02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Loool, okay, you can't know about Google Glass because you don't own one.. you can't know about Porsche Design p'9982 because you don't own one..

    Correct me if I'm wrong but natively the furthest it ever got was different led for different TYPES of stimulus (text, bbm email etc) it never got as far as contacts, so third party apps would still be desirable..

    If you read the brackets, I said 'however limited' from 10.0 to now, there's been an addition to the options concerning LED management..

    Stop looking at bb10 with legacy eyes and you'll see what an amazing device it is, the addition of legacy features (where/if possible) is just a bonus, if you cant see that then that's fine, the biggest single reason most legacy devices are still selling (a number which is DECLINING) is price and soon even that won't be enough.. I'll repeat, (as many have) selling millions doesn't mean anything, not only in light of the entire smart phone market, but also in light of the multi millions they used to sell..

    I would suggest that you raise some money, find some crazy investors, and make an offer to buy the legacy part of BlackBerry, go and make it a success prove everyone wrong and keep the devices you want alive

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    Normally I'd agree with you but considering I've used both a Z10 and a Q10, I think I can safely say I gave it a fair try, but both of them suffered from BIG email bugs that affected my work.

    Once I stop looking through the legacy eyes I will no longer be limited to a blackberry, everything else will be a potential option and many do a better job then BB10.


    Sure you can know a device by reading about it but you don't make a judgement on the platform based on a 4 year old model, many things have changed and improved in the meantime and he doesn't seem to know about it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-03-14 06:03 AM
  2. tinochiko's Avatar
    [QUOTE=belfastdispatcher;9953053]
    Normally I'd agree with you but considering I've used both a Z10 and a Q10, I think I can safely say I gave it a fair try, but both of them suffered from BIG email bugs that affected my work.
    Notwithstanding that the words in bold are subjective, i think i can safely assume that you're not the only one with your particular needs, and whilst at least one person on this thread has shared your view that bb10 was so rigid they chose to stick with their legacy device, there are also examples of individuals who welcomed BB10 as a relief from legacy. you decided that the problems where to major for you and that the costs outweighed the benefits, on your problems in particular i believe theres at least a whole page of individuals who tried to show you solutions which you shot down..

    Once I stop looking through the legacy eyes I will no longer be limited to a blackberry, everything else will be a potential option and many do a better job then BB10.
    You can look at any device with legacy expectations not just BB10 so they have always been options for you , i find it ironic that you would imply otherwise (your signature) and in previous posts you stated that for emails the other platforms are just as bad if not worse than BB10 so im not sure where youre going with this

    Sure you can know a device by reading about it but you don't make a judgement on the platform based on a 4 year old model, many things have changed and improved in the meantime and he doesn't seem to know about it.
    People make judgments on things they dont know about all the time, you did it at least once (reasoning behind i think it was either voda or virgins decision to sell only returned Z10s not brand new ones) , its like me saying you cant make any judgments anymore because you dont currently have a z10 , q10 , z30 running the latest firmware so you cant talk about bb10 being worse, the experience that you think you had is no longer relevant..

    what doesnt he know? you ve spoken enough abotu it that someone who didnt know a single thing about Legacy would probably come and invest in you if you decide you want to buy it
    02-03-14 06:29 AM
  3. Omnitech's Avatar
    Because he never owned a BB7 device, so he wouldn't know about it.

    Actually I did know about it, but it has little bearing on my opinion of the platform as it is a triviality. BeBuzz still does many things (even on legacy OS) that the native OS cannot do by itself.

    You just keep trying that failed game of trying to dismiss everything and anything I write simply because of some trivial issue that you try to work into something significant that it is not.

    And I will laugh at you every step of the way.
    02-03-14 08:44 AM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    I'm not sure we're on the same page here good buddy. When I the turn the screen off with the top edge button to use it again I either have to press the button again or swipe up the phone. It won't accept any input until I do one of those two things.

