02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    My EAS account doesn't seem to be anywhere near instant. I deleted several messages over 11 hours ago using my PC, yet they still remain on my phone after several refresh attempts.

    Then something is wrong with either your configuration, your equipment, your provider, or your connectivity.
    Davidro1 likes this.
    01-31-14 02:55 AM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You can't push messages from an email server that itself does not support push. This is the case with POP.

    What the RIM NOC does is constantly poll the POP server, and when it sees a new message on it, it forwards the first part of it to the handheld.

    The time delay between the appearance of that message on the POP server and its appearance on the BlackBerry could be as long as 15 minutes, if there are no other delays in the RIM or carrier networks.

    Historically, any other providers other than a very small number that RIM had written a "BIS plugin" for were polled once every 15 minutes only. However in late 2008 RIM reputedly added IMAP IDLE support to BIS so if your provider supported that, in theory you would get new email notifications quickly.

    However RIM's own knowledgebase articles contradict this, here is an article last updated in 2011:

    KB12373-BlackBerry Internet Service real-time delivery of email messages from AOL, Gmail and Yahoo! Mail accounts



    "AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo! Mail allow for real-time delivery of email messages to BlackBerry Internet Service subscribers. This real-time delivery includes any other email accounts that are hosted by the respective organizations.

    Email accounts that are not hosted by these organizations are polled for new messages every 15 minutes.
    "




    Here's another article last updated in 2012:

    KB13374-Delayed email message delivery to the BlackBerry smartphone



    "The BlackBerry smartphone might receive email messages up to 15 minutes after the messages arrive on the source mailbox. This is by design. The BlackBerry Infrastructure checks for new email messages every 15 minutes. If a new email message is received, it is sent to the BlackBerry and the BlackBerry Infrastructure will check for new email again in 3 minutes. If no email is found, the BlackBerry Infrastructure will wait 15 minutes to check again.

    Note: This delay does not affect all mail protocols. AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo! Mail and MSN, Hotmail, Windows live mail allows real-time delivery of email messages to BlackBerry Internet Services. For more information see: KB12373.
    "

    Dude, can a Legacy BB ever pool for emails? No
    Are all emails pushed to a Legacy BB? Yes

    Why the helll are you arguing about this?

    There's push and there's instant push and then there's pooling. BBOS doesn't do pooling.

    EVERYBODY knows how BIS email works, and it's always PUSHED from the NOC to the device.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    01-31-14 03:32 AM
  3. Omnitech's Avatar
    EVERYBODY knows how BIS email works, and it's always PUSHED from the NOC to the device.

    Except you, apparently.
    01-31-14 03:55 AM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    My EAS account doesn't seem to be anywhere near instant. I deleted several messages over 11 hours ago using my PC, yet they still remain on my phone after several refresh attempts.

    By the way - as I told you yesterday in response to your question on one of the 10.2.1.1925 threads about that OS build - that build has known issues with EAS, and I advised you to avoid it if you are using EAS until something with those bugs fixed is released.

    One of the bugs manifests itself as delayed mail reception.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/bb10-le...-issue-887352/
    01-31-14 03:58 AM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Except you, apparently.
    You're loosing all credibility here by claiming BIS email is not always push. Does a BBOS device ever pool for new emails? That's a big NO

    And why are you avoiding the question? Have YOU owned a BB7 device?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    01-31-14 04:03 AM
  6. tinochiko's Avatar
    OmniTech just wondering if you're planning to respond to my reply to you regarding legacy -bb10 transition?

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    01-31-14 05:13 AM
  7. lnichols's Avatar

    You may think POP is useless because it offers very few features, but that's exactly why it works so well.
    Well luckily for you BB10 supports POP and it works exactly like the protocol was designed to.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-14 07:59 AM
  8. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    So @ Omnitech, have you owned a BB7 device or are you basing your BBOS opinions in BB6 alone when comparing it to BB10?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have only owned one BBOS device (a 9810), coming from an Android.
    OS 7 was so incredibly antiquated when it came down to UI and how it handled things under the hood.
    Therefore, I don't even want to know how bad OS 6 was.

    Your question can be considered totally irrelevant, useless and probably defaming.
    This is the case because Omnitech's credibility is in no way affected by the fact of him having used/not having used an OS7 device.

