02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. johnnyuk's Avatar
    It's impossible for BB to promote the Z10 at this stage, the messaging is already too fragmented with the Z30 for example, no miracast, no USB host, no fancy antenna, no natural sound etc. the Z10 no longer offers the full the BB10 experience, never mind the full smartphone experience.

    The only thing they can do is leave it in the shops and hope it will sell, pretty much the same thing they did with BB7 devices.
    Why are you surprised that a new model of phone has hardware features that an older model doesn't?! Happens all the time in the world of technology, and the mobile tech world moves on much faster than most!

    The Z10 has been superceded but it is still a good phone especially at the price it is being sold for sim free and PAYG in the UK. And I absolutely dispute that it is not a full smartphone experience, my fleet of 48 Z10 users at work couldn't be happier with their Z10s working and playing "smartly" every day.

    I have had people I've got on the Z10 train make a point of telling me that it is the best smartphone they have ever used for assisting them at work. And those people have tried iPhone, tried Android and some even Windows Phone.

    To be honest with you, you need to experience a Z10, or any BB10 phone, in an Enterprise on BES10 server to truly see what a wonderful smartphone it is.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 12-28-13 at 12:04 PM.
    ajst222 and tinochiko like this.
    12-28-13 11:17 AM
  2. johnnyuk's Avatar
    In fairness, none but the hardcore android user knows an ice cream sandwich from a jelly bean. Same holds true for iOS 6 and 7.

    Posted via CB10
    So true!

    Mind you some people can tell the difference between iOS 6 and 7 because 7 looks like it was designed by a 12 year old as "my first smartphone/tablet". Day Glow!!!!! Woo!!!

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    TgeekB likes this.
    12-28-13 11:20 AM
  3. tinochiko's Avatar
    To be honest with you, you need to experience a Z10, or any BB10 phone, in an Enterprise on BES10 server to truly see what a wonderful smartphone it is.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2[/QUOTE]

    Yeah man, you guys get balance

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    12-28-13 11:25 AM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Why are you surprised that a new model of phone has hardware features that an older model doesn't?! Happens all the time in the world of technology, and the mobile tech world moves in faster than most!

    The Z10 has been superceded but it is still a good phone especially at the price it is being sold for sim free and PAYG in the UK. And I absolutely dispute that it is not a full smartphone experience, my fleet of 48 Z10 users at work couldn't be happier with their Z10s working and playing "smartly" every day.

    I have had people I've got on the Z10 train make a point of telling me that it is the best smartphone they have ever used for assisting them at work. And those people have tried iPhone, tried Android and some even Windows Phone.

    To be honest with you, you need to experience a Z10, or any BB10 phone, in an Enterprise on BES10 server to truly see what a wonderful smartphone it is.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Nobody's disputing that some people are happy with their BB10 device, especially if they have the benefit of BES.

    The problem is there's just so few of them, so few that even the 3 year old BB7 platform outsells BB10. This is in no way a measure of success for BB7, rather a measure of failure for BB10.
    TgeekB and JeepBB like this.
    12-28-13 11:37 AM
  5. ajst222's Avatar
    Nobody's disputing that some people are happy with their BB10 device, especially if they have the benefit of BES.

    The problem is there's just so few of them, so few that even the 3 year old BB7 platform outsells BB10. This is in no way a measure of success for BB7, rather a measure of failure for BB10.
    I don't think that anyone is going to dispute the fact that BB10 (sales wise) was a failure but that doesn't mean the software and the OS itself was. As I said earlier in the thread, it's about the effort that was put in mainly to push the new platform. That effort wasn't there. The awareness wasn't there. And that equals poor sales.
    johnnyuk likes this.
    12-28-13 11:40 AM
  6. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Nobody's disputing that some people are happy with their BB10 device, especially if they have the benefit of BES.
    You were disputing that the Z10 offers a full smartphone experience earlier! Way to go changing the subject.

    The problem is there's just so few of them, so few that even the 3 year old BB7 platform outsells BB10. This is in no way a measure of success for BB7, rather a measure of failure for BB10.
    It is a failure of BlackBerry the company to get people to see how good BB10 is and to want it, not a failure of BB10. You seem to blame everything on the OS rather than those who made it and are responsible for getting it in to people's hands.