    As I wrote in the post you responded to, I suspect the most likely time that the "pocket dialing" occurs is when the screen has not yet reached timeout yet and is still actively accepting input.

    I simply cannot manually sleep the screen with the power button every single time I touch the phone. Not remotely feasible for me.

    I will check something like the time or see if I have new messages, then walk off somewhere with the phone in my hand. After 60 seconds the screen will timeout and I will have to either swipe up or press the power button to wake it up again. If it's asleep for a very long while it will go into password lock.

    But when I finish checking the time and start to walk off while the screen is still on, if I barely brush the phone icon with my knuckle and then brush across one of the speed-dials, I'm "pocket-dialing" again.

    What is stupid about this is it would be trivial to fix this issue. Just require a slightly longer press before a speed-dial activates, or possibly all you might have to do is enable that delay if it was preceded almost immediately with phone app activation. Because the likelihood of someone intentionally activating the phone app and within ~100ms activating a speed-dial would probably be very very slim indeed - people just don't react that fast. (Because among other things it takes time for the app to open so you can even see the buttons)

    All it takes is a little user interface thinking. BlackBerry seems to be missing that kind of thinking, a lot. (And occasionally they have good ideas. For example, picture password seems to be one of them.)
    johnnyuk likes this.
    02-03-14 08:55 AM
  5. WES51's Avatar
    Adding back custom notifications and APIs giving 3rd-party apps access to things they had access to in legacy OS is not very difficult. WAY easier than trying to "modernize" BBOS.

    The problem is that those were intentional decisions made by a company which was rather clueless about the value of those things. And it didn't help that they took a sort of "scorched earth" policy wrt to the legacy platform architecture and staff input, and had things apparently re-written from scratch by people that either had little input from the legacy OS designers and/or had little experience with building such types of products themselves, and were basically winging-it.

    As an example of a dumb regression, in BBOS the 3rd-party notification apps had fine control over the color of the famous BlackBerry LED notification indicator. In BB10 they can only set it to one of 8 specific colors.

    Clearly someone thought it was stupid to have anything more than that. Same thing with custom notification profiles. Same thing with seeing incoming Caller ID. Etc etc.

    Company executives have been quoted as saying that they were trying to make BB10 "simpler". They specifically tried to reduce the number of configurable options - taking Apple as a model - because the thinking was that BBOS was "too confusing" for the mass market. Instead what they did was alienate legacy users in those areas, while at the same time never actually achieving the smooth simplicity that Apple's UI designs are famous for.

    So they attempted to replicate someone else's model without actually having the expertise or understanding of how to achieve it, other than simplistic aping of a limited number of external characteristics. (ie "reduce the number of menus") That's an engineering/design failure.
    Thank You! And I really mean it.

    Although I did not know all these details, this was exactly my impression.

    I never realized you are aware of all this issues. Consequently I have hard time understanding why BB10 is defended so much, even from your side.

    I understand that Blackberry needs our support (which means upgrading to OS10), but how can I support a company that provides me witch such an "inmature" device and how can I support a company that seems to run around headless?

    I'm OK where I am now with OS7, and if some day I'm forced to make a change and I have to miss all of it's beloved functions, then I probably migrate to a plattform that is at least established.

    In other words, I'll skipp OS10 and see what OS11 brings. If OS11 won't address my needs, I will say goodbye to Blackberry forever.
    belfastdispatcher likes this.
    02-03-14 09:45 AM
  6. afl777's Avatar
    I think the problem is that, BB10 has come into the world as a baby would...not many skills ...intending for it to grow, to develop. And a lot of the BB10 users were legacy users which, although legacy was not perfect, did most people wanted it to do, from notifications, how it dealt with emails, messaging etc. I suppose like me, many hyped up BB10 ready for the launch day that we were all probably expecting something truly amazing. Instead we were faced with help pages of folks not quite satisfied...having expected an advanced phone, advanced as it would be after being out a couple of years. So a lot of the business users go back to legacy, some of us keep users going on the help pages, and updates start rolling out. The updates move it in, but very often with snags for some. As good as this last update is, it has still caused issues....contacts being lost, texts won't send etc etc. Which is not the way most users were hoping to go.

