02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    What is sad is your vendetta against BB10 and your limited understanding of the current market paradigm.

    A sadness that you spread out in every single one of your posts in this thread and threads similar to it.

    Just the fact of you still whining that this feature is gone and your inability to accept that 99+% of smartphone users literally couldn't care less about such a feature, shows how disconnected you are from the market once again.

    Not even talking about your outlandish statements of BBOS being still competitive in 2014.
    These are the moments where I laugh at my phone, and people around me wonder why.

    Posted via CB10
    I beg to differ, the poster I responded to seems to care, would you rather he thinks it could come back when it's not?




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 04:27 PM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I didn't pin my hopes on the Q5 after it was released, no.
    Go through my posts, and you will see that I declared the Q5 as being DOA after I saw the price.
    Same thing I said about the Z30, btw.

    And you really really really have to work on your reading comprehension.
    I never said that BB10 is hoepless.
    I just never did that.

    That is you projecting your thoughts onto my posts, and I have no idea why you do that.
    I always said that if BlackBerry has a chance of surviving then this will happen under BB10.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah? Then why are you always going on about the 99% that don't care about BlackBerry? How is that showing hope?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 04:28 PM
  3. Sheaner19's Avatar
    Yeah? Then why are you always going on about the 99% that don't care about BlackBerry? How is that showing hope?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Love my BlackBerry regardless think as a society we want to much and expect to much! My BlackBerry has done what it's always done well. COMMUNICATION!! texts emails bbm. No other device even come close to BlackBerry's messaging capabilities! Did I mention no other device comes. Close to the BlackBerry keyboard. Sure there's swype for Android but it's not baked into the core of the os. who's the first to receive messages when turning on their device well getting off the plane...


    IROC-Z30 But Mostly She Rocks Me!
    Davidro1 likes this.
    02-01-14 04:35 PM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yeah? Then why are you always going on about the 99% that don't care about BlackBerry? How is that showing hope?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Work on your reading comprehension and then ask again.
    Since I do know how hard it can be for you, I will give you a hint:

    Because a certain number of users is unable to understand that their personal preferences regarding phones are mostly irrelevant, I like to use empirical data.
    Let's use an example to illustrate that:

    A certain user says, that the non implementation of BIS, is the reason why BB10 failed.
    I then take a look at the market and I see that 99% of phones sold last year , don't have BIS.
    The obvious conclusion is that BIS is totally irrelevant for BlackBerry succeeding with BB10 or not.

    You should really read more carefully.
    I am not saying that 99% of people don't care about BlackBerry.
    I am saying that they don't care about BBOS (with 1% being BBOS' marketshare of phones sold last year).

    It's not that hard to understand what someone writes, really.

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk and Omnitech like this.
    02-01-14 04:38 PM
  5. LatinoLoco24's Avatar
    There is a lot of technical jargon going on in this extensive thread, therefore I'm not trying to jump into that, especially since I'm not well versed on the topic. I just have a harmless question with regards to a previous post on here about a particular feature not able to be implemented in OS10.

    With QNX being touted and praised for its advances, how is it possible for simple --yet thoughtful and practical -- features to not be executed within this new OS? I'm not talking about BIS, but basic stuff...or did I misunderstand some of the topics being discussed in here? just want to know why, for example, we can't run a simple LED app, headless, with an array of colors, without constant bugs or battery life concerns? You'd figure the OS would be readily able to optimize some of these things.

    Basically, is QNX able to do all the things legacy devices are known and appreciated for by the group of nostalgics on here? I'm honestly asking because I don't know.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 05:19 PM
  6. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Work on your reading comprehension and then ask again.
    Since I do know how hard it can be for you, I will give you a hint:

    Because a certain number of users is unable to understand that their personal preferences regarding phones are mostly irrelevant, I like to use empirical data.
    Let's use an example to illustrate that:

    A certain user says, that the non implementation of BIS, is the reason why BB10 failed.
    I then take a look at the market and I see that 99% of phones sold last year , don't have BIS.
    The obvious conclusion is that BIS is totally irrelevant for BlackBerry succeeding with BB10 or not.

