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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Because the market is embracing other OS devices and many companies and Government are testing those devices for use because BBOS doesn't deliver everything needed today!

    Posted via CB10
    With 99% of the market buying non-BBOS devices, who would have thought that...
    I sometimes wonder how certain users perceive reality.
    It's as if they didn't detect the paradigm shift happening everywhere around them.

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk likes this.
    12-27-13 05:57 AM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    What exactly are you trying to prove by saying try running BB10 on 2011 hardware?!? That a mobile OS from 2013 needs 2012/13 hardware specs? Well no sh1t Sherlock! Have you seen how poorly iOS7 runs on an iPhone 4? It's no great surprise.

    If BlackBerry had done what I think they should have and released a QNX based next generation phone OS and hardware line in 2011 then it would have had to run well on specs like a 1.2ghz processor, maybe even single core, and 1GB of RAM. It may have had to have been more limited in features compared to the BB10 we know, such as no Hub, or perhaps not if they'd implemented virtual memory or an iOS style hybrid.

    The problem with BBOS was that it got too much focus at BlackBerry for too long. OS7 and that generation of phones should never have seen the light of day. The underwhelming OS6 should have been where it ended and where QNX should have taken over.

    BlackBerry's collapse in to its near death spiral happened when BBOS phones were the only phones you could buy.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    We can crap on OS7 all day long but in the end OS7 is the only thing leaving the blackberry factories that still remotely sales.

    Many if you like to have these high specs, high power blackberrys but the problem is they are not selling, nobody wants them, pure and simple. And it was never the BlackBerry way anyway, they have always been waaaay behind on hardware specs.

    Trying to revive BBOS now is kind of crazy, but continuing on with BB10 is even crazier.


    New OS7 devices for the existing enterprise customers makes much more sense then trying to get them all to change to BB10.

    I don't know about you but if one of my suppliers discontinue one service I don't automatically use the service they replace it with, I'll look around at what other suppliers have to offer.
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-27-13 06:02 AM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    We can crap on OS7 all day long but in the end OS7 is the only thing leaving the blackberry factories that still remotely sales.
    It's so boring to tell you every single time the same things.
    It's worse than a brick wall...

    BlackBerry's losses already begun under BBOS, while BB10 was not even being talked about.
    A BlackBerry with 1% marketshare and BBOS is as viable as a BlackBerry with a combined markertshare of 1.5%: not at all.
    There are Android manufacturers with more than 4% marketshare, still realising losses.
    Welcome to the reality of the current market.

    Many if you like to have these high specs, high power blackberrys but the problem is they are not selling, nobody wants them, pure and simple.
    What does that mean?

    Trying to revive BBOS now is kind of crazy, but continuing on with BB10 is even crazier.
    You totally understood everything...

    Let's revive a 10 year old platform that is as dead as it could be without axing it completely, because nobody (99%) wants to use it, and nobody wants to endure its limitations anymore (again, talking about 99% of the market) because the OS is completely unsuited for the current market paradigm....

    Does that sound stupid?
    Well, there may be a reason for it...

    New OS7 devices for the existing enterprise customers makes much more sense then trying to get them all to change to BB10.
    Ever heard of BYOD?
    You know a funny fact about that movement?
    You guessed correctly, one reason for it, was BBOS.
    Because employees didn't want a BlackBerry anymore.
    These employees are actually paying for their phones themselves, TO NOT USE A BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk and Omnitech like this.
    12-27-13 06:20 AM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    It's so boring to tell you every single time the same things.
    It's worse than a brick wall...

    BlackBerry's losses already begun under BBOS, while BB10 was not even being talked about.
    A BlackBerry with 1% marketshare and BBOS is as viable as a BlackBerry with a combined markertshare of 1.5%: not at all.
    There are Android manufacturers with more than 4% marketshare, still realising losses.
    Welcome to the reality of the current market.



    What does that mean?



    You totally understood everything...

