02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Nearly every single product that has some app built for it it only on ios or Android. GoPro camera. Kwickset locks. Dish Network. Alarm systems, and on and on and on. People that buy a phone are not going to deal with (or even understand) a sideload. Apps are a major issue.
    Have you tested them by sideloading them on BB10?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 11:46 AM
  2. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I do not think so.
    The real reason for the poor sales of the BB10 line is because RIM/BBRY forgot what was making them afloat, things that were making a BB a BB.
    When that's gone, and they came up with the BB10 so proudly, they made it just another me-too, an iPhone look-a-like.
    If RIM/BBRY grasped this point (BB differentiators) early on, and built their functionalities/UI on the old BBOS (with the new BB10 platform), they would not have been where they are now.
    If I can over-simplify the situation, the only thing the legacies were missing was a decent browser. I recognize that the BBOS platform has its share of quirks and worts, and was nearing the end of life, and am all for the newer platform (not necessarily newer functionalities or programming). But they could have offered something like a transitional Bold, while they were developing the BB10 devices. Not a new device for the sake of the newness.
    They were so bogged down into the idea of catching up the competitions, specifically being obsessed in revenging the iPhone, they forgot what was making the BB different from others, completely scrapping the legacy features, and started fresh, when they were not supposed to have that much time before they got into a real trouble.
    Now, apparently, they recognized this problem, and are trying to add/catch up some tried and proven features. But it's soooo slow. I only hope John Chen has enough time to succeed.
    I'm not the only one that thinks BB10 is far superior to iOS.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 11:47 AM
  3. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Nearly every single product that has some app built for it it only on ios or Android. GoPro camera. Kwickset locks. Dish Network. Alarm systems, and on and on and on. People that buy a phone are not going to deal with (or even understand) a sideload. Apps are a major issue.
    And once 10.2.1 is released what will be the next excuse? Apks can be directly installed to the OS.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 11:49 AM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    No it isn't. The app problem is not as bad as people say. Might be worse for some countries but in Canada all the banks and local apps are mostly here. The rest can sideloaded. Marketing is the real reason that this product isn't taking off.


    First of all, I'm not picking only on you, Dave. :P


    But yanno, everyone here on every side of the debate should take a step back for a minute and look at how silly their polarized opinions are.

    "Not as bad as people say". "Mine's great, yours is horrible".

    Opinions vary, people have different priorities.

    It's true that in Canada, there are a lot more dedicated BB10 banking apps. But unfortunately, Canada seems to be an anomaly in that way. Neither am I personally very comfy with the idea of sideloading Android banking apps.

    Also - while marketing definitely has been a problem for sure, there actually have been a lot of QA flaws with BB10 and a lot of missed feature targets. Those things did not help. The random restart thing that plagued the platform for the better part of a year was a particularly nasty example of that.

    I definitely and unquestionably prefer BB10 to Legacy BBOS, but I also still like some of the features on BBOS too. It seems that the company is starting to listen to people on some of those things, and actually has brought some of them back. (Not always the ones *I* wanted, and not always particularly well-implemented IMHO, but it seems a good sign.)
    12-21-13 11:55 AM
  5. xanadome's Avatar
    I'm not the only one that thinks BB10 is far superior to iOS.
    I never said iOS is far superior to BB10.
    I am discussing only in terms of BBOS vs. BB10 at this very junction, not BB vs. Apple.
    As I said before, I really do not know/care, among many offerings in the market, which one is better than the others, and I am not interested in knowing it. While I am a long time Apple user and do admire their products, I am not a fanboy of Apple. I buy what is good for me, be it a BB or a PC laptop etc.

    You are like the BBRY management. So much competitive emotion against Apple, eh? :-).
    12-21-13 11:55 AM
  6. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I never said iOS is far superior to BB10.
    I am discussing only in terms of BBOS vs. BB10 at this very junction, not BB vs. Apple.
    As I said before, I really do not know/care, among many offerings in the market, which one is better than the others, and I am not interested in knowing it. While I am a long time Apple user and do admire their products, I am not a fanboy of Apple. I buy what is good for me, be it a BB or a PC laptop etc.

    You are like the BBRY management. So much competitive emotion against Apple, eh? :-).
    Well maybe because I left Apple? There is some hate towards it. The same way someone might of left legacy BlackBerry and hates it.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 11:58 AM
  7. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Have you tested them by sideloading them on BB10?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    The point is that they are NOT available for BB, like so many other apps, and thus, there IS a major, major app problem. People don't know what side-loading is, let alone want to deal with doing it. Until you simply download and install nearly any app out there, the app problem is real.
    12-21-13 11:59 AM
  8. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    First of all, I'm not picking only on you, Dave. :P


    But yanno, everyone here on every side of the debate should take a step back for a minute and look at how silly their polarized opinions are.

