[SEAWARRIOR]

Um - I disagree bigtime.

- BlackBerry OS (for me) crashed and froze constantly. BlackBerry 10 had some random reboots with 10.1, but it wasn't anywhere near the same degree and that pretty much vanished with 10.2 for me.
sounds like you had a much better time pre-10.2 than most,,, we all remember how that went w/ reagrds to the reboots...

- As a touch-screen experience, there is no comparison between the Storm and Torch 9860 and the Z10, IMO. Z10 is clearly designed as a touchscreen device, not some unholy union of a tap-and-click OS grafted on a touch-screen. It's generally much, much more responsive, especially with a lot of apps. My Z10 is almost full and running quickly whereas my 9900 would have been choking by now.
heh,,, storm can't even be mentioned here, imo,,, people seem to have more trouble w/ the 9860 vs. the 9850 it seems,,, dunno if it's 'cuz it's GSM,,, i don't recall seeing this many, or these types if issues w/ the "50",,, i'm not blindly saying "mine is best", just an observation,,, there are some cool ui & browser improvements in "10", but customization, features, & notification is where os7.xx rules...

- The browser pretty much shatters all those "BlackBerrys can't surf the web" views. It renders faster, it supports multiple standards and is a much nicer experience.
agreed...

- The whole app install experience is much nicer. The device doesn't slow to a crawl when installing apps. It doesn't reboot every time it installs an app (waiting 10 minutes).
agreed x2...

- The apps themselves are much more sophisticated. The native controls are nicer. The support for effects is nicer. There's no 8 mb size limit so now you get the same types of games and apps that the big boys have.
agreed x3...

- A lot of the software on the device is better, IMO. The camera software is nicer, the video software is nicer, BBM is more personable and easier to navigate. The settings are amalgamated nicely in one clean spot. The search is easier for me too.
agreed x4...

I find the device as a whole much more pleasant to use.

if they'd only merge these things that we've discussed, i'd be right there w/ ya,,, & if the Z50 doesn't go wild, i may settle for the "30", IF they complete the bridge update,,, otherwise i'll be buying 9850's 'til they're gone,,, i don't think anyone can't disagree that the bridge needs to be finished for BB10 devices...

[SEAWARRIOR]

I could not agree more with the downsides of the BBOS that you listed down.

Just curious on the memory leaks. Why Blackberry did not simply produce upgraded BBOS device with very large RAM to solve this problem to bridge the transition period before BB10 was launched [to maintain BBOS fans for a little while]? Is it so complicated? To me the most annoying thing is the fact that the RAM that is so tiny. I still can bear the slow browsing/ lack of flash issue.

dunno about other devices, but the 9850 has roughly 765MB of RAM, 3/4 of a gig,,, not great but not bad either,,, when it came out 2+ yrs ago, most phones were running 512MB, w/ some breaking into the 1GB arena...

[johnnyuk]

that's aaalllooot of apps,,, how many do you have??? i have 200+/- MB of app storage available,,, you say you're using the minimum apps you need, but sounds to me like you're "over-apped",,, w/ that many, i can guarantee the memory leak is caused by a crappy app,,, & if you're running out of ram, something is definately wrong,,, even if i don't do a reboot for a week, i rarely get below 190MB RAM...

My god you must barely use your phone for anything "smart" beyond email and BBM!

I have 14 apps that I use frequently enough to need them on my Torch 9860 as it's a workhorse for me:

Reboot Device (for those daily reboots)
Shazam (I'm a part time DJ)
Digitally Imported (ditto)
Rotation Lock (because BBOS lacks it)
WhatsApp (because BBM took too long to go cross platform)
Back Flashlight (lacking in BBOS)
HSBC (banking)
CrackBerry (as a BESAdmin it's a must)
BlackBerry OS Mobile App (ditto)
BlackBerry Bridge (PlayBook rules!)
Photo Editor Ultimate Free (i need to edit photos on the move often)
Virgin Train Tickets (I travel a lot)
Capture It (Bla1ze made this!)
Google Maps (no explanation needed)

14 is in NO way a lot of apps. I can't believe you'd think that. It's nearly 2014 my friend.