    Let's revive a 10 year old platform that is as dead as it could be without axing it completely, because nobody (99%) wants to use it, and nobody wants to endure its limitations anymore (again, talking about 99% of the market) because the OS is completely unsuited for the current market paradigm....

    Does that sound stupid?
    Well, there may be a reason for it...



    Ever heard of BYOD?
    You know a funny fact about that movement?
    You guessed correctly, one reason for it, was BBOS.
    Because employees didn't want a BlackBerry anymore.
    These employees are actually paying for their phones themselves, TO NOT USE A BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    You bang on about the 99% but you don't have a clue who the core BB customer is. Suggesting BB should go after the 99% is simply insanity, they never stood a chance, BB10 or BBOS.

    Who is the core BB enterprise customer? The kind of enterprise that needs complete control on the employees communications, they provide the device, they pay the bill. This regulated market still exists but they are faced with eol BBOS devices and BES and a very uncertain future for BB10 and BES10 platform.

    BYOD does not sell handsets. BYOD is the reality for many companies sure, but there's not much profit in it for BB, especially when thy ommited support for their own BBOS platform that is in active use as we speak.

    Do you honestly think BB has a chance at the 99% slice of global market?

    Know your limitations, adapt accordingly.
    12-27-13 06:54 AM
  5. lnichols's Avatar
    We can crap on OS7 all day long but in the end OS7 is the only thing leaving the blackberry factories that still remotely sales.

    Many if you like to have these high specs, high power blackberrys but the problem is they are not selling, nobody wants them, pure and simple. And it was never the BlackBerry way anyway, they have always been waaaay behind on hardware specs.

    Trying to revive BBOS now is kind of crazy, but continuing on with BB10 is even crazier.


    New OS7 devices for the existing enterprise customers makes much more sense then trying to get them all to change to BB10.

    I don't know about you but if one of my suppliers discontinue one service I don't automatically use the service they replace it with, I'll look around at what other suppliers have to offer.
    Consumers haven't been embracing because of the weak ecosystem of apps, poor BlackBerry brand name (because of the poor perception caused by BBOS and it's deficiencies in today's smart phone market), and BlackBerry's inability to get an emerging market device out.

    Government has been slow to adopt because BES because it wasn't really ready for hard core enterprise and Government use until the May 2013 update, so that is when testing started. Germany has already embraced Bb10, and some US agencies will start rollouts soon. I see constant complaints on boards asking why they can't migrate from BlackBerry to iOS or Android because the users hate BBOS, the small screens, lack of apps, etc. They are viewed as old, antiquated, and not able to support anything beyond mail and voice.

    BlackBerry sticking with BBOS as long as they did has destroyed the name BlackBerry. People associate that name with BBOS, and most associate BBOS with negative views (slow, laggy, app-less). Sorry that is the reality of the current BBOS enterprise/contivity base. They all have Android or iOS for personal use, see it does everything the BBOS device does plus much more. They don't understand the security issues or care, they just know that what they are using is not a great experience by today's standards, and most users don't know BB10 exists or is different from BBOS.


    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and johnnyuk like this.
    12-27-13 07:32 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Consumers haven't been embracing because of the weak ecosystem of apps, poor BlackBerry brand name (because of the poor perception caused by BBOS and it's deficiencies in today's smart phone market), and BlackBerry's inability to get an emerging market device out.

    Government has been slow to adopt because BES because it wasn't really ready for hard core enterprise and Government use until the May 2013 update, so that is when testing started. Germany has already embraced Bb10, and some US agencies will start rollouts soon. I see constant complaints on boards asking why they can't migrate from BlackBerry to iOS or Android because the users hate BBOS, the small screens, lack of apps, etc. They are viewed as old, antiquated, and not able to support anything beyond mail and voice.

    BlackBerry sticking with BBOS as long as they did has destroyed the name BlackBerry. People associate that name with BBOS, and most associate BBOS with negative views (slow, laggy, app-less). Sorry that is the reality of the current BBOS enterprise/contivity base. They all have Android or iOS for personal use, see it does everything the BBOS device does plus much more. They don't understand the security issues or care, they just know that what they are using is not a great experience by today's standards, and most users don't know BB10 exists or is different from BBOS.


