[dare4more]

why the heck blackberry supports wifi where we cant use most of the BB applications like windows live messenger - twitter - facebook - yahoo - google talk ?? etc...unless we subscribe for BIS which cost 40$ in my country region !!!!!!!!

[K Bear]

Not all apps rely on a BIS/BES connection. Some apps can be used via WiFi. If you use your WAP browser, you can surf the web via WiFi.

[Gnufsh]

You can also use BIS over wifi and not use data from your plan (good for people who don't have unlimited data). It can also be faster than the network. Also, when I visit my mom who lives in an area without cell service, I can still email and bbm and whatnot.

[Motorcycle Mama]

As noted, BlackBerry devices have WiFi to SUPPLEMENT the data service over the carrier network. Not to replace the need for a data plan.

You can use WiFi to access data in areas where you aren't getting a good carrier network signal and to reduce the use of your data allotment on your data plan.

BlackBerry devices work differently from other devices. Most data services require an active BlackBerry Data Plan even over WiFi.

Note that the OP is looking for a free IM service without a BlackBerry Data Plan.

[TheScionicMan]

WIFI adds a secondary means of communicating data when you are unable to get a cellular signal. It wasn't designed to be the primary method of data connection.

Also, the carrier subsidies on the phones are calculated with a expectation of voice and data plans. If the price was based on what they'll recoup with a voice-only plan, they would cut the subsidy and the phone would be too expensive for most people that don't want to pay for data.

[Pete6]

Because you most likely got your phone from a carrier. They subsidised it to about 50% of its true cost. Carriers make their money by selling network minutes and data megabytes.

Since this is their core business, can you really blame them for not allowing you to circumvent their network simply for your convenience.

WiFi is there, as has alreadty been said, as a secondary (and fast) communications channel for a number of programs and functions when it is available but, the BIS channel remains the prime data path.

[theitfactor]

If you're so displeased with how much data costs in your country, then a BB is not for you.

[TheScionicMan]

I've been playing around with the Google Voice app today on a WIFI only berry and the SMS works great for free. My daughter's been hounding me for a phone so she can text her friends, but she's not getting one until the start of the next school year. Now she can text from home. I actually added GVoice to their iPod Touch, too. If someone tries to call her phone #, it goes to our home phone. Not sure if its available for the OP's region, but it might be worth looking into.

[_StephenBB81]

Please review Mobile Voice System

BlackBerry - Mobile Voice System - BlackBerry MVS for Unified Communication

THIS is a reason to have wifi on devices,
in addition to supplementing data plans and allowing access to data when in underground structures or areas without mobile coverage.

[dare4more]

cant i get a data plan with 0 mega bites download? (with a less cost) ???? then in this case ill be opening internet on my wifi network for unlimited access (useimg all the services ??? (instead of the bis service which allow me to download 100 mb per month)

blackberry should support a data plan with zero mega bites download which cost 10% of the BIS service. in this case all the people who has a wireless connection can use all the blackberry services .

i hope u got me..
cheers

[Pete6]

cant i get a data plan with 0 mega bites download? (with a less cost) ???? then in this case ill be opening internet on my wifi network for unlimited access (useimg all the services ??? (instead of the bis service which allow me to download 100 mb per month)

blackberry should support a data plan with zero mega bites download which cost 10% of the BIS service. in this case all the people who has a wireless connection can use all the blackberry services .

i hope u got me..
cheers

1). A data plan with 0 megabytes is no data plan. The carrier makes no money on this so what incentive does he have to sell you a subsidised phone and then make no money on the data plan? This is not going to happen.

2). RIM (who make BlackBerrys) sell all their phones through carriers. They are pretty much their ONLY customers. The BIS service, whilst a RIM product is run entirely by individual carriers. The carrier can set the cost per month and the amount of data available entirely at its own discresion. Again, this has nothing to do with RIM or the BlackBerry phone.

I have two data plans on two different phones. One is my main contract and I have 600 minutes/month in calls, unlimited SMS, fair use unlimited BIS data for $35 /month but I paid full price for the phone. This is with O2 SIMplicity (SIM only) in the UK.

