06-12-16 12:52 AM
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  1. keliew's Avatar
    You lose precious screen space with PKB. But how the Passport dealt with it isn't bad...

    Working wide can be the future...if done right.

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    06-09-16 03:48 PM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    You lose precious screen space with PKB. But how the Passport dealt with it isn't bad...

    Working wide can be the future...if done right.

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    The Passport has a very wide screen and yet only measures 4.5 inches on a diagonal. The new Rome should have a screen that measures about 4.3 inches approx. yet the device itself will have better ergonomics. The weight distribution is important. The new device can not be too top heavy.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 06-09-16 at 08:18 PM.
    nycspaces. likes this.
    06-09-16 04:17 PM
  3. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    In MY particular case it IS true. Marketing or not. Your opinion, or not. My Z30 stands ready for media consumption. That's literally ALL I use it for. That doesn't mean anyone else agrees. That's just a simple fact of MY particular use case. Imply I'm ignorant, backward, or any other condescending implication you can dream up but you cannot change the fact that I daily get most real WORK done on my PKB Classic & 9900.

    I am NOT alone. MOST of BlackBerry's current userbase still uses PKB. I readily concede we are a minority of smartphone users but that doesn't inherently make pkb irrelevant. Like any niche product, some of us are willing to pay a premium for a GOOD 9900 patterned modern smartphone. Enough to sustain a niche? I don't know any more than YOU know.

    I do know that some of us predicted toolbeltless Q10's failure and received "condescending implications" for our effort. Some of us predicted oversized Classic's failure and received "condescending implications" for our effort. Don't even get me started on Priv.

    If you want to know why legacy users don't migrate, why not listen to what legacy users are saying? Instead of just assuming we're too "ignorant & backward" to know what we like. ??? Successful legacy migration MIGHT have provided enough critical mass to jump start BB10's ecosystem. BB arrogantly abandoned us like mutant curs. The rest is history.

    Unfortunately, SOME of us have WORK to do. My work, today, will be done using my pkb 9900 and PassPort. Your work will be done using whatever is best for you. No two humans are identical and no single tool is best for ALL. A niche potential for an astute marketer. Unfortunately, that probably won't include BB.
    +1, he gets it

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    06-09-16 07:29 PM
  4. donnation's Avatar
    In MY particular case it IS true. Marketing or not. Your opinion, or not. My Z30 stands ready for media consumption. That's literally ALL I use it for. That doesn't mean anyone else agrees. That's just a simple fact of MY particular use case. Imply I'm ignorant, backward, or any other condescending implication you can dream up but you cannot change the fact that I daily get most real WORK done on my PKB Classic & 9900.

    I am NOT alone. MOST of BlackBerry's current userbase still uses PKB. I readily concede we are a minority of smartphone users but that doesn't inherently make pkb irrelevant. Like any niche product, some of us are willing to pay a premium for a GOOD 9900 patterned modern smartphone. Enough to sustain a niche? I don't know any more than YOU know.

    I do know that some of us predicted toolbeltless Q10's failure and received "condescending implications" for our effort. Some of us predicted oversized Classic's failure and received "condescending implications" for our effort. Don't even get me started on Priv.

    If you want to know why legacy users don't migrate, why not listen to what legacy users are saying? Instead of just assuming we're too "ignorant & backward" to know what we like. ??? Successful legacy migration MIGHT have provided enough critical mass to jump start BB10's ecosystem. BB arrogantly abandoned us like mutant curs. The rest is history.