    You should really read more carefully.
    I am not saying that 99% of people don't care about BlackBerry.
    I am saying that they don't care about BBOS (with 1% being BBOS' marketshare of phones sold last year).

    It's not that hard to understand what someone writes, really.

    Posted via CB10
    Well if Jakarta had the capacity to run BIS as well as a faster non BIS model and at an attractive price , they would have something that Android lacks. You can not lump all the markets in the world together. In some markets an all touch model running BIS could sell very well. Not in my market nor yours but in Asia , Africa and South America. How long can BIS remain viable ? Four to five years ?


    I agree though that more BIS BBOS phones is not the answer. There are no markets that value physical keyboarded small screen phones over larger screened all touch phones. The great failure of BBOS was in failing to provide an answer to the iphone.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 02-01-14 at 05:44 PM.
    02-01-14 05:34 PM
  7. tinochiko's Avatar


    The great failure of BBOS was in failing to provide an answer to the iphone.
    Which is what BB10 attempts to do

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    02-01-14 05:53 PM
  8. Sheaner19's Avatar
    There is a lot of technical jargon going on in this extensive thread, therefore I'm not trying to jump into that, especially since I'm not well versed on the topic. I just have a harmless question with regards to a previous post on here about a particular feature not able to be implemented in OS10.

    With QNX being touted and praised for its advances, how is it possible for simple --yet thoughtful and practical -- features to not be executed within this new OS? I'm not talking about BIS, but basic stuff...or did I misunderstand some of the topics being discussed in here? just want to know why, for example, we can't run a simple LED app, headless, with an array of colors, without constant bugs or battery life concerns? You'd figure the OS would be readily able to optimize some of these things.

    Basically, is QNX able to do all the things legacy devices are known and appreciated for by the group of nostalgics on here? I'm honestly asking because I don't know.

    Posted via CB10
    You can run custom led with power tools it's also headless highly recommend it has all sorts of goodies geo fencing custom sounds. Device startup shutdown sounds batt low audible notifications batt full notifications etc etc really bring a lot of charm to an already charmed device

    IROC-Z30 But Mostly She Rocks Me!
    LatinoLoco24 likes this.
    02-01-14 06:06 PM
  9. Davidro1's Avatar
    It's only a matter of.time before we get the answer to the "OS7 sales versus the new OS sales" question, and why sales are that amount. Stay tuned for six more months.


    The new OS is now a year old. It's on its third update. BTW, third updates are often the game changing ones. E.g. Windows 3.1


    In the past 100 posts I've seen someone posting here who confused z10 and the bb10 OS.


    Today I still have a Z10 and a Z30. More then two months with both phones open in front of me every minute of every day. I know have the official 10.2.1.537 OS version on both. They are both good, very good. Both almost equally proficient in everything. THIS is because of the operating system. THIS is what I waited five years to get. Yes I was unhappy one year ago when I discovered I was paying BlackBerry all my time and experience to perform beta testing without getting stock options or salary. But that period of my life is over now. Besides it's not the first time someone has taken advantage of me. :-)

    I prefer the z30 over the Z10 by far because of these reasons
    I can read everything it displays, nighttime/daytime, browser/app/other text.
    I get all the battery autonomy I wanted.
    I get radio FM straight (without interfacing to cellphone data).
    I get good sound when I want it.

    All the other advantages of the z30 apply to the z10 too. They are OS advantages not z30-specific.

    I shall sell the Z10 to someone who I've known for 20 years. He shall be getting his first smartphone ever. He has been in IT and in middle management since 1970. He has an Executive MBA. He knows what to do with every feature of the z10 already without reading the forum or reading tutorials. Or so it seems.


    BlackBerry's one year old OS seems to be great, to me.


    I can agree with anyone who asks, that this OS was not good a year ago. But I don't wish to put this statement out there in my opening or in my closing. It was once true but now it's over.



