02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    You're certain your info, and your opinion about what people want, is more accurate than mine.
    There's just no way for you to be certain!

    There are ways of proving many of the points discussed here. Are you so certain of yours that you're willing to lose the bet when I present the proof? I already have in mind how I am going to find and present this proof. Are you ready?

    People have presented some limited evidence already about some of these things ITT, but over the course of history human-beings with an emotional investment in their worldview have demonstrated remarkable ability to rationalize almost anything. Perhaps that is one of our uniquely human qualities.

    For example, johnnyuk manages around 50 BlackBerries in a company and this year offered a significant number of those a choice between a brand new BB10 device with a hardware keyboard or full touchscreen. Every single one of them picked the full touchscreen device. Secret conspiracy? Did someone slip a touchscreen drug into their lunch?

    There are ways to prove and disprove all sorts of armchair expert "internet opinions", it's just that the holders of those 2-cent opinions generally have a vested interest in promoting some kind of nonsense that "all opinions are equally true or valid". Rubbish sophistry to say the least.


    It's so annoying trying to respect your views when I think they're absolute nonsense most of the time...
    That's the most humorous thing I've heard all day, thanks.


    ...and you can't extend the same courtesy

    Actually everyone who is incorrect on some point is equally incorrect in my world, as are people who are correct on some point. And there are also plenty of examples where I don't yet know what the correct answer is and might ask someone else to help me understand something. I don't provide special "courtesy favors" of agreeing with someone who is cartoonishly and demonstrably incorrect on some point simply because they think their nonsensical opinions deserve special treatment for some strange reason.


    ...you just pop around talking about how important and educated your opinions are.

    If I disagree with you or think you are wrong on some point, chances are I will point that out, and in many cases will provide background data on how I arrived at that conclusion. I'm actually slightly renowned around here for the latter part. You have the right to do exactly the same. If you can't leave it at that, and have to get personal with me, then yes, you are picking fights.
    12-31-13 04:19 AM
  2. Omnitech's Avatar

    5. Extra terrestrial battery life

    I want one of those.
    darkehawke likes this.
    12-31-13 04:20 AM
  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    T
    For example, johnnyuk manages around 50 BlackBerries in a company and this year offered a significant number of those a choice between a brand new BB10 device with a hardware keyboard or full touchscreen. Every single one of them picked the full touchscreen device. Secret conspiracy? Did someone slip a touchscreen drug into their lunch?
    50 BlackBerrys? How is that in any way relevant to big enterprises needs that roll out thousands of devices while absolutely don't care in any way of what employees might want in a phone


    When you have to look after thousands of devices my guess is even the most hardcore IT professionals would want to limit the employees to the strictly basic needed functions.
    12-31-13 04:38 AM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    50 BlackBerrys? How is that in any way relevant to big enterprises needs that roll out thousands of devices while absolutely don't care in any way of what employees might want in a phone


    The only point I was making there pertains to peoples alleged "overwhelming preference for a hardware keyboard" that so many of the BBOS partisans keep claiming.

    He told staff members they could have either a full touch model or one with a HW keyboard, and they all picked the full touch models.

    Johnny please feel free to correct me if I am wrong or clarify.
    12-31-13 04:46 AM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The only point I was making there pertains to peoples alleged "overwhelming preference for a hardware keyboard" that so many of the BBOS partisans keep claiming.

    He told staff members they could have either a full touch model or one with a HW keyboard, and they all picked the full touch models.

    Johnny please feel free to correct me if I am wrong or clarify.
    So did I, twice, first the Storm2 then the Z10, both times I regretted it. It's in no way relevant.
    12-31-13 05:12 AM
  6. carrollmikej's Avatar
    So did I, twice, first the Storm2 then the Z10, both times I regretted it. It's in no way relevant.
    The Srorm (both iterations) were junk. Pure junk.

    Posted via CB10
    12-31-13 05:21 AM
  7. tinochiko's Avatar
    Link is awful and doesn't work half the time still. It also requires a computer. The old BlackBerry Protect a full backup could be done in the middle of a field. You could then wipe and restore the phone back to how it was without leaving that field. Which was useful when some ***** entered my password wrongly ten times. It was always reliable unlike link.