    Everybody and their dog knows, that OS7 performed incredibly bad, when it came down to everything that wasn't messaging.
    To even suggest that OS7 "may have been fine", shows once again how disconnected you are with the current market realities.

    BlackBerry 's declining marketshare and userbase, happened under OS7 for a very simple reason:
    It wasn't as good as the competition.
    End of the story.

    You're loosing all credibility here by claiming BIS email is not always push. Does a BBOS device ever pool for new emails? That's a big NO

    And why are you avoiding the question? Have YOU owned a BB7 device?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It's getting sad, really.
    As I said above, if he had one, or not, is totally irrelevant and doesn't change one thing for an analysis on how the market developed since the iPhone.
    iOS and Android made BBOS obsolete.
    And that is still the end of the story.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 and Omnitech like this.
    01-31-14 08:39 AM
  9. AdamWeishaupt's Avatar
    Hey blackberry i want a typo with all buttons as accessoire for my z30

    best of two worlds, remember ?


    And make it a qwertz pease.
    01-31-14 08:49 AM
  10. AdamWeishaupt's Avatar
    BlackBerry os10 is not obsolete for security reasons. The kernel structure of the qnx is very safe.

    But for iOS and android users security always was a secondary feature...
    Davidro1 likes this.
    01-31-14 08:51 AM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Well luckily for you BB10 supports POP and it works exactly like the protocol was designed to.

    Posted via CB10
    It's not push though, the device will have to search for new emails every 15 minutes 24/7.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    01-31-14 08:54 AM
  12. AdamWeishaupt's Avatar
    We tested several options bit NONE Is as safe as bb10!

    Its balance feature is unique and allows the safe running of android apps.

    Better than knox.

    Way better than ios.

    From a professional view concerning security BlackBerry os10 is simply the most advanced best os on the market.
    Omnitech likes this.
    01-31-14 08:54 AM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I have only owned one BBOS device (a 9810), coming from an Android.
    OS 7 was so incredibly antiquated when it came down to UI and how it handled things under the hood.
    Therefore, I don't even want to know how bad OS 6 was.

    Your question can be considered totally irrelevant, useless and probably defaming.
    This is the case because Omnitech's credibility is in no way affected by the fact of him having used/not having used an OS7 device.

    Everybody and their dog knows, that OS7 performed incredibly bad, when it came down to everything that wasn't messaging.
    To even suggest that OS7 "may have been fine", shows once again how disconnected you are with the current market realities.

    BlackBerry 's declining marketshare and userbase, happened under OS7 for a very simple reason:
    It wasn't as good as the competition.
    End of the story.



    It's getting sad, really.
    As I said above, if he had one, or not, is totally irrelevant and doesn't change one thing for an analysis on how the market developed since the iPhone.
    iOS and Android made BBOS obsolete.
    And that is still the end of the story.

    Posted via CB10
    Any particular reasons why you're answering questions for Omnitech?

    Nobody asked you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    01-31-14 08:55 AM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Any particular reasons why you're answering questions for Omnitech?

    Nobody asked you.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I am not answering any questions on his behalf, since I clearly have no idea if he had such a device, or not.
    Could it be that your reading comprehension needs some fine tuning once again?

    I am merely telling you that your posts are pretty sad in certain regards.
    For example: defaming somebody who clearly understands the current market paradigm way better than you.
    Or: Implying that Omnitech isn't qualified to make the statements he does because he may have not used an OS7 device.
    Who cares about it?
    OS6 was bad compared to the competition and the same goes for OS7.

    I would go as far as to say, that one mustn't have used any BBOS device, to come to the conclusion that the OS is obsolete.
    The sale numbers over 10+ years of commercial availability speak for themselves anyhow.

    Since I didn't reply for him, I will tell you that we are actually in agreement on this one point:
    Nobody asked me, which is one of two reasons why I didn't answer the question you posed Omnitech.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-14 09:21 AM
  15. lnichols's Avatar
    It's not push though, the device will have to search for new emails every 15 minutes 24/7.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    POP was not designed to be push, it is designed to be pulled.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-14 09:59 AM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The physical keyboard might be equivalent to a manual transmission and not the OS.

