02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. tinochiko's Avatar
    Wow, my first one
    Why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10?-img_20140106_213447.png

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    01-06-14 03:35 PM
  2. Omnitech's Avatar
    Wow, my first one

    First what?
    01-06-14 09:41 PM
  3. tinochiko's Avatar
    First what?
    Promotional email from blackberry

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    01-06-14 11:03 PM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    Promotional email from blackberry

    Hmm, I've seen a number of them.

    However it is promising that they are doing this now, they got lost for a while during the corporate upheaval of the past few months.
    01-06-14 11:15 PM
  5. Omnitech's Avatar
    So I looked up some things just now to answer some questions for Blackberry users in certain countries.

    In the process, looked up some of BlackBerry's dedicated webpages for some of these developing markets.

    Take a look at the BlackBerry site for Lebanon below - like taking a trip back in time with Dr. Who. You wants legacy OS?? WE GOTZ LEGACY OS!!


    BlackBerry - Homepage - Lebanon
    01-07-14 12:45 AM
  6. WES51's Avatar
    Am I really looking to get a new phone every two years, having to migrate all my apps, settings etc. (more or less a half a day job)? For what? Where and when am I going to get all the time spent back?

    9900 works for me alright. So why change?
    Davidro1 likes this.
    01-07-14 11:05 AM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Am I really looking to get a new phone every two years, having to migrate all my apps, settings etc. (more or less a half a day job)? For what? Where and when am I going to get all the time spent back?

    9900 works for me alright. So why change?
    Good news, you will not have to transfer your BBOS apps. I have heard that some stores will help you move your contacts and set up the device for you . I would shop around for a store that will do that for you.
    01-07-14 11:13 AM
  8. Davidro1's Avatar
    I kept the same 2008 phone until 2013. A long time. It was a bad phone. I endured the situation. It was a RAZR, not a BlackBerry.

    After I got the BlackBerry z10 in early February 2013, I was in an unexpected situation : learning learning and learning TONS of information that would soon become useless. E.g. This bug that big and then the next bug, all destined for oblivion when the next OS update was to come out. Argh.

    If you are a CB forum old-timer you shall have noticed no doubt that I have learned a lot since February and it came at the expense of many hours of work !!!

    Posted via CB10
    01-07-14 11:22 AM
  9. WES51's Avatar
    in that case I'm glad I was wrong about that. Thanks much for your efforts as well, but please don't spend time on this for me as I won't plan change to change soon for a few other reasons as well. Thanks again for your offer and for setting things straight.
    01-07-14 11:29 AM
  10. tinochiko's Avatar
    in that case I'm glad I was wrong about that. Thanks much for your efforts as well, but please don't spend time on this for me as I won't plan change to change soon for a few other reasons as well. Thanks again for your offer and for setting things straight.
    Other reasons such as?

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    01-07-14 11:41 AM
  11. johnnyuk's Avatar
    50 BlackBerrys? How is that in any way relevant to big enterprises needs that roll out thousands of devices while absolutely don't care in any way of what employees might want in a phone

    When you have to look after thousands of devices my guess is even the most hardcore IT professionals would want to limit the employees to the strictly basic needed functions.
    Had a busy week since New Years but now I'm back with a capital BACK.

    I'll tell you how my small estate of 52 BlackBerry 10 devices (it's gone up a few just recently) is relevant to both the fact that almost nobody in Enterprise still wants physical Qwerty and also the needs of big enterprises with thousands of devices and no interest in "user preference". Not that we were talking about the latter at the time but you do so love to "amend" the subject when the going gets tough...

    It's relevant because it is real world data from the real world of work. What real world data of a magnitude greater than 1 user (you) can you provide from your own personal experience? It shows that when presented with a choice of physical Qwerty BB10 with a small square screen and a full touch wide screen BB10 phone out of 52 people only 2 real people in the real world, 2 dinosaurs struggling on after the meteorite hit the Earth, chose physical Qwerty. The percentage who have chosen full touch is now up to 98.96% with a few recent additions.

    How's that relevant to thousands of force-issued phones? If those users were given a choice I would bet my job that the percentage would remain above 90% in favour of full touch, and I would put a side bet on it remaining above 95%. People have moved on from physical Qwerty in their personal lives years ago, or never used one in the first place (since the iPhone has been around a long time now) and so they expect the same technology in their work lives. The only people who still think that Enterprise still must equal psychical Qwerty are people who are stuck in the past and regularly meet up with Mike Lazaridis for a pint and a chat about old times.

    Now here's why even after the full touch smartphone revolution of the late 2000's large Enterprises have historically still force-rolled out physical Qwerty BlackBerry phones, with an emphasis on the historically!

