[Omnitech]

I've had bb legacy devices for years. I never had the need to install a leaked OS or sideloading. My phone always ran smooth.

You must be the only person in the world that never had an issue with a BlackBerry, ever, then. Congratulations.

I never ran leaks on my legacy BBOS devices either, but I can't even begin to claim that they "always ran smooth". In fact, I had grown to despise their unreliability and lack of support for modern functionality after a while.

On my z10, I purchased the app hub ++. guess what? the app only works fine on the leaked OS.

Guess what: the feature that so many people here have been screaming and clamoring about and which Devcellent/Hub++ is one of the first to support - "headless operation" - ie running in the background - is not supported by BlackBerry on any currently officially released version of the OS. That is why the Hub++ version you got wanted the leaked OS version - in order to run headless. You can also download a version that does not run headless, and does not require a leaked OS for all features to work. Easy peasy.

I put my eyes on a smartwatch...[...]

I see a friend using an app on his iphone a cardreader app. [...]

...on the same token. I would not expect any of my friends to put up with the things I have.

If you want everything to be super simple and you want all the mainstream accessories and add-ons and want to do as little work as possible, then it will ALWAYS behoove you to just buy the most popular product in the marketplace and be done with it.

People buy BlackBerries today because they have particular reasons for that - they certainly don't buy them to be popular or to make it easier to find apps and accessories. Sounds like you've got the wrong product for your particular needs.

[Omnitech]

Aha, but how many people actually have active sync?

1. Every person who has an Outlook.com/Hotmail/Live.com email account (2nd most popular web email service in the world)
2. Any business that uses commercial Google mail services, which support ActiveSync if the customer so chooses
3. MOST large enterprise businesses today. (Only a tiny fraction run other groupware solutions such as IBM Notes/Domino or Novell Groupwise, but even those top 2 competitors now have ActiveSync connectors)
4. MOST medium-sized enterprises, who use hosted services if they do not run the mail infrastructure in-house
5. Any business or individual that has an Office 365 account (The "fastest growing product in the history of Microsoft", as officially stated this week)
6. MANY small businesses, who use hosted Exchange services from one of hundreds of independent providers, or Office 365 as stated above
7. Other organizations which run 3rd-party email systems which support ActiveSync, such as Zimbra.

[Omnitech]

Wrong, you'll find the majority don't have it, not everybody in the "business world" have it, maybe big corporations do, small/medium sized businesses don't. Why? Because it ain't cheap and it's not actually that essential to have.

Outlook.com accounts are free.

Office365 accounts start at $5.00/month USD per user, and include access to the full suite of Microsoft productivity apps too.

If that's your idea of expensive, I'd like to see what your idea of cheap is.

[MarsupilamiX]

Wrong, you'll find the majority don't have it, not everybody in the "business world" have it, maybe big corporations do, small/medium sized businesses don't. Why? Because it ain't cheap and it's not actually that essential to have.

Omnitech apparently put more effort into it (useless if you ask me, because you are completely unable to admit that you are so incredibly wrong).
Anyhow, I obviously agree with him, because I normaly don't try to dispute facts.
Since they are facts.

Btw, since you consider EAS as not being essential, why do you still whine that BB10 doesn't use BIS?
Especially since you use an iPhone now?

Not to forget, that the 5 Euro I paid per month for BIS, is pretty much the same amount I would pay for a hosted EAS email account?

1. Every person who has an Outlook.com/Hotmail/Live.com email account (2nd most popular web email service in the world)
2. Any business that uses commercial Google mail services, which support ActiveSync if the customer so chooses
3. MOST large enterprise businesses today. (Only a tiny fraction run other groupware solutions such as IBM Notes/Domino or Novell Groupwise, but even those top 2 competitors now have ActiveSync connectors)
4. MOST medium-sized enterprises, who use hosted services if they do not run the mail infrastructure in-house
5. Any business or individual that has an Office 365 account (The "fastest growing product in the history of Microsoft", as officially stated this week)
6. MANY small businesses, who use hosted Exchange services from one of hundreds of independent providers, or Office 365 as stated above
7. Other organizations which run 3rd-party email systems which support ActiveSync, such as Zimbra.

^
What he said.

Outlook.com accounts are free.

Office365 accounts start at $5.00/month USD per user, and include access to the full suite of Microsoft productivity apps too.

If that's your idea of expensive, I'd like to see what your idea of cheap is.

He didn't pay anything for BIS...
So I guess you already have your answer.
Cheap means, to get enterprise grade solutions for free.