    So, I see the reasons why the old OS outsold the new OS, last year. Thanks to this forum.
    johnnyuk likes this.
    02-01-14 07:49 PM
  10. Nine54's Avatar
    What you fail to realise, is that BBOS is even less than differentiated in today's market.
    Nobody wants BIS anymore.
    Nobody wants a keyboard anymore.
    Nobody wants a browser that can't open a site in under a minute.
    Nobody wants to reboot his / her device after an app installation / deinstallation / update.
    Nobody wants to do battery pulls every 24 hours.
    Etc...
    (nobody, as in, 99% of consumers last year)

    BBOS isn't differentiated in any positif or meaningful way anymore, and this is where the vision of traditionalists totally gets blurred. And where they are unable to make an unbiased judgement.
    Yes, for them BBOS worked even though it still has these huge limitations.
    For every normal customer (normal coming from norm, meaning the 99% of consumers who didn't buy a BBOS device in 2013) deciding what device to buy, a BBOS device will never even be considered.

    Posted via CB10
    Nah, I don't fail to realize that. And while I wouldn't say it's not differentiated, I agree that no one wants a phone with the issues you mentioned (so basically, it's differentiation is of little value...except maybe the keyboard among a niche). But conversely, no one wants a phone running a new, immature platform that:
    • Has limited app support
    • Lacks feature parity with other platforms,
    • Has mediocre, dated hardware specs
    • Requires sideloading to cover for ecosystem gaps
    • Was priced at the high end upon introduction


    So even if BB 10 is more appealing than BBOS, it apparently still isn't compelling.
    02-01-14 07:56 PM
  11. Davidro1's Avatar
    .... So even if BB 10 is more appealing than BBOS, it apparently still isn't compelling.
    Most people don't have a spare thousand dollars like I had. I bought a z10 and then a z30. Together they cost me more than a grand.

    Most people don't have oodles of free time like I have.

    Your comments explain why 2013 was hard on BlackBerry. I would not write those comments in the present tense. Everything you wrote was true, then, at that time, i.e. for most of 2013.

    Now it's not the case.


    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 08:08 PM
  12. texn884's Avatar
    Sheep. Sheep. Sheep. Do I need to say more. I have a 4s from work and it is nothing special. I have my own Q10 and always have had a BB and always will.
    02-01-14 08:11 PM
  13. Davidro1's Avatar
    Sheep. Sheep. Sheep. ....
    I'll guess you're saying people are like sheep, and this means therefore that they need to be sold, advertised to, and so on.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 08:18 PM
  14. Sheaner19's Avatar
    His do you figure I. The dated hardware iPhone 5 only has 1 gig of ram vs 2 on BlackBerry even low end q5 has 2! Plus a 1.7 ghz dual core processor for z30 vs iPhone 5 1.5 ghz dual core oh wait I forgot it's 64 bit which none of the apps utilize. Wi fi direct miracast dlna NFC . Fm tuner for Z30.
    1.2 mp front cam vs iPhone 1.2 mp. Hmm air drop for iPhone can't say much more to back up iPhone BlackBerry has been about quality and durability. Try dropping an iPhone on ground! Thought ios 7 was suppose to bring true multitasking? I can't even turn off my iPads display which is really annoying especially when streaming music from YouTube. Just puts uneccasary wear and tear on device. BlackBerry has had 3 major updates on less then a year and what does apple have? 1 major over last 4 yrs which is still full of glitches and bugs don't bash unless you have ground to stand on! That Speaks volumes right there. as for Noone wanting a physical keyboard well go look at the typo accessory for iPhone.......

    #ICHOOSEBLACKBERRY10 #BBM4ALL
    #KeepMoving

    IROC-Z30 But Mostly She Rocks Me!
    02-01-14 08:28 PM
  15. Davidro1's Avatar
    ....
    when streaming music from YouTube. Just puts uneccasary wear and tear on device. BlackBerry has had 3 major updates.... does apple have? 1 major over last 4 yrs which is still full of glitches and bugs....
    All good. But off-topic.

