02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. last_attempt's Avatar
    I think a lot of current BB 7 users are like me. We would like a new BB 10 phone but don't need one yet.
    12-20-13 08:25 PM
  2. Omnitech's Avatar
    Vive le difference indeed, so let's stop pressuring people happy with BBOS devices to switch to BB10 simply so that Chen and co can get more $$$ out of them and the stock price goes up. Let's see it from the consumer's point of view.

    I honestly cannot fathom where you get these convoluted conspiracy theories, but markets change, customer preferences change, and products change. Many people also have a habit of assuming that there are more people that agree with their preferences than there actually are.

    If a company like Blackberry keeps expending large amounts of resources building things with little demand, it makes no difference how high the stock price once was when the company goes out of business.
    12-20-13 08:51 PM
  3. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    There is multiple factors but the biggest is because BB7 is much cheaper. Chen mentioned that the upcoming device will have 3G and be a cheap BB10 I suspect half the price of the Q5 or something of that sort.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    The biggest factor is the fact that legacy blackberry's are better at being blackberry's vs os10 devices.
    jcbrunson and Dave Bourque like this.
    12-20-13 09:06 PM
  4. alternator77's Avatar
    When your entry level device is $400 thats a problem.

    I'm talking about the q5 of course

    Posted via CB10
    12-20-13 09:18 PM
  5. pipotobe's Avatar
    I think it's a question of trust. I have a bb os7. Do I want a z10 (or Z30)? Maybe yes. Can I afford one? Definitively. Am I going to spend a couple of $$$ on a phone that can be discontinued anytime...No. I have a torch 9860 it works well, but I'm not giving more money to blackberry and don't even get me started with my playbook fiasco.

    It's been knowed that Blackberry has to regain the confidence of their hardcore users. With the numbers I'm seeing, there's a lot of them that left the boat.

    Another factor is the resale value. If you buy a BB os7 device you're not loosing much when you are reselling itbut when I compare the results of the Z10 (which is 10 months old) I'm astonished.
    BigAl_BB9900 and milo53 like this.
    12-20-13 10:04 PM
  6. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I'm sure all the good ideas have already been mentioned by this point, but some of what I saw disturbs me... there are people suggesting that BlackBerry stop selling BBOS devices as if the lack of new BBOS devices on the market will drive adoption of BB10.

    I'm think it's the most absurd thing I've heard this month, if not in the last 6 months.
    Saiga and BigAl_BB9900 like this.
    12-20-13 10:12 PM
  7. goku_vegeta's Avatar
    Everyone is forgetting about BIS plans and data compression. In many countries this is the sole reason to own a BlackBerry device.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    12-20-13 10:45 PM
  8. Omnitech's Avatar
    I'm sure all the good ideas have already been mentioned by this point, but some of what I saw disturbs me... there are people suggesting that BlackBerry stop selling BBOS devices as if the lack of new BBOS devices on the market will drive adoption of BB10.

    I'm think it's the most absurd thing I've heard this month, if not in the last 6 months.


    We all have our opinions, and rest assured that large numbers of people have drastically different stances on that.

    In my opinion, the only reason why BB7 even seems like a significant product any more is because overall sales are so pathetically small, that amongst that level of unit sales, a grain of sand would seem impressive.

    It's like the guy in the 3000m race that gets lapped 3 times - comparing BlackBerry sales to the major competition.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    12-20-13 10:52 PM
  9. oilgeo10's Avatar
    Are developers still producing apps for OS7 ? I would like to see a breakdown of the number of official (not ported) apps for each different platform of BB OS7, BB10, and BB PlayBook OS. As well, a breakdown of the number of new apps added to each of these BB OS's in the last quarter.
    qwerty4ever likes this.
    12-20-13 11:04 PM
  10. CaptainSprk's Avatar
    I really believe Foxconn will produce great devices for the low price.
    RyanGermann likes this.
    12-20-13 11:12 PM
  11. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    The biggest factor is the fact that legacy blackberry's are better at being blackberry's vs os10 devices.
    Lol sure... Better slowdowns and crashes.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    12-20-13 11:55 PM
  12. Taren Capel's Avatar
    Probably because OS7 is tried and tested and works better than 10. Yes 10 looks very nice and works well on the new devices, but I prefer my old 9900, it did everything I wanted it to without any fuss. Simple things like downloading podcasts and copy & paste. There are so many annoying bugs in 10, that I would have gone back already if t weren't for my Q10 being an early xmas present and it would upset my husband who bought it for me.
    Bottom line, OS10 has been rather disappointing and if you want a decent BB, I'd go with a 9900. Which may explain the sales.
    Legal Eagle and dllrogers55 like this.
    12-21-13 12:08 AM
  13. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Probably because OS7 is tried and tested and works better than 10. Yes 10 looks very nice and works well on the new devices, but I prefer my old 9900, it did everything I wanted it to without any fuss. Simple things like downloading podcasts and copy & paste. There are so many annoying bugs in 10, that I would have gone back already if t weren't for my Q10 being an early xmas present and it would upset my husband who bought it for me.
    Bottom line, OS10 has been rather disappointing and if you want a decent BB, I'd go with a 9900. Which may explain the sales.
    OS10 full of bugs?? Exageration much?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803
    12-21-13 12:25 AM
  14. Bishkin's Avatar
    I think it's a question of trust. I have a bb os7. Do I want a z10 (or Z30)? Maybe yes. Can I afford one? Definitively. Am I going to spend a couple of $$$ on a phone that can be discontinued anytime...No. I have a torch 9860 it works well, but I'm not giving more money to blackberry and don't even get me started with my playbook fiasco.