    And don't forget on the sales side....look at the last sales report of handset sales being lower, which is what I predicted when BBM went cross platform cos I'd seen post after post "we won't need to buy a BlackBerry now we can get BBM in android and get Google app store". And then the "Blackberry just die" comments and it's heartbreaking to deal with on a daily basis.

    There also needs to be a different mind set of people in Beta test zone is that apps emerge that don't cause trouble ....ones that go in there to test things and actually leave feedback instead of dashing in to there just to get the latest version of an app.....and before I'm shot down I can assure you many do. The latest BBM update is a case in point....whilat Channels is a great addition for most in the update it is slowing older legacy devices down so much, most want to rollback to an earlier version. This slowing should have come out in the testing and been written into the legacy app description.

    So the baby was born and started to toddle about when everyone expected it to get up and run. When it couldn't run they got ****** off and either went back to the legacy that had the reliable features that they needed, or they jumped ship altogether. Those of us that have stayed are content to nurse our 'babies' till they can run, but are we enough to encourage people to buy?

    Another big mistake was advertising. While the 'elephant' music was great the add at the launch last year focused on one scene after another....keeping moving
    ...instead of showing phone features in close up. And now it's back to no advertising at all. OK cash comes into it, but human nature is people see and people want....they see it in TV like they see other makes and we have a more level playing field. These are just some thoughts from today having been browsing the latest posts in here.

    Posted via CB10
    02-03-14 01:03 PM
  7. afl777's Avatar
    And consider different users. Some in an office. Some at home all day. Now those users might not be too affected if updates bring issues or if certain features are missing off the phone....they have access to the office phone to conduct their business and a PC to pull in emails.

    Some are self employed, maybe house phone transferred to mobile. And if there post update problems or ongoing email issues these people will be hit hard. If emails aren't getting through....or if contacts are wiped as some have been....if calls keep dropping they are losing business. I know this from when I had my private hire minibus and I had to be contactable....no iffs or buts, I had to be on the end of that mobile or I lost customers....

    There are many different needs for a phone and if one or a couple of things are letting the user down, especially the business user, then it is understandable that they will use a device that works....that they can keep in touch with customers with. Or what is the choice? Use the phone which is letting them down to be a 'fanboy' or 'fangirl' and lose business or use something which does the job and keep the business going.?

    Strange thing is.....while everyone on this thread is convinced Blackberry should do whatever it needs to do to make the business grow again....the same courtesy doesn't seem to be afforded to some users....

    I'll leave that thought with you....



    Posted via CB10
    WES51 and tinochiko like this.
    02-03-14 01:33 PM
  8. Bbnivende's Avatar
    And consider different users. Some in an office. Some at home all day. Now those users might not be too affected if updates bring issues or if certain features are missing off the phone....they have access to the office phone to conduct their business and a PC to pull in emails.

    Some are self employed, maybe house phone transferred to mobile. And if there post update problems or ongoing email issues these people will be hit hard. If emails aren't getting through....or if contacts are wiped as some have been....if calls keep dropping they are losing business. I know this from when I had my private hire minibus and I had to be contactable....no iffs or buts, I had to be on the end of that mobile or I lost customers....

    There are many different needs for a phone and if one or a couple of things are letting the user down, especially the business user, then it is understandable that they will use a device that works....that they can keep in touch with customers with. Or what is the choice? Use the phone which is letting them down to be a 'fanboy' or 'fangirl' and lose business or use something which does the job and keep the business going.?

    Strange thing is.....while everyone on this thread is convinced Blackberry should do whatever it needs to do to make the business grow again....the same courtesy doesn't seem to be afforded to some users....

    I'll leave that thought with you....