    Custom profiles. So I could create a work profile, which would have its own set of custom notifications, and I could slip into it with 2 clicks. This could allow me to have more professional tones while at work and then out of work whatever I wanted. I used to roll with 6 custom profiles not including the standard ones.

    Custom notifications are getting better but still not quite there. The vibrate settings and led features will go a long way to help.

    My point about the hub is that if I left it accidentally in a message. It's frustrating to receive a new message and not have any idea who it is from. I realise that some people like how it works now, that is why I asked for an option toggle. I always found the unified inbox a much more efficient process to the hub and that toggle to reset on exit would benefit me massively.

    The monitor is nice but it needs to show all information not just a snapshot. There is another thread showing that it doesn't show everything that is using resources.

    There are millions of legacy users not willing to take the leap to BlackBerry 10. I think how can we expect general consumers to make the leap if BlackBerry can't combine their own users to take a shot

    Posted via CB10
    But is has got better is what I'm saying, and I haven't yet had any issues with its latest version, although as you've said and I can see now about requiring a pc to restore/wipe, although link can wireless back up your BlackBerry you have to be connected to the same wifi network as pc and pc needs to be on etc, I do want to ask though, on legacy, where was your data backed up/restored from?

    Ah okay but with bedside mode which you can customise how notifications work when its enabled there is some sense of a custom profile

    Fair enough on the notifications

    Typo I meant *personal and I understand that but you can see where it's come from(or at least what kind of message it itms) by peeking before you even enter the hub no? An if it's a bbm message you don't have to go anywhere to respond but yeah it would work as an option

    Ah okay, but again most if not all of these points are minor improvements to the OS, some of which may well be in 10.2.1 that comes out officially and whilst your points pertaining to legacy (protect etc) may have some influence on individuals decision, as it has been said before, a lot of these people are going to iPhone/android who have little if any of the features you're talking about, leading me to think that there's more to it than that, which is marketing (under which comes promotion)

    If BlackBerry had sent a pin message (or an email to all registered BBID emails) at the launch of bb10 devices, I honestly thin the picture would be different, however slight, and rather than the features you pointed out, I would argue that if BlackBerry had invested or indeed now invests in making the switch from legacy to bb10 so easy(contacts, app data even settings included) that their legacy customer could get a bb10 device, enter some details. Get all their info they had on their legacy device and #KeepMoving straight away then a lot more people from Legacy would invest in bb10.

    As I've repeated several times, from my limited xp, I've gathered that

    1) some legacy didn't even know about BB10

    2) if they did it was a limited knowledge which meant they thought it was just another legacy device and therefore were drawn away by price

    3) a lot of people where annoyed with their xp on legacy in terms of ease of use, some who were getting a replacement of their legacy devices (with the same legacy device) couldn't/didn't know how to transfer their contacts etc - hence I stress that in order for then to be convinced to come to bb10 it must take minimal effort for them to do so

    It also need to be taken into account that a number of individuals got a legacy because it was cheap and for bbm etc. Thus they need to know why bb10 is worth the price, if it is why it's different which would need effective advertising, not just showing people the product but telling them how it solves their problem


    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    12-31-13 05:35 AM
  8. qbnkelt's Avatar
    So did I, twice, first the Storm2 then the Z10, both times I regretted it. It's in no way relevant.
    ****quietly leans over to BD.........

    ........Hey, BD, I just got a Q10 from the marketplace.....it's arriving Thursday......******
    12-31-13 05:38 AM
  9. bobauckland's Avatar
    There are ways of proving many of the points discussed here. Are you so certain of yours that you're willing to lose the bet when I present the proof? I already have in mind how I am going to find and present this proof. Are you ready?

    People have presented some limited evidence already about some of these things ITT, but over the course of history human-beings with an emotional investment in their worldview have demonstrated remarkable ability to rationalize almost anything. Perhaps that is one of our uniquely human qualities.

    For example, johnnyuk manages around 50 BlackBerries in a company and this year offered a significant number of those a choice between a brand new BB10 device with a hardware keyboard or full touchscreen. Every single one of them picked the full touchscreen device. Secret conspiracy? Did someone slip a touchscreen drug into their lunch?

    There are ways to prove and disprove all sorts of armchair expert "internet opinions", it's just that the holders of those 2-cent opinions generally have a vested interest in promoting some kind of nonsense that "all opinions are equally true or valid". Rubbish sophistry to say the least.




