IS my real name up there.

[belfastdispatcher]

Because it may make bezel gestures from the bottom of the screen aggravating since your fingers will have to slide over the "belt". Why not make it virtual instead? A virtual track pad could change into a larger joypad after your finger rests on it for that matter. This would allow those that want it to have it and those that don't to turn it off and BB not have to have to carry or market two products. That would have to be optimized or the UX would be tarnished since how would they swipe up.

The track pad could have provided a "home" like hardware button last year when it was released when all the competition had physical home buttons but there is less of an argument for that now. There are plenty of droid phones that do not have any physical buttons and those users don't appear to get confused.

A think a better solution would be (whether physical or virtual) is make sure that screen navigation is consistent across native and Android apps so that it would be virtually transparent to the user what type of app they are using especially since Android apps are helping fill the app gap.

You can't feel a virtual trackpad, you can't feel the edges or texture so you'd have to look at it while using it.


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[RyanGermann]

Because it may make bezel gestures from the bottom of the screen aggravating since your fingers will have to slide over the "belt".

...but the device you own wouldn't have the Belt, so "you" wouldn't have to do any of this? Again, why should BB NOT release this device IN ADDITION TO the full screen slab Belt-less devices?

Why not make it virtual instead? A virtual track pad could change into a larger joypad after your finger rests on it for that matter. This would allow those that want it to have it and those that don't to turn it off and BB not have to have to carry or market two products. That would have to be optimized or the UX would be tarnished since how would they swipe up.

That would be an excellent option for those with full touchscreen devices that in some cases would like the Belt, but most of the time don't want it on their device. I think it's a great idea, but doesn't replicate the tactile response and immediacy of performance of tasks that the Belt does.

The track pad could have provided a "home" like hardware button last year when it was released when all the competition had physical home buttons but there is less of an argument for that now. There are plenty of droid phones that do not have any physical buttons and those users don't appear to get confused.

You're not suggesting that Apple and Samsung are going to release flagship devices that lack a physical Home button, are you? I haven't heard any such thing. People loves their homes buttonses.

A think a better solution would be (whether physical or virtual) is make sure that screen navigation is consistent across native and Android apps so that it would be virtually transparent to the user what type of app they are using especially since Android apps are helping fill the app gap.

But Android Apps rely on what amounts to physical buttons: the Back / Home and Recent Apps buttons are omnipresent, just they rotate with the device because they're on screen. And they're annoying (to some) to boot. The Nexus 5 has no home button, but it does have the on-screen buttons all the time (which takes up screen real estate which is so objectionable to so many people)

You haven't changed my mind, sorry, but those are good points.

[raw_dog]

So...if everyone else is reliant on the old way of doing things, we should not move forward?

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[RyanGermann]

I wonder what will happen when these phones come out and flop as well?

Define "flop". Do you mean "overestimating the demand" and producing too many then having to write down the inventory and sell them at a fraction of their gross cost to clear inventory?" That's just bad business, no matter how many you sell.

How about this approach: underproducing and selling at a fair and reasonable profit (no matter how much it costs the end customer) and, since it's a unique product, if demand exceeds supply BB will just have to go ramp up production and produce more, because if someone wants it, there ain't no where else to get it?

If THIS device also flops, then BlackBerry has very little to offer that can't be duplicated in software on other platforms and is, therefore, done... which calls into question why "we're" clinging to it... why should we all not switch to Android and iOS? The reasons are complex and many for us holdouts, but BlackBerry should not forego release of Belted devices when it's one of the things they're known for and appreciated for may be their last best chance of establishing themselves stably in their niche, and move forward from there. I don't know how BB10 can continue to keep pace with innovation on Android and iOS unless there are a significant number of really smart and creative developers working in secret on BlackBerry technology and patenting it so others can't just copy it outright: without patent protections and unique offerings and innovation, how can BlackBerry POSSIBLY survive?

So, BlackBerry has to make bold (pun INTENDED) moves to remain viable and relevant even as a niche product.

[RyanGermann]

So...if everyone else is reliant on the old way of doing things, we should not move forward?

What's your point? Should we change the colour of what "Green" traffic lights mean, or change the colour to blue because about 10 years ago someone had a breakthrough with blue LEDs so now Blue LEDs are all the rage to let's change all the Green traffic lights to blue?

Progress for Progress' sake is not always a good thing.

and again, since it merits repeating: you would still have a full touchscreen device without the Belt, but do you have a reason why BlackBerry should not ALSO release a device WITH the Belt? Aside from "old=bad new=good" which I kind of mention in the first post?

[kbz1960]

Define "flop". Do you mean "overestimating the demand" and producing too many then having to write down the inventory and sell them at a fraction of their gross cost to clear inventory? That's just bad business, no matter how many you sell.