    Posted via CB10
    Didn't you say that you had or have a Curve ? I would say buy a 9900 while you still can. It is by far the best BBOS phone ever made. Either that or go for a iphone. Note that I did not say, go for a Android. I have had e-mail problems on my Nexus Tablet. The native e-mail program would not display pictures and images. I had to solve those problems using the Aqua email app.

    I wonder if that app would work on a BlackBerry ?? The trial version is free.

    AquaMail: English: About - Aqua Mail

    I am not connected with this developer in any way.
    02-03-14 02:00 PM
  9. WES51's Avatar
    I like to add that it is sad to see Blackberry users attacking Blackberry users.

    If there is anything we share, than it is our support for Blackberry.

    We are all here to pour out our hearts maybe, because in some weird way, we still have hope, that someone who can influence the course of history is actually stumbling on our requsests.

    But regardless, this is not the time to go at eachother and try to prove the others needs wrong.

    Remember we are all what is left, the last remaining few users "in the same boat", who are STILL willing to show up with a Blackberry "at a party". As a comparison, my wife doesn't even want to be seen with a Blackberry, regardless what it can or can not do. A trendy phone is part of her attire and carrying a Blackberry already represents a negative image for her, that she does not want to be a part of.
    tinochiko, ssbtech and bobauckland like this.
    02-03-14 02:03 PM
  10. afl777's Avatar
    Didn't you say that you had or have a Curve ? I would say buy a 9900 while you still can. It is by far the best BBOS phone ever made. Either that or go for a iphone. Note that I did not say, go for a Android. I have had e-mail problems on my Nexus Tablet. The native e-mail program would not display pictures and images. I had to solve those problems using the Aqua email app.

    I wonder if that app would work on a BlackBerry ?? The trial version is free.

    AquaMail: English: About - Aqua Mail

    I am not connected with this developer in any way.
    I'm not talking about me....no way would I have another make other than BlackBerry

    And I would go back to the Curve if the email issue I have doesn't resolve....which it might as someone posted about jumping on and off wifi which I do all day....so that is quite possibly the cause.



    Posted via CB10
    02-03-14 02:09 PM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar



    A trendy phone is part of her attire and carrying a Blackberry already represents a negative image for her, that she does not want to be a part of.
    Strange isn't it. When the phone is encased, they all look pretty much the same except the Q10. The Q10 has a serious - prosumer image.
    02-03-14 02:10 PM
  12. afl777's Avatar
    I like to add that it is sad to see Blackberry users attacking Blackberry users.

    If there is anything we share, than it is our support for Blackberry.

    We are all here to pour out our hearts maybe, because in some weird way, we still have hope, that someone who can influence the course of history is actually stumbling on our requsests.

    But regardless, this is not the time to go at eachother and try to prove the others needs wrong.

    Remember we are all what is left, the last remaining few users "in the same boat", who are STILL willing to show up with a Blackberry "at a party". As a comparison, my wife doesn't even want to be seen with a Blackberry, regardless what it can or can not do. A trendy phone is part of her attire and carrying a Blackberry already represents a negative image for her, that she does not want to be a part of.
    I agree ...so true. As I said, we all have different needs....what does it matter which BlackBerry works for each individual. We are still BlackBerry people and hopefully will have the opportunity to always be. I dread to think if BlackBerry went down just what phone I would use. Maybe a 10 pound phone that would just do calls and texts....cos no other make would be good enough for me after BlackBerry

    Posted via CB10
    02-03-14 02:13 PM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    I never realized you are aware of all this issues. Consequently I have hard time understanding why BB10 is defended so much, even from your side.

    The usual problem around here is that people gravitate to absurdly and uselessly polarized positions the second they disagree with someone on some point, and stop listening to everything else they say.

    My posting history is testament to the fact that I have had plenty of criticism of the product and the company in my time here on CB.

    That doesn't change the fact that I still like the product and I still mostly like the company, even though I think that oftentimes they are sort of hapless bumbling buffoons.

