[belfastdispatcher]

Unless someone can correct me, os updates have nothing to do with number of resales or sales for that matter, I don't see how updates would be affected? They are still selling the phone..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

A new OS has to be tested before it's approved by the carrier, why would they allocate the resources to a phone they no longer sell?

[Bishkin]

It was you that first mentioned or rather assumed BlackBerry's point of view "unless BB don't know how to compete" so thanks for that. Just because you didn't buy the Z10 at launch price doesn't mean it was an entry level device? If it sold well and the price decrease was therefore much more gradual, you might still not have it, so you're just a certain kind of consumer...

'reasonable price' is heavily subjective

TechCraze C0008DDD1

BB don't know how to compete because they lacked customers' perspectives. I am sorry I wasted your time on this, so I am going to stop here ....

[tinochiko]

A new OS has to be tested before it's approved by the carrier, why would they allocate the resources to a phone they no longer sell?

But they do still sell it?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[belfastdispatcher]

But they do still sell it?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Not new devices, they only sell returned Z10s.

[tinochiko]

Not new devices, they only sell returned Z10s.

I didn't say they sold new devices, they still sell the Z10, new or not, so they kinda have an obligation to continue pushing through updates until they stop selling it completely, and even if they do if they are still supporting The Q's and the Z30, then they will continue to push the updates I assume it would be more effort to stop pushing it just for one of the devices than continue to roll it out across the board..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[Omnitech]

Given that Vodafone is currently selling a bunch of other BB10 devices, brand-new, kinda looks like you just cherry-picked something to make things look worse than they really are, to me.

I think it's a well-known fact that Blackberry is going to start the process of phasing out the Z10 pretty soon.

Note in the image below that all the Q5, Q10 and Z30 models are still being sold new.

The Z30 is basically the replacement for the Z10. It sells here for the same price the Z10 did when it came out.

[Omnitech]

Kind of hilarious how virtually every device in that ad has a "5 star rating".

Does anyone believe such "ratings" any more?

[belfastdispatcher]

Given that Vodafone is currently selling a bunch of other BB10 devices, brand-new, kinda looks like you just cherry-picked something to make things look worse than they really are, to me.

I think it's a well-known fact that Blackberry is going to start the process of phasing out the Z10 pretty soon.

Note in the image below that both the Q5, Q10 and Z30 are still being sold new.

The Z30 is basically the replacement for the Z10. It sells here for the same price the Z10 did when it came out.

Funny, they're selling the Q5 at the same price as the Q10, I struggle to find the logic in that.

[tinochiko]

Funny, they're selling the Q5 at the same price as the Q10, I struggle to find the logic in that.

Have you checked if the texts minutes and data are also corresponding? It is doubted that they are..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[belfastdispatcher]

Have you checked if the texts minutes and data are also corresponding? It is doubted that they are..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

I just checked and you actually get more with the Q10, go figure.

[tinochiko]

I just checked and you actually get more with the Q10, go figure.

But you do pay more for the handset , still kinda crazy though

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[belfastdispatcher]

But you do pay more for the handset , still kinda crazy though

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Not at the £29.99 plan.

[tinochiko]

Not at the £29.99 plan.

Yes but on that one you get more on the Q10 than the Q5

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[Bbnivende]

Wow, what store was that?

Haven't heard a story like that in quite a long while here.

I assume they noticed you had a BlackBerry visible when you walked-in?

Costco .. No I had my BB in my pocket. The guy seemed genuine. I should also say that there was no mention of BB10 as a OS. Probably better not to mention the OS because average Joe expects the OS to be icon based and support all the apps in a store.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[Davidro1]

The first 100 days of z10 were horrible. I bought it and returned it.

Repeat. I bought it and returned it. I kept learning more all the time.

I began to understand which aspects were going to be fixed in the first OS update. I began to understand which aspects were in fact "features" to be managed and not faults.


By returning the z10 I put pressure on all parties to get their act together.

Even the CB forum people all wrote to return the device and cancel the contract, in order to start again another day when more ready.

It seems BlackBerry didn't user test the bb10 and the z10 sufficiently, and suffered normal consequences.


--

I got into BlackBerry for the reasons described below. I have Apple for non phone purposes.

.... Comparing with android/iphone imo it's all marketing .... Apple lock you in a jail and call it heaven, android opens all the jail cells ... TechCraze C0008DDD1

Posted via CB10

[d0n4lduck]

Sorry to jump in here but if a blackberry keyboard wasn't of such importance why would someone invest time and money in trying to bring that xp to an iPhone?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

I share the same view on this one. Btw, Blackberry just sued the guys making it:

BlackBerry sues Typo over its familiar-looking iPhone keyboard

As a comparison, I try really hard to find substitutes to the physical keyboard phone in android OS and can only find a very small number of the latest Android phones with a physical keyboard, among others: the low end Samsung Galaxy Chat. I could not find any high end smartphone with physical keyboard in other platform.

I am sure that the physical keyboard smartphone market is still there. Blackberry just needs to do some research to find out how significant the number is and the location of such market. The fact that most of the current smartphone users in the world use touch-screen only smartphone cannot be used as the only benchmark to determine that the physical keyboard smartphone market no longer exist.

[tinochiko]

I share the same view on this one. Btw, Blackberry just sued the guys making it:

BlackBerry sues Typo over its familiar-looking iPhone keyboard

As a comparison, I try really hard to find substitutes to the physical keyboard phone in android OS and can only find a very small number of the latest Android phones with a physical keyboard, among others: the low end Samsung Galaxy Chat. I could not find any high end smartphone with physical keyboard in other platform.

