02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It's simple, if those users will have no new BBOS or BBOS like device to buy they will buy something else.

    Why hand them on a plate to other platforms? They sure as helll aren't buying BB10.

    Cater for them or loose them, it's simple.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    No you are just wrong .. they might want a physical keyboard phone with a decent sized screen running the apps that they want to run. Yes there are some that want just an e-mail texting phone but that is just a niche of a niche.
    02-01-14 01:28 PM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    No you are just wrong .. they might want a physical keyboard phone with a decent sized screen running the apps that they want to run. Yes there are some that want just an e-mail texting phone but that is just a niche of a niche.
    If I niche of a niche amounts to 20-30 millions or more why not make a device for them?

    What is your solution for these people? BB10 is obviously not the solution so what do you suggest for them?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 01:36 PM
  3. Davidro1's Avatar
    If I niche of a niche amounts to 20-30 millions or more why not make a device for them?

    What is your solution for these people? BB10 is obviously not the solution so what do you suggest for ...
    Is it appropriate to post to ask belfastdjspatchrr to post only to stay on topic, never to challenge any other participants to answer his "you oriented" questioning.


    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 02:22 PM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Is it appropriate to post to ask belfastdjspatchrr to post only to stay on topic, never to challenge any other participants to answer his "you oriented" questioning.


    Posted via CB10
    No, it's not appropriate. I'm only responding to other posters. Besides, we're still on topic.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 02:43 PM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    But there's actually more individuals like me (that like legacy bb) then individuals like you (that like bb10)

    The Z10 did so badly it had to be wrote down.

    Wake up and smell the coffee. You might like your Z10 but as a product it was a complete failure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Funnily enough, you introduce a new metric yet again.
    And under that metric, BBOS loses yet again.
    It's called customer satisfaction and BBOS loses every single time, when it gets compared to Android or iOS.
    This trend isn't new btw, and I find reports from as early as 2009, that say how Android and iOS are always coming out on top.

    Since you confuse once again, your own preferences, with the preferences of 99% of smartphone users, your statement is nonsensical once again.
    Customer satisfaction ratings from the beginning of 2013, rate BlackBerries with BBOS under the satisfaction level of feature phones.
    And that tells pretty much all of the story.

    Since you still don't understand that one can get a legacy BlackBerry from his employer that one doesn't like, which still counts as a device sold for BlackBerry nonetheless, your comments about "preferences" and "liking" are not to be taken seriously.

    99% of the market wants a touchscreen phone, that is like an Android, iOS or BB10 device.
    You must have a huge problem to understand what that actually means for BBOS, right?
    Your inability to make a link between market realities and why BlackBerry had to adapt is astonishing.
    And your vendetta against BB10 because you would need to pay for professional email services is just sad.
    But overall, one could qualify your statements about the market as ridiculous.

    If I niche of a niche amounts to 20-30 millions or more why not make a device for them?

    What is your solution for these people? BB10 is obviously not the solution so what do you suggest for them?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If the 20-30 millions are willong to pay about 1.5-2k dollar per device, I'd actually agree with you.
    If they don't, then it doesn't make sense, because it doesn't make enough.
    You're a business owner....
    Are you really that clueless?

    The solution for these people is simple:
    Go with the times, or become like you.
    One thing will never happen though:
    A comeback of BBOS.

    Posted via CB10
    Davidro1 and Omnitech like this.
    02-01-14 02:48 PM
  6. Bbnivende's Avatar
    If I niche of a niche amounts to 20-30 millions or more why not make a device for them?

    What is your solution for these people? BB10 is obviously not the solution so what do you suggest for them?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Your argument was that BBOS continues to sell satisfying that Niche. I just do not see 20 million BBOS 7 devices being sold once BB brings out Jakarta and reduces the price of the Q5 and comes out with a Q30.

    Having said that I have no issue with BlackBerry further developing the 9900 if they perceive a market with business or government buyers.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    02-01-14 02:58 PM
  7. tinochiko's Avatar
    But there's actually more individuals like me (that like legacy bb) then individuals like you (that like bb10)

    The Z10 did so badly it had to be wrote down.