    Thread topic: OS7 sales vs OS10 sales

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 08:38 PM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Work on your reading comprehension and then ask again.
    Since I do know how hard it can be for you, I will give you a hint:

    Because a certain number of users is unable to understand that their personal preferences regarding phones are mostly irrelevant, I like to use empirical data.
    Let's use an example to illustrate that:

    A certain user says, that the non implementation of BIS, is the reason why BB10 failed.
    I then take a look at the market and I see that 99% of phones sold last year , don't have BIS.
    The obvious conclusion is that BIS is totally irrelevant for BlackBerry succeeding with BB10 or not.

    You should really read more carefully.
    I am not saying that 99% of people don't care about BlackBerry.
    I am saying that they don't care about BBOS (with 1% being BBOS' marketshare of phones sold last year).

    It's not that hard to understand what someone writes, really.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes but once you start down that path you can't just stop at BIS and you have to apply it at BB10 too:

    Hub? 99% dont care

    Gestures based OS? 99% don't care and prefer a home button.

    Should I go on?

    Following your logic you can pick any BB10 feature and declare that 99% don't care about it.

    That's where your logic starts to fail.


    When a BB user moves on to a different platform it doesn't mean they dislike everything about their old BB. I'm fact many say they miss some particular BB feature.

    So you say 99% don't care about BIS but in fact many might miss The BIS push email and data compression but they left the platform for other reasons like lack of apps. You bunch them up and presume they all didn't like BIS because they moved to another platform.

    People make choices and they compromise when they make those choices.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 02-01-14 at 09:51 PM.
    02-01-14 09:35 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Let's give you another example:

    Flicking up apps to close them, web OS had it but failed, PlayBook had it and it failed. But wait, now iphone has it.

    How do you apply your logic now? 99% don't care but then overnight they start to care?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 09:58 PM
  18. johnnyuk's Avatar
    It's the "insurmountable" part that I'm not convinced of. And I'm not trying to be contrarian: it's entirely possible that that is true, but I've yet to see any decent explanation of why. Even more, with the rapid hardware advancements and Moore's Law, a brute-force approach of throwing more hardware at the problem might have helped. The 9900 has less than 1 GB of RAM and the OS and apps run within that RAM. BlackBerry could virtualize the whole thing (make it a VM), stick it on a phone with 2 GB RAM, and let it run side-by-side a more modern platform. This would provide a migration path for users, developers, and BlackBerry itself, allowing the legacy platform to be phased out over time as development on the new platform picks up. Apple took a similar approach when it transitioned from System 9 to OS X. It also would have taken some pressure off of BlackBerry to replicate all features in the new platform right out the gate, which is something it obviously wasn't able to do.
    BlackBerry did attempt with BB10 (nee BBX) to port the heavily customised JavaME of BBOS to QNX for just such a purpose but couldn't pull it off. The reasons are probably many but I'd go with:

    - the technical difficulty of the task porting something that is reported to be a labyrinthine spaghetti of inefficient code that developed in an unstructured way over the course of a decade to accommodate newly bolted on kludges that in turn supported each new set of features in each new version of BBOS.

    - the lack of expert programming talent within BlackBerry (BlackBerry was far from attracting the best software developers in the world by the time work on BBX began).

    - BlackBerry's well documented poor project and resource management efficiency.

    An Apple, a Microsoft or a Google could probably have pulled it off. Apple and Microsoft have achieved similarly mountain-moving scale OS porting projects as part of platform migrations.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Davidro1 and southlander like this.
    02-01-14 10:04 PM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    There is absolutely no excuse for innovation without including those old features that soo many users want.

    Once again, the reality distortion field.

    The "soooooooo many users" you refer to, sorry to say, don't actually exist in the general public.

    We have a very very disproportionate share of them here on Crackberry, and they are the squeakiest wheels in the universe.