    When Enterprise has to roll out thousands of smartphones, unless they are cash mega rich and not trying to maximise profits in all areas, they are looking for two main qualities; cheap and secure.

    Historically, between say 2008 and today,
    the requirement for security ruled out Android.
    The requirement for a low cost ruled out iPhone for obvious reasons and also Windows Phone (and it's predecessors) because the back end required to secure them properly (MS SCCM) is very expensive compared to typical MDM solutions.

    What that used to leave was cheap as chips crappy but 'secure' old BBOS phone with physical Qwerty keyboards. Dear Carrier, Please find an order attached for 6,000 BlackBerry Curve xxxx's.

    The fact that the phones their two main requirements would lead them to purchase had physical Qwerty keyboards had nothing to do with their selection, physical keyboards are just what they happened to have.

    Part of that problem within BlackBerry's own range of BBOS phones was that they never actually produced a full touch BBOS that wasn't horrifically flawed in some way. I've used 2 of the most recent as my daily driver in the last 2 years; the Curve 9380 and the Torch 9860. Both are phones with so much potential and yet they somehow managed to over promise and under deliver whenever they can usually with a few minutes of "spinning clock of yawn" right when you need to do something. And both of those were far superior to either of the Storms, as I frequently say to my Apple fan boy colleague "We do not speak of BlackBerry Storm."

    But anyway, I say 'historically' because oh boy the times they are a changing. Every enterprise tech blog in the world has in the last 6 months has posted an article or 'white paper' on why your enterprise must devise a plan to migrate away from BlackBerry. The company has been in a death spiral for too long, as a customer you have to have an exit strategy because in the next 12 months you might need it. And enterprises all over the world are deciding that their best exit strategy is to get out now!

    What Enterprises expect of a smartphone, even a low end smartphone, is changing too. It's no longer just messaging, hasn't been for a couple of years. Almost anything can do messaging now, it's old news, stale beer. They expect apps; specifically Corporately developed/purchased and deployed apps that are controlled by IT. They expect that the phone will be able to connect to their company database systems so the user can have no excuse not to have done their electronic paper work on the move. When they turn to a developer for a bespoke mobile app or even to their database vendor for an off the shelf one they find that next to nobody is developing for BlackBerry any more whether that's BBOS or BlackBerry 10. What they are developing for is Android and iOS and the burgeoning Windows Phone, that's where the momentum is now.

    Many who aren't 'Regulated' and so aren't forced by their Industry/Government to meet very high and specific security requirements for mobile devices have replaced BES with A.N.Other MDM solution and replaced aging BBOS phones with cheap Android full touch. Or if they already have the expensive (tens of thousands of pounds) back end infrastructure in place, Windows Phone full touch. Or they've implemented BYOD in an attempt to bring down costs so iPhone is brought in to the mix too. They may be leaking corporate data like a sieve trying to hold a pint of water, that's a big risk they have taken as the world moves on, but with the 'ditch us now' image that BlackBerry is leaving in the minds of the enterprise tech world coupled with poor awareness of BB10, ridiculous pricing in many countries and still no true low end BB10 phone, BlackBerry is left out of this new picture.

    BlackBerry's last refuge is 'Regulated' Enterprise, Governments, Public Sector organisations and financial intuitions where they do have to comply with strict security policies for mobile devices. Even here the times they are a changing as Samsung is aggressively chasing wounded BlackBerry with Samsung KNOX, it's not fit for purpose yet but it's just a matter of time. 2014 will see Microsoft launch "Enterprise features" for Windows Phone 8.1, nobody knows what the hell they are yet but Microsoft stand to become 'trusted' in regulated Enterprise more easily than most Android pushers.

    Just about often enough for BlackBerry to still be able to carve out some kind of niche business and market share in 'Regulated' Enterprise all this still leads to a BlackBerry roll out. But the age old rule of 'cheap and secure' gets applied.

    Dear Carrier, Please find an order attached for 6,000 BlackBerry 9720's or worse 9320's.

    As a sweetener when you've always used BBOS historically the bespoke apps you had written years ago to connect to your databases will still run. Your perpetual device CALs you've had for years will work with new 'old' BBOS phones on the BES you already have so you don't have further expense there.

    It's a no brainer to go BBOS if you are a 'Regulated' Enterprise that needd to roll out thousands of BlackBerrys and you aren't ready to go BES10 and cash rich enough to buy BB10 phones. But the all too obvious point of the longest post I think I've ever done here is that the fact that the BBOS phones they end up with happen to be physical Qwerty has absolutely... nothing... to do with... the selection process.

    Thank you and good night!