    It's been knowed that Blackberry has to regain the confidence of their hardcore users. With the numbers I'm seeing, there's a lot of them that left the boat.

    Another factor is the resale value. If you buy a BB os7 device you're not loosing much when you are reselling itbut when I compare the results of the Z10 (which is 10 months old) I'm astonished.
    BB10 devices are like window dressing for Blackberry trying to stay relevant in a very competitive industry it does not have an edge. Truth lies in os7. Having said that I like my Z10 ....
    12-21-13 01:14 AM
  15. frielfanatic's Avatar
    The only reasons it sells more is it uses less data and most companies haven't converted their bes to 10

    Posted via CB10
    12-21-13 01:19 AM
  16. bobauckland's Avatar
    I realize that perhaps in your peculiar idiom of the English language, accusing someone of "frothing at the mouth" is not an insult.

    I guess we just use a different English idiom over here.
    If you were able to read and understand what I wrote without having preconceived notions clouding your view, you'd see that I said if someone talked to you the way you talk to others, you'd be frothing at the mouth. Because when people present their opinions as facts to you, you get very agitated. That's despite you constantly pushing your opinions as facts and even dressing them up as faqs and cross referencing them all over the place. It's not an insult, it's an observation that you seem to have one standard for other posters and one for yourself.
    Nonetheless, it's weird seeing someone who constantly personally attacks other posters for their choices and usage habits try and play the victim card.
    If I wanted to, I could claim that calling my use of the language peculiar is an insult. But I'm not less than 5 so I won't.

    On topic, the numbers appear to tie in more with what a minority of users on cb have been saying than the vocal majority. Seems like the vocal majority on cb claiming bb10 is better than bb7 and it's the future, may not be representative of BlackBerry users overall after all. Something I've long suspected.

    Posted via CB10
    kevinnugent likes this.
    12-21-13 02:55 AM
  17. Paul Collins4's Avatar
    Well my grandma who is more or less a coffin dodger uses the 9320 there's no way she could use bb10

    Posted via CB10
    12-21-13 03:16 AM
  18. anon(4077577)'s Avatar
    my Z10 crapped itself, and whilst waiting for parts, I used my old 9900.... as much as it pains me to say this, the 9900 felt a few more times genuine BlackBerry than the Z10 will ever be.... I can't explain it....


    from an australian Z10...
    bobauckland likes this.
    12-21-13 03:25 AM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    [personal ranting deleted]

    On topic, the numbers appear to tie in more with what a minority of users on cb have been saying than the vocal majority. Seems like the vocal majority on cb claiming bb10 is better than bb7 and it's the future, may not be representative of BlackBerry users overall after all. Something I've long suspected.

    There is a term for that, it's called "selection bias". Here's an illustration:

    Let's take two kinds of objects, "I" objects, and "O" objects. Here's our pile of them:

    I I I I I I I I I I I I I O O O O O O O O O O O

    Now, hold your hand over the left side of your eyes, such that only the group of objects on the right are visible.

    Now repeat after me:

    "See! I knew it all along! There are ONLY "O" objects, just look at that! I was right!! "O" objects totally dominate!!"

