02-08-14 01:31 AM
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  1. ssbtech's Avatar
    1. Still lousy web browser. This is not an entertainment thing for me, a web browser is part of my I.T. work, if it's garbage, I can't do work from a smartphone. (The latency added by BIS was a major factor here, which is why it came as no surprise to me that BIS was dropped in BB10. If not, the web browser performance would have remained a laughingstock of the industry)
    You and many others seem to believe that web browsing would had to have been tied to laggy BIS compression in future phones. I see no reason why there couldn't be an option to use BIS for web compression or not. User choice.

    IMO, it would be a simple option in the browser settings: "Route web traffic through BIS" "Yes/No"

    Just because BIS compression was forced on you in the past does not mean it would have to be in the future.

    It's your opinion that BIS email was inferior to other forms of email. It's my opinion that, for certain users and usage scenarios, you're wrong.
    Davidro1 and bobauckland like this.
    12-25-13 02:49 PM
  2. srzjumper's Avatar
    Ok, is that why Iphones sell so much more?
    Well you're partially right. They don't however sell more than cheaper Androids, outnumbered 2:1.

    Posted via CB10
    12-25-13 03:08 PM
  3. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Not really, apps could download a lot of the needed files to the memory card.
    Can you point out some games that show this off to any great degree? Something like Mass Effect or Asphalt 7 or Red Racing 3 or Bards Tale... games a 1gb in size?

    Posted via CB10
    12-25-13 04:01 PM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Can you point out some games that show this off to any great degree? Something like Mass Effect or Asphalt 7 or Red Racing 3 or Bards Tale... games a 1gb in size?

    Posted via CB10
    The first game that I saw this in action was the Rollecoster 3d game, after it got installed it started downloading additional files to the memory card, and I remember it taking a while to finish downloading

    I did have need for speed but I can't remember if it acted the same.
    12-25-13 04:05 PM
  5. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Wait what? You haven't owned a OS7 device? Then sorry my friend, you don't know what you're talking about, many things were improved including a simultaneous direct carrier connection and BIS, improved BIS attachment limits to the point I very rarely saw a truncated email, NFC, wifi hotspot, not all os7 devices had the fixed focus camera, only the 9900 did.

    Gaming was much improved too, playing need for speed without a glitch.
    Wikitude was also pretty cool in action.
    He had an OS6 phone so he'd seen enough. OS7 was originally going to be OS6.1 until RIM decided to switch to Snapdragon processors and had to port the OS to that family of chips for the new generation of phones which took them f..o..r..e..v..e..r because they were also trying to get the PlayBook finished. RIM's snail-like development speed between 2009 and 2012 meant they kept delivering underwhelming products that were late and had the knock on effect of delaying the next product.

    I still maintain the time to switch the phones to the new QNX based platform was early 2011, when PlayBook splatted on to the scene. Stupidly RIM did everything the wrong way around and instead released the tablet first with no pre-built up app ecosystem to make it an attractive proposition (in addition to a few other flaws at launch). Like every other mobile OS pusher it should have been the phones first that don't rely entirely on an app ecosystem to be useful, let the ecosystem build up, THEN make the tablets that purely rely on that ecosystem. Doh.

    This is what makes me think there was still much room for improvement on the Legacy platform.
    We've had this discussion before but it's because you don't understand the technical intricacies of Operating System kernels that you still think there was room for improvement in BBOS.

    It was pushed to its limit. The biggest two problems were the app memory limitation and the lack of protected memory for tasks (one hung or bombed out task takes down the whole OS).

    To fix those you would have to fundamentally redesign the OS kernel, you couldn't retrofit a sticky plaster for those two. Once you change the design of the kernel the software written for the previous design no longer works. It would mean starting from scratch with an empty BlackBerry World all over again. Once you're in that situation you may as well start from a clean slate and use something off the shelf instead of proprietary that developers can hit the ground running with and is better than what you had in all areas; enter QNX.

    QNX is fine for a mobile OS kernel. All of the things you see as problems in BB10 are the things BlackBerry have coded to run on QNX. They haven't done everything right, there is one big glaring design flaw in that they haven't implemented a virtual memory or hybrid app suspension system meaning devices need more RAM than their competitors to do similar things.

    Hence the 2GB RAM minimum for BB10 devices meaning no low end BB10 phone for over a year after the launch of the Z10 (if the Jakarta phone ever materialises) and no BB10 for PlayBook. Oops.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 12-25-13 at 09:03 PM.
    Davidro1 and Bbnivende like this.
    12-25-13 05:12 PM
  6. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Maybe because all The Touchscreen boosters declared the keyboard, home row and trackpad dead before its time. Are the OS7 devices really that much cheaper than the Z10 at this time?

    A lot of BB users needed reliable devices and not the flash of a new OS. Maybe also for the same reason people don't abandon Apple or Android, they don't abandon "traditional" BB devices - investments in apps and in learning. BB10 is competing not only with the two A's but the double BB's.
    Don't forget, the W (double-u) phones are number 3, and selling well in Europe and elsewhere.