    Wake up and smell the coffee. You might like your Z10 but as a product it was a complete failure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The difference is your number is decreasing and mine is increasing,

    Remove the tissues you've stuffed up your nose and smell the brand new coffee instead of convincing yourself that your stale coffee is good enough..

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    johnnyuk likes this.
    02-01-14 03:01 PM
  8. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Thank you, Wes. This is the point I repeatedly have been trying to make, though you admittedly did so in far fewer words. BlackBerry went from a product that was differentiated but failing to a product that is less differentiated and also failing. Laziridis himself reportedly was against the Z10 launch strategy because the device was undifferentiated.

    BlackBerry did not--and does not--have the luxury of time or the safety of market dominance to take as long as it has to transition away from a feature-rich, but long-in-the-tooth platform. And while the BBOS limitations might have been too great to overcome without a platform change, the fact that it took BlackBerry so long to release a feature-incomplete, beta quality (yes, 10.0 and 10.1 were beta quality, IMO...maybe less) platform doesn't exactly suggest that it was any easier to adapt QNX to smartphones.

    BlackBerry erroneously pursued a red-ocean strategy, competing in a market already saturated with competition. Instead of trying to win over users of other platforms, BlackBerry should have focused on doing everything possible to keep the customers it had won over at least once already. This means stemming the loss of market share in emerging markets and keeping enterprise and government customers on BlackBerry solutions. After stabilizing the base, it then can try to go after under-served areas of the market or aim for new markets altogether. All his comments so far suggest Chen is doing this.
    What you fail to realise, is that BBOS is even less than differentiated in today's market.
    Nobody wants BIS anymore.
    Nobody wants a keyboard anymore.
    Nobody wants a browser that can't open a site in under a minute.
    Nobody wants to reboot his / her device after an app installation / deinstallation / update.
    Nobody wants to do battery pulls every 24 hours.
    Etc...
    (nobody, as in, 99% of consumers last year)

    BBOS isn't differentiated in any positif or meaningful way anymore, and this is where the vision of traditionalists totally gets blurred. And where they are unable to make an unbiased judgement.
    Yes, for them BBOS worked even though it still has these huge limitations.
    For every normal customer (normal coming from norm, meaning the 99% of consumers who didn't buy a BBOS device in 2013) deciding what device to buy, a BBOS device will never even be considered.

    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-01-14 03:01 PM
  9. tinochiko's Avatar
    What you fail to realise, is that BBOS is even less than differentiated in today's market.
    Nobody wants BIS anymore.
    Nobody wants a keyboard anymore.
    Nobody wants a browser that can't open a site in under a minute.
    Nobody wants to reboot his / her device after an app installation / deinstallation / update.
    Nobody wants to do battery pulls every 24 hours.
    Etc...
    (nobody, as in, 99% of consumers last year)

    BBOS isn't differentiated in any positif or meaningful way anymore, and this is where the vision of traditionalists totally gets blurred. And where they are unable to make an unbiased judgement.
    Yes, for them BBOS worked even though it still has these huge limitations.
    For every normal customer (normal coming from norm, meaning the 99% of consumers who didn't buy a BBOS device in 2013) deciding what device to buy, a BBOS device will never even be considered.

    Posted via CB10
    Err I agree mostly, just disagree on the keyboard thing, I think keyboards are here to stay..

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    Bbnivende likes this.
    02-01-14 03:02 PM
  10. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Err I agree mostly, just disagree on the keyboard thing, I think keyboards are here to stay..

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    I personally like them as well.
    I am thinking about buying a used Q10 actually.
    But purely speaking in sale numbers, 99% of phones sold last year weren't phones with keyboard.
    This could mean 2 things: BlackBerries keyboard offerings weren't good enough last year, or keyboard devices as a whole will pretty much disappear.

    I see it a little bit like Bbnivende here, that 3 inches is just too small for a smartphone screen nowadays and that the keyboard form factor needs to evolve a little bit.
    Personally I am a huge fan of keyboard devices, especially creative slider constructions.
    I just doubt that they will continue to sell in decent enough numbers to warrant their future production.