    Posted via CB10
    I'll ask you this, would BlackBerry still exist right now if they would've dropped BBOS?

    I categorically say no, it wouldn't.

    No matter what the deficiencies were, and there were plenty, it's BBOS that keeps BB alive as we speak.

    Like it or not BBOS is the core of BB users right now and there's still a small market for them, improvements would go a long way. There is no market for BB10


    Let's not stick our heads in the sand anymore?
    Bishkin likes this.
    12-27-13 07:58 AM
  7. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I'll ask you this, would BlackBerry still exist right now if they would've dropped BBOS?

    I categorically say no, it wouldn't.

    No matter what the deficiencies were, and there were plenty, it's BBOS that keeps BB alive as we speak.

    Like it or not BBOS is the core of BB users right now and there's still a small market for them, improvements would go a long way. There is no market for BB10
    With 1% marketshare... That core userbase....
    Actually...
    Is so irrelevant that it's not even worth talking about them.

    You also seem to struggle with basic logic.
    Ever heard of TVR, a car manufacturer?
    Cars kept them afloat (more or less) and cars doomed them as a manufacturer.
    It's absolutely no problem, that the product that made you big, is also the reason for your enterprise closing the doors.

    BBOS doesn't keep BlackBerry alive, in any meaningful way.
    With the losses BlackBerry realises every quarter, speaking about being alive, is a funny way to describe the things anyhow.
    Not to forget, that once again, BlackBerry already had losses under BBOS, when BB10 didn't even exist on the marketplace.

    Let's not stick our heads in the sand anymore?
    From the guy who said that BBOS is the future, that BlackBerry has to bring back BIS and other hilarious statements...
    At least you're funny.
    I am at a loss of words, when you give out the statement quoted.
    You do realise how unsuited you are, to make that claim, don't you?

    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech likes this.
    12-27-13 08:58 AM
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    With 1% marketshare... That core userbase....
    Actually...
    Is so irrelevant that it's not even worth talking about them.

    You also seem to struggle with basic logic.
    Ever heard of TVR, a car manufacturer?
    Cars kept the afloat (more or less) and cars doomed them as a manufacturer.
    It's absolutely no problem, that the product that made you big, is also the reason for your enterprise closing the doors.

    BBOS doesn't keep BlackBerry alive, in any meaningful way.
    With the losses BlackBerry realises every quarter, speaking about being alive, is a funny way to describe the things anyhow.
    Not to forget, that once again, BlackBerry already had losses under BBOS, when BB10 didn't even exist on the marketplace.

    Posted via CB10
    If it's so irrelevant then why even bother? Do you have a better solution? Should I remind you that things are panning out for BB10 exactly the way I predicted them? Why? Because I am one of the core BB users, it might not be many of us left but we know what we want from BB and it's not an iphone/android clone. I don't claim to know what the 99% want but I do know what the 1% want.

    By the way, a global 1% market share translates into much bigger market shares in certain regions, it's not 1% everywhere and you keep saying that is very misleading. BB doesn't have to have a presence in every country on the planet. They can concentrate in the ones they sell the most.

    If BBOS killed BB, BB10 dug it deep and poured concrete over it.


    PS, goes to show how much you know, before BB bought QNX and other companies they were making a profit, they had a couple of years without BB10 on the market but that doesn't mean they weren't pouring millions into the BB10 platform.

    Do you even take that into account? The platform would still be in profit if they would've dumped so much money on building the useless BB10 platform, money that came from BB7 sales.
    Bishkin and camilasmom like this.
    12-27-13 09:06 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Here's a few questions for people saying BBOS was loosing money: how much did BB pay for QNX and other companies? How much did they waste on the PlayBook disaster? How much did BB pay to build all the dev alphas and the following devices? How much did they spend to build the first BB10 devices?

