02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    It's simple really. Between a decent, successful 2011 product and a lackluster/redundant, majorly botched 2013 product, consumers would prefer the former.

    Would you buy a Microsoft Kin? Or a Surface RT? Now take a step back and imagine if you were not a Blackberry fan. Would you consider a product that is a bigger botch than the Kin and the Surface and every other wacky, failed Microsoft tech product over the past 5 years COMBINED? (Based on the size of the write down, BB10 is now that big of a botch.) No way.

    BB10 now has a near insurmountable image barrier. Not only is it stigmatized by those out of the loop, it is stigmatized amongst those in the know. It will be difficult to convince consumers to buy this product.
    12-21-13 06:15 AM
  2. nuke99's Avatar
    maybe BIS, its much cheaper to operate BIS. cheaper to buy bb for business?

    As a business owner i rather they have OS 6 or 7 . a work phone behave like a work phone.
    12-21-13 06:29 AM
  3. lnichols's Avatar
    I think it's a question of trust. I have a bb os7. Do I want a z10 (or Z30)? Maybe yes. Can I afford one? Definitively. Am I going to spend a couple of $$$ on a phone that can be discontinued anytime...No. I have a torch 9860 it works well, but I'm not giving more money to blackberry and don't even get me started with my playbook fiasco.

    It's been knowed that Blackberry has to regain the confidence of their hardcore users. With the numbers I'm seeing, there's a lot of them that left the boat.

    Another factor is the resale value. If you buy a BB os7 device you're not loosing much when you are reselling itbut when I compare the results of the Z10 (which is 10 months old) I'm astonished.
    I only got $150 from my unlocked 9900 on ebay.

    Posted via CB10
    pipotobe likes this.
    12-21-13 06:32 AM
  4. lnichols's Avatar
    This legacy os was the master of communication and still is.
    BlackBerry 10 is good all round but does not stand out as a master of anything
    And it's overpriced

    Posted via CB10
    Depends on where you live and how they operate there. Bold 9900 was more expensive on T-Mobile in USA than the Z10 at launch and still is now $599 at last check. Plans cost the same dependending on how much data you want. Z10 has LTE, 9900 topped out at HSPA+. With the hub and gestures I can navigate the OS way faster in the Z10 then I could with my 9900 or any of my previous BlackBerry devices and I get faster and better as time goes on.

    Posted via CB10
    12-21-13 06:45 AM
  5. SEAWARRIOR's Avatar
    "Why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10?"

    'cuz my sig says it all...
    12-21-13 07:52 AM
  6. darkehawke's Avatar
    Depends on where you live and how they operate there. Bold 9900 was more expensive on T-Mobile in USA than the Z10 at launch and still is now $599 at last check. Plans cost the same dependending on how much data you want. Z10 has LTE, 9900 topped out at HSPA+. With the hub and gestures I can navigate the OS way faster in the Z10 then I could with my 9900 or any of my previous BlackBerry devices and I get faster and better as time goes on.

    Posted via CB10
    Oh yeah. The 9900 was only slightly less than the z10 at launch.
    The difference is that there are plenty of curves at affordable prices whereas BlackBerry 10 has nothing like that

    Posted via CB10
    12-21-13 07:56 AM
  7. pipotobe's Avatar
    I only got $150 from my unlocked 9900 on ebay.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes but how much time did you use it? If you had from the start (august 2011) you've had it for alittle more than 2 years. I always divide the amount paid by the numbers of years I use my electronics. I don't think you have lost money.

    My point is look at the resale value of the Z10 now. I'm seeing a lot of them on Kijiji being 'offered' for $150 to $200. That to me is a problem.
    12-21-13 08:08 AM
  8. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Because blackberry dropped the ball......not enough people can get hands on with bb10.....and ridiculous pricing.......

    Posted via CB10
    Right. Basically they didn't provide a compelling reason in terms of perceived value for switching to BB10. I have a bit of regret myself about getting a Q10 rather than a 9930. I had a specific reason, I would get better email connectivity with active sync, but there are workarounds for that.

    Although the initial pricing was very high at some point Verizon at least was charging significantly more for 9930s than Z10s. They were giving away the Z10s on contract. I still don't think that helps.
    12-21-13 08:10 AM
  9. Bishkin's Avatar
    Depends on where you live and how they operate there. Bold 9900 was more expensive on T-Mobile in USA than the Z10 at launch and still is now $599 at last check. Plans cost the same dependending on how much data you want. Z10 has LTE, 9900 topped out at HSPA+. With the hub and gestures I can navigate the OS way faster in the Z10 then I could with my 9900 or any of my previous BlackBerry devices and I get faster and better as time goes on.