    Obviously I hope that I am wrong considering this one point.

    It's simple, if those users will have no new BBOS or BBOS like device to buy they will buy something else.

    Why hand them on a plate to other platforms? They sure as helll aren't buying BB10.

    Cater for them or loose them, it's simple.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If my choice is, to cater to a niche that doesn't make money, and destroys my future positioning in the market, or to ignore them....
    Then they will get ignored.
    Because everything else doesn't make sense.

    I don't know why you struggle so much to accept that this reasoning is totally acceptable.
    Selling 20 millon devices, with most of them being in the regions of 200$, isn't exactly something one wants to achieve when he was as great as BlackBerry once was...

    Yes, getting BBOS users on board would be nice, and a 200$ Jakarta will help immensely.
    But if my choice is to cater to the 1%, that doesn't really make money, or to make my phone acceptable for the 99%, I sure as hell will try to persue a strategy that will make myself more attractive for the minority of 99%.
    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 02-01-14 at 03:31 PM.
    02-01-14 03:16 PM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The difference is your number is decreasing and mine is increasing,

    Remove the tissues you've stuffed up your nose and smell the brand new coffee instead of convincing yourself that your stale coffee is good enough..

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    Actually yours are decreasing too, only a little over 1 million BB10 devices sold in the last quarter.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 03:27 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I personally like them as well.
    I am thinking about buying a used Q10 actually.
    But purely speaking in sale numbers, 99% of phones sold last year weren't phones with keyboard.
    This could mean 2 things: BlackBerries keyboard offerings weren't good enough last year, or keyboard devices as a whole will pretty much disappear.

    I see it a little bit like Bbnivende here, that 3 inches is just too small for a smartphone screen nowadays and that the keyboard form factor needs to evolve a little bit.
    Personally I am a huge fan of keyboard devices, especially creative slider constructions.
    I just doubt that they will continue to sell in decent enough numbers to warrant their future production.

    Obviously I hope that I am wrong considering this one point.



    If my choice is, to cater to a niche that doesn't make money, and destroys my future positioning in the market, or to ignore them....
    Then they will get ignored.
    Because everything else doesn't make sense.

    I don't know why you struggle so much to accept that this reasoning is totally acceptable.
    Selling 20 millon devices, with most of them being in the regions of 200$, isn't exactly something one wants to achieve...

    Yes, getting BBOS users on board would be nice, and a 200$ Jakarta will help immensely.
    But if my choice is to cater to the 1%, that doesn't really make money, or to make my phone acceptable for the 99%, I sure as hell will try to persue a strategy that will make myself more attractive for the minority of 99%.
    Posted via CB10
    Yes, nobody wants a $200 X 20 million turnover + service revenues. Ok, you make a lot of sense. That sounds like pocket change to you.







    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    MarsupilamiX and bobauckland like this.
    02-01-14 03:32 PM
  13. afl777's Avatar
    There are thousands of legacy devices still in use in countries like Africa, many 'new to the user' phones are Pearl or 8520. Even in lots of cases older. They love the BIS BlackBerry and many have said they couldn't afford the data for BB10 phones.

    Then businesses....some changing over to BB10 but many still preferring legacy.

    Youngsters, who can pay 5 per month for a BIS bolt-on and BBM, Whatsapp, and FB all month.

    And then folk like me. Someone who lives their Z10....loves owning and using it....but if getting a little impatient at the issues that have been there....for me....for months. Like email, gmail, aol daily asking for passwords. The little things that become irritants. And I sometimes think "should I change back to my Curve....should I get a 9720 which is slightly bigger keyboard" and I am sorely tempted.

    So there are a lot of different people, from all walks of life, all with different needs and for many the BIS legacy devices are perfect.
    bobauckland likes this.
    02-01-14 03:33 PM
  14. tinochiko's Avatar
    Actually yours are decreasing too, only a little over 1 million BB10 devices sold in the last quarter.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Compared to 0 just over a year ago, that's an increase..

    EDIT; and if you review the graph showing the peak legacy sales, you'll realise just how far legacy has fallen, there's no way you can say marketing has nothing to.do with anything, people were just fed up, the cost of legacy no longer outweighed the benefits.. selling a few million devices is nothing if you used to sell multi millions..