    I've said this in another thread recently, BlackBerry could put a phone in a box on sale that was a true iPhone killer bundled with the cure for cancer and the secret of eternal youth and still most people wouldn't look inside the box because of the BlackBerry logo on it. Their brand image is that bad right now due to totally ineffective marketing. And I am one who believes that EVERYTHING is marketing. One mistake, even internal, if it goes public is bad marketing.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    ajst222 likes this.
    12-28-13 12:10 PM
  7. SFCDallas's Avatar
    Because the os7 phones are a lot cheaper to buy

    Swordsmanship Channel C000C9AF6
    Actually all OS7 devices on Sprint are more expensive.

    Posted via CB10
    12-28-13 12:14 PM
  8. ajst222's Avatar
    Actually all OS7 devices on Sprint are more expensive.

    Posted via CB10

    That's an interesting point. At Verizon the Bold 9930 is $99 with a contract I believe. That's CRAZY!
    12-28-13 12:15 PM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I don't think that anyone is going to dispute the fact that BB10 (sales wise) was a failure but that doesn't mean the software and the OS itself was. As I said earlier in the thread, it's about the effort that was put in mainly to push the new platform. That effort wasn't there. The awareness wasn't there. And that equals poor sales.
    The effort was there, BB10 was pushed very hard in first half this year, ads everywhere, TV, cinemas, billboards etc.

    Only now the OS is becoming usable and only because of leaks.

    It's not the advertising that failed, it was the OS itself and the platform attached to it.
    12-28-13 12:21 PM
  10. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Yeah man, you guys get balance

    TechCraze C0008DDD1
    And it is so great to be able to connect in to work without having to fire up the laptop or sit in front of the computer and load up Citrix just to Remote Desktop on to my PC and servers at work.

    I nip on to my PC on my desk and my servers at work all the time from my Z10 where ever I am with no VPN or app virtualisation (Citrix) required. For anyone who works in IT a BB10 phone is fantastic.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-28-13 12:21 PM
  11. jegs2's Avatar
    Yep, and its easy to get locked into a contract that can be expensive to buy out of. For example, if I wanted to replace my 9930 with a Q10, I'd have to do one of the following:

    - Wait a year, and pay the upgrade price (upgrades every two years) - currently $150
    - Pay full-price for it now: $525
    - Upgrade to a more expensive plan that allows upgrades every year, after paying off current contract

    - Another 'outside the box' option would be to purchase a Q10 on eBay, and activate it on Sprint
    12-28-13 12:21 PM
  12. southlander's Avatar
    Ever heard of BYOD?
    You know a funny fact about that movement?
    You guessed correctly, one reason for it, was BBOS.
    Because employees didn't want a BlackBerry anymore.
    These employees are actually paying for their phones themselves, TO NOT USE A BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah. Interesting. Lol. PCs brought freedom from control of the mainframe guys and apple and android brought freedom from your BES admin.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1259
    johnnyuk and Bishkin like this.
    12-28-13 12:22 PM
  13. ajst222's Avatar
    The effort was there, BB10 was pushed very hard in first half this year, ads everywhere, TV, cinemas, billboards etc.

    Only now the OS is becoming usable and only because of leaks.

    It's not the advertising that failed, it was the OS itself and the platform attached to it.

    Maybe where you are but I've never seen a single billboard and very few commercials...all of which pretty much sucked. That wasn't effort. That was the half @ss stuff I was talking about. And what are you talking about "usable and only because of leaks"? Give me a break. It was he advertising that failed. All day long. It screamed business phone. "Keep Moving"...c'mon.

    I know where you are (UK) BB10 was pushed probably harder than anywhere else but BlackBerry at least has some sort of presence there. As bad as the marketing was, it still appeared to work. And where there was no marketing they didn't sell squat.
    12-28-13 12:34 PM
  14. johnnyuk's Avatar
    The effort was there, BB10 was pushed very hard in first half this year, ads everywhere, TV, cinemas, billboards etc.