    "Not as bad as people say". "Mine's great, yours is horrible".

    Opinions vary, people have different priorities.

    It's true that in Canada, there are a lot more dedicated BB10 banking apps. But unfortunately, Canada seems to be an anomaly in that way. Neither am I personally very comfy with the idea of sideloading Android banking apps.

    Also - while marketing definitely has been a problem for sure, there actually have been a lot of QA flaws with BB10 and a lot of missed feature targets. Those things did not help. The random restart thing that plagued the platform for the better part of a year was a particularly nasty example of that.

    I definitely and unquestionably prefer BB10 to Legacy BBOS, but I also still like some of the features on BBOS too. It seems that the company is starting to listen to people on some of those things, and actually has brought some of them back. (Not always the ones *I* wanted, and not always particularly well-implemented IMHO, but it seems a good sign.)
    The random restarts was also a anomaly not everyone experienced it. And I doubt even 20% had this problem.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 11:59 AM
  9. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Without BB10 I would not have a BlackBerry.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    Same goes for me, but we should ignore our own preferences for a moment there.

    99% of the market wants a phone that doesn't perform like a BBOS device...
    It's a no-brainer, looking at BB10 as a business decision from BlackBerry,
    to try to tap into that market.

    Posted via CB10
    chalx likes this.
    12-21-13 12:01 PM
  10. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    The point is that they are NOT available for BB, like so many other apps, and thus, there IS a major, major app problem. People don't know what side-loading is, let alone want to deal with doing it. Until you simply download and install nearly any app out there, the app problem is real.
    10.2.1 fixes that problem. It's bound to be released in January. With the exception of the US of course. Cause you know those amazing carriers.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 12:01 PM
  11. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Same goes for me, but we should ignore our own preferences for a moment there.

    99% of the market wants a phone that doesn't perform like a BBOS device...
    It's a no-brainer, looking at BB10 as a business decision from BlackBerry,
    to try to tap into that market.

    Posted via CB10
    And you know what ? The general population believe BB10 is just like the old BlackBerry. Why do people deny that this is a marketing problem ? Oh and have you ever heard BlackBerry make a ad that demonstrates that BB10 can play android apps??

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 12:03 PM
  12. xanadome's Avatar
    Well maybe because I left Apple? There is some hate towards it. The same way someone might of left legacy BlackBerry and hates it.
    OK, fair enough. But I suggest that you do not invest too much of your emotion into things like cell phone ;-).
    12-21-13 12:03 PM
  13. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    OK, fair enough. But I suggest that you do not invest too much of your emotion into things like cell phone ;-).
    How is it any different to people attacking it? If anything it's more pathetic to come down here on Crackberry to push android and iOS

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    Omnitech likes this.
    12-21-13 12:04 PM
  14. redlightblinking's Avatar
    And once 10.2.1 is released what will be the next excuse? Apks can be directly installed to the OS.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    And.....where will people get these AP...whatsamajgs? "Uh, what's an APKAY? Is that in the app store"?

    See where this is going?

    Besides the fact that most carriers will take a year to roll that update out anyway.

    BUT, once they finally have a direct way to seamlessly download ANY APP they want, just like the other phones (perhaps in a year or so)......THEN WHAT? They need to explain why others should switch from another phone that is a similar rectangular piece of glass. They need to come up with a value proposition.....then actually demonstrate this through massive advertising.
    12-21-13 12:05 PM
  15. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    And.....where will people get these AP...whatsamajgs? "Uh, what's an APKAY? Is that in the app store"?

    See where this is going?

    Besides the fact that most carriers will take a year to roll that update out anyway.

    BUT, once they finally have a direct way to seamlessly download ANY APP they want, just like the other phones (perhaps in a year or so)......THEN WHAT? They need to explain why others should switch from another phone that is a similar rectangular piece of glass. They need to come up with a value proposition.....then actually demonstrate this through massive advertising.
    You can download these apks right off the select website.... if provided... find more excuses. And yea no shat. That's part of the marketing problem I'm talking im about. How many of these developers even attempted to post their apps on BBW?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 12:06 PM
  16. xanadome's Avatar
    How is it any different to people attacking it? If anything it's more pathetic to come down here on Crackberry to push android and iOS
    Dave, it does not bother me a bit :-). And I do not know how many people are actually coming down here just to attack the BB, although some might have strong opinion on their choice of devices. But I would never criticize someone else's choice of device. It's futile and provokes persecution complex ;-). But I understand what you feel.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    12-21-13 12:08 PM
  17. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Oh and have you ever heard BlackBerry make a ad that demonstrates that BB10 can play android apps??

