[coldRooster]

[QUOTE=robsteve;10046778]

Have you ever used a BlackBerry with a trackpad? It was much quicker and more accurate selecting links, especially on desktop type web pages.

I would also challenge somebody to pinch to zoom and select a link one handed. The old BBOS phone did this without any problem.

Yes. And I have. It's called use your middle finger and thumb to zoom and your index to select the link. Easy.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

[coldRooster]

...and in the other thread I asked you why you think that adding the Belt would make the screen smaller... you're making assumptions about what adding the Belt would mean.

If you could have a device with the Belt on but was 1 CM longer, would the 1 CM be the deal breaker? If the device is 1 CM longer or costs $30 more would that be the reason why you wouldn't buy it?

No, You don't want the Belt, you like a full touch screen. So that's the model you would buy.

I guess I'm not making the point of this topic very clear. This isn't a 'would you buy a device with a Belt' poll, I'm sincerely interested to know why people think BlackBerry should not produce a range of devices that include some devices that have the Belt, because for a lot of people, it goes beyond their personal choice, it's statements like "it would be a bad business decision for BlackBerry".

Because a lot of those people that have those blackberries already have other phones.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

[Taigatrommel]

I think you nailed it with the statement trackpad = old. I can already see the negative news by certain blogs and papers when BBRY introduces a new phone with trackpad and the well known additional buttons. The headlines will be like "BlackBerry steps back even further!"
However, there are a fair number of users who really miss the trackpad. Personally I don't really care too much about the physical buttons, but the trackpad comes really handy in terms of text editing. Selecting, especially precisely selecting text by using the trackpad with pressed shift-key is waaaay more convenient than using the touchscreen. Even though BBRY was really trying to enhance the experience with different markers and the ability to tap the screen with pressed shift-key. Yet these updates still can't compete with an actual trackpad.

On the other side I can understand the people who miss out the screen size, especially on QWERTY devices, where screen size is limited in the first place.

Personally I am not sure if I am too happy about these news or not. It is an interesting step for sure and I am curious how it turns out. If BB increases the screensize for this next device to 3.5" or even more: Why not? So I'll wait for first concept shots or even leaked photos before I start judging the new hardware.

Double-typed and posted with a BlackBerry Q10.

[RyanGermann]

Why do you need a trackpad when you can just touch anywhere you want on the screen? Why do you want dedicated buttons when virtual buttons do so much more and don't take up valuable real estate? Makes no sense to me.

Because editing long-form documents with the precision of the touchpad is better than using a touchscreen. I'll ask you the same question but about Windows 8.

Would you buy a Windows 8 computer that you use for writing long emails or working on spreadsheets and ONLY use the Touchscreen? Sure, there are WIndows 8 tablets and there's an on-screen keyboard, but is the OPTIMAL way to use a Windows 8 computer to do all touchscreen with no keyboard or mouse?

Of course, a keyboard and mouse add to the productivity. Touchscreens are imprecise. You have to struggle with placing the insertion point on a BB10 device... they even let you tap tap tap the edge of the blue circle to move one character over because you can't put the insertion point exactly where you want it first try.

No one would make you buy a device with a Belt, but there are some tasks that having the Belt makes a lot faster (like hanging up a call without looking at the device or having to wait for the "proximity sensor" to wake up and show the "call end" button for example).

[RyanGermann]

I think you nailed it with the statement trackpad = old. I can already see the negative news by certain blogs and papers when BBRY introduces a new phone with trackpad and the well known additional buttons. The headlines will be like "BlackBerry steps back even further!"

Do you think that it can get any worse? The media perception of BlackBerry could worsen? That tech bloggers might poke fun at BlackBerry or make jokes?

If sales improve, wouldn't we, as BlackBerry stakeholders (or even shareholders) "cry all the way to the bank?"

I don't think BlackBerry has anything to lose in the market-perception area... nothing changes market perception like increasing sales... I believe that adding the Belt will increase interest in BB10 devices (SOME DEVICES NOT ALL I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS A LOT BECAUSE PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK THAT ALL DEVICES WOULD HAVE THE BELT NO THEY WOULDN'T JUST SOME DEVICES WOULD I hate have to use my outside voice for that.)

However, there are a fair number of users who really miss the trackpad. Personally I don't really care too much about the physical buttons, but the trackpad comes really handy in terms of text editing. Selecting, especially precisely selecting text by using the trackpad with pressed shift-key is waaaay more convenient than using the touchscreen. Even though BBRY was really trying to enhance the experience with different markers and the ability to tap the screen with pressed shift-key. Yet these updates still can't compete with an actual trackpad.