I am sure that the physical keyboard smartphone market is still there. Blackberry just needs to do some research to find out how significant the number is and the location of such market. The fact that most of the current smartphone users in the world use touch-screen only smartphone cannot be used as the only benchmark to determine that the physical keyboard smartphone market no longer exist.

Lol it was only a matter of time and that's so true, I think it's a matter of everyone going after touch screen because of the way apple did it, when for some it's not what they really want. I can't remember which one but there was a really good blackberry10 concept that looked high end I think it was the slider and it looked so good, but with the slider I think they need to innovate something new to it e.g. it can also be a stand for the screen part of the phone or something..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[BennyX]

You may want to learn something about the definition of a developing country/economy then.
For example, here:
Developing country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll give you Hong Kong and Singapur though, these are correct, but in terms of overall market size rather negligible.

Posted via CB10

Reading comprehension, good sir.. it works wonders.

I was talking about *developed* countries, not *developing* (and Hong Kong and Singapore are *developed* countries).

[Omnitech]

By returning the z10 I put pressure on all parties to get their act together.

You sure showed them, with that one device return of yours. I'll bet Thorsten Heins lost sleep for a week over that return of yours.

I bought my first Z10 the first day it went on sale here, and later bought a second one.

Perspectives vary.

[Davidro1]

You sure showed them, with that one device return of yours. I'll bet Thorsten Heins lost sleep for a week over that return of yours.

I bought my first Z10 the first day it went on sale here, and later bought a second one.

Perspectives vary.

I'll make this clearer. :-)

I bought 1, (my 1st z10), returned it 14 days later.

Complained here and there.

After a delay, I bought a 2nd one. Returned it too.
Returned it after 14 days of harassing the Carrier.
Began emailing people inside BlackBerry and inside Team BlackBerry.
Began posting on forums.

After another delay, i bought a 3rd one
... and I kept it.

Complained, whined, asked, requested, blasted etc.

Everything I asked for was included in the first OS update. Everything that I said was critical and urgent.

The 10.2.0 os update really improved things.




Thanks for reading my posts and thanks for giving me an opportunity to post again.

[Omnitech]

Everything I asked for was included in the first OS update. Everything that I said was critical and urgent.

Impressive. You must have single-handedly saved the company from itself.

Couldn't have been because other users and their own staff already knew those things had to be fixed.

You should see my personal list of things that have been wrong with the device/OS from the beginning, which have never been fixed.

[Davidro1]

Zooming out, to a bigger picture: the typical new phone buyer (a) was turned off in February and in March, after the January hype that described the BlackBerry 10 that was about to come to the market.

Looking at the horrible experience that was the first version of bb10, it was clear (to me) that the positive trend got broken, the regrowth stalled, and the (few) buyers would probably go with an old style phone (bbos) or go to the competition. This can explain why bbos outsold the new OS.

Note (a): typical buyer = someone not likely to return twice and buy a third one.

[Omnitech]

Zooming out, to a bigger picture: the typical new phone buyer (a) was turned off in February and in March, after the January hype that described the BlackBerry 10 that was about to come to the market.

Looking at the horrible experience that was the first version of bb10, it was clear (to me) that the positive trend got broken, the regrowth stalled, and the (few) buyers would probably go with an old style phone (bbos) or go to the competition. This can explain why bbos outsold the new OS.

I think that was a factor, but not THE factor.

I have already made lists here about what I consider to be the main factors.

[indeau]

I think the main reason is the carriers have no incentive to promote BB10 devices given it can run on cheap generic data plan. Before this, we used to pay much more monthly fee, and RIM splits the juicy profit with the carriers. They were like good partners each playing a good role to make good money.
Now, RIM is playing alone with this generic data plan tactic. It is a risky path trying to gain market shares. The steps are much more difficult now, without its carrier partners.
That is why you don't see many carrier stocking BB10 phones. In fact, I went out to buy my Q10 some time ago, one carrier was out of stock, and had no intention to restock.
I think it will be even harder to buy BB10 batteries or accessories. The carriers just don't care.
I am sure this BB10 tactic will be appealing to emerging market, just like Nokia is doing in India or Indonesia, getting the mass cost sensitive market. However, it is not easy, as we know RIM is not a well known marketing driven company.

[MarsupilamiX]

Turkey is a developed country. That's part of the Middle East.
South Africa is also a developed country. That's part of Africa of course.
in Southeast Asia there's Singapore as well as Hong Kong. Both developed countries.
In Latin America there's Chile. Another developed country.

In terms of population and potential sales for Blackberry, it's nothing to sneeze at.

You may want to learn something about the definition of a developing country/economy then.
For example, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

I'll give you Hong Kong and Singapur though, these are correct, but in terms of overall market size rather negligible.

Posted via CB10

Reading comprehension, good sir.. it works wonders.

I was talking about *developed* countries, not *developing* (and Hong Kong and Singapore are *developed* countries).

It seems, as if I am not the one having troubles to understand what he reads...
Which makes your comment kind of ironic.

Turkey is not a developed country.
South Africa isn't.
Chile isn't.
Since you consider these developed countries, I gave you a link to the definition of developing ones, so that you can understand why your statement was wrong.

I further proceeded to acknowledge, that Hong Kong and Singapore are indeed developed countries, but that they aren't that important, compared to the overall market size.
Which probably was the reason, why I forgot to mention them.

The fundamental problem here, isn't that I forgot to mention Hong Kong and Singapore, the problem is that you consider countries like Chile, Turkey or South Africa to be developed ones, even though this is incorrect, by the definitions commonly used to describe a "developed country".

Posted via CB10