    One of the things I really like about BlackBerry is they don't seem to be the kind of coldly calculating sneaky organization that their major competitors are, either Google with their sneaky abuse of personal data and two-facedness, or Apple with their exploitation of people's emotional weaknesses to push a dumb "personality cult" platform for people who fancy themselves individualists but in reality just want to be led to simplicity. Simplicity has never been something I have had an overwhelming interest in seeking out.

    So I put up with BlackBerry despite its flaws, and try to push for things to improve, all the while being well-aware of their challenges as a company and platform, and the fact that there is a good possibility that at some point it will really die and I will have to migrate to something else. But for now I'm still riding their train.
    02-03-14 07:17 PM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    As good as this last update is, it has still caused issues....contacts being lost, texts won't send etc etc. Which is not the way most users were hoping to go.

    You have to remember that a platform-oriented tech site like this will always have far more traffic from people who come here to solve a problem of some kind, than people who come here just to tell the world "I think this product is really cool and flawless".

    So inevitably you will see a disproportionate number of threads about "I can't get X to work". The last few of those I read here about 10.2.1.1925, the OP was followed-up by 30 people saying "That's strange, I've never had that issue, mine works great".

    In general I think 10.2.1.1925 has turned out very well for people. All OS's have bugs, it is no different on Android or iOS or WindowsPhone. This latest one has been pretty good, overall.


    Summing-up, I'm glad to see some reason and balance coming into this discussion. Very few things in this world are binary black/white, there are good and bad things about both legacy OS and BB10.

    Where the good things from legacy OS can be incorporated into BB10 and provide tangible benefit to a substantial number of people without causing other problems, I think that should be considered. When the available evidence suggests that a legacy feature is only desired by a small minority of people and attempting to provide it will siphon away limited development and other resources for something without broad appeal, I think it would be a bad business decision to try to do that. That is all.

    Thanks to all the BlackBerry users for sticking it out this far.
    tinochiko likes this.
    02-03-14 07:30 PM
  15. Omnitech's Avatar
    Note that I did not say, go for a Android. I have had e-mail problems on my Nexus Tablet. The native e-mail program would not display pictures and images. I had to solve those problems using the Aqua email app.

    I wonder if that app would work on a BlackBerry ?? The trial version is free.

    AquaMail: English: About - Aqua Mail

    I am not connected with this developer in any way.


    For people that need some email functionality that the native BB10 email client does not provide, the usual suggestion I give is the K-9 Mail app in BlackBerry World, which is a ported Android app that does use the Hub for notifications, and addresses some of the limitations in the native client. (While missing some other things that native provides)

    K9Email - BlackBerry World
    Bbnivende likes this.
    02-03-14 07:42 PM
  16. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Long story short, BBOS7 outsells BB10 because , price!, it's cheaper operational cost to the end user, ie BBM. Compression. In the developing world these devices are basically a communication tool vs an entertainment device, the transition from "dumb" phones for many means that if they can get a decent communication device cheaply primarily with some basic features such as Web browsing they the consumer in those markets will go for it. 3G is a luxury in many of these markets, that aside the other issue is BB10 was released with bugs ie random rebooting etc. The monthly cost for operating these devices are also a major factor in consumers not switching over ( no more compression) that coupled with the carriers in those countries not subsidizing these high cost devices is why sales haven't gone well. There is also the trend for them to pick up a cheaper android device which can work out for them as the device is cheaper to acquire and though may cost them more monthly they don't have to pay a lot to actually buy the device.with BBM, what's app etc out there now ,those consumers will actually make the switch to another platform. The idea of releasing the J series device is to stop the hemmorrage that BlackBerry has been experiencing, hopefully those devices will also come with compression to give BlackBerry the edge in those markets vs cheap Androids. This is what BlackBerry should have done along with the release of the higher end devices. Too many missteps let's hope that they can now get their act together.


    Posted via CB10
    02-03-14 10:50 PM
  17. Bbnivende's Avatar
    There have been no indications that Jakarta will include BIS as an option.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    02-03-14 11:14 PM
  18. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    There have been no indications that Jakarta will include BIS as an option.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    No but I think it should be considered as I mentioned, compression maybe the key giving BlackBerry J the "edge" over cheap Androids.