My spare phone in the car is with a different carrier and it is pre-paid for calls and the fair use unlimited BIS plan is $7.50 month and tis is with Orange UK. Again I owned the phone.

Both plans are cancellable on 1 month notice. I wish the US had such good deals.

3). It seems to be you that does not "get it.". Do not blame RIM/BlackBerry for for pricing and products that have nothing to do with them.

[Motorcycle Mama]

Get the iPhone. It will do what you want.

[dare4more]

Get the iPhone. It will do what you want.

blackberry is still better at least we dont have to buy itunes to download applications :P and still we have bluetouth

[Mr One 2]

blackberry is still better at least we dont have to buy itunes to download applications :P and still we have bluetouth

Than get a droid!!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[luqman24]

blackberry is still better at least we dont have to buy itunes to download applications :P and still we have bluetouth

You don't have to buy iTunes to download apps, there is a free version. Not defending Motorcycle Mama's comment but just saying.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[dare4more]

You don't have to buy iTunes to download apps, there is a free version. Not defending Motorcycle Mama's comment but just saying.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

ohh realyy , then can u tell me how to install msn on iphone ??? a family member has one and he dont know how to install it

[Xopher]

What you are paying for with BIS is the connection to RIM's servers. Native apps like BBM, Twitter, Facebook, and their IM applications all go through RIM's NOC. Push notifications (email, BBM, IM...) are sent to your PIN (instead of an IP address). The PIN has to be registered with RIM, which is part of the fee. It's not just about having data access.

There are other apps, like IM+, BeeJive, Opera Mini, that can be used within BIS. You'll still need some sort of data access (WAP, Wifi), but they will work. If all you are looking for is IM capabilities, then you'll need to go with a 3rd party IM solution.

[Culex316]

ohh realyy , then can u tell me how to install msn on iphone ??? a family member has one and he dont know how to install it

Sounds like a third-party app such as BeeJive is what you're looking for.

RIM's native MSN Messenger, Yahoo, Facebook etc apps all require BIS connectivity to work.

[blaisedinsd]

There is really no reason for it.

If the the blackberry worked over wi-fi with no service it's a more valuable device.

My android phone works completely fine over wi-fi with no service.

Say some one wants to stay connected to BBM over wifi....wouldn't it benefit RIM to make this possible? Anything to make people wanted to buy their devices is a good thing.

RIM makes money by selling hardware, whether or not that hardware has cell phone service aint important. Heck the Carrier doesn't care either, they simply want you to be locked in to a contract.

Wi-fi enables the carrier to have more capacity on their network....

The only issue is if RIM is worried about their capacity...Maybe they should simply offer a wi-fi sucbscription service. Wouldn't it be nice for them to get a little slice of the service pie cutting out the middle man? Wi-Fi is so prevalent these days it makes a little bit of sense.

[dare4more]

There is really no reason for it.

If the the blackberry worked over wi-fi with no service it's a more valuable device.

My android phone works completely fine over wi-fi with no service.

Say some one wants to stay connected to BBM over wifi....wouldn't it benefit RIM to make this possible? Anything to make people wanted to buy their devices is a good thing.

RIM makes money by selling hardware, whether or not that hardware has cell phone service aint important. Heck the Carrier doesn't care either, they simply want you to be locked in to a contract.

Wi-fi enables the carrier to have more capacity on their network....

The only issue is if RIM is worried about their capacity...Maybe they should simply offer a wi-fi sucbscription service. Wouldn't it be nice for them to get a little slice of the service pie cutting out the middle man? Wi-Fi is so prevalent these days it makes a little bit of sense.

knowing that all the people who has blackberry and a home wireless network , cant pay for BIS and for their home network !!! just for msn to work over blackberry .. its not fair!!!!!!

[zwoof]

ohh realyy , then can u tell me how to install msn on iphone ??? a family member has one and he dont know how to install it

You download it free from the app store. Simple as that. And yes, iTunes is free. I only use iTunes as a source to get my apps and an interface between my pc and smartphone to transfer multimedia files and homemade ringtones.