    Add it all up and then tell me how much did that eat into BB7 profits? Do you still thing BB7 was making loses?
    12-27-13 09:40 AM
  10. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Many if you like to have these high specs, high power blackberrys but the problem is they are not selling, nobody wants them, pure and simple. And it was never the BlackBerry way anyway, they have always been waaaay behind on hardware specs.
    Nobody KNOWS about BB10 phones and there isn't a true low end model that can be sold for 99.99 UK Pounds on Pay As You Go for swarms of teenagers. Carriers are having to rely on the poor old/new confused 9720 for that phone.

    Those two facts aren't BB10's fault, they are squarely BlackBerry's fault. They had a gem in their hands 12 months ago and they let it slip through their fingers through incompetence.

    They should have chosen to take a financial hit this year and sell the BB10 phones at cost or a loss just to get them out there in people's hands, make them financially accessible. Give out the first hit dirt cheap then ramp up the price the following year like a drug dealer. But instead they had to placate revolting shareholders with a plan to make high margins on selling mid range hardware at premium prices. Ultimately through a combination of abysmal marketing and the tech savvy seeing through their thinly veiled plan it hit them harder financially than just getting phones out there at cost or less and then having a revenue stream from BlackBerry World and annual Enterprise CALs coming in.

    New OS7 devices for the existing enterprise customers makes much more sense then trying to get them all to change to BB10.
    Yes let's keep pumping out dinosaur phones for Enterprise on a 2 and a half year old tweak of a decade old antiquated mobile platform, that won't be death by a thousands cuts at all will it.

    Do you actually think that if BlackBerry stopped producing BB10 phones that the percentage of people who were buying them will instead buy legacy BBOS7 phones going forward? Are you nuts?

    What do you know of Enterprises and their mobile device requirements anyway? As the person in charge of delivering my Enterprise's mobile device strategy, as an organisation that delivers IT services to other organisations and companies and as the BESAdmin of a BES10 service I built myself with BBOS, BB10, iOS and Android devices on it that I hooked up I can tell you that in 2013 only the most cash strapped of customers are prepared to accept BBOS phones if they have a choice (which now that BB10 exists they do!).

    And of those cash strapped organisations they only resign themselves to accepting BBOS phones if they get them for free from a carrier of reseller on a dirt cheap 5 UK pounds a month no-extras BIS tariff where they end up on a BES Express 5 server, not even full BES, so no CAL revenue goes to BlackBerry.

    In my experience what Enterprise users WANT in 2013 is what 99% of smartphone customers buy in their personal lives: full touch large widescreen smartphones running modern mobile OS's be that Android, iOS or Windows Phone.

    Thanks to BlackBerry they don't know about BB10 until IT show it to them and then they are so impressed by its ability to access their work files and intranets in such a simple way that no other mobile platform can match that they WANT it.

    And what the vast majority want from a BB10 phone is full touch Z10s and Z30s. 96% of my users who went from physical Qwerty BBOS to BB10 phones back in May CHOSE Z10s over Q10s after trying both and everyone since has CHOSEN Z10s and Z30s over Q10s or Q5s. Coincidence? Don't make me laugh.

    When an organisation's regulatory security requirements demand that something more secure than Android, iOS or Windows Phones are used up steps BB10 and if delivers on both those security requirements AND the fact that if they can have a choice users do not want to be pecking away on physical keys and squinting at a tiny screen in 2013 or ever again!

    Where you think Enterprises are scrabbling around desperate to source dinosaur BBOS phones it is where either their IT departments move at a snail's pace so they haven't implemented BES10 yet or thanks to BlackBerry's awful lack of advertising and marketing their IT departments don't even know BB10 and BES10 even exist or that they are night and day different to BBOS.

    I see and hear this everyday within the IT industry, hardly anybody even knows that BlackBerry phones and BES went through a revolution this year, all they have heard is the company is bleeding to death on its death bed. When you tell them you rolled out all new full touch BlackBerry phones to an organisation this year they look at you quizzically and say "I had to use one of those Storms" or "I had to use one of those Torch phones" (not chose to use but HAD to use) as if that's what you've rolled out. They hear BlackBerry full touch and they think of the last 4 years of awful full touch BBOS phones.