    My name is Prem, I'm using BBM ... from my QuZe10 ...whatarhyme...
    goku_vegeta likes this.
    12-25-13 05:12 PM
  7. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I wonder if Dan Dodge should share some blame on this, surely it was him that told Lazaridis that QNX could perform the miracles they clearly thought it could but clearly it can't.
    See my comment above. It's clear you don't understand the part that QNX plays in BB10. That's not your fault, it's very technical. But what you see as the failings of BB10 are the things BlackBerry wrote to run on QNX not inherent problems of QNX itself.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-25-13 05:15 PM
  8. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    And which one would you propose that to be?

    iOS? (impossible)
    Android? (corporate suicide)
    WP8? (more corporate suicide)
    Symbian? (laughing here)
    Tizen? (don't even go there)
    FirefoxOS? (Doesn't even have basic functionality yet)

    Hmm??
    Only half kidding:
    Ubuntu phone, hahaha, no licence cost. My wife is a Linux nut, and I nuked a Nexus 4 and put Ubuntu developer version on for her. She loves it. Not feature complete yet, but full access to the Debian/Ubuntu package system via apt-get is a geek's wet dream come true for her.
    Dual-boot with Android is in the making, as well as pluggable desktop version, so Android in the pocket, Full Ubuntu desktop when plugged in to USB/HDMI. Mutual file access is a given.

    My name is Prem, I'm using BBM ... from my QuZe10 ...whatarhyme...
    12-25-13 05:23 PM
  9. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Only half kidding:
    Ubuntu phone, hahaha, no licence cost. My wife is a Linux nut, and I nuked a Nexus 4 and put Ubuntu developer version on for her. She loves it. Not feature complete yet, but full access to the Debian/Ubuntu package system via apt-get is a geek's wet dream come true for her.
    Dual-boot with Android is in the making, as well as pluggable desktop version, so Android in the pocket, Full Ubuntu desktop when plugged in to USB/HDMI. Mutual file access is a given.

    My name is Prem, I'm using BBM ... from my QuZe10 ...whatarhyme...
    Now that is mobile computing. Oh dear BlackBerry, oh dear oh dear.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-25-13 05:47 PM
  10. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Ridiculous coverage, mate, even Australia seems better. Vodafone is garbage here, Optus ok, Telstra pretty good. Surprised sometimes where I get 3G. Out in the bush...

    3G 850Mhz has a longer range, and when they introduced it, a lot of 2G areas got overshadowed and subsequently became obsolete for 3G handset users...

    My name is Prem, I'm using BBM ... from my QuZe10 ...whatarhyme...
    12-25-13 07:59 PM
  11. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Ridiculous coverage, mate, even Australia seems better. Vodafone is garbage here, Optus ok, Telstra pretty good. Surprised sometimes where I get 3G. Out in the bush...

    3G 850Mhz has a longer range, and when they introduced it, a lot of 2G areas got overshadowed and subsequently became obsolete for 3G handset users...

    My name is Prem, I'm using BBM ... from my QuZe10 ...whatarhyme...
    Sorry, was referring to belfast's first map, without tapping "reply with quote"

    My name is Prem, I'm using BBM ... from my QuZe10 ...whatarhyme...
    12-25-13 08:02 PM
  12. Speedygi's Avatar
    However, I realized that Android phones and iPhones sell so much more than all of these BlackBerry phones these day, and seriously it is a depressing scenario to be in...
    12-26-13 09:18 AM
  13. Bomolico's Avatar
    I've switched to bb10 and then back to my 9900.

    I use my phone for work - email, tasks, calendar. I have so many projects and tasks and I use the phone as an organizing aid.
    For this - there is nothing to match OS7. The amount of finger movement you have to do to make things happen with the bold is 10% of what you have to do with your fingers on the touchscreen of the Z10. This is due to the genius piece of hardware called track-pad. Multi tasking is easier too using the BB menu button.
    Blackberry used to be the device for the professional. Its all about productivity. Not about unnecessary and time consuming apps. When blackberry moved to BB10, It actually changed its target market from the professional user to the media/apps/waste of time user. However, in this new market I dont think they have an advantage over iOS or Android.
    bobauckland, 2c and Davidro1 like this.
    12-26-13 09:20 AM
  14. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    I've switched to bb10 and then back to my 9900.

    I use my phone for work - email, tasks, calendar. I have so many projects and tasks and I use the phone as an organizing aid.
    For this - there is nothing to match OS7. The amount of finger movement you have to do to make things happen with the bold is 10% of what you have to do with your fingers on the touchscreen of the Z10. This is due to the genius piece of hardware called track-pad. Multi tasking is easier too using the BB menu button.
    Blackberry used to be the device for the professional. Its all about productivity. Not about unnecessary and time consuming apps. When blackberry moved to BB10, It actually changed its target market from the professional user to the media/apps/waste of time user. However, in this new market I dont think they have an advantage over iOS or Android.
    Well, I would say they tried and failed to change to something that would appeal to professionals who are high end mobile computing users who now use iOS and Android.
    12-26-13 09:47 AM
  15. wesker's Avatar
    Combination of cheap hardware and cheap data plan.