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    tinochiko, Omnitech and Davidro1 like this.
    01-07-14 06:45 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Sorry, you need to learn to compress your thoughts in fewer words. Somebody famous once said - ain't nobody got time for that!
    01-07-14 07:04 PM
  13. johnnyuk's Avatar
    The only point I was making there pertains to peoples alleged "overwhelming preference for a hardware keyboard" that so many of the BBOS partisans keep claiming.

    He told staff members they could have either a full touch model or one with a HW keyboard, and they all picked the full touch models.

    Johnny please feel free to correct me if I am wrong or clarify.
    It was 96% who chose full touch at the time. That's since gone up to 98.96% with the roll out of a few more Z10s.

    I had a satisfying time issuing my most recent Z10 to a new starter last week; a middle manager. He walks in the office and immediately announces that he doesn't want a BlackBerry. He had one in his previous job and hates the (physical) keyboard. He much prefers his iPhone, can't he just have an iPhone? This is before we've even sat down and opened the box.

    "I think you'll change your mind when you I show you this BlackBerry.", I tell him.

    "No. I can't use the stupid keyboard. iPhones are so much better.", he retorts.

    I open the box.

    "Oh..... it's like an iPhone.", he says, surprised and disappointed at the same time as his pre-programmed iBrain reboots with shock.

    I show him the gestures, Active Frames, the Hub, peek and flow.

    "Oh.... it's just as good as an iPhone.", he recalculates.

    I show him the virtual keyboard and flicking predicted works on to the screen.

    "Oh.... this phone might end up being better than an iPhone.", he ups the ante with.

    I show him the Work space with access to the Intranet, Sharepoint and his mapped network drives for personal and shared documents that he can read and edit on the move anywhere.

    "Oh.... it's better than an iPhone.", he concludes.

    I rest my case. All it takes to convert an iSheep, a Droidfan or a Windozer in the work place is to show them the Work space then it sinks in. BB10 is THE smartphone for Enterprise, specifically the full touch Z10 and Z30.


    In other news still just 2 people in my workplace have chosen the Q10s so far. Thorsten's prediction that the Q10 would sell tens of millions was so far from reality that it make and wonder if his old pal Mike Lazaridis was his script writer for key notes.

    I wonder just how much of that $4.4 billion loss in Q3 just reported in December was the write down or even write off of the Q10 and Q5. Q5 prices have just started to come down somewhere, India I think it was, I wonder where's next and how far the fire sale will go.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 01-08-14 at 10:58 PM.
    Omnitech and Davidro1 like this.
    01-07-14 07:30 PM
  14. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Sorry, you need to learn to compress your thoughts in fewer words. Somebody famous once said - ain't nobody got time for that!
    That someone is also of the nationality that is infamous for having the attention span of a goldfish.

    If you're not prepared to read in depth on complicated subject matters then you're in no position to be debating them so vociferously.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    01-07-14 07:37 PM
  15. johnnyuk's Avatar
    So did I, twice, first the Storm2 then the Z10, both times I regretted it. It's in no way relevant.
    How is you regretting buying the Storm for whatever reason (there were plenty to choose from) and the Z10 (the SMTP bug?) in any way relevant to the provable fact that in the Enterprise workplace when given a choice of physical Qwerty or full touch, after trying both, the vast majority choose full touch?

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    01-07-14 07:58 PM
  16. johnnyuk's Avatar
    But you're only picking johnnyuk because he agrees with your points.
    And the small but by no mens insignificant fact that I have hard cold 'opinion' crushing data to prove what I say. Oh and screen shots, just ask if you want more BES10 screen shots.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    01-07-14 08:19 PM
  17. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I was on a committee looking into further BlackBerry deployment including PlayBook deployment in a biggish NHS Trust.
    Jeepers that must have been years ago! The mobile device world moves on at an astonishing pace and has very different demographics today even compared to a couple of years ago. For example iPads are now in the minority as a tablet platform both in UK and globally compared to Android tablets, that wasn't the case when you would have been looking at deploying PlayBooks.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    01-07-14 08:20 PM
  18. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I work with people issued with BlackBerry devices. I guarantee you the people who are issued with a BlackBerry would never give up a physical keyboard for a touch device, guaranteed, if they were offered a choice.
    My die hard Bold keyboard addicts at work told me that too. They'd seen horrible Android virtual keyboards and narrow iPhone keyboards and thought that's what the BB10 virtual keyboard was going to be like.

    I got them to try the virtual keyboard on a Z10 for a day and a physical Q10 the day after.