How about this approach: underproducing and selling at a fair and reasonable profit (no matter how much it costs the end customer) and, since it's a unique product, if demand exceeds supply BB will just have to go ramp up production and produce more, because if someone wants it, there ain't no where else to get it?

If THIS device also flops, then BlackBerry has very little to offer that can't be duplicated in software on other platforms and is, therefore, done... which calls into question why "we're" clinging to it... why should we all not switch to Android and iOS? The reasons are complex and many for us holdouts, but for BlackBerry to forego release of Belted devices when it's one of the things they're known for and appreciated for may be their last best chance of establishing themselves stably in their niche, and move forward from there. I don't know how BB10 can continue to keep pace with innovation on Android and iOS unless there are a significant number of really smart and creative developers working in secret on BlackBerry technology and patenting it so others can't just copy it outright: without patent protections and unique offerings and innovation, how can BlackBerry POSSIBLY survive?

So, BlackBerry has to make bold (pun INTENDED) moves to remain viable and relevant even as a niche product.

Flop as in doesn't sell well. Like BB10 people call it a flop for a phone mfg to only sell what BBRY has been able to. Aren't they already a niche player now?

Do you really think this phone with the added belt is going to sell any more than what they currently sell? I don't.

[anon6040766]

I think the belt would drive some current BlackBerry 10 users away while barely attracting any new users.

May get some legacy users to upgrade, but the goal is to steal the competition. Even Apple fans want to get rid of their home key. A touch screen is a touch screen is a touch screen. It doesn't require a belt as you can do everything without it.

Sure the track pad may help you edit a little faster but I type much faster and more accurate on my Q10 and Z30 rendering that minimally useful. Moreover, the whole end and answer call button issuse...seriously, if swiping up or down in 10.1 or 10.2 or left or right in 10.2.1 is to difficult than perhaps your best suited with a 9900 which is still a great phone.

Posted via my BlackBerry Q10 or Z30 on VZW from Philly

[RyanGermann]

Flop as in doesn't sell well. Like BB10 people call it a flop for a phone mfg to only sell what BBRY has been able to. Aren't they already a niche player now?

Do you really think this phone with the added belt is going to sell any more than what they currently sell? I don't.

I do, because BB10 is different enough from BB7 that BB7 users might as well switch to Android or iOS: there is no smooth upgrade path for BBOS users.

Also, offering unique devices based on proprietary technology is a way to succeed, far better than offering similar devices that in measurable and significant ways are or are perceived to be 'inferior' to the competition, and a Belted device IS superior in measurable and significant ways over a touchscreen device, if not by every measure, but significant market-differentiating ones.

Yes, they would have to sell "better" than the current lineup to be considered a success... but why do you think the alternative (full screen and keyboard devices without the Belt) WOULD sell. Since there is a calendar year of failure to sell as evidence against "beltless devices", I think the argument for the Belt fares far better than any argument against the Belt if you are going to talk about device form factors.

[RyanGermann]

I think the belt would drive some current BlackBerry 10 users away while barely attracting any new users.

I'm not sure if by "new users" you are excluding or including BBOS users, because I believe a Belted device absolutely WOULD encourage BBOS users to upgrade (explained in earlier posts in this topic).

I think you're suggesting that if BlackBerry release a Belted device, you will sell your Q10 and Z30 and switch to iPhone or Android. Please explain why.

May get some legacy users to upgrade, but the goal is to steal the competition. Even Apple fans want to get rid of their home key.

You assert that a significant number of Apple users object to the home key... I'm puzzled why they haven't all switched to BlackBerry 10. Seems like a simple ad campaign "Look, no home button" would get them all lining up for midnight launches for BB10 devices. I don't think that the home button is objectionable: when they break the device is useless but that's another matter. In fact, "in the trenches" (carrier stores) there were reports that users were confused by BB10 because it didn't have an "obvious" way to get "out" of things, which negatively impacted sales. How much? Don't know, but we know how little BB10 devices have sold, so these are all contributing to the failure of BB10, but I'm more interested in contributing to the success of BB10.

A touch screen is a touch screen is a touch screen. It doesn't require a belt as you can do everything without it.

Your homework is to read this thread and there are lots of well articulated arguments in support of the functionality that is improved and enabled by the Belt (some written by me ) so I don't agree that touchscreen only UX can do everything as well as a Belted BB can, and the only thing that matters is, I guess, if enough of these "unconvinced" users exist to make a Belted device successful for BlackBerry, however BlackBerry shareholders define it.

Sure the track pad may help you edit a little faster but I type much faster and more accurate on my Q10 and Z30 rendering that minimally useful. Moreover, the whole end and answer call button issuse...seriously, if swiping up or down in 10.1 or 10.2 or left or right in 10.2.1 is to difficult than perhaps your best suited with a 9900 which is still a great phone.

I never said it was difficult for me... it is difficult for lots of people who either have not tried BB10, or have tried it and rejected it... and that's bad for BlackBerry and therefore bad for BB10.