    The areas where BBOS phones are outselling BB10 phones are in slow moving Enterprises (with sleepy IT departments), to those who travel internationally a lot who are clinging to BIS (not enough people to make it worth making phones specifically for), to the cash strapped teenage children of working class parents in the UK (lack of a BB10 phone cheap enough to sell to them) and to those in emerging markets around the world where data is atrociously expensive and BIS actually still has some relevance.

    And of those emerging markets as soon as their carrier's networks improve and data prices come down they move away from low cost BBOS phones to, with no low cost BB10 phone out there yet, low cost Android. We have seen that happen in South Africa over the last couple of years and in India recently. It happened the same way it happened in the western consumer world, once there was a choice of something "better", i.e. full touch and more apps, for the same price BBOS was dropped like a stone. What's been hurting BB10 all year is no low cost BB10 phone to move from BBOS to.

    I don't know about you but if one of my suppliers discontinue one service I don't automatically use the service they replace it with, I'll look around at what other suppliers have to offer.
    I haven't and the organisations I deliver a service to haven't automatically chosen anything. I and they compared BB10 against what iOS, Android and Windows phone could deliver for their work requirements and CHOSE BB10.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 12-27-13 at 01:38 PM.
    12-27-13 10:20 AM
  11. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I'll ask you this, would BlackBerry still exist right now if they would've dropped BBOS?

    I categorically say no, it wouldn't.

    No matter what the deficiencies were, and there were plenty, it's BBOS that keeps BB alive as we speak.
    Part of the problem for BB10 has been having BBOS still in the low end BlackBerry range lumbering along taking sales away even from heavily discounted Z10s. But to BlackBerry right now it doesn't matter, there are bigger priorities, such as making a profit on ANY sale be it BBOS or BB10. Once they can start balancing the books then they can sort out BB10 sales and ramp up the extinction of the dinosaur phones.

    Like it or not BBOS is the core of BB users right now and there's still a small market for them, improvements would go a long way.
    The core of 1% isn't worth urinating on if it were on fire.

    We've already been through why it's now a technology dead end, it has nowhere else to go without breaking compatibility with the previous decade's worth of software. Hence BB10.

    There is no market for BB10
    What have you got in your hand right now? A Q10. I rest my case.

    Let's not stick our heads in the sand anymore?
    O....M.....G.... the irony.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-27-13 10:42 AM
  12. bobauckland's Avatar
    @johnnyuk I haven't been near a comp so can't check but I may have got you mixed up with dave given some of your posts, sometimes it gets confusing when lots of people say similar things.

    @omni actually I'm not going to be the last person standing with bbos, I ditched bbos and moved to android when I realised I needed a better camera to capture memories than the 9900 was offering me.

    I did however really look forward to bb10 mixing the best of legacy bbos with the best of apple/android. That hasn't happened. It's like a knock off android Os with almost nothing from legacy in it.

    @belfast you're wasting your time, it's pretty clear that this is a game of opinions. What if BlackBerry hadn't gone all in on bb10? What if they hadn't announced it before introing bb7? What if legacy was offered on better hardware for example better cameras?
    The problem is some people are so fixed on their opinions they can't accept that things may have panned out different ways than any of us may have predicted. Personally I think legacy offered a lot of advantages bb10 doesn't.
    I can't see who bb10 is aimed at.
    Personally I think the money would have been better spent offering an upgraded bis and cross platform BBM on BlackBerry made android devices. App ecosystem solved with BlackBerry underpinning.
    Making their own Os then pricing it at preium prices,Not offering any significant draws and throwing away money leads to what's happened. A complete flop that is bb10. Bbos maay have been past its time. It had a time. Bb10 was doa given BlackBerry could never compete with the other oses, they just didn't have the resources.