I will refrain from judging that attitude, because it probably would get me banned if I stop to sugarcoat and use euphemisms.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

@JohnnyUK do you think that if BlackBerry made Balance fully commercial (not just a BES feature) that this would help bb10 sales? Or hurt BES sales

I say this because I presumed that I had blackberry balance and was sad when I found out it wasn't available for me, only through BES, I even looked for ways to get my phone BES enabled lol I really want that feature but i dont know if it would be plausible to give it to everyone

But BlackBerry's marketing really messed up by advertising Balance to consumers as if it was going to be something they could take advantage of just owning a BB10 phone. They should have made it clear that it would only be useful to them in a BYOD context with their employer, and even then it's a maybe.

I agree there was confusion about that during launch, but I think half the problem were clueless journalists who read a press release and didn't understand it, then turned around and wrote misleading articles, and then other journalists copied them.

The original material provided by BlackBerry referred to "Work/Personal" partitions on the device - the problem was they assumed that people understood "Work" to be "The I.T. staff at your employer has provisioned your device on their BES system, along with the Balance feature providing you a personal partition."

The problem is ignorant journalists saw that and just assumed it came with the phone natively, without thinking about what the "Work" side actually was.

However there may be some good news in this respect - see next post.

[Omnitech]

To decouple it from BES10 would make it become something else, call it Balance Lite or something. [...]

However, a Cloud service, BES10 Lite or whatever, supporting consumer mailboxes that can be connected to over IMAP, ActiveSync, POP3/SMTP and CalDav and CardDav could be ideal for providing Balance Lite to a BB10 phone. Think of it as BlackBerry Protect on steroids.

And this is apparently precisely what is in the plans now. Here is a post that someone did on this today:

To all: you might soon all be able to enjoy the beauty of BES ... for ~the price of BIS. Stay tuned

[Omnitech]

Can you all see the image in the last post?

When I edit the post, the image is embedded, when I post it, all I see is a link.

[belfastdispatcher]

Outlook.com accounts are free.

Office365 accounts start at $5.00/month USD per user, and include access to the full suite of Microsoft productivity apps too.

If that's your idea of expensive, I'd like to see what your idea of cheap is.

I host my business website and emails with 1and1.co.uk they want �9.99 per month per email address to have acyivesync. I have a few email addresses.

No thank you, I don't want to pay that just so I can have equivalent push email to BIS.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[belfastdispatcher]

Omnitech apparently put more effort into it (useless if you ask me, because you are completely unable to admit that you are so incredibly wrong).
Anyhow, I obviously agree with him, because I normaly don't try to dispute facts.
Since they are facts.

Btw, since you consider EAS as not being essential, why do you still whine that BB10 doesn't use BIS?
Especially since you use an iPhone now?

Not to forget, that the 5 Euro I paid per month for BIS, is pretty much the same amount I would pay for a hosted EAS email account?



^
What he said.



He didn't pay anything for BIS...
So I guess you already have your answer.
Cheap means, to get enterprise grade solutions for free.

I will refrain from judging that attitude, because it probably would get me banned if I stop to sugarcoat and use euphemisms.

Posted via CB10

If you really love to know I'm using my iphone as a main phone only temporarily, I will be moving back to a legacy device now that I managed to get my carrier to adds BiS to my data plan. Hope this satisfies your curiosity.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[belfastdispatcher]

1. Every person who has an Outlook.com/Hotmail/Live.com email account (2nd most popular web email service in the world)
2. Any business that uses commercial Google mail services, which support ActiveSync if the customer so chooses
3. MOST large enterprise businesses today. (Only a tiny fraction run other groupware solutions such as IBM Notes/Domino or Novell Groupwise, but even those top 2 competitors now have ActiveSync connectors)
4. MOST medium-sized enterprises, who use hosted services if they do not run the mail infrastructure in-house
5. Any business or individual that has an Office 365 account (The "fastest growing product in the history of Microsoft", as officially stated this week)
6. MANY small businesses, who use hosted Exchange services from one of hundreds of independent providers, or Office 365 as stated above
7. Other organizations which run 3rd-party email systems which support ActiveSync, such as Zimbra.

Now put the same effort into listing who doesn't use EAS and see what list is bigger.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[Omnitech]

I host my business website and emails with 1and1.co.uk they want �9.99 per month per email address to have acyivesync.

No, they want �9.99 a month for Microsoft Exchange groupware hosting, per user.

Which seems a bit overpriced to me. Here is what Microsoft themselves charges:

Office 365 - Microsoft Business UK

• �2.60 per user/month for just Exchange groupware/email hosting. (Not a service available in the USA, and quite cheap, really.)
• �3.90 per user/month for full Office 365.