    1.04% of my users then opted for a Q10. 'Nuff said.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Davidro1 and Omnitech like this.
    01-07-14 08:21 PM
  19. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I just had a look at my carrier's website and they no longer sell new Z10s, only returned models. Strange one.

    They list them as "nearly new" and the definition for that is phones that have been bought and returned within 7 days.

    I wonder is that the Legacy users giving it a try and returning it?
    Plenty of other big name phones on that list too (see pic).

    For the Z10 it just means they've sold their stock and aren't buying more from BlackBerry.


    Why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10?-img_00000003.png

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    01-07-14 08:31 PM
  20. johnnyuk's Avatar
    At the same time they still sell the Curve 9320 on OS6 brand new and in black and white too.
    As Len Goodman says... OS "sevERN!"

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 01-08-14 at 11:02 PM.
    01-07-14 08:34 PM
  21. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Well to be fair it looks like Vodafone UK thinks so and they seem to be having a large pool of returned Z10s
    A large pool of unwanted Z10's from the last 7 days as of 3rd of Jan?

    Santa will be saying "Sod you then!" to a lot of people! Lol

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    01-07-14 08:38 PM
  22. indeau's Avatar
    I think BBOS7 boots up much faster, almost like instantly.
    That to a business traveler is very useful. Imagine you are on a plane, wanting to send a quick note after you switched off the device. Every second feels like hour.
    My Q10 takes a long while to start, it is actually a minus to the whole BB10 experience.
    Like it or not, most business people I know still use BlackBerry, and every little detail make them like or dislike the platform.

    Posted via CB10
    01-07-14 08:52 PM
  23. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Very true but BBOS users have been resisting change for a long time, ever since the first iphone was released, so what made Bb think that if they slap the BlackBerry logo on one big change BBOS users would jump at it?
    They clearly sided too heavily on pandering to potential iPhone and Android buyers with attempts at "consumer" eye catching gimmicks such as the Time shift camera and fancy modern things like touch gesture for the hardcore of dinosaur BBOS users.

    But they were caught between a rock and a hard place with who to design BB10 for. Design it only for existing BBOS users and be accused of being inward and backward looking by the media and only ever be able to sell to an ever decreasing user base. Or design it to try to tempt their competitor's customers away with something new and different, running the risk of it being an admirable (the media did praise BB10 for how genuinely new and different it was at launch compared to its competitors) but ultimately fruitless endeavour that doesn't attract enough new customers and alienates your old customers.

    I'm sure they attempted to be all things to all people but BB10 was always going to come down more heavily on one side of the fence than the other.

    Personally I'm glad BlackBerry at least tried to make something new and radically different. I'm a fan of the saying "It's better to burn out than to fade away!". And for me BB10 has been, is and will hopefully continue to be, fantastic.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    01-07-14 08:53 PM
  24. johnnyuk's Avatar
    One thing to be worried about, if Vodafone UK no longer sell new Z10s will they still release OS updates for it? Maybe one more but after that?
    They will for the next couple of years at least. They'll have shipped a load to business customers too that they have to continue to support. And they will actually have a lot of Z10s still in stock somewhere for insurance replacements for business customers. Also UK carrier tests for new phone OS releases aren't as onerous and long winded as in the US so it's not such a burden on them.

    The more worrying things for BB10 going in to 2014 are the dwindling availability of the Z10 on the high street, given that it's now heavily discounted and theoretically a more sellable proposition, combined with Vodafone being the only carrier of the Z30...but for how long until they drop it?

    The Jakarta phone isn't going to come soon enough to fill the low end BB10 all touch gap I fear. It certainly flippin' well should be coming to the UK anyway if BlackBerry are at all serious about increasing the BB10 user base, consumer or enterprise.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    01-07-14 09:07 PM
  25. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I think BBOS7 boots up much faster, almost like instantly.
    That to a business traveler is very useful. Imagine you are on a plane, wanting to send a quick note after you switched off the device. Every second feels like hour.
    My Q10 takes a long while to start, it is actually a minus to the whole BB10 experience.
    Like it or not, most business people I know still use BlackBerry, and every little detail make them like or dislike the platform.

    Posted via CB10
    I think you're mixing up BBOS7 'booting up' with coming out of standby.

    BBOS phones are only ever truly powered off when the battery is removed. When you press and hold the power button, while it turns off a lot of things, you are actually just putting the OS in to standby. It doesn't need to boot up at all the next time you press the power button, that's why it's so quick.

    What you have to do for a real boot speed comparison between BBOS and BB10 is take the battery out of the BBOS phone and then put it back in. You will find that the BBOS phone is far far slower at booting up for real than any BB10 phone.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2
    southlander likes this.
    01-07-14 09:14 PM
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