    That's the most humorous thing I've heard all day, thanks.





    Actually everyone who is incorrect on some point is equally incorrect in my world, as are people who are correct on some point. And there are also plenty of examples where I don't yet know what the correct answer is and might ask someone else to help me understand something. I don't provide special "courtesy favors" of agreeing with someone who is cartoonishly and demonstrably incorrect on some point simply because they think their nonsensical opinions deserve special treatment for some strange reason.





    If I disagree with you or think you are wrong on some point, chances are I will point that out, and in many cases will provide background data on how I arrived at that conclusion. I'm actually slightly renowned around here for the latter part. You have the right to do exactly the same. If you can't leave it at that, and have to get personal with me, then yes, you are picking fights.
    But you're only picking johnnyuk because he agrees with your points.
    I was on a committee looking into further BlackBerry deployment including PlayBook deployment in a biggish NHS Trust.
    I work with people issued with BlackBerry devices. I guarantee you the people who are issued with a BlackBerry would never give up a physical keyboard for a touch device, guaranteed, if they were offered a choice.

    I'll tell you this much, if you provide info about how I'm wrong, I'll accept it. I don't mind being wrong. But I'm not going to guarantee I'll accept your findings, or Blackberry's findings.
    Their studies didn't involve asking me. Or Belfast. Or lots of people who love bis and trackpads. Their studies led to bb10 being released in a state, it was a virtual laughing stock. I have no confidence in any biased studies they may present. Thors studies showed unprecedented demands for bb10 phones. Bull crap.

    Even a cb poll is useless because the users of this website are not representative of all BlackBerry users, it's heavily skewed in so many ways.
    But if you can somehow present evidence I haven't come across, I won't be difficult for the sake of it, I'll genuinely take it onboard. I'll be honest, that's all I can promise. I can't guarantee I'll be bowled over.

    Posted via CB10
    12-31-13 05:43 AM
  10. tinochiko's Avatar
    Sorry to jump in here but if a blackberry keyboard wasn't of such importance why would someone invest time and money in trying to bring that xp to an iPhone?

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    12-31-13 05:48 AM
  11. darkehawke's Avatar
    But is has got better is what I'm saying, and I haven't yet had any issues with its latest version, although as you've said and I can see now about requiring a pc to restore/wipe, although link can wireless back up your BlackBerry you have to be connected to the same wifi network as pc and pc needs to be on etc, I do want to ask though, on legacy, where was your data backed up/restored from?

    Ah okay but with bedside mode which you can customise how notifications work when its enabled there is some sense of a custom profile

    Fair enough on the notifications

    Typo I meant *personal and I understand that but you can see where it's come from(or at least what kind of message it itms) by peeking before you even enter the hub no? An if it's a bbm message you don't have to go anywhere to respond but yeah it would work as an option

    Ah okay, but again most if not all of these points are minor improvements to the OS, some of which may well be in 10.2.1 that comes out officially and whilst your points pertaining to legacy (protect etc) may have some influence on individuals decision, as it has been said before, a lot of these people are going to iPhone/android who have little if any of the features you're talking about, leading me to think that there's more to it than that, which is marketing (under which comes promotion)

    If BlackBerry had sent a pin message (or an email to all registered BBID emails) at the launch of bb10 devices, I honestly thin the picture would be different, however slight, and rather than the features you pointed out, I would argue that if BlackBerry had invested or indeed now invests in making the switch from legacy to bb10 so easy(contacts, app data even settings included) that their legacy customer could get a bb10 device, enter some details. Get all their info they had on their legacy device and #KeepMoving straight away then a lot more people from Legacy would invest in bb10.

    As I've repeated several times, from my limited xp, I've gathered that

    1) some legacy didn't even know about BB10

    2) if they did it was a limited knowledge which meant they thought it was just another legacy device and therefore were drawn away by price

    3) a lot of people where annoyed with their xp on legacy in terms of ease of use, some who were getting a replacement of their legacy devices (with the same legacy device) couldn't/didn't know how to transfer their contacts etc - hence I stress that in order for then to be convinced to come to bb10 it must take minimal effort for them to do so

    It also need to be taken into account that a number of individuals got a legacy because it was cheap and for bbm etc. Thus they need to know why bb10 is worth the price, if it is why it's different which would need effective advertising, not just showing people the product but telling them how it solves their problem