    Here's a helpful wiki entry:

    Selection bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Its Spade likes this.
    12-21-13 04:41 AM
  20. sixpacker's Avatar
    If you are still a speech/text/email only user then OS7 devices compare very favourably with BB10 (and IOS/Android).
    12-21-13 04:48 AM
  21. darkehawke's Avatar
    The simple answer? Something I myself am loathe to admit: legacy OS devices are a better fit for more people.
    This legacy os was the master of communication and still is.
    BlackBerry 10 is good all round but does not stand out as a master of anything
    And it's overpriced

    Posted via CB10
    bobauckland and xanadome like this.
    12-21-13 04:56 AM
  22. redchilli88's Avatar
    I use both simply because BB10 is not on par with BBOS7 for emails to start with. (1) I can setup a specific email account with BIS with no issue whatsoever, with BB10 I still cannot setup the same email account even after using the Blackberry Email Account Validation Tool (EAVT) to help identify and verify the account and server settings How to use the Email Account Validation Tool | Inside BlackBerry Help Blog. (2) Cannot delete an email on device (option on 10.2.1.1055 is not working). (3) No separate email icons. (4) Email in the Hub is showing Display name and email address (privacy issue), in BBOS7 only the Display name is shown. (5) In BB10 no granularity in backup e.g. cannot backup separately emails, contacts, etc. (6) Restoration of backups in BB10 is a gamble and not working properly especially in between version i.e. 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.2.1 (7) BBM chat history is too often lost, even with non-destructive update. (7) Editing circle on BB10 is not there yet but I can put up with it for the time being. (8) Battery is another issue but I'm getting used to it as it is a trade-off for a bigger screen and a better media device. In summary BB0S7 is a professional communications tool, whereas BB10 is not there yet.
    12-21-13 05:00 AM
  23. bobauckland's Avatar
    There is a term for that, it's called "selection bias". Here's an illustration:

    Let's take two kinds of objects, "I" objects, and "O" objects. Here's our pile of them:

    I I I I I I I I I I I I I O O O O O O O O O O O

    Now, hold your hand over the left side of your eyes, such that only the group of objects on the right are visible.

    Now repeat after me:

    "See! I knew it all along! There are ONLY "O" objects, just look at that! I was right!! "O" objects totally dominate!!"

    Here's a helpful wiki entry:

    Selection bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    So you're describing what you do when you say people don't like bis or bb7 was outdated or bis was antiquated. Somehow I think you haven't realised that.

    Posted via CB10
    12-21-13 05:08 AM
  24. bakron1's Avatar
    Most everyone I talked to using IOS7 tells me the same thing when I ask them how they like it, their answer is constant "it just works". They also tell me if they have an issue they can go to the Apple store and get help for free. Great concept huh!!!!!

    Apple wants folks to "like" their devices and have the customer support to back it up, that builds a loyal customer base, basic business concepts 101 folks!!!! If I where the marketing folks at Blackberry, I would be taking lessons?
    12-21-13 05:14 AM
  25. Infamy79's Avatar
    A few people have touched on this, but not to the extent that I think it deserves. The single stupidest thing that RIM/Blackberry did was to not have backwards compatibility within BB10. Their bread and butter market is the enterprise which is notoriously slow to adopt new technology and with one move they ruled out anyone running BES5 from adopting BB10. Sure you can deploy BES10 servers, but that is really just glorified version of their Blackberry Fusion management software, they switched the email comms to Exchange Active-Sync to focus on the BYOD market and by not having any support for BES5 completely ignored their current customer base which was true push email compared to Microsoft's quasi-push system that didn't have the same data compression ability. I genuinely had to read this news over and over again when I first read it, I couldn't believe a company could be so stupid.

    Surely it must have been possible to for them to add an option under BB10 accounts to add a legacy BES email account, it only needs to understand a packet coming over the air and likewise an update to BES to be able to recognise a BB10 device, yet it seems like they wanted to push companies to adopt their BB10 servers, which would never replace BES5 but you have to run them side by side to manage legacy devices. As much of a Blackberry fan an IT Manager may have been, there really was no compelling reason to deploy BES10 when it just used ActiveSync anyway.

    Add in removal of BIS and you've now taken key functionality away from the vast majority of Blackberry users if they "upgrade" to BB10. So with the Enterprise still running BES5 and not ready to migrate away from its advantages, or perhaps having internal apps developed to run on BB7 via BES5, I hardly see it as a surprise that businesses keep buying legacy devices that run with their legacy systems.

    TLDR: Blackberry turned their back on the Enterprise market functionality that got them where they were to focus on a BYOD market that was already lost. End of story.
    Last edited by Infamy79; 12-21-13 at 06:06 AM.
    belfastdispatcher and bbq10l like this.
    12-21-13 05:29 AM
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