02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    Can you please show us these global email traffic statistics? I'm actually very curious.

    Couldn't find any surveys on that in my initial search. It's kind of a hard thing to measure due to the way the protocol and traffic works, one might have to extrapolate based on general trends and internet providers.

    For example, POP3 was primarily popular on desktop email clients, and desktop email clients that are not connected to enterprise systems (typically using Microsoft protocols) are declining steadily. Mobile clients and webmail are on the rise.

    Email Client Popularity | Campaign Monitor
    02-02-14 07:44 AM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Couldn't find any surveys on that in my initial search. It's kind of a hard thing to measure due to the way the protocol and traffic works, one might have to extrapolate based on general trends and internet providers.

    For example, POP3 was primarily popular on desktop email clients, and desktop email clients that are not connected to enterprise systems (typically using Microsoft protocols) are declining steadily. Mobile clients and webmail are on the rise.

    Email Client Popularity | Campaign Monitor
    Them on what information did you base that strong statement in the previous post? You made it sound like you're talking about concrete information not just your opinion.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    bobauckland likes this.
    02-02-14 07:53 AM
  3. Davidro1's Avatar
    I have anecdotes of people who kept
    in 2013 the old Blackberry they had since
    years ago, because they thought they had
    optimal use of their wireless connection.

    When I was in two different wilderness parks
    in 2013, my Z10 was the only phone that received email.
    Other people's phones did not! (!)

    I think "legacy" OS/ BIS/ compression/ was a good
    use of bandwidth, and I wonder if there is any way to
    ensure text still works when the wireless signal gets
    degraded. (Or text-based like email can be.)


    We all know en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law‎
    Work expands to fill time available.
    Data expands to fill space.
    Traffic increases to use bandwidth.
    Etc.
    But what provisions have been made
    for the extreme situations?

    What if a million people all want to send text or email
    from the same downtown square one fine day?

    What if you go into a wilderness area and you can
    only send a short signal before the errors degrade it
    beyond the error-correcting capacity?

    I sense there were (last year) many people who didn't
    want a "new" device consuming higher bandwidth
    AND they wanted the security of knowing that their
    emails came in and went out fine.
    So, my hunch is that OS7 sold to that market.
    02-02-14 09:10 AM
  4. WES51's Avatar
    The "soooooooo many users" you refer to, sorry to say, don't actually exist in the general public.
    In my line of work, I work all day with a variety of business professionals. Almost everybody that used to use Blackberry is using iPhone now. The few people I have seen switching to Z10 and Q10 all switched back to their old OS7 devices.

    These are all people, who can't care less about price. They just want something that works for business, that means business.

    I don't know where you are getting your info but OS10 seems to be even more unpopular than Blackberry itself.

    As far as I'm concerned, if I ever have to migrate my another plattform, it sure won't be one on life support.

    Time is money. I don't have time to play glames or be ginea pig to test an slowly evolving crappy incompatible operating system written by some unorganized third grade leftover personel.

    I stick with OS7 as long as it works JUST AS PERFECT FOR ME as it does now, and then go with whatever best suits MY needs.
    JeepBB and bobauckland like this.
    02-02-14 10:03 AM
  5. Anthonyy_B's Avatar
    I don't know why the OS7 sales are still higher than OS10 phones, idk where those numbers came from I'm just going on what OP said. But people are crazy, I couldn't stand my old BlackBerry, I only had it 2nd to my iPhone for business reasons and BBM before it came out on ios because that's how I kept intouch with a lot of my business people overseas. Had an upgrade, got the Q10 and now I'm using it more than my iPhone 5s!!!!!

    Posted via Q10
    02-02-14 10:07 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I don't know why the OS7 sales are still higher than OS10 phones, idk where those numbers came from I'm just going on what OP said. But people are crazy, I couldn't stand my old BlackBerry, I only had it 2nd to my iPhone for business reasons and BBM before it came out on ios because that's how I kept intouch with a lot of my business people overseas. Had an upgrade, got the Q10 and now I'm using it more than my iPhone 5s!!!!!

    Posted via Q10
    The numbers come from BlackBerry directly.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-02-14 10:21 AM
  7. LatinoLoco24's Avatar
    There is nothing in the basic technology that would prevent BlackBerry from having sophisticated notification features that work reliably and without battery-life issues.

    If you start talking about 3rd-party apps, you are throwing various other variables in there, including how competent those developers are. Most of the people who develop apps like that for BB10 these days are basically one-person companies, so their technical resources are limited.

    BlackBerry just chose not to implement the customizable notification features of BBOS into BB10, and they left out a variety of APIs (software interfaces) that would allow 3rd-party apps to do things they used to do on the legacy devices. (For example: a 3rd-party notification app has no way to see the phone number of an incoming phone call, which then makes it impossible for it to have custom notifications based on who the caller is. The native OS notification features can do that, but in legacy BBOS there was an API that allowed 3rd-party apps to do that too.)