    Posted via CB10
    12-27-13 10:53 AM
  13. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Ever heard of BYOD?
    You know a funny fact about that movement?
    You guessed correctly, one reason for it, was BBOS.
    Because employees didn't want a BlackBerry anymore.
    These employees are actually paying for their phones themselves, TO NOT USE A BlackBerry.
    Posted via CB10
    This is a very good point and well made.

    The BYOD movement has been perpetuated by non-BlackBerry phone and OS manufacturers as a way to sell phones to people who otherwise wouldn't have bought them because their employer previously FORCED them to use a work provided BBOS phone that they didn't like and didn't really want to have to use.

    It has been a very canny way of making people think that they have been empowered to make their own choice, when it fact they've played in to the hands of the likes of Samsung and Apple. But regardless of that it's still been very bad news for BlackBerry and typically they didn't react to the Enterprise market shift towards BYOD quickly enough.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    12-27-13 10:54 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar


    What have you got in your hand right now? A Q10. I rest my case.



    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Iphone 5 actually, no other alternative. Couldn't go back to bb7 and I can't trust the Q10 anymore.

    So there you have it, one of the biggest BB fans now on iphone.

    Don't rest your case just yet.
    12-27-13 11:39 AM
  15. lnichols's Avatar
    I'll ask you this, would BlackBerry still exist right now if they would've dropped BBOS?

    I categorically say no, it wouldn't.

    No matter what the deficiencies were, and there were plenty, it's BBOS that keeps BB alive as we speak.

    Like it or not BBOS is the core of BB users right now and there's still a small market for them, improvements would go a long way. There is no market for BB10


    Let's not stick our heads in the sand anymore?
    There is an enterprise market for BB10, but BlackBerry has botched the entire rollout. Government ready BES10 was late, BB10 was late. From a hard core Enterprise and Government view, BES10 has only been available for 7 months. Many have been testing or implementing other solutions because they want to give the users something other than BBOS.

    Like or not, this core BlackBerry end user base you seem to think loves BBOS, not the company buying them, hate BBOS and the name BlackBerry because of the lame smartphone experience it provides. What has kept BlackBerry alive is also giving them a black eye and a bad name every time some end user picks up the locked down work BBOS device and then goes to the internal complaint forums for the company/government and ask why they can't get a modern smartphone to get work done.

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk and Davidro1 like this.
    12-27-13 11:55 AM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    There is an enterprise market for BB10, but BlackBerry has botched the entire rollout. Government ready BES10 was late, BB10 was late. From a hard core Enterprise and Government view, BES10 has only been available for 7 months. Many have been testing or implementing other solutions because they want to give the users something other than BBOS.

    Like or not, this core BlackBerry end user base you seem to think loves BBOS, not the company buying them, hate BBOS and the name BlackBerry because of the lame smartphone experience it provides. What has kept BlackBerry alive is also giving them a black eye and a bad name every time some end user picks up the locked down work BBOS device and then goes to the internal complaint forums for the company/government and ask why they can't get a modern smartphone to get work done.

    Posted via CB10
    The enterprise end user is the company, it doesn't matter what the employees actually want.

    If all that's expected from the employee is communications is there anything that BB10 can do better then BBOS in terms of BES communications and security?
    12-27-13 12:38 PM
  17. lnichols's Avatar
    The enterprise end user is the company, it doesn't matter what the employees actually want.

    If all that's expected from the employee is communications is there anything that BB10 can do better then BBOS in terms of BES communications and security?
    See it does matter. BlackBerry grew originally in the consumer space because people liked the what BBOS did long ago, and bought them for themselves for personal phones, then family members and friends, etc. Now that relatively same experience is what keeps people from buying them for personal. Also how many of those companies are now switching because the end users and the CEO are yelling that they want something other than a BlackBerry? BlackBerry ignored the true end user and have paid dearly for it.