    Instead of trying to win over users of other platforms, BlackBerry should have focused on doing everything possible to keep the customers it had won over at least once already.

    The kind of business and product strategy that would have been necessary to appease those customers would have driven the company into the ground even faster. On the low end, they would have been chasing a dead userbase that was deserting BlackBerry in droves for cheap Android devices that BlackBerry could NEVER compete with. On the high end, large company heads like Marissa Mayer announced initiatives to dump thousands of corporate Blackberries for "smartphones", ie Android/iOS, since Blackberries were considered too archaic to even be called a smartphone any more.

    BB10 as a general initiative was a fine idea. The problem was it was started too late, the staff and management were too complacent, the company culture was rotting and stodgy, the management did not (and still does not) really understand the consumer market, project management was poor and consistently missed deadlines (surely majorly impacted by round after round of massive layoffs and other company upheavals which must have had a terrible impact on morale), software QA standards were poor, and corporate PR/marketing/communications sucked.

    All this 20-20 hindsight from the traditionalists who choose to ignore or downplay those things and instead opine that it was all about catering to the fast-dwindling legacy userbase are simply looking for rationalizations to fit their own pre-existing worldview, because they have a love-affair with the legacy platform. End of story.

    Legacy OS is like a giant pit of quicksand that sinks any resources you throw into it, never to be seen again. You either run away quick or you and the rest of the company will disappear right into it.
    tinochiko, johnnyuk and Davidro1 like this.
    02-02-14 04:53 AM
  20. afl777's Avatar
    BIS legacy devices at one time couldn't be beaten. They were the cream...used in the time that importance was on communication. Security, BBM, email....nothing matched it. And Blackberry stayed with their strengths instead of moving on.

    Meanwhile android crept onto the scene and apple evolved.

    But the killer for BlackBerry was when the kids got hold of it for BBM and turned it into a cult phone....because most of those were app junkies. These app junkies addiction has grown till they crave apps like an addict craves crack. So where the smaller memory phones were perfect for what they were built for.....suddenly we have freezing phones because of all that is thrown at them.

    And android and apple saw this app addiction and went with it while Blackberry stayed with its strengths.

    Strangely there are a lot of people out there that need a phone /emailer/ messages. That's it. That's all they want. But most don't seem to want to allow that choice, seeming to think everyone should embrace forward technology.

    But as always success comes with choice. And ok push BB10....develop it....move it on to do more. But also, in the background leave the roots...leave the aptly named legacy to satisfy those who still have those simple needs.



    Posted via CB10
    02-02-14 05:17 AM
  21. Omnitech's Avatar
    There are thousands of legacy devices still in use in countries like Africa, many 'new to the user' phones are Pearl or 8520. Even in lots of cases older. They love the BIS BlackBerry and many have said they couldn't afford the data for BB10 phones.

    Let me just clear up a widely-quoted misconception these days.

    People who romanticize BIS generally tout 3 specific features that they claim are unique to BIS:

    1. Low wireless carrier service fees with special "BIS plans" (also lower roaming fees)
    2. Data compression/lower data usage = lower carrier fees
    3. Fast email retrieval from old email servers (POP servers)



    The first point that needs to be made is that Blackberry is not the one who decides what a customer will pay in wireless service charges. That is solely the decision of the wireless carriers.

    EVEN IF there is something particularly efficient about a device using BIS, a wireless carrier has NO OBLIGATION to pass any savings on to their customers, if there actually are any savings in network usage.

    My understanding is that many carriers today in emerging markets have now rolled-out aggressive service plans for competing devices that are very close if not identical in price to what their customers are currently paying for BIS service for legacy BBOS devices. So this alleged "major cost advantage" in day-to-day service fees may in fact be mostly mythical at this point. And as someone here on Crackberry who lives in Indonesia pointed-out the other day, most of the people they know that had been loyal BlackBerry customers started migrating to aggressively-priced Android devices as soon as BBM cross-platform was released. So much for "BIS loyalty". It appears to have been more a matter of "BBM loyalty", at least judging by their observation. But we also know for a fact that Android has been heavily cutting into BBOS marketshare in the developing world in the last year or two.