That doesn't work very well when the touchscreen is jumping all around... in my experience, trying to select text and having the keyboard pop up and disappear and repositioning the screen and when you try to select beyond the visible text hoping it will scroll and it doesn't... very frustrating editing long-form text on BB10.

On the other side I can understand the people who miss out the screen size, especially on QWERTY devices, where screen size is limited in the first place.

But adding the Belt would only add 1 cm to the length of the device, needn't impact the screen size at all.

Personally I am not sure if I am too happy about these news or not. It is an interesting step for sure and I am curious how it turns out. If BB increases the screensize for this next device to 3.5" or even more: Why not? So I'll wait for first concept shots or even leaked photos before I start judging the new hardware.

Keeping an open mind, even though you're not convinced? Thank you! :-)

[robsteve]

[QUOTE=coldRooster;10046816]

Yes. And I have. It's called use your middle finger and thumb to zoom and your index to select the link. Easy.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

How do you do this one handed and not drop the phone?

[RyanGermann]

Yes. And I have. It's called use your middle finger and thumb to zoom and your index to select the link. Easy.

Are you in Cirque du Soliel? :-) Because that kind of dexterity is not common. Most people would struggle to do that and would probably drop / damage their device in the attempt.

Because a lot of those people that have those blackberries already have other phones.

I take it that you think that if BlackBerry doesn't add the Belt then Android or iOS users will come to BlackBerry?

Or that any hope of getting BBOS users to migrate to BB10 is a lost cause?

I'm not sure what that means, but I will say that I think that the benefit to BlackBerry Ltd. of adding the Belt is that a lot of BBOS users that are still using BBOS devices would be more inclined to upgrade to BB10 if there was a device available that had the Belt, and that some minority however small of Android and iOS users would be intrigued to try a device with the Belt... but a small SMALL minority of ALL iOS and Android users is more than all the BB10 users put together, so even a SMALL number of Android and iOS users being attracted to BB10 because a device having the Belt becomes available, well, ALL THE BETTER!

[RyanGermann]

(about zooming on the Z with one hand)

How do you do this one handed and not drop the phone?

I am able to do this, and hate HATE it every time I "have" to do it.

People who aren't fans of the Trackpad often aren't keen on one handed operation. I loved how I can do everything on my Torch 9810 with one hand, but on BB10 lots of things do require two hands, and if you have a Trackpad, you can use it like a mouse to click those buttons that are way at the top left corner of the screen without fumbling with the device.

One handed operation facilitated by the Belt more than touchscreen. Another in the "pro" (no pun intended) column for bringing back the Belt!

[coldRooster]

[QUOTE=robsteve;10046855]

How do you do this one handed and not drop the phone?

Big hands.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

[enesberry]

BlackBerry can do what they want with the qwerty devices, but don't they dare to put the belt at the touchscreen devices.

[Jerale Hoard]

Bringing the trackpad back is "old-fashioned, not up on new technologies, and "out of sync'". BlackBerry's failure was proper marketing and educating retailers on the features of BB10. It has nothing to do with businesses wanting the trackpad. BlackBerry has demoed BB10 with some top fortune 500 businesses and actually got praised because of BB10 during the launch of the Z10 and Q10. Plus what would be the point of having BB10 with a trackpad involved? Might as well bring back the Bold line.

Posted via CB10

[JWWDUKE]

Ok, so you wouldn't buy a BB10 device with the Belt... but do you think that BlackBerry should not manufacture one at all?

I think the belt was designed for bbos and BB10 was designed to not have the belt, so no I do not think BlackBerry should manufacture a "belted" phone.

Ok great, you have your Z10 and it works great. If BB put out two devices next year: a super powered Z20 that was exactly the same as the Z10 but had a much more powerful CPU and higher resolution screen and more memory, and they also put out a device like the Q10 but having the Belt on it (so this new device would be slightly longer to accommodate the Belt buttons) I expect you'd either stick with your Z10 or you'd maybe this new Z20.

I will be buying the next big screen Z series(Z50 or whatever it's been rumored to be called)

Do you think BlackBerry should not put out that "Q20" or whatever? And if not, why not (aside from you not being interested in it personally).

I just don't see the problem with the Q phones that currently don't have it. Text selection was hard with BB10.0 but when we got the improved bubble selector in 10.1, all that frustration went away and now I have zero problems.

In my opinion it is a step backwards to add the belt and track pad. I see quite a few Q users complain about lack of screen size and instead of increasing the phone size to add the belt, they should increase the phone size to increase the screen size. That makes more sense to me.