    I do not need BIS and none of the other BBOS owners that I know need BIS. On the other hand I do want a fast browser and the ability to run the top apps . I want Google maps to run as well on a BlackBerry as it does on the iphone or android device.

    I realize though that there are consumers out there who need or want BIS. If BlackBerry can make money selling BBOS phones I say great, sell BBOS phones. I do not care that BelfastDispatcher wants to use a 9900 and he should not care that others prefer a BB10 device. I see nothing wrong with BlackBerry selling an upgraded 9900. There are users who are willing to pay a premium for such devices.

    In fact, I think BlackBerry should be selling the Jakarta with BIS and a Jakarta without BIS for markets that lack sophisticated cell phone infrastructure.
    Davidro1 likes this.
    01-31-14 10:50 AM
  17. ssbtech's Avatar
    Then something is wrong with either your configuration, your equipment, your provider, or your connectivity.
    Interesting, because new messages show up just fine. Deleting a message on the phone deletes it from the mailbox and Outlook is updated on the next send/receive operation.

    Also having issues with the calendar showing data from fields from the wrong appointment.

    I'm sorry, but I don't see how I can screw up the configuration. There's a username, password and an option to sync email/contacts/calendar/etc...


    By the way - as I told you yesterday in response to your question on one of the 10.2.1.1925 threads about that OS build - that build has known issues with EAS, and I advised you to avoid it if you are using EAS until something with those bugs fixed is released.

    One of the bugs manifests itself as delayed mail reception.
    I am not updating to 10.2.1. I'm on 10.2
    01-31-14 11:29 AM
  18. ssbtech's Avatar
    Well luckily for you BB10 supports POP and it works exactly like the protocol was designed to.
    I don't want my phone constantly polling for messages for 6 email accounts every 15 min, 24/7.
    01-31-14 11:31 AM
  19. ssbtech's Avatar
    Except you, apparently.
    Are you disputing this?

    BIS polls the email server, that we know. Email server to BIS is NOT push. We all know that.

    BIS to the phone IS push. There might be a delay, but it is pushed to the phone.

    The entire path, email server to BIS to the phone might not be push in the sense EAS is, but the final portion of the path certainly is push.
    01-31-14 11:34 AM
  20. Nine54's Avatar
    The physical keyboard might be equivalent to a manual transmission and not the OS.

    I do not need BIS and none of the other BBOS owners that I know need BIS. On the other hand I do want a fast browser and the ability to run the top apps . I want Google maps to run as well on a BlackBerry as it does on the iphone or android device.

    I realize though that there are consumers out there who need or want BIS. If BlackBerry can make money selling BBOS phones I say great, sell BBOS phones. I do not care that BelfastDispatcher wants to use a 9900 and he should not care that others prefer a BB10 device. I see nothing wrong with BlackBerry selling an upgraded 9900. There are users who are willing to pay a premium for such devices.

    In fact, I think BlackBerry should be selling the Jakarta with BIS and a Jakarta without BIS for markets that lack sophisticated cell phone infrastructure.

    Fair enough, and I thought the same thing regarding the analogy. But I wanted to convey two points, in addition to the keyboard:
    1. Other features and functionality from BBOS--BIS just being one of them--were not carried over. This includes the UI, physical call, end, action key buttons, the trackpad, keyboard shortcuts, etc.
    2. "Fixing" something isn't the same as replacing it entirely. If there are issues with my house that need fixing, I can't level my house and build a new one and declare that I "fixed" my house.


    Obviously, BlackBerry determined that would be easier to replace BBOS entirely rather than fix the issues with it (assuming they could be fixed without replacement). We likely won't really know if that's true or not, but given all the delays leading up to the BB 10 rollout and the number of features from BBOS that were deprecated or not yet carried over, it doesn't seem like it was easy as BlackBerry originally thought.
    01-31-14 12:01 PM
  21. tinochiko's Avatar
    Fair enough, and I thought the same thing regarding the analogy. But I wanted to convey two points, in addition to the keyboard:
    1. Other features and functionality from BBOS--BIS just being one of them--were not carried over. This includes the UI, physical call, end, action key buttons, the trackpad, keyboard shortcuts, etc.
    2. "Fixing" something isn't the same as replacing it entirely. If there are issues with my house that need fixing, I can't level my house and build a new one and declare that I "fixed" my house.