    Only now the OS is becoming usable and only because of leaks.

    It's not the advertising that failed, it was the OS itself and the platform attached to it.
    Wow, you DO actually believe that BB10 has failed to take off so far because of BB10 itself don't you? Incredible.

    Yes BlackBerry "had a go" at marketing BB10 themselves, they splashed cash and got air time. And being the clueless out-of-touch Corporate behemoth they are they utterly failed to get any kind of inspirational message across about how great and different and better than BBOS then new BB10 is.

    I'm a fan of BB10 and all in can remember BlackBerry telling me in adverts is if you're a lady in a business suit you can use the new phones while walking up some stairs. Wow. Game changing.

    Oh and something about the new Z10 gives you Elephantitis of the feet and changes things in the street in to lots of multi coloured balls like a magic TV remote. But I bet that "app" was out on iOS first and is actually juts a ported Android app.

    Moving on, what on Earth makes you think anything prior to BB10.2.1.x is "unusable"?!!??

    Let me guess, it will be one thing, specific to you and maybe one other soul living in a cave on the other side of the planet, that BB10 when you tried it either couldn't yet do or was bugged but that's means that the WHOLE OS is unusable.

    I'm sorry but you are talking right out of your **** chute when you infer that anything prior to 10.2.1.x is unusable.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    ajst222 likes this.
    12-28-13 12:38 PM
  15. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Yeah. Interesting. Lol. PCs brought freedom from control of the mainframe guys and apple and android brought freedom from your BES admin.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1259
    Until I upgraded to BES10.

    Mwuhahahahahahaaaaaaaaa!!!

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    southlander likes this.
    12-28-13 12:42 PM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Wow, you DO actually believe that BB10 has failed to take off so far because of BB10 itself don't you? Incredible.

    Yes BlackBerry "had a go" at marketing BB10 themselves, they splashed cash and got air time. And being the clueless out-of-touch Corporate behemoth they are they utterly failed to get any kind of inspirational message across about how great and different and better than BBOS then new BB10 is.

    I'm a fan of BB10 and all in can remember BlackBerry telling me in adverts is if you're a lady in a business suit you can use the new phones while walking up some stairs. Wow. Game changing.

    Oh and something about the new Z10 gives you Elephantitis of the feet and changes things in the street in to lots of multi coloured balls like a magic TV remote. But I bet that "app" was out on iOS first and is actually juts a ported Android app.

    Moving on, what on Earth makes you think anything prior to BB10.2.1.x is "unusable"?!!??

    Let me guess, it will be one thing, specific to you and maybe one other soul living in a cave on the other side of the planet, that BB10 when you tried it either couldn't yet do or was bugged but that's means that the WHOLE OS is unusable.

    I'm sorry but you are talking right out of your **** chute when you infer that anything prior to 10.2.1.x is unusable.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    I had a Z10 that I got at launch, it wouldn't let me send attachments or reply to emails from my imap account, search for "BB10 smtp bug" making it unusable for me and others(not to mention the 30 day of emails limit problem). Every day people were complaining on BB's Facebook page about their emails and BB simply ignored all if them, including me.

    Shortly after it got the Q10 it started showing the same problems, I even started a thread about it(look it up), it was the leak that fixed it. And later the leak wiped 3 months of emails and all my texts.

    Edit: http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=856742

    Edit 2 Cut it out with the personal attacks and insults, you're a civilised grown man I presume.
    bobauckland likes this.
    12-28-13 12:51 PM
  17. ajst222's Avatar
    I had a Z10 that I got at launch, it wouldn't let me send attachments or reply to emails from my imap account, search for "BB10 smtp bug" making it unusable for me and others(not to mention the 30 day of emails limit problem). Every day people were complaining on BB's Facebook page about their emails and BB simply ignored all if them, including me.

    Shortly after it got the Q10 it started showing the same problems, I even started a thread about it(look it up), it was the leak that fixed it. And later the leak wiped 3 months of emails and all my texts.