    So those things were basically design decisions, not technology limitations. Many of us hope that they will add-back some of that functionality to BB10.

    As for battery life - a good notification app uses very little battery life. BlackBerry's headless functionality is particularly finicky about this - the software has to pass stringent tests including battery drain tests before BlackBerry will approve it to be distributed through BlackBerry World.
    Thank you for clearing that up.

    Posted via CB10
    02-02-14 11:01 AM
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I could be wrong but I think going back to add missing core functionality will be much harder then coding them in from the very beginning. Is that why perhaps it's taking BB so long to add a few of them back?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-02-14 11:07 AM
  9. web99's Avatar
    In my line of work, I work all day with a variety of business professionals. Almost everybody that used to use Blackberry is using iPhone now. The few people I have seen switching to Z10 and Q10 all switched back to their old OS7 devices.
    In my company, I've seen the opposite. Most migrated from BBOS to the Z30 and about 1/3 to the Q10. Less than 5% chose to remain on BBOS.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy Note Tablet
    Davidro1 and Omnitech like this.
    02-02-14 11:08 AM
  10. johnnyuk's Avatar
    In my company, I've seen the opposite. Most migrated from BBOS to the Z30 and about 1/3 to the Q10. Less than 5% chose to remain on BBOS.

    Posted from my Samsung Galaxy Note Tablet
    In my workplace 100% of people chose to leave BBOS for dead.

    98% chose the all touch Z10 over the Q10 after trying both.

    In Enterprise the coffins for BBOS and physical Qwerty are being lowered in to the ground but only BelfastDispatcher is crying! lol

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Davidro1 likes this.
    02-02-14 11:41 AM
  11. djpailo's Avatar
    One thing could be price. Z10 is still quite expensive on some contracts and cheapest in UK is still 180. That isn't too bad but considering you can get a Moto G got 99, I think there lies the problem. The older blackberry phones are a lot cheaper and consequently selling more if they suit peoples needs.
    johnnyuk and afl777 like this.
    02-02-14 11:44 AM
  12. afl777's Avatar
    I remember seeing, recently, a statement from BlackBerry that included OS handsets had sold more than BB10.

    And it might be worth thinking of other articles re mobile companies that claim iphone, Samsung etc sales were down last quarter.

    Also take into consideration economies in many countries where the cost of living has risen yet wages have stayed the same or dropped. Many people are having trouble keeping up with normal bills and couldn't think of spending 300 or more for a phone. The Z10 comes in now at a reasonable 150 in the UK....but if someone can buy a legacy device for 99, or a Moto for 99 they are going to choose them.

    Ive been reading most of the posts in this thread...most seeming to be 'black and white' as to why BB10 should be selling more. Unfortunately now it isn't only specs that sell the phone......to many it is price too. And the ones that will be selling are 100 and under.
    02-02-14 12:05 PM
  13. ssbtech's Avatar
    Is that why perhaps it's taking BB so long to add a few of them back?
    I think it's more along the lines of the mentality at BlackBerry. Who knows if the guys who spec'd some of the most cherished features of BBOS back in the day are still around.

    It's likely an entirely new crew of product designers calling the shots and the devs are just doing what they're told. In this iPhone/Android dominated world, why bother looking back at 5 year old BlackBerry handsets to see what features they should implement in BB10?

    Look, the call screen was considered by BlackBerry to be too much of a "think point". If users are struggling to slide a bar across the screen, do you think they're clamouring for the return of old BBOS features? Sadly I don't think so.
    02-02-14 12:06 PM
  14. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Look, the call screen was considered by BlackBerry to be too much of a "think point". If users are struggling to slide a bar across the screen, do you think they're clamouring for the return of old BBOS features? Sadly I don't think so.
    You've got to remember just how reclusive and stuck in the 2000's mobile phone mentality many of the remaining BBOS users who upgraded to BlackBerry 10 were and still are.

    They find all touch screen swiping gestures to be a "think point" because of their lack of exposure to other mobile platforms and are programmed to feel like they need to push a physical button to answer a call, and to do everything else. It's a big learning curve for stalwarts and stuck in the muds who buried themselves away in a BBOS cave while the world moved on around them.

    The term dinosaurs has rarely ever been so appropriate as a way to describe users of a technology platform as it is for BBOS users who still choose BBOS today over BlackBerry 10, or any of the modern smartphone choices, because of how it is designed rather than because the person is on a budget.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    02-02-14 02:29 PM
  15. afl777's Avatar
    You've got to remember just how reclusive and stuck in the 2000's mobile phone mentality many of the remaining BBOS users who upgraded to BlackBerry 10 were and still are.