Z10 10.2.1.1055

[RyanGermann]

BlackBerry can do what they want with the qwerty devices, but don't they dare to put the belt at the touchscreen devices.

Why not?

If you can buy a Z-series device that doesn't have the Belt, but what if there was also a (ok, let's go ahead and call it the) T-series device that had a full touchscreen but ALSO had the Belt along the bottom just like the Torch 9850 (that looked like this for those that don't remember)



is there a reason why you think BlackBerry should not release both devices, and only release the one without the Belt?

[RyanGermann]

In my opinion it is a step backwards to add the belt and track pad. I see quite a few Q users complain about lack of screen size and instead of increasing the phone size to add the belt, they should increase the phone size to increase the screen size. That makes more sense to me.

(Not sure if you're a Q user or not). Again we're not talking about ALL devices having the Belt.

So, I can assume you think the Belt would be fine, so long as it doesn't reduce screen size and otherwise cause problems for existing BB10 customers?

If BlackBerry were to produce a device very much like the Q10 but one centimetre longer and having the Belt between the keyboard and the touchscreen, and should that device sell very well, would you think that was good or bad?

You may not think the device would sell well, which is in itself a good reason for BlackBerry to not do this... but given that NONE of the BB10 devices have "sold well" by any fair assessment, is sticking with the current device strategy, erm, wise?

[RyanGermann]

But I don't think people would tweak the OS just to accommodate devices with the belt.

Not sure who you mean by "people". If you mean "the BlackBerry 10 design / development team would not tweak the OS just to accommodate devices with the Belt" then I agree absolutely. I think the Belt would have to "accommodate" BB10, not change BB10 to work with the Belt. That said, there are proposals for integrating the Belt into BB10 in a "BB10 compatible" way. I believe the Belt can only be an asset to BB10 if it is NOT disruptive to now-familiar-with-BB10-fans user experience, and I absolutely believe it is possible to integrate the Belt into BB10 without disrupting the BB10 UX.

[kbz1960]

Why not?

If you can buy a Z-series device that doesn't have the Belt, but what if there was also a (ok, let's go ahead and call it the) T-series device that had a full touchscreen but ALSO had the Belt along the bottom just like the Torch 9850 (that looked like this for those that don't remember)



is there a reason why you think BlackBerry should not release both devices, and only release the one without the Belt?

And the buttons on my 9850 are failing.

[raph_ryo]

I think this will be good business decision for BBRY as i have a reason to upgrade to OS10 after this. When my 9800 broke early this month im not upgrade to OS10 instead to 9720 because i just need the communication functionalities offered by legacy devices. If i need app i have iPad for it.

Let BBRY release few more choices of their device since this is their main business. They are not Samsung which have also washing machine in their line up. Or Apple which also have desktop in their line up.

Nokia and samsung still releasing their feature phone so why not BBRY release their OS7 phone and treat them as their feature phone too.

Sorry for my bad english.




Sent from my iPad using CB Forums mobile app

[SmileDahling]

Why not?

If you can buy a Z-series device that doesn't have the Belt, but what if there was also a (ok, let's go ahead and call it the) T-series device that had a full touchscreen but ALSO had the Belt along the bottom just like the Torch 9850 (that looked like this for those that don't remember)



is there a reason why you think BlackBerry should not release both devices, and only release the one without the Belt?

Yes. Developers.

BlackBerry already has a problem attracting developers to the platform. This will only make their job harder than it is (having to develop for Z10 and Z3 and then changing their apps for the Q10.

Throw a track pad in there? You have a bigger problem.

Posted via CB10

[RyanGermann]

And the buttons on my 9850 are failing.

Hardware button failure: YES score one in the "cons" column for the Belt.

Yes, this is a problem. I have two Torch 9810s and one works great except the Trackpad doesn't work. Ok, that's not great... but what does it tell you that even WITH the risk of hardware failure there are still lots of people who want a Trackpad and that the number of active users of BlackBerry devices having devices WITH a Trackpad outnumbers BlackBerry devices that don't have Trackpads by some might say 10 to 1, more realistically 5 to one... and that there are orders of magnitudes more users of devices with hardware buttons (almost all Android and iOS devices have at least a hardware "home" button) than there are "wave of the future" full gesture devices. I acknowledge that Android and iOS designers and developers are stealing great gesture ideas from BlackBerry and introducing them into Android and iOS... so unless BlackBerry can bring something unique to the table, probably within 2 years many of the best features of BB10 will be duplicated on Android and iOS, driving BB further into irrelevance (check the launch screen "Cover" on Android if you want a taste of things to come).

Hardware failure is a problem that should be solved, but I believe lots would risk it (because they do when they buy an iPhone or Android... you can't even use an iPhone if the home button is broken).