    Posted via CB10
    for os7 users, how often do they navigate their phone when to them that device is just a tool and a good tool at communicating. I have a Z10 and I organized it to reduce gesturing. I don't see Z10 as neccessary ....
    12-21-13 09:09 AM
  10. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Lol sure... Better slowdowns and crashes.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    That wasn't a shot at os10( solid OS IMO). Os10 is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It doesn't excel at being your classic legacy device, nor does it excel at competing with iOS/android/Winmo from a consumer point of view.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
    12-21-13 09:53 AM
  11. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    That wasn't a shot at os10( solid OS IMO). Os10 is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It doesn't excel at being your classic legacy device, nor does it excel at competing with iOS/android/Winmo from a consumer point of view.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
    You say it doesnt excel at competing with iOS android winmo. Completely opposite opinion from me.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 10:19 AM
  12. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    So you're describing what you do when you say people don't like bis or bb7 was outdated or bis was antiquated. Somehow I think you haven't realised that.

    Posted via CB10
    You can continue your bickering with Omnitech soon, but in the meantime...

    When 99% of Smartphone users, either use an Apple iPhone or an Android (about an 20/80 split), while both don't offer BIS or BBOS 7 and both feature a newer OS than BBOS....
    Then it's not even worth talking about the popularity of BIS or the legacy OS anymore.
    In a mature and slowly but surely saturated market, after about 10 years of handsets with BBOS, the OS lost.
    In the current market paradigm, BlackBerry's importance is inexistant, be it BB10 or BBOS, outside of enterprises and governments.

    The only difference between the two operating systems, when we look at how the market acts, is that BBOS is about 10 years old and already failed.
    While BB10 isn't even out for one year on the market, and has about 1/3 of the sales, BlackBerry realised in the last quarters.

    It's also of note, that while the typical Curve costs something around 200$, the Z10 or Q10 cost about 600$ when they were introduced.
    Funnily enough, 200$ is 1/3 of 600$ and BB10 devices make out more or less than 1/3 of BlackBerry sales.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 and Omnitech like this.
    12-21-13 10:39 AM
  13. redlightblinking's Avatar
    BB0S outsells BB10 because, at this point, most BB buyers are already on BB to begin with. They are not new, and they know all the great things that their BBOS phone did, specifically their 9900, that you can no longer do on the new fancy, state of the art, latest and greatest BB10. It should be a massive wake up call to the programmers that they need to wedge in a few more lines of code to include various things they forgot to include, which BB users have had for years......like........

    Notification profiles on top
    envelope icons on top
    wifi names on top
    desktop apps for wx, calendar, etc (and ability to clear the screen of app logos to see the desktop)
    blinking green light!
    headless apps so we can get popups, wifi managers, etc
    and if course....BIS.

    Then, the hardware guys can work on a weekend and design a:
    set of charging contacts
    convenience key (who needs convenience anyway?)
    trackpad (I still use this at least once a day)

    At this point, nothing is faster to perform nearly any task, from making a phone call, to searching, banging out an email, to simply looking at the phone to see the status of a lot of things.....than on a 9900. Yea, it's small. Yea, you need to reboot sometimes. yea, the browser isn't great. But many people choose BB for speed and convenience, and a quick demo in the store (if you can find one anymore) and some quick reads from users will quickly confirm that some of those "power-user" advantages go away on BB10. For many BB faithful, BB10 is a horrible disappointment that BB has not acknowledged....at all. Thus, lots of BBOS outselling BB10.
    12-21-13 10:40 AM
  14. WES51's Avatar
    The 9900 costs more new than a z10 now. Significantly more.
    Why?
    Trackpad, the BlackBerry email advantage, better battery life, easy travelling, better reception, better keyboard arguably, better instant actions ie more responsive, better messaging capabilities ie multitasking inboxes and apps like viber, holster profiles, better led, better notifications and customisable alerts, better phone design, better speakers and speaker placement and more reliable BBM. I'm sure I missed some points out.
    Bb7 phones offer a BlackBerry advantage that people still value.
    There's very very little BlackBerry in bb10.
    So people stick with what they love until BlackBerry or someone else makes something they want more than bb7.

    Whoever thought bb10 phones would be what bb7 users expected in a mobile device needs to take a long hard look at themselves. And those belittling bb7 advantages as obsolete and outdated must have got a bit of a shock today.

    Posted via CB10
    +1000
    Awesome post.

    It becomes increasingly clear, that despite all the cheerleading OS10 is far from being popular with many many many many Blackberry enthusiast.

    Blackberry should take a note of that !!!