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    johnnyuk likes this.
    02-01-14 03:34 PM
  15. tinochiko's Avatar
    I personally like them as well.
    I am thinking about buying a used Q10 actually.
    But purely speaking in sale numbers, 99% of phones sold last year weren't phones with keyboard.
    This could mean 2 things: BlackBerries keyboard offerings weren't good enough last year, or keyboard devices as a whole will pretty much disappear.

    I see it a little bit like Bbnivende here, that 3 inches is just too small for a smartphone screen nowadays and that the keyboard form factor needs to evolve a little bit.
    Personally I am a huge fan of keyboard devices, especially creative slider constructions.
    I just doubt that they will continue to sell in decent enough numbers to warrant their future production.

    Obviously I hope that I am wrong considering this one point.



    If my choice is, to cater to a niche that doesn't make money, and destroys my future positioning in the market, or to ignore them....
    Then they will get ignored.
    Because everything else doesn't make sense.

    I don't know why you struggle so much to accept that this reasoning is totally acceptable.
    Selling 20 millon devices, with most of them being in the regions of 200$, isn't exactly something one wants to achieve when he was as great as BlackBerry once was...

    Yes, getting BBOS users on board would be nice, and a 200$ Jakarta will help immensely.
    But if my choice is to cater to the 1%, that doesn't really make money, or to make my phone acceptable for the 99%, I sure as hell will try to persue a strategy that will make myself more attractive for the minority of 99%.
    Posted via CB10
    Yeah I agree, I would buy a solid slider otherwise Q10 as second BlackBerry

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    02-01-14 03:35 PM
  16. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yes, nobody wants a $200 X 20 million turnover + service revenues. Ok, you make a lot of sense. That sounds like pocket change to you.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Compared to what BlackBerry already had achieved, this is closer to pocket change than you imagine.
    It's also peanuts when compared to the overall marketsize.

    More than 1 billion smartphones were sold last year, so only selling a total of 20 million smartphones in the 200$ range, is not what a global player should have as a goal.
    For a local manufacturer that only sells in one country, 20 million devices for 200$ could be fine.

    Edit:
    Samsung sold about 40 million S4 devices since the launch.
    And about 10 million Note 3 were sold in about 60 days.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 02-01-14 at 03:57 PM.
    02-01-14 03:38 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Compared to what BlackBerry already had achieved, this is closer to pocket change than you imagine.
    It's also peanuts when compared to the overall marketsize.

    More than 1 billion smartphones were sold last year, so only selling a total of 20 million smartphones in the 200$ range, is not what a global player should have as a goal.
    For a local manufacturer that only sells in one country, 20 million devices for 200$ could be fine.

    Posted via CB10
    I'll ask you this then, is BB in a position to refuse 20 million X $200 + service revenues right now regardless of what they achieved in the past?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 03:54 PM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I'll ask you this then, is BB in a position to refuse 20 million X $200 + service revenues right now regardless of what they achieved in the past?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The problem is that your premise doesn't work...
    There are no 20 million BBOS sales anymore.
    The potential isn't there anymore, which therefore makes your question useless.
    BlackBerry has BBOS devices for 200$ that they sell right now.
    And they still don't achieve these 20 million sales a year.

    What's the point of asking your question?

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 03:59 PM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The problem is that your premise doesn't work...
    There are no 20 million BBOS sales anymore.
    The potential isn't there anymore, which therefore makes your question useless.
    BlackBerry has BBOS devices for 200$ that they sell right now.
    And they still don't achieve these 20 million sales a year.

    What's the point of asking your question?

    Posted via CB10
    Yes but existing devices are very old, a new updated and improved BBOS device could easily achieve that through existing consumer and enterprise upgrades while bringing services revenues too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 04:07 PM
  20. Sheaner19's Avatar
    Bring back all the os7 features to bb10 then we're laughing. Really miss the auto on/off for alarms and what not. BlackBerry has had 3 major os updates in less then a year. And what's apple got? 4 yrs and one major update that's still full of glitches and bugs. That to me speaks huge volumes. Did you know that everything you say to siri gets stored on apple's servers for 2 yrs!