    Unfortunately, SOME of us have WORK to do. My work, today, will be done using my pkb 9900 and PassPort. Your work will be done using whatever is best for you. No two humans are identical and no single tool is best for ALL. A niche potential for an astute marketer. Unfortunately, that probably won't include BB.
    All great points until that nonsense in bold. So close.
    TgeekB likes this.
    06-09-16 07:38 PM
  5. anon(1723145)'s Avatar
    Ahhhh... But there was a time when Android made a PKB phone. In fact, the first Google phone had a PKB.
    Why is there no (other) Android with PKB?-google-g1-phone-keyboard.jpg

    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.858
    06-09-16 08:15 PM
  6. georgeeipi's Avatar
    The study of Ergonomics has demonstrated over many years that humans perform text entry better with tactile feedback. Desk top computers still have keyboards for this reason. So clearly PKBs have been dropped from cell phones for reasons other than efficiency. So the question is why that has happened, and to determine the size of the nieche market for those that want the efficiency.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    dmlis likes this.
    06-09-16 09:09 PM
  7. donnation's Avatar
    The study of Ergonomics has demonstrated over many years that humans perform text entry better with tactile feedback. Desk top computers still have keyboards for this reason. So clearly PKBs have been dropped from cell phones for reasons other than efficiency. So the question is why that has happened, and to determine the size of the nieche market for those that want the efficiency.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    I guess if you used your phone laying down on a flat surface when you type that would be true.
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    06-09-16 09:12 PM
  8. georgeeipi's Avatar
    Tactile feedback is only beneficial in a horizontal position. That's an interesting take on ergonomics.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    dmlis likes this.
    06-09-16 09:19 PM
  9. anon(1723145)'s Avatar
    So clearly PKBs have been dropped from cell phones for reasons other than efficiency.
    My guess is when Apple began designing the first iPhone they knew PKB's were more efficient but didn't want to be like other devices (especially BlackBerry). They revolutionized the market and PBK's got left behind.

    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.858
    06-09-16 09:23 PM
  10. gillespascoucou's Avatar
    It is not because Priv doesn't sell well that proves that PKB aren't popular anymore. The BB Priv is a bad marketed device (low specs and laggy unfinished OS at a high price). Blackberry is still making bad marketing choice and I really can't understand why. Are they dumb (maybe too provocative but true).

    If they made a good spec'ed phone (the Hamburg is rumored to sport the poor SD617 ; what a stubborn brand !) they could revive PKB. As a pro, i personally love the Q10 and Classic (perfect size) but they're dead and lacking apps....
    06-09-16 10:03 PM
  11. donnation's Avatar
    Tactile feedback is only beneficial in a horizontal position. That's an interesting take on ergonomics.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    That's not what I said. Tactile feedback is great but you are talking about two completely different forms of typing because of the position of the keyboard. One is suited for a vkb and one is not.
    06-09-16 10:28 PM
  12. pooyam's Avatar
    Yeah, 'it's the corporations, dude!' They're brainwashing the public into buying superior technology. . . by the billion$.

    Posted via CB10
    No not the corporations "dude". It's actually the people who act like sheep and expect you to do the same.
    Not all. But too many.
    06-09-16 11:29 PM
  13. georgeeipi's Avatar
    That's not what I said. Tactile feedback is great but you are talking about two completely different forms of typing because of the position of the keyboard. One is suited for a vkb and one is not.
    You are still proposing an idiosyncratic take on Ergonomics. Tactile feedback removes the need for visual (slow) feedback from typing. If one has to look at their fingers when entering text (regardless of position) then the process will be slower and more error prone, and it takes the visual channels away from other tasks.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    pooyam and dmlis like this.
    06-09-16 11:33 PM
  14. pooyam's Avatar
    If it makes you feel better to believe that large all touch screens are a fashion statement or a fad...

    For me it's about how I use my phone, and they keyboard just isn't needed all that much. A virtual one meets my needs, and in fact I'm much more productive than I was with my old 9650. Now maybe on the newer PKB keyboard that have the flick to type option I'd be just as good. But I use mine to view other content way to much to give up the screen. Actually wanted to try the PRIV... but took to long to come to Verizon and it's still not in the list of available devices that my company puts out.
    And all due respect to your preference. I'm not saying it's everyone is doing it for the show off, especially today. But in the early days it was a different story.