    AND

    ...bring back an updated OS7 type phone (OS7.xx or alilke)...

    ...WITH BIS AND TRACKPAD AND eMail on the phone NOT in the cloud.
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    12-21-13 10:42 AM
  15. mctapt's Avatar
    I think a large reason why os7 outsells os10 are the IT departments in the companies. I just talked to one IT in my company ( large insurance) and they told me they have not tested bes10 enough so they will stay on bes7 for the time being. Due to that, they give us Bold 9900s and Curves instead of Q10s.

    Posted with my amazing Z10
    12-21-13 10:57 AM
  16. xanadome's Avatar
    Lol sure... Better slowdowns and crashes.
    Sorry Dave, I am not picking on you, but you just hit my button :-).

    I use a 9900 as a daily driver, and when I talk about the BBOS/OS7, I mean the high end Bold line for business use, not a Curve etc. That pretty much eliminates the argument about the emerging market and all that.
    I have basically been a committed Apple user for over a quarter century, so the iPhone was my automatic/default/obligatory choice, whether it is better or worse than competition (I do not know the conclusion on this, and I am not interested in finding it out. I just know that the iPhone is a very usable device).
    Once I started using the Bold, I did find that it was an efficient communication device. It's a superb, no-nonsence, all-business and utilitarian business tool, and I like my mobile device that way. I also know its limitations, such as Java based platform and bloated software due to accumulated feature additions over the years etc (although RIM could/should have improved it easily, but probably could not do it at a reasonable cost, hence Foxconn).

    Now, typical complaints about the Bold line are slow, frequent crashes and all those familiar whining. I have none of those. Why? Because I came to a conclusion a long time ago, particularly after started using the Bold, that I do not expect everything from my mobile/handheld device. People try to use a modern smartphone almost as a do-everything, poor-man's tablet.
    This is why people are impressed by BB10, I suppose. If you use it for content consumption, i.e., browser etc., the poor performance of the Bold is so obvious, and you are impressed. But Bold was not designed for it, particularly for internet browsing. Speed difference is obvious. BB10's are fast, no hourglass, no crash, no nothing. People are impressed.
    I have never encountered these classic BBOS problems (well, yes, occasionally, when I pushed it too hard), simply because I do not use it for that purpose. For that, I bring out my iPhone. Sometimes, but very rarely, I got caught without carrying the iPhone, and had to deal with the slow Google search, or GPS location etc with the 9900.
    But lately, I am increasingly finding that I am not carrying iPhone any more (80% or even 90% of the time). If and when I need anything internet related, composing long texts, or need larger display (which is not too often), I skip the iPhone and my tablet or laptop is never far away from me. If I knew I will be driving more than half an hour, for example, I can throw my tablet in my car. If you are a prolific pornographic novel writer, game player on the move, or love watching streaming movie on a small screen etc (ridiculous to do so on a small screen, handheld device :-), then the likes of the iPhone is useful. Otherwise, all I need is my 9900, which is a very efficient email/text reader, PIM and yes, the phone, complete with pickup/hangup buttons. You can also load headless apps such as call blocker etc, which are very useful for a business device.
    For people like me, BB10, particularly in a current state, never attracts me. I do hope that BB10 as a modern platform with up-to-date hardware (something the Bold is missing) will someday catch up the Bold's functionality, complete with those "little moments of delight", I might buy it. I have absolutely nothing against BB10. As somebody said in this thread, I just do not find any compelling and urgent need to upgrade my 9900 to BB10 at the moment (this is from a man of incurable gadget freak, always needing the latest and the greatest :-) . And, folks, that's what almost killed BBRY.
    Last edited by xanadome; 12-21-13 at 11:17 AM.
    12-21-13 11:00 AM
  17. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    maybe BIS, its much cheaper to operate BIS. cheaper to buy bb for business?
    It's cheaper for me not to use BIS, that's why I think these comments are kind of funny.
    I do know that your statement holds true in some parts of the world, but I never paid less for my phone contract than I do now with my BB10 device.

    And I constantly use more than 2 GB of data.

    Yes but how much time did you use it? If you had from the start (august 2011) you've had it for alittle more than 2 years. I always divide the amount paid by the numbers of years I use my electronics. I don't think you have lost money.

    My point is look at the resale value of the Z10 now. I'm seeing a lot of them on Kijiji being 'offered' for $150 to $200. That to me is a problem.
    If the Z10 would retail for 200$ in every key market worldwide, then this would actually be beneficial for BlackBerry, considering the number of devices sold.
    That the resale value of certain BlackBerry products is inexistant, isn't something new though.