[RyanGermann]

Yes. Developers.

BlackBerry already has a problem attracting developers to the platform. This will only make their job harder than it is (having to develop for Z10 and Z3 and then changing their apps for the Q10.

Throw a track pad in there? You have a bigger problem.

Why? If the Belt was integrated in a way that simulates gestures there would be zero impact.

For one, the "hang up call" button. On BBOS, while on a call if you press the rightmost Belt button, the call is ended.

Suppose BB10 had a belt and a "call end" button.

Push the button and the following on-screen gestures / presses are sent:

Swipe up (return to home screen)
virtual press of on-screen "phone handset" button to get to the "phone app"
virtual press of "end call" button.

Or just have the button trigger the "end call" API in the OS.

No impact on developers here at all.

[JWWDUKE]

(Not sure if you're a Q user or not). Again we're not talking about ALL devices having the Belt.

So, I can assume you think the Belt would be fine, so long as it doesn't reduce screen size and otherwise cause problems for existing BB10 customers?

I think the belt was fine and great with OS 7. I loved it on my Bold 9900. But I just do not see the benefit of adding it to BB10.




If BlackBerry were to produce a device very much like the Q10 but one centimetre longer and having the Belt between the keyboard and the touchscreen, and should that device sell very well, would you think that was good or bad?

If they make a phone that sells well it would be fantastic. I don't believe a larger, belted Q will sell any differently than the current Q. Changing their design in such as drastic way would likely stir up even more negative press. The media would be saying " blackberry grasping at straws and going back to old school designs" and "BlackBerry gives up on new technology".





You may not think the device would sell well, which is in itself a good reason for BlackBerry to not do this... but given that NONE of the BB10 devices have "sold well" by any fair assessment, is sticking with the current device strategy, erm, wise?

The dropping of BlackBerry sales is because of the lack of marketing, lack of the top apps, and the stumble of BlackBerry 10 out of the gate(Z10 reboots) that created negative press. They needed perfection from the start and they did not achieve that.

Saying all that, I have no idea what will really help. Maybe the belt would bring back old BlackBerry users that had jumped ship before BB10 came out. It might remind them of the love they once had with keyboards.


I think big touch screens(4.5-5.5") along with the very best and newest hardware and top notch marketing will save BlackBerry In the consumer space. There is no denying that the overall mobile market has spoken, and touchscreen super phones are what almost everybody wants.

Maybe a belted, larger Q will help BlackBerry hold onto their business customers.

Z10 10.2.1.1055

[belfastdispatcher]

[QUOTE=coldRooster;10046754]

The pinch to zoom is slow

Pinch to zoom is as fast you can pinch to zoom. I don't understand. Maybe you should pinch faster.

Posted via my beautiful Z10

Try doing it with one hand.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

[RyanGermann]

I think this will be good business decision for BBRY as i have a reason to upgrade to OS10 after this. When my 9800 broke early this month im not upgrade to OS10 instead to 9720 because i just need the communication functionalities offered by legacy devices. If i need app i have iPad for it.

Let BBRY release few more choices of their device since this is their main business. They are not Samsung which have also washing machine in their line up. Or Apple which also have desktop in their line up.

Nokia and samsung still releasing their feature phone so why not BBRY release their OS7 phone and treat them as their feature phone too.

Sorry for my bad english.

First, on behalf of all monolingual English speakers I apologize to YOU for feeling that you have to apologize to us for not being a native English speaker: your English is very good, I'm sure everyone can understand what you are saying.

The only thing I might disagree with or maybe I misunderstand is that BlackBerry should continue to release new OS7 devices. I think what is really needed is that they need to make BB10 have all the same capabilities as BBOS did, and of course it would have more like being able to run BB10 and Android apps... but in order to duplicate most of the functionality of BBOS, the Belt would be needed. So I'm a strong believer in BB10 being the way forward, but also think there was lots to like about BBOS and the designers and developers of BB10 need to re-integrate as many features as possible as soon as possible, with as few compromises as possible.

That said: if BB can make more money selling BB7 devices, they shouldn't rule that out either... but I think a BB10 device with all the features of BBOS would be as good if not better for both the customer and for BlackBerry.

[goUSAFblue]

Maybe BlackBerry is just trying to attract users that love the trackpad. They already have phones like the Z series and Q5 and Q10 that attract users that love the gestures centered controls.

Posted via CB10

[thurask]

[QUOTE=belfastdispatcher;10047048]

Try doing it with one hand.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

Thumb and index, perch phone on little, ring and middle fingers. Pinch to zoom still works.

Posted via CB10