    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    No doubt link has improved but it is still unreliable.
    The old BlackBerry Protect had its data stored in a cloud somewhere. Not on the phone. It made changing phones such a breeze too. Also legacy had desktop software like link but much more reliable.
    Bedside mode isn't the same thing I'm talking about when it comes to profiles.
    In BlackBerry 10 we have preset profiles which can be customised. Things like "normal" "silent" and "vibrate only". On legacy you could add as many as you wanted. I had profiles for work, meetings, commuting, home, in the pub etc
    All sorts of different set ups of notifications that could instantly be switched between. BlackBerry 10 limits me in this sense.

    I see what you are saying for the rest of your post. I don't dispute that, but I do know a lot of legacy users stuck with BlackBerry for a reason, and those reasons aren't in BlackBerry 10.
    In regards to your point 3 it is ridiculously easy for legacy to switch to BlackBerry 10 as the legacy BlackBerry Protect app I love so much makes it a breeze. Backup on legacy and you get a one time restore on BlackBerry 10. That was what I did and it couldn't have been easier.

    Of course there are plenty of points I never touched on. I mean exposing ignorant legacy users to BlackBerry 10 is a different subject and addressing the needs of those who left BlackBerry is also a different set of issues.
    My post firmly focused on those with BlackBerry who refuse to move.

    And I agree price is a huge issue. I've been saying that from the launch. It's not the only issue though

    Posted via CB10
    12-31-13 05:49 AM
  12. CrackberryQ's Avatar
    I want one of those.
    Looool a bit exaggerated but sounded cooool! Lol

    Posted via CB10
    12-31-13 06:13 AM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    But you're only picking johnnyuk because he agrees with your points.
    I was on a committee looking into further BlackBerry deployment including PlayBook deployment in a biggish NHS Trust.
    I work with people issued with BlackBerry devices. I guarantee you the people who are issued with a BlackBerry would never give up a physical keyboard for a touch device, guaranteed, if they were offered a choice.

    I'll tell you this much, if you provide info about how I'm wrong, I'll accept it. I don't mind being wrong. But I'm not going to guarantee I'll accept your findings, or Blackberry's findings.
    Their studies didn't involve asking me. Or Belfast. Or lots of people who love bis and trackpads. Their studies led to bb10 being released in a state, it was a virtual laughing stock. I have no confidence in any biased studies they may present. Thors studies showed unprecedented demands for bb10 phones. Bull crap.

    Even a cb poll is useless because the users of this website are not representative of all BlackBerry users, it's heavily skewed in so many ways.
    But if you can somehow present evidence I haven't come across, I won't be difficult for the sake of it, I'll genuinely take it onboard. I'll be honest, that's all I can promise. I can't guarantee I'll be bowled over.

    Posted via CB10


    I had a detailed followup to this almost done and my garbage browser killed the entire edit buffer due to a slight slip of the finger on the keyboard, so oh well. Not going to spend any more time on it now.
    01-01-14 07:26 AM
  14. Davidro1's Avatar
    Is there a feature that lets one-to-one conversation to happen, publicly?

    As a user (not moderator), I'm asking.
    But you're ...
    ... your points...
    I was...
    I work...
    I guarantee you...
    I'll tell you...
    ...if you provide info about how I'm wrong, I'll accept it.
    I don't mind...
    I'm not...
    I'll accept your...
    didn't involve asking me...
    I have no confidence in...
    Bulk crap...
    But if you can somehow present evidence I haven't come across, I won't...
    I'll genuinely take it onboard. I'll be honest, that's all I can promise. I can't guarantee I'll be bowled over.
    Lots of "i" versus "you" and it's intended to a single user.
    I had a detailed followup to this almost done and my garbage browser killed the entire edit buffer due to a slight slip of the finger on the keyboard, so oh well. Not going to spend any more time on it now.
    If side conversations could be linked closely to the thread that would be great. The central subject can be discussed without the meta.
    01-01-14 08:15 AM
  15. bobauckland's Avatar
    Is there a feature that lets one-to-one conversation to happen, publicly?

    As a user (not moderator), I'm asking.