BBOS performs so poorly with apps that it locks you in to the mindset of 2009 when anything more than 3 downloads from BlackBerry App World seemed unthinkable.

On my Z10 I have 116 apps, 22 games and a few sideloads installed and the thing still flies along no problems. It's the way a modern smartphone should be, and everything that BBOS isn't.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[SEAWARRIOR]

My god you must barely use your phone for anything "smart" beyond email and BBM!

I have 14 apps that I use frequently enough to need them on my Torch 9860 as it's a workhorse for me:

Reboot Device (for those daily reboots)
Shazam (I'm a part time DJ)
Digitally Imported (ditto)
Rotation Lock (because BBOS lacks it)
WhatsApp (because BBM took too long to go cross platform)
Back Flashlight (lacking in BBOS)
HSBC (banking)
CrackBerry (as a BESAdmin it's a must)
BlackBerry OS Mobile App (ditto)
BlackBerry Bridge (PlayBook rules!) YOU BETCHA!!!
Photo Editor Ultimate Free (i need to edit photos on the move often)
Virgin Train Tickets (I travel a lot)
Capture It (Bla1ze made this!)
Google Maps (no explanation needed)

14 is in NO way a lot of apps. I can't believe you'd think that. It's nearly 2014 my friend.

BBOS performs so poorly with apps that it locks you in to the mindset of 2009 when anything more than 3 downloads from BlackBerry App World seemed unthinkable.

On my Z10 I have 116 apps, 22 games and a few sideloads installed and the thing still flies along no problems. It's the way a modern smartphone should be, and everything that BBOS isn't.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

i didn't say 14 was a lot,,, i didn't know how many you had,,, if you *only* have 14, & have only 70 MB left, something is waaay wrong,,, you must have some big games or something taking up all that space,,, i definately think it's the kind & quality of the apps you download, & whether or not they need to be connected all the time or not, (weather apps, etc.),,, & for the record, i use my phone for just about everything,,, my coverage & service are awesome, & so it's my pocket pc when not packing my playbook, (bridged, of course),,, also, i used to have the leak issue, but it was resolved when i updated the os to .861 & there was a particular app, ( dunno which it was), that i deleted, thru trial & error that was part of the problem,,, which os are you on,,, maybe check the 9850/9860 forum for the latest, (.1033 for the 9860)...

[axllebeer]

I'm going to agree with something is wrong here. You should have more memory than that available. After 2 yrs with the 9930 I had way more apps than 14 and about twice the memory available that you do.

Posted Via CB10 using the power of "Q"

[belfastdispatcher]

14 is in NO way a lot of apps. I can't believe you'd think that. It's nearly 2014 my friend.


Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

However, that is a 2011 phone, 2010 really since they were long delayed to start with.

Pick up a 2010 Android and put it next to an S4.


Posted via CB10

[SEAWARRIOR]

I'm going to agree with something is wrong here. You should have more memory than that available. After 2 yrs with the 9930 I had way more apps than 14 and about twice the memory available that you do.

Posted Via CB10 using the power of "Q"

yeah, everything he said leads me to believe something is outta wack in the app dept...

[RubberChicken76]

sounds like you had a much better time pre-10.2 than most,,, we all remember how that went w/ reagrds to the reboots...

Oh, I definitely had the issue for a stretch with 10.1 - but fortunately Telus updated it quickly and I haven't seen it much since. Sadly though, even with the random reboot, it was still more reliable than my 9900. I literally had to pull the battery daily for that. :-(

heh,,, storm can't even be mentioned here, imo,,, people seem to have more trouble w/ the 9860 vs. the 9850 it seems,,, dunno if it's 'cuz it's GSM,,, i don't recall seeing this many, or these types if issues w/ the "50",,, i'm not blindly saying "mine is best", just an observation,,, there are some cool ui & browser improvements in "10", but customization, features, & notification is where os7.xx rules...