    I knew too many people though who didn't even know how to use the media features or didn't really use them. Or very heavy text message users. Those days prediction wasn't that good either, but having a slightly out of fad yet more productive device wasn't an option for them.
    06-09-16 11:42 PM
  15. keliew's Avatar
    Screen space is so important...that's why huge phones like Note makes some good waves, till someone realise it can't fit in their pockets...
    06-10-16 12:51 AM
  16. werkregen's Avatar
    When I switched to Nexus 5 from the iPhone 4, I saw a huge improvement in typing speed on the VKB, due to the larger screen. Then I started using Swype and I could "type" one handed almost as fast as touch-typing. When I switched to the Classic, I didn't see a significant improvement in typing speed, but I did like the feel of it more.

    With the PRIV, I type more on the VKB because I don't like the PKB and I found that I can type really fast on it. I go back and forth with the Classic but I can't see any difference in typing speed between the 2.

    IMO, with current screen sizes, there's no real advantage of a PKB over a VKB except for the feel factor. Furthermore, you have to give up screen size and phone thickness to accomodate the PKB. The market for such devices is so small, it's probably not worth the development cost for manufacturers, especially since their profit margin for current devices is small.
    donnation likes this.
    06-10-16 02:13 AM
  17. donnation's Avatar
    You are still proposing an idiosyncratic take on Ergonomics. Tactile feedback removes the need for visual (slow) feedback from typing. If one has to look at their fingers when entering text (regardless of position) then the process will be slower and more error prone, and it takes the visual channels away from other tasks.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Yeah I'm sorry but I disagree and we can leave it at that because we will just go around in circles.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and Tsepz_GP like this.
    06-10-16 03:50 AM
  18. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    The study of Ergonomics has demonstrated over many years that humans perform text entry better with tactile feedback.
    [citation very much needed]
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    06-10-16 07:08 AM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Most phone users have never used a PKB and never will. BlackBerry must get back former owners and go from there. They could advertise just the PKB. They need better pricing in places like Indonesia.

    Posted via CB10
    06-10-16 08:55 AM
  20. NG888's Avatar
    just drop the keyboard and move on, if this was a USP or consumers or enterprises wanted it, it would have shown.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    06-10-16 09:22 AM
  21. georgeeipi's Avatar
    [citation very much needed]
    If you want an intro on the principles have a look at 'touch screens' in Wikipedia. They describe the fundamental accuracy problems associated with touch screens as well as attempts to use haptic interfaces to improve pointing accuracy. If you want more why not look at an ergonomics textbook that covers HCI.
    06-10-16 10:08 AM
  22. georgeeipi's Avatar
    Yeah I'm sorry but I disagree and we can leave it at that because we will just go around in circles.
    The old 'let's agree to disagree ' approach when confronted by the obvious? Think about it next time you type a text message on a touch screen while you stare at your finger.
    06-10-16 10:10 AM
  23. donnation's Avatar
    The old 'let's agree to disagree ' approach when confronted by the obvious? Think about it next time you type a text message on a touch screen while you stare at your finger.
    Lol yes, an expected response from a older generation that is unable to cope with changing technology (hence the 9900). Keep up the great work grandpa!!
    06-10-16 10:12 AM
  24. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    If you want an intro on the principles have a look at 'touch screens' in Wikipedia. They describe the fundamental accuracy problems associated with touch screens as well as attempts to use haptic interfaces to improve pointing accuracy. If you want more why not look at an ergonomics textbook that covers HCI.
    Or, I have an idea, why don't you do your own actual research and present it with your argument instead of putting forth vague generalities.
    06-10-16 10:14 AM
  25. georgeeipi's Avatar
    Or, I have an idea, why don't you do your own actual research and present it with your argument instead of putting forth vague generalities.
    A more specific citation,

    https://engineering.purdue.edu/~hong...Tan_HS2014.pdf

    But of course you can choose to ignore fundamental principles and experiments and point to minor discrepancies and demand yet another experiment.
    06-10-16 10:40 AM
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