    Edit: http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=856742

    Edit 2 Cut it out with the personal attacks and insults, you're a civilised grown man I presume.
    Because you and few other people had an email problem with BB10 doesn't make the OS unusable. And I know you hate the whole email experience (and every other experience) on BB10 but you are one of the few. I know how much you love BBOS but I don't think you want to get the whole community started about bugs and unusability of BBOS. That was some REAL unusability.
    12-28-13 01:08 PM
  18. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Every day people were complaining on BB's Facebook page about their emails and BB simply ignored all if them, including me.
    They ignored all of you? I'm very sorry to hear that.

    Shortly after it got the Q10 it started showing the same problems, I even started a thread about it(look it up), it was the leak that fixed it.
    So BlackBerry ignored you all by fixing the identified bugs in a later build of the OS? My that was dastardly of them wasn't it. The scoundrels! How dare they ignore you like that.

    Edit 2 Cut it out with the personal attacks and insults, you're a civilised grown man I presume.
    Sorry but it's what you drive me to with the arrogance of your claims and the way you change the subject or worse go completely silent on them when you it's pointed out to you that you are wrong.

    Still think that fact Vodafone screwed you out of a Q10 on 3G is BlackBerry's fault?

    Still think BES10 doesn't support managing BBOS phones?

    Still think BBOS wasn't a technological dead end and it could have all of its fundamental flaws fixed without breaking compatibility with previous software?

    I'd like to know.


    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-28-13 01:31 PM
  19. d0n4lduck's Avatar
    I've said this in another thread recently, BlackBerry could put a phone in a box on sale that was a true iPhone killer bundled with the cure for cancer and the secret of eternal youth and still most people wouldn't look inside the box because of the BlackBerry logo on it. Their brand image is that bad right now due to totally ineffective marketing. And I am one who believes that EVERYTHING is marketing. One mistake, even internal, if it goes public is bad marketing.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    I just came across this website:

    Smartphone Preference and Spending in Emerging Asia - Jana Mobile

    containing surveys of mobile phone users in emerging markets.

    I guess the result of the survey-question: "If you could buy any mobile phone in the world, what phone would you buy?" from the Indonesian market, in which 20.56% of the respondents say Blackberry, indicates that the "Blackberry" brand is still strong in the Indonesian market. This fact may have lead Blackberry to name their next cheap phones "Jakarta" and designate them for the Indonesian market.

    Hope the survey is reliable and they are making the right move so that the result from the launch can save them big time.
    johnnyuk likes this.
    12-28-13 01:39 PM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They ignored all of you? I'm very sorry to hear that.



    So BlackBerry ignored you all by fixing the identified bugs in a later build of the OS? My that was dastardly of them wasn't it. The scoundrels! How dare they ignore you like that.



    Sorry but it's what you drive me to with the arrogance of your claims and the way you change the subject or worse go completely silent on them when you it's pointed out to you that you are wrong.

    Still think that fact Vodafone screwed you out of a Q10 on 3G is BlackBerry's fault?

    Still think BES10 doesn't support managing BBOS phones?

    Still think BBOS wasn't a technological dead end and it could have all of its fundamental flaws fixed without breaking compatibility with previous software?

    I'd like to know.


    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Dude, they didn't fix it, the problem is still there, the leak did fix that problem but brought another even bigger problem. Do you consider a leak one year later a fix?

    And no, BES10 doesn't support BBOS devices, not without the old BES installed. No other platform requires additional software on BES10. Don't you get the irony?

    Now you call me arrogant? More flattery!
    12-28-13 01:49 PM
  21. johnnyuk's Avatar
    from the Indonesian market, in which 20.56% of the respondents say Blackberry, indicates that the "Blackberry" brand is still strong in the Indonesian market.
    Yep there's at least one country left where their name isn't yet mud. Let's watch how BlackBerry screws that one up somehow! Lol

    Have you heard the phrase "big in Japan"? Well it's like a less impressive version of that, BlackBerry are "big in Indonesia" lol.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-28-13 01:55 PM
  22. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Dude, they didn't fix it, the problem is still there, the leak did fix that problem but brought another even bigger problem. Do you consider a leak one year later a fix?
    No, I consider an official release containing the fix to be the fix. If you want to be constructive report bugs you find to BlackBerry through their support forums or better the Beta Zone site, and be patient and wait for the fix to be rolled out like everybody else.