    Data compression advantages which at one time may have been fairly significant probably aren't as significant today because the vast majority of the data traffic being transmitted today is already compressed, or encrypted which makes it un-compressible. I do not think this is the advantage it once was, and there are many performance problems and other issues caused specifically from routing customer data through the BlackBerry network. For example, there is no way that the Blackberry native web browser in BB10 would have achieved its good performance benchmarks if it were forced to route traffic through the BIS network. You don't get your cake and eat it too.

    Re: roaming fees - it remains to be seen if carriers are still willing to give away so-called "unlimited" service as was the case in the past for roaming BIS customers, especially given the appetite today for rich media content. Remember that Blackberry does not decide what carriers charge customers - the carriers do.

    Re: POP servers - statistics surely demonstrate that POP - a 25-year-old technology - is increasingly irrelevant as far as global email traffic on mobile devices are concerned. Advantages claimed to accrue to BIS' handling of POP are mostly academic in a world which has largely abandoned POP as an email delivery protocol. On the flip side, BIS imposes a variety of serious limitations on email handling that make a device that uses it even less competitive with modern alternatives, handicapping the company's ability to compete.
    02-02-14 05:26 AM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    Yes but existing devices are very old, a new updated and improved BBOS device could easily achieve that through existing consumer and enterprise upgrades while bringing services revenues too.

    I'm afraid I have not seen evidence that you have enough of a grasp on the techical elements to make such a statement with any credibility.

    Specifically, I can think of, and have expressed, many reasons why I think this oft-expressed sentiment (fantasy) of yours is dead wrong.



    But conversely, no one wants a phone running a new, immature platform that:
    • Has limited app support
    • Lacks feature parity with other platforms,
    • Has mediocre, dated hardware specs
    • Requires sideloading to cover for ecosystem gaps
    • Was priced at the high end upon introduction

    • The app catalog for BB10 is VASTLY larger than the app catalog for BBOS.
    • BBOS is missing more competitive features today than BB10 is, BY FAR.
    • A non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Specsmanship is for generic platforms like Android where there are no OS or ecosystem differentiators.
    • BBOS has no alternative whatsoever to its measly app ecosystem, so it comes in last again.
    • Comparable to other devices at the time. Would have fared much better if the software was more polished upon release and marketing/carrier support handled better.
    02-02-14 05:43 AM
  23. Omnitech's Avatar
    just want to know why, for example, we can't run a simple LED app, headless, with an array of colors, without constant bugs or battery life concerns? You'd figure the OS would be readily able to optimize some of these things.

    There is nothing in the basic technology that would prevent BlackBerry from having sophisticated notification features that work reliably and without battery-life issues.

    If you start talking about 3rd-party apps, you are throwing various other variables in there, including how competent those developers are. Most of the people who develop apps like that for BB10 these days are basically one-person companies, so their technical resources are limited.

    BlackBerry just chose not to implement the customizable notification features of BBOS into BB10, and they left out a variety of APIs (software interfaces) that would allow 3rd-party apps to do things they used to do on the legacy devices. (For example: a 3rd-party notification app has no way to see the phone number of an incoming phone call, which then makes it impossible for it to have custom notifications based on who the caller is. The native OS notification features can do that, but in legacy BBOS there was an API that allowed 3rd-party apps to do that too.)

    So those things were basically design decisions, not technology limitations. Many of us hope that they will add-back some of that functionality to BB10.