    #ICHOOSEBLACKBERRY10 #KeepMoving
    #BBM4ALL

    IROC-Z30 But Mostly She Rocks Me!
    02-01-14 04:09 PM
  21. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yes but existing devices are very old, a new updated and improved BBOS device could easily achieve that through existing consumer and enterprise upgrades while bringing services revenues too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The market already has spoken. It has no interest in BBOS anymore.
    You still don't get that?
    Apply more reading comprehension please.

    Enterprises have been migrating a way from BES for quite some time already and BYOD trends have further eroded BlackBerry's marketshare in the enterprise.

    Emerging markets either buy locally or cheap Androids from well known manufacturers.

    There is no room for growth when we talk about BBOS.
    That ship is gone.
    Welcome to 2014.

    And just to state it clearly, for the case of you not getting it:
    A new and improved BBOS device would change nothing at all, if it doesn't perform equally with a similarly priced Android or WP device.
    And we all know that BBOS is incapable of doing that.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 04:11 PM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Bring back all the os7 features to bb10 then we're laughing. Really miss the auto on/off for alarms and what not. BlackBerry has had 3 major os updates in less then a year. And what's apple got? 4 yrs and one major update that's still full of glitches and bugs. That to me speaks huge volumes. Did you know that everything you say to siri gets stored on apple's servers for 2 yrs!

    #ICHOOSEBLACKBERRY10 #KeepMoving
    #BBM4ALL

    IROC-Z30 But Mostly She Rocks Me!
    That feature it's actually impossible in BB10, it was declared "too complex to implement" and it will never make a comeback. Sad no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 04:16 PM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The market already has spoken. It has no interest in BBOS anymore.
    You still don't get that?
    Apply more reading comprehension please.

    Enterprises have been migrating a way from BES for quite some time already and BYOD trends have further eroded BlackBerry's marketshare in the enterprise.

    Emerging markets either buy locally or cheap Androids from well known manufacturers.

    There is no room for growth when we talk about BBOS.
    That ship is gone.
    Welcome to 2014.

    And just to state it clearly, for the case of you not getting it:
    A new and improved BBOS device would change nothing at all, if it doesn't perform equally with a similarly priced Android or WP device.
    And we all know that BBOS is incapable of doing that.

    Posted via CB10
    Then why are you wasting your time here? According to you there's no hope for BB between BBOS and the BB10 failure. Remember how you pinned your hopes on the Q5? It was a failure even after prices dropped. Jakarta will be just the same.

    At least I hold some hope for BB, it's just not BB10.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    02-01-14 04:19 PM
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    That feature it's actually impossible in BB10, it was declared "too complex to implement" and it will never make a comeback. Sad no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What is sad is your vendetta against BB10 and your limited understanding of the current market paradigm.

    A sadness that you spread out in every single one of your posts in this thread and threads similar to it.

    Just the fact of you still whining that this feature is gone and your inability to accept that 99+% of smartphone users literally couldn't care less about such a feature, shows how disconnected you are from the market once again.

    Not even talking about your outlandish statements of BBOS being still competitive in 2014.
    These are the moments where I laugh at my phone, and people around me wonder why.

    Posted via CB10
    02-01-14 04:22 PM
  25. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Then why are you wasting your time here? According to you there's no hope for BB between BBOS and the BB10 failure. Remember how you pinned your hopes on the Q5? It was a failure even after prices dropped. Jakarta will be just the same.

    At least I hold some hope for BB, it's just not BB10.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I didn't pin my hopes on the Q5 after it was released, no.
    Go through my posts, and you will see that I declared the Q5 as being DOA after I saw the price.
    Same thing I said about the Z30, btw.

    And you really really really have to work on your reading comprehension.
    I never said that BB10 is hopeless.
    I just never did that.

    That is you projecting your thoughts onto my posts, and I have no idea why you do that.
    I always said that if BlackBerry has a chance of surviving then this will happen under BB10.

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk likes this.
    02-01-14 04:27 PM
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