As for your blackberry, I don't know of any smartphones that work without a data plan. If you just want msn, google etc.., why not get a netboook with wifi built-in? Then you can download Skype and make calls worlwide for practically nothing if wifi is the preferred connection of choice. That sounds more like what you're looking for.

[Motorcycle Mama]

There is really no reason for it.
If the the blackberry worked over wi-fi with no service it's a more valuable device.

My android phone works completely fine over wi-fi with no service.

Say some one wants to stay connected to BBM over wifi....wouldn't it benefit RIM to make this possible? Anything to make people wanted to buy their devices is a good thing.

RIM makes money by selling hardware, whether or not that hardware has cell phone service aint important. Heck the Carrier doesn't care either, they simply want you to be locked in to a contract.
Wi-fi enables the carrier to have more capacity on their network....

The only issue is if RIM is worried about their capacity...Maybe they should simply offer a wi-fi sucbscription service. Wouldn't it be nice for them to get a little slice of the service pie cutting out the middle man? Wi-Fi is so prevalent these days it makes a little bit of sense.

Sure there's a reason for it. And of course, the carriers care. And this is the reason ...

knowing that all the people who has blackberry and a home wireless network , cant pay for BIS and for their home network !!! just for msn to work over blackberry .. its not fair!!!!!!

[BBThemes]

There is really no reason for it.

If the the blackberry worked over wi-fi with no service it's a more valuable device.

My android phone works completely fine over wi-fi with no service.

Say some one wants to stay connected to BBM over wifi....wouldn't it benefit RIM to make this possible? Anything to make people wanted to buy their devices is a good thing.

RIM makes money by selling hardware, whether or not that hardware has cell phone service aint important. Heck the Carrier doesn't care either, they simply want you to be locked in to a contract.

Wi-fi enables the carrier to have more capacity on their network....

The only issue is if RIM is worried about their capacity...Maybe they should simply offer a wi-fi sucbscription service. Wouldn't it be nice for them to get a little slice of the service pie cutting out the middle man? Wi-Fi is so prevalent these days it makes a little bit of sense.

i kind of get your point, but your missing the `big picture`. RIM make probably a reasonable profit on handsets, nothing out of this world. however, their BIS (and BES) services provide a constant cashflow through their books, that is like golddust to any company, espacially in the current financial climate.

also lets say you dont have BIS so it just can use your normal web connection without you potentially knowing, ya walk away from your wifi, or it goes down and there you are on the web potentially facing a high cost if you dont have data on your carrier plan.

WIFI is (as previously mentioned) a supplementary service for a MOBILE device, not a primary.

[blaisedinsd]

Sure there's a reason for it. And of course, the carriers care. And this is the reason ...

I don't get your meaning.

I am with Verizon. BIS is exactly the same cost as any other smart phone data plan.

Verizon doesn't care if I operate a Blackberry with BIS or an Android device.

Do they make less money on BIS because RIM gets a slice? I don't know.

My android device works fine over Wi-Fi, it does everything it does when activated on verizon since I set it up to do calls and text with GV. Well I guess it doesn't get MMS. This makes it a nice device to have, even if I want to use my blackberry as my phone.

[_StephenBB81]

I don't get your meaning.

I am with Verizon. BIS is exactly the same cost as any other smart phone data plan.

Verizon doesn't care if I operate a Blackberry with BIS or an Android device.

Do they make less money on BIS because RIM gets a slice? I don't know.

My android device works fine over Wi-Fi, it does everything it does when activated on verizon since I set it up to do calls and text with GV. Well I guess it doesn't get MMS. This makes it a nice device to have, even if I want to use my blackberry as my phone.

a Blackberry uses approximately 1/5th the data that a comparable use Smartphone uses according to slides presented by RIM and unrefuted by other manufacturers. so Verizon even paying a slice of their service fees to RIM is still a head of the game because of the low data usage.

You can install Apps on your Blackberry that will not NEED a BIS, and have functionality, you just lose push email, and most of the Native applications of Blackberry,

you can't use an Android device without first having a gmail account, AND without allowing for Google to collect your information for marketing purposes. it's a toss up, if you don't want a data plan, but want access on line, Blackberry isn't for you, as it is the services that BIS provide that makes the Blackberry a socially attractive device.