    That's a big deal in developing countries where RIM is selling well.
    12-26-13 11:31 AM
  16. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    The first game that I saw this in action was the Rollecoster 3d game, after it got installed it started downloading additional files to the memory card, and I remember it taking a while to finish downloading
    Still seemed quite behind the big BB10 apps in terms of sophistication to me.

    Posted via CB10
    12-26-13 04:56 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Still seemed quite behind the big BB10 apps in terms of sophistication to me.

    Posted via CB10
    True but how would BB10 perform on OS7 hardware? Exactly!

    And how would OS7 perform on BB10 hardware? I guess we'll never know.
    12-26-13 05:26 PM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    True but how would BB10 perform on OS7 hardware? Exactly!

    And how would OS7 perform on BB10 hardware? I guess we'll never know.
    Zzzzzz.
    *yawn*

    Will never happen.
    Might not even work.

    Posted via CB10
    12-26-13 05:42 PM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Zzzzzz.
    *yawn*

    Will never happen.
    Might not even work.

    Posted via CB10
    Hence why I said "we'll never know"
    12-26-13 05:51 PM
  20. johnnyuk's Avatar
    True but how would BB10 perform on OS7 hardware? Exactly!

    And how would OS7 perform on BB10 hardware? I guess we'll never know.
    OS7 would be just as ghastly and actually very wasteful on BB10 hardware as it is incapable of making use of multiple CPU cores (another big reason why it had come to the end of its useful life). Again change that and you break all previous software.

    A more apt comparison would be how does a competitor's phone from the same year run 3D games. Say a Bold 9930 vs a Galaxy S2 vs an iPhone 4S, all roughly equal on hardware specs give or take a core. I think you'll find that the peers of BBOS phones absolutely blow them away for 3D game performance and that inadequacy can be laid squarely at the feet of BBOS not the hardware.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-26-13 06:03 PM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    OS7 would be just as ghastly and actually very wasteful on BB10 hardware as it is incapable of making use of multiple CPU cores (another big reason why it had come to the end of its useful life). Again change that and you break all previous software.

    A more apt comparison would be how does a competitor's phone from the same year run 3D games. Say a Bold 9930 vs a Galaxy S2 vs an iPhone 4S, all roughly equal on hardware specs give or take a core. I think you'll find that the peers of BBOS phones absolutely blow them away for 3D game performance and that inadequacy can be laid squarely at the feet of BBOS not the hardware.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    In that case stick BB10 on S2 or iPhone 4S hardware and tell me how would it perform? Not that great me thinks.

    It's too late for BBOS now anyway, the employees are all fired and too long has passed without any real effort put into it.
    12-26-13 06:14 PM
  22. johnnyuk's Avatar
    In that case stick BB10 on S2 or iPhone 4S hardware and tell me how would it perform? Not that great me thinks.

    It's too late for BBOS now anyway, the employees are all fired and too long has passed without any real effort put into it.
    What exactly are you trying to prove by saying try running BB10 on 2011 hardware?!? That a mobile OS from 2013 needs 2012/13 hardware specs? Well no sh1t Sherlock! Have you seen how poorly iOS7 runs on an iPhone 4? It's no great surprise.

    If BlackBerry had done what I think they should have and released a QNX based next generation phone OS and hardware line in 2011 then it would have had to run well on specs like a 1.2ghz processor, maybe even single core, and 1GB of RAM. It may have had to have been more limited in features compared to the BB10 we know, such as no Hub, or perhaps not if they'd implemented virtual memory or an iOS style hybrid.

    The problem with BBOS was that it got too much focus at BlackBerry for too long. OS7 and that generation of phones should never have seen the light of day. The underwhelming OS6 should have been where it ended and where QNX should have taken over.

    BlackBerry's collapse in to its near death spiral happened when BBOS phones were the only phones you could buy.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2
    12-26-13 06:35 PM
  23. sigint99's Avatar
    OS7 still does many things better and more efficiently than BB10. Why change if BBOS still delivers ?
    12-26-13 09:51 PM
  24. Matthew Hicks1's Avatar
    A lot of the industry is not ready to update both their company handsets and enterprise servers.

    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk
    johnnyuk likes this.
    12-26-13 10:21 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    OS7 still does many things better and more efficiently than BB10. Why change if BBOS still delivers ?
    Because the market is embracing other OS devices and many companies and Government are testing those devices for use because BBOS doesn't deliver everything needed today!

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX, johnnyuk and web99 like this.
    12-27-13 05:36 AM
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