    Posted via CB10
    Davidro1 likes this.
    02-03-14 11:16 PM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The usual problem around here is that people gravitate to absurdly and uselessly polarized positions the second they disagree with someone on some point, and stop listening to everything else they say.

    My posting history is testament to the fact that I have had plenty of criticism of the product and the company in my time here on CB.

    That doesn't change the fact that I still like the product and I still mostly like the company, even though I think that oftentimes they are sort of hapless bumbling buffoons.

    One of the things I really like about BlackBerry is they don't seem to be the kind of coldly calculating sneaky organization that their major competitors are, either Google with their sneaky abuse of personal data and two-facedness, or Apple with their exploitation of people's emotional weaknesses to push a dumb "personality cult" platform for people who fancy themselves individualists but in reality just want to be led to simplicity. Simplicity has never been something I have had an overwhelming interest in seeking out.

    So I put up with BlackBerry despite its flaws, and try to push for things to improve, all the while being well-aware of their challenges as a company and platform, and the fact that there is a good possibility that at some point it will really die and I will have to migrate to something else. But for now I'm still riding their train.
    No, BB is the kind of organisation where the top execs backdate share purchase dates to instantly make a huge profits.





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-04-14 01:47 AM
  20. garnok's Avatar
    No but I think it should be considered as I mentioned, compression maybe the key giving BlackBerry J the "edge" over cheap Androids.

    Posted via CB10
    not really in indonesia (BB jakarta primary target) BIS price are more expensive than regular data plan (BB10, iOS, and android) ....in indonesia 3G is the norm, 4G already available but it still new still have lot of problem and the coverage only available in big city. while 2/EDGE is mainly used by symbian phone from last decade

    i dont know in other country...but in indonesia people who bought BB phone right now mainly come from people outside the big city...in big city people right now choose to buy android and iOS, (but still keep their BBOS phone). its all about the trend / lifestyle in indonesia. people in small city eventually will catch up trend happen in big city
    02-04-14 02:13 AM
  21. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Long story short,
    That was the short version?!? lol

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    02-04-14 03:21 AM
  22. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    And when Microsoft decides not to give it away for free like Google did? Migrate to who?

    Making people migrate their 10-20 year old email accounts is not the solution.


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app
    Are you too cheap to pay for a reliable email service such as outlook.com or its business equivalent Microsoft Office 365? Yes, outlook.com is currently free of cost but would you really stop using it if the cost was non-free? Have you checked if outlook.com supports using your own domain name?

    Posted via the BlackBerry Q5 using CB10.
    02-04-14 03:35 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Are you too cheap to pay for a reliable email service such as outlook.com or its business equivalent Microsoft Office 365? Yes, outlook.com is currently free of cost but would you really stop using it if the cost was non-free? Have you checked if outlook.com supports using your own domain name?

    Posted via the BlackBerry Q5 using CB10.
    I already pay for 100% reliable imap idle email and websites, If I was cheap I would use a free consumer email.

    1and1.co.uk has been 100% reliable since 2008 for me and it ain't cheap but I have no reason to move away from it.

    What I don't want yo do is pay even more just because of BB10 email bugs.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-04-14 03:47 AM
  24. Omnitech's Avatar
    No, BB is the kind of organisation where the top execs backdate share purchase dates to instantly make a huge profits.

    A) that was an unfortunately common practice in those days

    B) those people are gone now.

    C) thanks for playing but using one example of something and then attempting to extrapolate to the entire company culture is more than a bit dumb. And desperate, really.
    Davidro1 likes this.
    02-04-14 05:25 AM
  25. Omnitech's Avatar
    Have you checked if outlook.com supports using your own domain name?

    You can actually use your own domain name with Outlook.com, I learned recently. If they are not charging for that then that would make them the only free email service I have ever seen that gives people that option.
    02-04-14 05:28 AM
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