Office 365 Microsoft's fastest growing business, ever - Microsoft (The Register)


Or just go the ultra-cheapo route and get free Outlook.com accounts.

[Omnitech]

Now put the same effort into listing who doesn't use EAS and see what list is bigger.

Given that you seem to be just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, I will do no such thing.

[Omnitech]

Looks like Microsoft's cloud offerings in Ireland may be slightly different, here's the webpage I found on that:

Online Software Hosted in the Cloud - Office 365 - Microsoft

[MarsupilamiX]

Looks like Microsoft's cloud offerings in Ireland may be slightly different, here's the webpage I found on that:

Online Software Hosted in the Cloud - Office 365 - Microsoft

Just a theoretical question...
Since it's all in the cloud anyhow, what would stop me from getting the service from MS in the US?

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

No, they want �9.99 a month for Microsoft Exchange groupware hosting, per user.

Which seems a bit overpriced to me. Here is what Microsoft themselves charges:

Office 365 - Microsoft Business UK

• �2.60 per user/month for just Exchange groupware/email hosting. (Not a service available in the USA, and quite cheap, really.)
• �3.90 per user/month for full Office 365.

Office 365 Microsoft's fastest growing business, ever - Microsoft (The Register)


Or just go the ultra-cheapo route and get free Outlook.com accounts.

All I want is fast push email for my hosted email accounts, they have been instant from 2008-2013. All of a sudden now it's a problem, I have to look for third party solutions, pay extra etc.

Can you at least understand the frustration?


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[MarsupilamiX]

All I want is fast push email for my hosted email accounts, they have been instant from 2008-2013. All of a sudden now it's a problem, I have to look for third party solutions, pay extra etc.

Can you at least understand the frustration?


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

No?
I paid for my BIS.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

Just a theoretical question...
Since it's all in the cloud anyhow, what would stop me from getting the service from MS in the US?

You would have to ask Microsoft that, I guess.

There may be international trade treaties or contracts that restrict purchase to local customers, and there are ways to tell where you are by IP address.

Besides, using a cloud host 6,000 miles away is not really very ideal in general unless performance is not a concern.

[Omnitech]

All I want is fast push email for my hosted email accounts, they have been instant from 2008-2013. All of a sudden now it's a problem, I have to look for third party solutions, pay extra etc.

Can you at least understand the frustration?

I can understand the frustration.

What I cannot understand is the endless circular argumentation and refusal to consider perfectly good alternatives (seemingly) just because they are different than what you are familiar with.

[belfastdispatcher]

No?
I paid for my BIS.

Posted via CB10

Yeah, everybody pus for their BIS one way or another. What's your point?


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[belfastdispatcher]

I can understand the frustration.

What I cannot understand is the endless circular argumentation and refusal to consider perfectly good alternatives (seemingly) just because they are different than what you are familiar with.

What can I say, I'm set in my ways. And I'm a firm believer in if it's not broken, don't try to fix it.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[Omnitech]

What can I say, I'm set in my ways. And I'm a firm believer in if it's not broken, don't try to fix it.

Unfortunately in the world of technology and especially consumer electronic products, that philosophy doesn't pan out very well over extended periods of time.

Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for not so good reasons. I certainly wouldn't want to have to go back to Windows 95 on a general-purpose PC, for example.

If that PC were operating a particular software package that did a certain task and worked efficiently, and I had no need for any other desktop computer functions, then one could view it as an "appliance" like a toaster and use it until it breaks.

But here's where that doesn't work in the real world:

• If the device is connected to the internet, dialup or accepts media from external sources, it becomes a magnet for malware since its remaining security bugs will never be patched.
• If the hardware fails, there is a very high likelihood that you cannot simply buy a new PC and migrate the installation, because the old OS does not understand much of the new hardware and will not run on it.
• If a component or accessory breaks, there is a very good chance you will not be able to find a compatible replacement.
• If something stops working correctly with the software, there is no support from the vendor nor can they be expected to expend man-hours for highly-paid technical experts when they haven't received a dime of revenue from that product for nearly 20 years. In fact, a large number of the original SW and HW vendors have probably gone out of business since then.
• As time goes on, the hardware and software will become increasingly incompatible with modern SW/HW, meaning if you have to backup the system, copy to/from the system, or do any other sort of maintenance, it will slowly but surely become impossible.