    As for battery life - a good notification app uses very little battery life. BlackBerry's headless functionality is particularly finicky about this - the software has to pass stringent tests including battery drain tests before BlackBerry will approve it to be distributed through BlackBerry World.
    LatinoLoco24 likes this.
    02-02-14 05:44 AM
  24. Omnitech's Avatar
    BlackBerry did attempt with BB10 (nee BBX) to port the heavily customised JavaME of BBOS to QNX for just such a purpose but couldn't pull it off. The reasons are probably many but I'd go with:

    - the technical difficulty of the task porting something that is reported to be a labyrinthine spaghetti of inefficient code that developed in an unstructured way over the course of a decade to accommodate newly bolted on kludges that in turn supported each new set of features in each new version of BBOS.

    - the lack of expert programming talent within BlackBerry (BlackBerry was far from attracting the best software developers in the world by the time work on BBX began).

    - BlackBerry's well documented poor project and resource management efficiency.

    An Apple, a Microsoft or a Google could probably have pulled it off. Apple and Microsoft have achieved similarly mountain-moving scale OS porting projects as part of platform migrations.

    Add to that:

    1. Blackberry laid-off or re-assigned most of the legacy OS development team anyway. In short: that ship has sailed.
    2. I'd be willing to bet that finding good JavaME developers these days is getting harder and harder. Java's heydey on handheld devices was during the era of Java phones from companies like Nokia in addition to RIM. Those platforms are basically dead now, so most likely development resources and people that know how to use them are getting more and more scarce. The BBOS section of BlackBerry World is like a ghost town with tumbleweed blowing through it, these days. Most of the well-known apps have either been abandoned or frozen in time.
    02-02-14 05:52 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Let me just clear up a widely-quoted misconception these days.

    People who romanticize BIS generally tout 3 specific features that they claim are unique to BIS:

    1. Low wireless carrier service fees with special "BIS plans" (also lower roaming fees)
    2. Data compression/lower data usage = lower carrier fees
    3. Fast email retrieval from old email servers (POP servers)



    The first point that needs to be made is that Blackberry is not the one who decides what a customer will pay in wireless service charges. That is solely the decision of the wireless carriers.

    EVEN IF there is something particularly efficient about a device using BIS, a wireless carrier has NO OBLIGATION to pass any savings on to their customers, if there actually are any savings in network usage.

    My understanding is that many carriers today in emerging markets have now rolled-out aggressive service plans for competing devices that are very close if not identical in price to what their customers are currently paying for BIS service for legacy BBOS devices. So this alleged "major cost advantage" in day-to-day service fees may in fact be mostly mythical at this point. And as someone here on Crackberry who lives in Indonesia pointed-out the other day, most of the people they know that had been loyal BlackBerry customers started migrating to aggressively-priced Android devices as soon as BBM cross-platform was released. So much for "BIS loyalty". It appears to have been more a matter of "BBM loyalty", at least judging by their observation. But we also know for a fact that Android has been heavily cutting into BBOS marketshare in the developing world in the last year or two.

    Data compression advantages which at one time may have been fairly significant probably aren't as significant today because the vast majority of the data traffic being transmitted today is already compressed, or encrypted which makes it un-compressible. I do not think this is the advantage it once was, and there are many performance problems and other issues caused specifically from routing customer data through the BlackBerry network. For example, there is no way that the Blackberry native web browser in BB10 would have achieved its good performance benchmarks if it were forced to route traffic through the BIS network. You don't get your cake and eat it too.

    Re: roaming fees - it remains to be seen if carriers are still willing to give away so-called "unlimited" service as was the case in the past for roaming BIS customers, especially given the appetite today for rich media content. Remember that Blackberry does not decide what carriers charge customers - the carriers do.

    Re: POP servers - statistics surely demonstrate that POP - a 25-year-old technology - is increasingly irrelevant as far as global email traffic on mobile devices are concerned. Advantages claimed to accrue to BIS' handling of POP are mostly academic in a world which has largely abandoned POP as an email delivery protocol. On the flip side, BIS imposes a variety of serious limitations on email handling that make a device that uses it even less competitive with modern alternatives, handicapping the company's ability to compete.
    Can you please show us these global email traffic statistics? I'm actually very curious.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-02-14 05:55 AM
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