    They find all touch screen swiping gestures to be a "think point" because of their lack of exposure to other mobile platforms and are programmed to feel like they need to push a physical button to answer a call, and to do everything else. It's a big learning curve for stalwarts and stuck in the muds who buried themselves away in a BBOS cave while the world moved on around them.

    The term dinosaurs has rarely ever been so appropriate as a way to describe users of a technology platform as it is for BBOS users who still choose BBOS today over BlackBerry 10, or any of the modern smartphone choices, because of how it is designed rather than because the person is on a budget.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Not at all....as I posted on another thread...if the daily asking for passwords on ALL my emails accounts doesn't stop and soon, and this has been happening for months with my Z10....and if it continues to be that I cannot get onto the internet at the few places I go to where my BBOS phone had no problems....then I will have no option but to return to OS as my main phone so that once again I have email accounts on my phone instead of all on my PlayBook and I can join in on the internet when I'm away from home wifi. This isn't something I want to do as I do like my Z10.

    It's a shame that someone would consider those who use whatever device suits their needs in such a bigoted way....

    Posted via CB10
    bobauckland likes this.
    02-02-14 02:41 PM
  16. Davidro1's Avatar
    Get your cell phone carrier to exchange the phone.
    Get them to bring high level resources involved.

    Your "daily" refresh of passwords is not a problem of the device per se (z10) nor a problem of the OS per se.

    Go find a solution on another thread.

    Thank you and good night.

    Not at all....as I posted on another thread...if the daily asking for passwords on ALL my emails accounts doesn't stop and soon, and this has been happening for months with my Z10....and if it continues to be that I cannot get onto the internet at the few places I go to where my BBOS phone had no problems....then I will have no option but to return to OS as my main phone so that once again I have email accounts on my phone instead of all on my PlayBook and I can join in on the internet when I'm away from home wifi. This isn't something I want to do as I do like my Z10.

    It's a shame that someone would consider those who use whatever device suits their needs in such a bigoted way....

    Posted via CB10


    Posted via CB10
    02-02-14 02:48 PM
  17. afl777's Avatar
    Get your cell phone carrier to exchange the phone.
    Get them to bring high level resources involved.

    Your "daily" refresh of passwords is not a problem of the device per se (z10) nor a problem of the OS per se.

    Go find a solution on another thread.

    Thank you and good night.





    Posted via CB10
    And this is why I love Crackberry so much....I answer someone who calls legacy device users dinosaurs and point out why I might return to my BBOS and sure enough....it doesn't disappoint.

    My Z10 is not from a carrier/network...nor is it from a store....its a factory unlocked launch phone that I was lucky enough to be given at the London launch last year.

    And I am not looking for a solution....thank you...

    Posted via CB10
    02-02-14 02:58 PM
  18. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The common denominator between BelfastDispatcher and afl777 seems to be the receipt of a free London launch phone.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    02-02-14 03:12 PM
  19. JeepBB's Avatar
    I think it's more along the lines of the mentality at BlackBerry. Who knows if the guys who spec'd some of the most cherished features of BBOS back in the day are still around.

    It's likely an entirely new crew of product designers calling the shots and the devs are just doing what they're told. In this iPhone/Android dominated world, why bother looking back at 5 year old BlackBerry handsets to see what features they should implement in BB10?

    Look, the call screen was considered by BlackBerry to be too much of a "think point". If users are struggling to slide a bar across the screen, do you think they're clamouring for the return of old BBOS features? Sadly I don't think so.
    This is truer than you might think.

    There were a few posts on another thread from someone who was there at the time, and the BB10 team and the OS7 team simply didn't talk.

    My take on his words was that the BB10 guys thought they were building "the future", were lauded internally, and didn't feel they had anything to learn from those dead-wood legacy guys sitting in the corner. OK, that's my maybe over-harsh take on what he wrote... but it might explain why so many legacy "must-haves" and shortcuts were omitted from BB10 at the outset.
    02-02-14 03:34 PM
  20. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Not at all....as I posted on another thread...if the daily asking for passwords on ALL my emails accounts doesn't stop and soon, and this has been happening for months with my Z10....
    BlackBerry 10 isn't designed to keep asking you for your account password, there's clearly a bug still to squash. That's not what it's supposed to do so your not looking back at BBOS fondly due to design differences there.