    And no, BES10 doesn't support BBOS devices,
    Wrong. You haven't even been within sniffing distance of a BES10 server, you're an armchair BESAdmin.

    not without the old BES installed.
    For crying out loud, I TOLD YOU THAT! You learned that from ME!!!! You're unbelievable.

    And yet you still think that being able to manage BBOS phones with BES10 is somehow BES10 not supporting BBOS devices.

    I give up.

    Oh wait no I don't! Here see my BES10 server supporting BBOS devices with your own eyes!

    Behold! BBOS devices on BES5 being supported by BES10:

    Why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10?-img_00000242.png


    Behold! BBOS devices on BES Express 5 being supported by BES10:

    Why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10?-img_00000243.png

    But I suppose you'll claim that somehow BlackBerry have hacked in to the optical cortex of your eyes and what you are seeing with them isn't real. Bad BlackBerry, naughty BlackBerry.

    No other platform requires additional software on BES10. Don't you get the irony?
    I'd get the irony if there was any to get.

    What you aren't aware of because you're not a BESAdmin, or a qualified IT professional in any way shape or form, is that the Universal Device Service used to manage Android and iOS devices is a completely separate piece of software from the BlackBerry Device Service used to manage BB10 and PlayBook devices.

    There is no "single" monolithic piece of BES10 of software, it is modular, it is multiple components working together. That's why it's not called BlackBerry Enterprise Server anymore, it's Service not Server.

    The BlackBerry Management Studio uses the web services of UDS, BDS, BES5 and BES Express 5 to support the management of devices activated against each module.

    There is no difference in the way BES10 supports BB10, iOS & Android, or BBOS devices in that they are supported through completely SEPARATE software modules.

    BlackBerry could quite conceivablely bundle BES Express 5 as part of the BES10 install but seeing as how it's already available for free it would just make the installation of BES10 more complicated than it needed to be, especially if you don't have legacy BBOS phones. And if you are upgrading from full BES5 then you already have it so why bundle it?

    "Why bundle it" is particularly pertinent if you are installing BES10 because you are trying to do the right thing for your users and get them off those god awful BBOS phones and on to BB10.



    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by pkcable; 12-30-13 at 08:23 AM. Reason: too far
    Omnitech likes this.
    12-28-13 03:10 PM
  23. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Oh and you only answered one of the three questions, two still to go:

    Still think that fact Vodafone screwed you out of a Q10 on 3G is BlackBerry's fault?

    Still think BBOS wasn't a technological dead end and it could have all of its fundamental flaws fixed without breaking compatibility with previous software?

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-28-13 03:18 PM
  24. bobauckland's Avatar
    They ignored all of you? I'm very sorry to hear that.



    So BlackBerry ignored you all by fixing the identified bugs in a later build of the OS? My that was dastardly of them wasn't it. The scoundrels! How dare they ignore you like that.



    Sorry but it's what you drive me to with the arrogance of your claims and the way you change the subject or worse go completely silent on them when you it's pointed out to you that you are wrong.

    Still think that fact Vodafone screwed you out of a Q10 on 3G is BlackBerry's fault?

    Still think BES10 doesn't support managing BBOS phones?

    Still think BBOS wasn't a technological dead end and it could have all of its fundamental flaws fixed without breaking compatibility with previous software?

    I'd like to know.


    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    It's the Internet dude. No ones wrong, no one's right, everyone has opinions.
    Why do you keep berating other people for having wrong opinions? You do realise the other side of the argument is shaking their head at your posts and thinking the same thing I hope.

    Posted via CB10
    TgeekB likes this.
    12-28-13 04:27 PM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    The effort was there, BB10 was pushed very hard in first half this year, ads everywhere, TV, cinemas, billboards etc.

    Only now the OS is becoming usable and only because of leaks.

    It's not the advertising that failed, it was the OS itself and the platform attached to it.
    And the timing. It was a couple years too late.
    12-28-13 04:40 PM
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