    Also communications isn't all that is expected anymore from a device. It is no longer the early to mid 2000's and people expect that a $500+ mobile device to be able to do communications, Web browsing, apps for efficient data input/retrieval, and more. Other devices, and BB10, communicate just fine and do many other things.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    12-27-13 01:02 PM
  18. johnnyuk's Avatar
    You bang on about the 99% but you don't have a clue who the core BB customer is. Suggesting BB should go after the 99% is simply insanity, they never stood a chance, BB10 or BBOS.
    They don't have go after the other 99% and they haven't. They simply have to be more like the other 99% in order to avoid becoming an anachronism. All BlackBerry have to do is balance the books and start making a profit again. They don't have to chase Microsoft for 3rd place let alone Apple and Samsung.

    To illustrate this Apple isn't the market leader in smartphones and they now have less than half the tablet market globally, in the UK specifically it has dropped to 38% :

    http://www.gantdaily.com/2013/12/26/...dipping-in-uk/

    However Apple make by far the most profit from both the smartphone and tablet market compared to any other manufacturer, through their ecosystem of software and services, and that's what matters.


    Who is the core BB enterprise customer? The kind of enterprise that needs complete control on the employees communications, they provide the device, they pay the bill. This regulated market still exists but they are faced with eol BBOS devices and BES and a very uncertain future for BB10 and BES10 platform.
    The uncertain future is the same whether you force your users to stick with dinosaur BBOS phones or bring them in to the modern world with BB10. So what's your point? BlackBerry has an uncertain future? Well that's news isn't it.


    BYOD does not sell handsets.
    What?! It's Bring Your Own Device not Steal Your Own Device! If you actually did this for a living like I do you would know that the majority of people offered BYOD DO go and buy a device specifically for it, or they upgrade what they've current got because what they currently have is ok for their personal needs but isn't up to the job of doing work on too.


    BYOD is the reality for many companies sure, but there's not much profit in it for BB,
    There's 13 UK pounds a year per device from BYOD for BlackBerry that they would never have got before. Their mission is to get people on the BES10 train.

    One thing that I know is limiting BB10's appeal in workplaces is that for a few years now many have already been running BES5 and A.N.Other cross platform MDM solution for Android and iOS. They are reluctant to keep 2 MDM solutions running indefinitely and are seeing the inevitable death of legacy BBOS and BES5/Express as a convenient time to ditch BlackBerry completely so they can focus the one MDM solution that is already taking its place.

    What BlackBerry should do is open up the BB10 APIs to other MDM vendors to increase BB10 adoption as currently the only way to manage BB10 phones is by deploying (or hiring hosted) BES10. Deployments of live BES10 environments aren't happening quickly enough hurting BB10 Enterprise adoption.


    especially when thy ommited support for their own BBOS platform that is in active use as we speak.
    I've told you already you are wrong to say that BlackBerry omitted support for BBOS from BES10. You just either keep the BES5/Express server installation you already had or you install it as well as BES10, alongside it on the same server if you want to.

    Then you can configure BlackBerry Management Studio to be able to manage your BBOS phones through its console in exactly the same way you manage BB10, Android and iOS and also from there open up the full BES5 Administration Console exactly like how you can open up the full BDS and UDS Administration Consoles.

    How is that "unsupported"??? It's only because you've never seen it and done it that you assume it's not true but that's you in a nutshell.

    Do you honestly think BB has a chance at the 99% slice of global market?

    Know your limitations, adapt accordingly
    As above, profit is all that matters now. Anything that they can scrape back out of that 99% phone market share will help, if they can do it without losing money, but ultimately staying profitable is the key and that can come from services and software, it doesn't have to be from the phones.

    If they can balance the scales correctly then that's the new BlackBerry, your problem with all of this is you're stuck with a 2009 "World View" of the mobile space.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-27-13 01:09 PM
  19. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Here's a few questions for people saying BBOS was loosing money
    Not money, MARKETSHARE!!!

    BlackBerry reported their last profitable quarter only 9 months ago but their market share collapsed between 2010 and 2012.