    Obviously, BlackBerry determined that would be easier to replace BBOS entirely rather than fix the issues with it (assuming they could be fixed without replacement). We likely won't really know if that's true or not, but given all the delays leading up to the BB 10 rollout and the number of features from BBOS that were deprecated or not yet carried over, it doesn't seem like it was easy as BlackBerry originally thought.
    But is this situation your house is literally falling apart, it might have a great washing machine that's works like new even though it's 10+ years old, but the house itself is just too old, you have no choice but to rebuild the whole house or else sooner or later it will break down completely,

    To make this analogy even better, let's say you have a wife and she doesn't want to move, she had her best times in that house, she loves the washing machine it works just the way she wants it too,she doesn't want to learn how to use the new washing machines that you would put in the new house, this one works just fine... so you build your new house, but you can only support her in the old one for so long especially having to maintain the new house too..

    I think blackberry made the right choice, the way they did it is another decision, bit legacy devices were no longer (for the general consumer) a stand alone device, even now, most people who I've managed to show the reality of BlackBerry to, will consider it initially only as a second phone, now business users (who arguably knew better the feature of the phone and how to use them) will be less willing to drop it and it's understandable, which is why I emphasise that the transition for Legacy users needs some attention ,

    Losing the trust of users who only used your phone for one or two of this features, and who'll drop you at a moments notice when you're no longer seen to be the phone of the moment, is not as bad as losing the trust of those who know how best to use your devices and truly appreciate them..

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    Omnitech likes this.
    01-31-14 12:21 PM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    POP was not designed to be push, it is designed to be pulled.

    Posted via CB10
    The NOC does that and then pushes it to the device, what's the problem?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    01-31-14 12:21 PM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I am not answering any questions on his behalf, since I clearly have no idea if he had such a device, or not.
    Could it be that your reading comprehension needs some fine tuning once again?

    I am merely telling you that your posts are pretty sad in certain regards.
    For example: defaming somebody who clearly understands the current market paradigm way better than you.
    Or: Implying that Omnitech isn't qualified to make the statements he does because he may have not used an OS7 device.
    Who cares about it?
    OS6 was bad compared to the competition and the same goes for OS7.

    I would go as far as to say, that one mustn't have used any BBOS device, to come to the conclusion that the OS is obsolete.
    The sale numbers over 10+ years of commercial availability speak for themselves anyhow.

    Since I didn't reply for him, I will tell you that we are actually in agreement on this one point:
    Nobody asked me, which is one of two reasons why I didn't answer the question you posed Omnitech.

    Posted via CB10
    Thank you for your reply but I'm no longer interested in what you have yo say.

    Now if you can let Omnitech answer the question it would be much appreciated.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    01-31-14 12:26 PM
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Thank you for your reply but I'm no longer interested in what you have yo say.

    Now if you can let Omnitech answer the question it would be much appreciated.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I never denied him the option to reply, and I already said that.
    My choice of words should have been clear enough.
    Your wish of a reply from Omnitech still doesn't change the fact of your reasons for asking being ridiculous.

    And of course you are free of liking my posts, or ignoring them.
    But the verisimilitude of most of the things I say, won't go away nonetheless.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 01-31-14 at 01:18 PM.
    Omnitech likes this.
    01-31-14 12:52 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    The NOC does that and then pushes it to the device, what's the problem?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The original poster I was quoting said POP is just fine. My response is BB10 supports POP the way it was intended to work. Now if we say you have to have a massive data center sucking massive amounts of power, bandwidth, etc., constantly polling this POP account to make it appear to work like an instant email push protocol account, can we really say this is more efficient?

    Notice how BlackBerry service revenues are dropping? Do you think that the HVAC, power, real estate, Internet bandwidth, etc. that is required to run a data center, or in BlackBerry's case data centers because places like India and Middle East have to have them local so they can tap them, is cheap. All of this so you can make a 1990's mail protocol act like a push service.

    You guys ponder all that, really think about all that is involved to make that antiquated POP account do what you want it to do, and wonder why BlackBerry decided to move this processing off onto the phone.

    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech and johnnyuk like this.
    01-31-14 01:57 PM
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