    It's not like there have never been any bugs in BBOS. Over the last decade I and my users have had to suffer some appalling bugs in BBOS, such as OS4.5 where with a particular IT Policy set for security if a user opened an email with an embedded image the phone would immediately reboot. That was atrocious and was never fixed. "Upgrade to a new OS4.6 / 5 handset" was BlackBerry's answer!

    and if it continues to be that I cannot get onto the internet at the few places I go to where my BBOS phone had no problems....
    I don't disbelieve you with the phone you have and where you are but personally I'm yet to find the BBOS phone that's useful on the Web over 2G and I've used 5 different BBOS 7 phones in the last 2 years. I frequently have a 9860, a Z10 and a Z30 in areas with only 2G reception and they are all as bad as each other for Web browsing to the point where I stop even trying until in can find WiFi or a better signal. The 9860 hasn't shown itself to be the answer for 2G browsing for me just like the other handsets in the series I've tried.

    It's a shame that someone would consider those who use whatever device suits their needs in such a bigoted way....
    Posted via CB10
    That wasn't aimed at you and the situation you are in because you are not necessarily choosing BBOS because of its design, more because of its maturity in terms of the amount of debugging it's had over the decade. BB10 is still a new platform compared to BBOS and still has bugs to squash.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 02-02-14 at 04:20 PM.
    afl777 likes this.
    02-02-14 03:37 PM
  21. ssbtech's Avatar
    My take on his words was that the BB10 guys thought they were building "the future", were lauded internally, and didn't feel they had anything to learn from those dead-wood legacy guys sitting in the corner. OK, that's my maybe over-harsh take on what he wrote... but it might explain why so many legacy "must-haves" and shortcuts were omitted from BB10 at the outset.
    It's too bad they didn't look at some of the aspects of BBOS that BlackBerry owners came to know and love. A year into BB10, and we still don't have the same sort of granular notification system of the old OS. But boy, the designers were hell bent on changing the call screen.

    The whole idea of peek and flow was to remove the unnecessary button-based navigation. But what did they do? Go and fix the floating action bar to the top of the keyboard, where it's in the way and unused for the bulk of composing the body of an email.

    At this point I'm not even sure BlackBerry knows what their users want. BB10 seems to be a mass public beta. We're not customers, we're a study group.
    02-02-14 03:52 PM
  22. afl777's Avatar
    The common denominator between BelfastDispatcher and afl777 seems to be the receipt of a free London launch phone.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    Knowing who was at the launch in London there will be a few others frequent this forum who have the Z10 launch phones......so your point is?

    Posted via CB10
    02-02-14 04:05 PM
  23. Davidro1's Avatar
    I'll bet you've held off from getting resolution because you're hoping to get another free phone. Proof of this is impossible, so please feel free to scream that I'm unfair towards you.
    Knowing who was at the launch in London there will be a few others frequent this forum who have the Z10 launch phones......so your point is?
    The point is, you two have phones that were free.

    It could be argued that you are sore loser(s) if your free phone didn't come with a longterm service contract ALSO.
    02-02-14 04:22 PM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I'll bet you've held off from getting resolution because you're hoping to get another free phone. Proof is impossible.

    The point is, you two have phones that were free.

    It could be argued that you are sore loser(s) if your free phone didn't come with a longterm service contract ALSO.
    I'll put it to you this way, two people that were big BB fans and spent countless hours helping people out on the BB Facebook page were rewarded with invitations to the London office and later the launch (where everybody got a free Z10 so no special treatment there)

    Yet both of them are very disappointed with bb10, one is considering going back to BBOS and the other has already gone back up BBOS.

    Coincidence?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-02-14 04:27 PM
  25. afl777's Avatar
    I'll bet you've held off from getting resolution because you're hoping to get another free phone. Proof of this is impossible, so please feel free to scream that I'm unfair towards you.

    The point is, you two have phones that were free.

    It could be argued that you are sore loser(s) if your free phone didn't come with a longterm service contract ALSO.
    The phone has got full Blackberry support as given to others at the launch.

    I started a thread on here a few weeks ago to find a solution to the email issue which seems to be affecting quite a few people but had some pleasant character trolling till I left the thread. I mention in this,I presumed, debate thread why I would go back to OS and have been jumped on again by two people making assumptions.

    And far from hoping to get another free phone, I need a phone which is totally reliable. Although I refuse to have the 'disabled 'tag, I don't get around very well, cannot go for help for instance if my vehicle breaks down on the odd occasion I'm out. So I need a reliable phone. My concern re signal is not just emails...if the phone doesn't pick up in a bad signal area as well as the OS did then I have a problem.

    A friend has just very kindly given me his unused battery bundle for my Z10....in case I break down and can't run the engine to charge a flat phone battery....another concern I had about trying to get out a bit more this summer if I can, as the OS Curve battery lasted well. This kindness will save me from carrying a spare 'ordinary' emergency phone.

    So you see....if I really do need to let everyone on here know that I am a spacca who needs to rely on their phones more than able bodied people do to defend such comments as me...."hoping to get another free phone"....then I hope you are happy with your comments, and are that you have been so nasty.

    Posted via CB10
    02-02-14 04:38 PM
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