These same concepts apply to smartphones, but far more extremely. Care to wager what the likelihood of getting a 5-year-old smartphone repaired or replaced would be? By continuing to use that old technology, you increasingly put yourself at risk of data-loss and massive downtime due to the complexity or even impossibility of fixing problems years down the road, or just retrieving/migrating your data.

In a nutshell, to some degree, you are forced to upgrade technology products in order to protect yourself from obsolescence and incompatibility.

That's not a problem with a hammer or a saw, because hammers and saws and toasters do not rely on a massive technological ecosystem in order to perform their tasks.

You do need bread for the toaster, though.

[belfastdispatcher]

Unfortunately in the world of technology and especially consumer electronic products, that philosophy doesn't pan out very well over extended periods of time.

Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for not so good reasons. I certainly wouldn't want to have to go back to Windows 95 on a general-purpose PC, for example.

If that PC were operating a particular software package that did a certain task and worked efficiently, and I had no need for any other desktop computer functions, then one could view it as an "appliance" like a toaster and use it until it breaks.

But here's where that doesn't work in the real world:

• If the device is connected to the internet, dialup or accepts media from external sources, it becomes a magnet for malware since its remaining security bugs will never be patched.
• If the hardware fails, there is a very high likelihood that you cannot simply buy a new PC and migrate the installation, because the old OS does not understand much of the new hardware and will not run on it.
• If a component or accessory breaks, there is a very good chance you will not be able to find a compatible replacement.
• If something stops working correctly with the software, there is no support from the vendor nor can they be expected to expend man-hours for highly-paid technical experts when they haven't received a dime of revenue from that product for nearly 20 years. In fact, a large number of the original SW and HW vendors have probably gone out of business since then.
• As time goes on, the hardware and software will become increasingly incompatible with modern SW/HW, meaning if you have to backup the system, copy to/from the system, or do any other sort of maintenance, it will slowly but surely become impossible.

These same concepts apply to smartphones, but far more extremely. Care to wager what the likelihood of getting a 5-year-old smartphone repaired or replaced would be? By continuing to use that old technology, you increasingly put yourself at risk of data-loss and massive downtime due to the complexity or even impossibility of fixing problems years down the road, or just retrieving/migrating your data.

In a nutshell, to some degree, you are forced to upgrade technology products in order to protect yourself from obsolescence and incompatibility.

That's not a problem with a hammer or a saw, because hammers and saws and toasters do not rely on a massive technological ecosystem in order to perform their tasks.

You do need bread for the toaster, though.

Well I wasn't really talking about hardware but funny enough, by moving to the new technology I ended up loosing a massive data chunk.

Nobody can say I haven't given BB10 a fair tray, but I keep navigating back to BBOS.

For the record the iphone is no better then BB10 regarding my emails, in fact bits worse as it doesn't even have imap idle push.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[Omnitech]

Well I wasn't really talking about hardware but funny enough, by moving to the new technology I ended up loosing a massive data chunk.

I don't know why that would be necessary if done properly. When I bought my Z10 the day it was released here, I had migrated my data from my 9650 that evening without any significant loss at all. Even using the early version of Link that had all sorts of bugs.

Nobody can say I haven't given BB10 a fair tray...

You think?

For the record the iphone is no better then BB10 regarding my emails, in fact bits worse as it doesn't even have imap idle push.

That's correct, though it does support Yahoo's proprietary email push mechanism, which most other smartphone platforms do not in their native email client. (including BB10)

Actually you should be happy these days because BlackBerry under Chen has been making all sorts of concessions to legacy OS users. Clewley was even touting the "floating action bar" in 10.2.1 on 1/17, including a ----- get ready ------ "back button".

Stick around man, at this rate pretty soon they'll be bringing back the 7200 series.

[johnnyuk]

New Year, New Problems; heard from my local EE store that 3 have rejected the Z30 this is all UK by the way, also EE are carrying out vigorous tests based on past performance of Blackberry's so availability from them is further delayed..

Only good news is hopefully they might use the tests to market the Z30 as I'm sure it will pass with flying colours..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

If that's true at least that means it is coming to EE eventually. The testing delays might explain why the Z10 on business contracts went from EOL in January to EOL in February, so they would still have a full touch BB10 phone to sell until the Z30 is approved.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[johnnyuk]

And this is apparently precisely what is in the plans now. Here is a post that someone did on this today:

Yeh I know about BES10 Cloud but I'm not sure it will let you connect users to any ActiveSync mailbox hosted anywhere you want, unless you have heard otherwise? I'm not in the beta but I can sign up to a free trial at work but I just haven't had the time lately.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2