    Be it the Storm, the PlayBook or now the Z10.
    As an early adopter of BlackBerry products, one has a higher chance to lose a lot of value when you want to sell your devices.
    And this is what happens when BlackBerry overprices their devices, and the market later corrects that mistake.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    12-21-13 11:01 AM
  18. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Probably because OS7 is tried and tested and works better than 10.
    Sorry dude - I completely and utterly disagree with that. I *LEFT* BlackBerry for 18 months to go to iOS because I was so sick and tired of BlackBerry 7 freezing and crashing every day. I left because the browser didn't work, because the app experience was atrocious and it was full of glitches.

    Is BlackBerry 10 "perfect"? No. But it has been substantially more reliable for me than any of my BlackBerry 5, 6 and 7 devices.


    Simple things like downloading podcasts and copy & paste.
    \

    I listen to podcasts every day on my Z10 and copy and paste all the time.
    12-21-13 11:02 AM
  19. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Sorry dude - I completely and utterly disagree with that. I *LEFT* BlackBerry for 18 months to go to iOS because I was so sick and tired of BlackBerry 7 freezing and crashing every day. I left because the browser didn't work, because the app experience was atrocious and it was full of glitches.

    Is BlackBerry 10 "perfect"? No. But it has been substantially more reliable for me than any of my BlackBerry 5, 6 and 7 devices.


    \

    I listen to podcasts every day on my Z10 and copy and paste all the time.
    Without BB10 I would not have a BlackBerry.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 11:08 AM
  20. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    You say it doesnt excel at competing with iOS android winmo. Completely opposite opinion from me.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

    It simply isn't close in terms of apps and ecosystem. The OS itself is close to meaningless. I think, and this is consistent with sales, that the overall package - hardware, OS, ecosystem and apps - isn't competitive.
    12-21-13 11:12 AM
  21. vicky_235235's Avatar
    myt be yes!!!!!!!!!!many ppl dnt knw wat os10 is!! m a os7 user!! os10 ave never reachd to the hands of many users. it needs to be in market wid many users ..nd yh i agree i resist the change frm os7 to os10
    12-21-13 11:17 AM
  22. vicky_235235's Avatar
    the hell!!!blackberry thinks by introducin os10 dey ave reachd to anothr level!!lol lemme tel!! dey ave jus entered d market where dey c!!apple samsung nd many othrs r way ahead of dem!! os10 is jus beginin of new era of bb dey need to do a lot better!
    12-21-13 11:20 AM
  23. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    It simply isn't close in terms of apps and ecosystem. The OS itself is close to meaningless. I think, and this is consistent with sales, that the overall package - hardware, OS, ecosystem and apps - isn't competitive.
    No it isn't. The app problem is not as bad as people say. Might be worse for some countries but in Canada all the banks and local apps are mostly here. The rest can sideloaded. Marketing is the real reason that this product isn't taking off.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 11:23 AM
  24. redlightblinking's Avatar
    No it isn't. The app problem is not as bad as people say. Might be worse for some countries but in Canada all the banks and local apps are mostly here. The rest can sideloaded.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    Nearly every single product that has some app built for it it only on ios or Android. GoPro camera. Kwickset locks. Dish Network. Alarm systems, and on and on and on. People that buy a phone are not going to deal with (or even understand) a sideload. Apps are a major issue.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    12-21-13 11:40 AM
  25. xanadome's Avatar
    Marketing is the real reason that this product isn't taking off.
    I do not think so.
    The real reason for the poor sales of the BB10 line is because RIM/BBRY forgot what was making them afloat, things that were making a BB a BB.
    When that's gone, and they came up with the BB10 so proudly, they made it just another me-too, an iPhone look-a-like.
    If RIM/BBRY grasped this point (BB differentiators) early on, and built their functionalities/UI on the old BBOS (with the new BB10 platform), they would not have been where they are now.
    If I can over-simplify the situation, the only thing the legacies were missing was a decent browser. I recognize that the BBOS platform has its share of quirks and worts, and was nearing the end of life, and am all for the newer platform (not necessarily newer functionalities or programming). But they could have offered something like a transitional Bold, while they were developing the BB10 devices. Not a new device for the sake of the newness.
    They were so bogged down into the idea of catching up the competitions, specifically being obsessed in revenging the iPhone, they forgot what was making the BB different from others, completely scrapping the legacy features, and started fresh, when they were not supposed to have that much time before they got into a real trouble.
    Now, apparently, they recognized this problem, and are trying to add/catch up some tried and proven features. But it's soooo slow. I only hope John Chen has enough time to succeed.
    RyanGermann likes this.
    12-21-13 11:45 AM
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