    Lots of "i" versus "you" and it's intended to a single user.
    If side conversations could be linked closely to the thread that would be great. The central subject can be discussed without the meta.
    The topic of the thread is why os7 is outselling bb10. Omni and I have completely opposite views on why this is.
    So the convo, though personally directed between two posters, is very much linked to the topic of the thread.
    Hope that helps.

    Posted via CB10
    01-01-14 08:22 AM
  16. bobauckland's Avatar
    I had a detailed followup to this almost done and my garbage browser killed the entire edit buffer due to a slight slip of the finger on the keyboard, so oh well. Not going to spend any more time on it now.
    Shoulda used bb10
    Happy new year mate

    Posted via CB10
    01-01-14 08:22 AM
  17. Davidro1's Avatar
    Here's a post of the same type.

    See but this is the part that really gets to me about you.
    You talk about...
    ... you talk about are...
    You don't...
    You don't...
    You don't...
    You don't...
    Prefacing your opinion...
    ...you have supported...
    ...you should...
    ...you claimed...
    Haven't forum software makers foreseen the need to go meta, but remain linked to the thread.
    This would enable two things. 1. the central discussion of the thread remains central, unpolluted. 2. Meta stuff remains linked to it.
    Last edited by Davidro1; 01-01-14 at 08:52 AM.
    01-01-14 08:31 AM
  18. Davidro1's Avatar
    Canadian cellphone companies are still referring to BlackBerry in their documentation as though it was bbos and not "either bb10 or bbos". This is visible because of the way they describe limits on various features and services as "Not available on BlackBerry" instead of specifying clearly as "excluding bbos(7)".

    So the buying public, and many employees, cannot learn that bb10 doesn't have the same limits as bbos.

    They cannot learn it because it is never made clear.

    Here's an example. A pay-as-you-go customer can buy data (e.g. $10/month add-on).
    It's described as an option for
    "Smartphones excluding BlackBerry Smartphones"
    (!)
    There are many more examples of documentation saying "not available on a BlackBerry smartphone." when they mean to exclude only bbos devices.

    In the end, the readers remember only that BlackBerry Did Not Have the ability to get all the latest services options and carrier-provided features that any other smartphone could get. So, they are not going to get a bb10 phone if it is Excluded explicitly in most documentation.

    To double check this, read the websites of the Canadian carriers.

    I'll guess that no-one at BlackBerry has been charged with the task of correcting faulty information in the carriers' documents.
    Last edited by Davidro1; 01-01-14 at 09:01 AM.
    01-01-14 08:31 AM
  19. ronfc's Avatar
    To answer the question:
    It's simply because it is cheaper.

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1925
    01-01-14 08:37 AM
  20. Omnitech's Avatar
    Is there a feature that lets one-to-one conversation to happen, publicly?

    As a user (not moderator), I'm asking.

    Lots of "i" versus "you" and it's intended to a single user.

    If side conversations could be linked closely to the thread that would be great. The central subject can be discussed without the meta.


    It's an interesting idea, re "meta threads".

    There are more sophisticated content rating/voting systems that do a better job of "throttling" posts that most readers find unhelpful even without such measures, though.

    The one I am most familiar with is Slashdot.

    On that system, posts can be both UPvoted and DOWNvoted, for interest/relevancy.

    Then each user gets a default "visibility threshold" when they read a thread. A comment rated below their "visibility threshold" is hidden by default, but can be individually opened/read if desired. (It's not entirely hidden - you see there is a post there and you see who it is from along with a timestamp, but that is it)

    If your default threshold is "+1", and you find yourself often reading posts rated "-2" and above, you can change your default visibility threshold to ie "-2". Etc.

    The nice thing about such a system is that it doesn't require any actual censorship of posts, it just hides things likely to be useless noise, by default. And the user has full control of it, they can turn it all off if they want and see all the noise too.

    Unfortunately I'm not sure the forum platforum they are using here supports that kind of system.
    01-01-14 10:03 AM
  21. bobauckland's Avatar
    Here's a post of the same type.


    Haven't forum software makers foreseen the need to go meta, but remain linked to the thread.
    This would enable two things. 1. the central discussion of the thread remains central, unpolluted. 2. Meta stuff remains linked to it.
    It has already been gently explained to you that the convo between omni and I is all linked to the thread.
    In fact your previous post about limitations of bb7 being confused with bb10, while that may be true, has nothing at all to do with the thread point ie why bb7 is outselling bb10.