    What phones could you buy between 2010 and 2012 from BlackBerry? Android? BB10? Oh no wait, it was magic marvellous BBOS.

    I don't know how you think a company can migrate from one technology platform to another, which HAD to happen to escape the tech dead end of BBOS despite your best efforts at filling your ears with sand, without investing a lot of money in the process of getting there.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-27-13 01:33 PM
  20. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Iphone 5 actually, no other alternative. Couldn't go back to bb7 and I can't trust the Q10 anymore.

    So there you have it, one of the biggest BB fans now on iphone.

    Don't rest your case just yet.
    Can't trust the Q10? But you trust Apple? Did you read the TOS? And you trust them?

    Personally I don't like the Q10, not because of any trust issues but because of a combination of the physical keyboard feeling antiquated to me now after the Z10's stunner of a virtual keyboard and the small 4:3 screen which just doesn't feel right for BB10.

    BB10 comes alive in widescreen. My Z30 can't arrive quickly enough!


    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-27-13 01:48 PM
  21. darkehawke's Avatar
    Can't trust the Q10? But you trust Apple? Did you read the TOS? And you trust them?

    Personally I don't like the Q10, not because of any trust issues but because of a combination of the physical keyboard feeling antiquated to me now after the Z10's stunner of a virtual keyboard and the small 4:3 screen which just doesn't feel right for BB10.

    BB10 comes alive in widescreen. My Z30 can't arrive quickly enough!


    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    I think you missed the point of his post in regards to trust.
    And I have to say about the comment about 7.1 devices taking away sales from the discounted z10. If you believe that truly is the case then something is wrong. The z10 at discount did not fail because of 7.1 devices. It failed because BlackBerry priced it too high and did not lower the price until it was too late. That is all. Who would want to buy a device with the image of a failure
    BlackBerry completely mismanaged the z10 and the failure is down to that and that alone

    Posted via CB10
    12-27-13 01:55 PM
  22. johnnyuk's Avatar
    If all that's expected from the employee is communications is there anything that BB10 can do better then BBOS in terms of BES communications and security?
    BB10 can support syncing multiple ActiveSync accounts at once, meaning not just your own work mailbox but any number of shared work mailboxes too. That's something BBOS can't do that iOS and Android can and it has been gnawing away at the usefulness of BBOS in the workplace for years.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 12-27-13 at 02:08 PM.
    Omnitech likes this.
    12-27-13 01:56 PM
  23. moralesed's Avatar
    The only reason is the lack of apps, noting else.
    12-27-13 02:00 PM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Can't trust the Q10? But you trust Apple? Did you read the TOS? And you trust them?

    Personally I don't like the Q10, not because of any trust issues but because of a combination of the physical keyboard feeling antiquated to me now after the Z10's stunner of a virtual keyboard and the small 4:3 screen which just doesn't feel right for BB10.

    BB10 comes alive in widescreen. My Z30 can't arrive quickly enough!


    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    My Q10 deleted all my SMS and 3 months of work emails, received and sent, all gone down a black hole.
    12-27-13 02:00 PM
  25. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I think you missed the point of his post in regards to trust.
    And I have to say about the comment about 7.1 devices taking away sales from the discounted z10. If you believe that truly is the case then something is wrong. The z10 at discount did not fail because of 7.1 devices. It failed because BlackBerry priced it too high and did not lower the price until it was too late. That is all. Who would want to buy a device with the image of a failure
    BlackBerry completely mismanaged the z10 and the failure is down to that and that alone

    Posted via CB10
    Barely anybody has ever heard of the Z10 let alone BB10 as a mobile platform to choose from.

    This Christmas when Miss Single Mum with 3 teenage and tweenage kids in the UK went online looking for new cheap as chips BlackBerry phones for her 3 little terrors, was the cheapest BlackBerry a BB10 phone like the discounted Z10 or the proposed but too late Jakarta phone?

    No, it was either a 9320 or a 9720 so that's what she bought them. Full time score after Xmas, BBOS7 1:0 BB10

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-27-13 02:05 PM
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