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    Of course not. Because, officially...YOU CAN'T. You convert, and you sideload, etc. Before they can market something they need to have something to market. You think they are going to waste precious marketing ads that simply remind people how the only way to enjoy BB is via a workaround?
    bbq10l likes this.
    12-21-13 12:09 PM
  18. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Of course not. Because, officially...YOU CAN'T. You convert, and you sideload, etc. Before they can market something they need to have something to market. You think they are going to waste precious marketing ads that simply remind people how the only way to enjoy BB is via a workaround?
    Huh?? the android runtime? The converted android apps on BBW... this is all official...

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 12:11 PM
  19. darkehawke's Avatar
    You can download these apks right off the select website.... if provided... find more excuses. And yea no shat. That's part of the marketing problem I'm talking im about. How many of these developers even attempted to post their apps on BBW?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    I disagree here. Unless BlackBerry provides some kind of Apk market place I doubt more than 5% of users will actually download apks.
    But this is a discussion on the future so let's wait and see what the end result is before we start discussing whether it fixes any issues or not

    Posted via CB10
    12-21-13 12:11 PM
  20. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I disagree here. Unless BlackBerry provides some kind of Apk market place I doubt more than 5% of users will actually download apks.
    But this is a discussion on the future so let's wait and see what the end result is before we start discussing whether it fixes any issues or not

    Posted via CB10
    My hope is that Chen is smart enough to realize this and get the marketing team to do something about it.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 12:12 PM
  21. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I do not think so.
    The real reason for the poor sales of the BB10 line is because RIM/BBRY forgot what was making them afloat, things that were making a BB a BB.
    When that's gone, and they came up with the BB10 so proudly, they made it just another me-too, an iPhone look-a-like.
    If RIM/BBRY grasped this point (BB differentiators) early on, and built their functionalities/UI on the old BBOS (with the new BB10 platform), they would not have been where they are now.
    If I can over-simplify the situation, the only thing the legacies were missing was a decent browser. I recognize that the BBOS platform has its share of quirks and worts, and was nearing the end of life, and am all for the newer platform (not necessarily newer functionalities or programming). But they could have offered something like a transitional Bold, while they were developing the BB10 devices. Not a new device for the sake of the newness.
    They were so bogged down into the idea of catching up the competitions, specifically being obsessed in revenging the iPhone, they forgot what was making the BB different from others, completely scrapping the legacy features, and started fresh, when they were not supposed to have that much time before they got into a real trouble.
    Now, apparently, they recognized this problem, and are trying to add/catch up some tried and proven features. But it's soooo slow. I only hope John Chen has enough time to succeed.
    Your theory would hold true, if people wouldn't appreciate the iOS and Android experience that much more than the BBOS one.
    In terms of marketshare, BlackBerry already lost when BBOS 7 was introduced.
    And the more competitif the environment in the mobile space became, the clearer it was that BBOS and the way it handles things, just isn't what the consumer wants.

    From battery pulls, an abysmal camera, to hour glassing...
    BBOS is as unsuited for a modern smartphone as an OS ever could be.
    At least 99% of the market seem to see it that way.

    Posted via CB10
    12-21-13 12:12 PM
  22. redlightblinking's Avatar
    You can download these apks right off the select website.... if provided... find more excuses. And yea no shat. That's part of the marketing problem I'm talking im about. How many of these developers even attempted to post their apps on BBW?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    I don't need to "find exuses". The public already has. You can't tell the public that you want to buy your products that they must have a 2nd class experience in order to "enjoy" this phone that requires them to abandon their other phone that already has a seamless ecosystem.

    That's like blaming the public because they are too stupid to figure out how to hotwire the car you want to sell them.
    app_Developer and bbq10l like this.
    12-21-13 12:12 PM
  23. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I disagree here. Unless BlackBerry provides some kind of Apk market place I doubt more than 5% of users will actually download apks.
    But this is a discussion on the future so let's wait and see what the end result is before we start discussing whether it fixes any issues or not

    Posted via CB10
    The apk marketplace is BBW btw. Developers need to take all 5 mins of their time to convert the apk to bar.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 12:13 PM
  24. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Huh?? the android runtime? The converted android apps on BBW... this is all official...

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    IF they are converted. Who does this? The developer? The user? Does BBW have every single app that Itunes and Google play has? Get back to me when it does.
    12-21-13 12:14 PM
  25. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I don't need to "find exuses". The public already has. You can't tell the public that you want to buy your products that they must have a 2nd class experience in order to "enjoy" this phone that requires them to abandon their other phone that already has a seamless ecosystem.

    That's like blaming the public because they are too stupid to figure out how to hotwire the car you want to sell them.
    Downloading a apk off a website is difficult ?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 12:16 PM
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