    If you still can't deal with that feel free to contact a mod or the staff site with your suggestions about how you can make the forum better. Good luck with that.

    Posted via CB10
    01-01-14 10:05 AM
  22. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Part one:
    Who is buying BBOS phones and why :
    1. Users in developing countries where BlackBerry still has Brand loyalty and prices have dropped.
    2. Replacement of current BBOS devices that they like ( BBOS has a large installed base compared to BB10).
    3. BIS plans - mainly in places like India, Nigeria and South Africa.
    4. BBM - really relates to installed base in countries where BBM was still dominant and the phone mainly used as a texting device.
    5. Networks - In some developing countries the networks are too slow to warrant an upgraded phone.
    6. In North America - mainly to replace older business phones before upgrading to latest BES software.
    7. The majority of BBOS handsets are purchased as a cheap but good physical keyboard phone that is excellent as a communication device rather than to consume media.

    Part Two:
    Why isn't BB10 selling well:
    1. Software is not initially as easy to use as iOS or Android - BBOS is more like these other platforms than BB10.
    In store demo phones seldom are working and if they do consumers can't get past the demo mode.
    2. Lack of advertising relative to Samsung and Apple.
    3. Lack of apps - most sites only offer android or ios apps. Lack of many popular apps.
    4. Lacking many features that BBOS power users like - this group is in a waiting mode.
    5. Reviews of the soft ware and hardware do not place BB10 devices into the top ten of smartphone devices.
    6. Hardware - the niche for an expensive physical keyboard phone with a small screen is not large. The Z10 has much larger bezels than other new phones, not very attractive and has a reputation for poor battery life, average camera and unreliability ( returns). The Z30 is larger than phones with the same screen size, screen not very sharp and the phone is heavy.
    7. This might seem trivial but most consumers prefer to have their phone with the standard way to turn the phone on, home button and the familiar start up page with icons.
    8. New OS - still in Beta form . BBOS users still on sidelines and other phone consumers prefer to be in their established ecosystems. UI is dull and drab.
    9. BlackBerry brand - seen as yesterday's phone and not as leading edge. A phone used middle aged and older consumers.
    10. At the present time Carriers have lost interest in selling the devices - in the USA you have to seek them out and not all carriers sell them. They were and continue to be priced too high.
    11. BB10 hardware and software not seen as having any advantages over established all touch phones. Companies giving choice of other brands to employees. BYOD.


    Edit : End on a positive note - my son in law works for a large CDN company and they are upgrading his 9900 to a Q10.

    BlackBerry can turn things around with the new phones and improved marketing to corporations. I also think that android owners being more open to the platform if they can use android apps.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 01-01-14 at 08:42 PM.
    01-01-14 11:24 AM
  23. Davidro1's Avatar
    For millenia it has been known that to enable productive discussion and debate, the general rule is to use speech that avoids "you" especially when the "you" is a reproach, and therefore also avoids "I versus you" -- so this explains why we see committee members speaking to the committee chairperson and why we see elected officials in a parliament or chamber, speaking to the presiding officer or to the "speaker of the house". It is All Geared to Avoiding head to head, back and forth, to and fro, tit for tat, you think I think, blow versus blow, interaction. So there. Now you know. In case you never knew this from your earlier upbringing. (( yes, I've used "you" in this paragraph. ))

    Below, i see sentences all very personal, all "you".

    It has ... to you ... between omni and I ...


    In fact your previous post about limitations of bb7 ....

    If you still can't deal with that feel free to ...

    Good luck with that.
    I once pointed out to someone that every one of their posts was all about that post-er saying "I" in every sentence. The forum participants later chimed in to say that person was a drama queen.

    Here, it's different. We have someone taking issue with Omnitech in many discussions over many seasons. It hasn't gotten resolved or lessened over time.

    If moderators step in now, that is leadership. Leadership is fine.

    My post above, about the incorrect information in Canadian carrier documentation, is to show that it's possible -- or probable -- that any neophyte buyer is going to get confused if he or.she does.their.homework (i.e. tries to understand their options) and Reads That many services are Not Available on BlackBerry smartphones. Is this clear now? Or too clear! The published and printed information is false, incorrect, not right. This hinders sales.

    Stated another way, perhaps more clearly to some readers, is this: those who wanted to get the latest and most bestest smartphone would be deterred, not get a bb10, because the carriers confused the information about What You Can Get From the Carrier when you buy a brand new smartphone. Because said documentation kept on repeating "not on BlackBerry smartphones".

    It didn't deter me at all, because I read through, read between the lines, And Because I Challenge a lot and I often get the right answer when the crowd doesn't get it. That's me. I'm very different from the average.

    Today, in another post in one of the discussion threads in the CB BlackBerry forum, I saw someone wrote about going into carriers' retail stores and picking fights with the people working there in order to shake them up about their biases and ignorance. That was an interesting intriguing read. I don't go "pick fights" but I sometimes find that I'm the first one developing a new train of thought.

    Thank you to Bbnivende.
    I hope my observation about the incorrect information published in BlackBerry's home market is worth adding to the Bbnivende list.
    Part one:

    Part Two:
    Over and out
    Last edited by Davidro1; 01-01-14 at 03:48 PM.
    01-01-14 03:35 PM
  24. George Gill's Avatar
    The effort was there, BB10 was pushed very hard in first half this year, ads everywhere, TV, cinemas, billboards etc.

    Only now the OS is becoming usable and only because of leaks.

    It's not the advertising that failed, it was the OS itself and the platform attached to it.
    I totally disagree with you on this point, if you ask anyone who has used or still use legacy devices what is the difference between OS7 and BB10 most of them don't know, and because they don't know they dismiss any new BB10 smartphone. I have done my little research on the current perception of blackberry and it's based on nothing but hearsay a lot of these people couldn't tell me what is wrong with BlackBerry except they would rather get defensive and say BlackBerry is dead but they couldn't tell me why. When i show them what a great phone the Z10 is they are often surprised and I've managed to get a few to even buy the phone once they understood what this phone and BB10 is capable of. Perception is what is killing BlackBerry not the quality of the products they have and I've personally seen people return to BlackBerry most of them realizing that they bought into the negative perception of blackberry without even knowing the facts. As i type this the guy sitting next to me is asking me questions about my phone and is very charmed at the ease at which i use the keyboard, I'm sure when I'm done with him he is going to get himself a BlackBerry 10 device . BlackBerry 10 was not pushed hard enough in the way that it educated the end user on the new smartphone and what is different about it . Personally in South Africa BB10 was not pushed with the right message and its the same throughout the world, and that's why it's not doing well if the marketing was done properly it would have taken off much better than it has.

    Posted via CB10
    Davidro1 likes this.
    01-02-14 01:12 AM
  25. Omnitech's Avatar
    I totally disagree with you on this point, if you ask anyone who has used or still use legacy devices what is the difference between OS7 and BB10 most of them don't know, and because they don't know they dismiss any new BB10 smartphone. I have done my little research on the current perception of blackberry and it's based on nothing but hearsay a lot of these people couldn't tell me what is wrong with BlackBerry except they would rather get defensive and say BlackBerry is dead but they couldn't tell me why.

    As someone who spent more than 10 years on the retail salesfloor and a majority of that selling consumer electronic products, I can tell you that this is a very common problem.

    The reasons that many or even most people buy a certain product are typically emotional reasons, social reasons, psychological things unrelated to specific functionality, but rather "image" and "reputation" and "status" issues that typically come from ambiguous or mysterious sources.

    In my experience I found that more often than not, if I as a salesperson attempted to provide more details on the SPECIFIC reasons why one product might be a better choice for them, people have a VERY limited capacity to absorb this kind of data. They can absorb 1, 2, maybe 3 points AT MOST. Anything more and it confuses and disturbs them, they "feel dumb" and overwhelmed and they will lose all interest in buying from you and walk away immediately.

    Then they will go down the street and buy something from the guy who simply agrees with their existing bias, ie "SAMSUNG IS GREAT, YESSSS..".

    I had co-workers who were the most despicable panderers to this sort of monkey-brain mentality, AND THEY SOLD THINGS LIKE CRAZY.

    People often complain about the favoritism in cellphone store staff - it is because this is what sells more product. MOST people want to be TOLD WHAT TO BUY. They want a SIMPLE answer.

    Sad but true. It was in part that realization that drove me out of the business.
    Davidro1 and Bbnivende like this.
    01-02-14 01:39 AM
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