I could see both sides of this argument. On one hand, if you like customizations, this is inflexible. On the other, too much customizability makes a device to complicated for some users too. But my real point is that the 9850/60 did not feel like touch screen devices to me, no matter how hard BlackBerry tried. There were menus upon submenus in them that made it hard to get things done. I took both the Storm and the 9850 as well as the touch Curve out for a week at a time and just couldn't stand them. Ended up going back to the keyboard BBOS devices because I could work quicker.

i don't think anyone can't disagree that the bridge needs to be finished for BB10 devices... [/COLOR][/FONT]

Do you mean BlackBerry Bridge app or bridging the gap? Assume the latter but want to confirm

[RubberChicken76]

On my Z10 I have 116 apps, 22 games and a few sideloads installed and the thing still flies along no problems. It's the way a modern smartphone should be, and everything that BBOS isn't.

I'm the same way. Despite BlackBerry's infamy about having "no apps", I have quite literally filled my Z10 to the brim with apps numerous times since I've owned it. Despite having much less storage for apps, I can't remember any time where I did the same with a BlackBerry OS device. The only time I got a "low memory error" was when a big update (BB 6 on 9700) filled the device.

I find the app experience on BlackBerry 10 is simply more modern and competitive and I do use them more. More games, more apps, more utilities and more sophisticated all around. It's exposed what I see as the BlackBerry 10 lineups biggest hardware weakness ... the fact that you can't buy them with more storage space. I know my eyes will not get benefit from a 1080p screen and I would rather BlackBerry give me a 64 GB option instead on a future device.

[Dave Bourque]

I'm the same way. Despite BlackBerry's infamy about having "no apps", I have quite literally filled my Z10 to the brim with apps numerous times since I've owned it. Despite having much less storage for apps, I can't remember any time where I did the same with a BlackBerry OS device. The only time I got a "low memory error" was when a big update (BB 6 on 9700) filled the device.

I find the app experience on BlackBerry 10 is simply more modern and competitive and I do use them more. More games, more apps, more utilities and more sophisticated all around. It's exposed what I see as the BlackBerry 10 lineups biggest hardware weakness ... the fact that you can't buy them with more storage space. I know my eyes will not get benefit from a 1080p screen and I would rather BlackBerry give me a 64 GB option instead on a future device.

Yes 64GB of internal memory please.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1259

[belfastdispatcher]

This is exactly what happened. BlackBerry went to the carriers to discuss their support for BB10 in the early days and asked what they'd like it to be like. The answer was "We don't want to pay you for BIS/BES any more."

BlackBerry were in no position to force carriers to still pay for access to the NOC. They needed the support of carriers, however luke warm it turned out to be. The fact BlackBerry couldn't code BIS for QNX reliably was the nail in the coffin for BIS and BES data plans.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

Except they all still pay for BIS/BES to this day, nothing has changed in that respect and they're still signing people up to BIS plans.

That argument doesn't really stand.

[qwerty4ever]

WARNING: Victim card played!


The "vapid fanbois" truly caused you to miss your opportunity to run the company, then. So sorry to hear that.

The next time one of the BlackBerry naysayers gripes about someone using a term like "sheeps" or even "isheep", I will point them to this post as a reminder of why this polarized BS goes on and on and on and on.

Sensitive much omnitech? I expressed an opinion shared by other BlackBerry 10 and long-time BlackBerry users.

Posted via the BlackBerry Q5 using CB10.

[johnnyuk]

However, that is a 2011 phone, 2010 really since they were long delayed to start with.

Pick up a 2010 Android and put it next to an S4.

Posted via CB10

You're amusing.

The 9860 release was delayed from June 2011 to September that year. It wasn't ever going to be released in 2010, OS6 phones were released in 2010.

That pits it against the Galaxy S2 and iPhone 4S both of which absolutely blow any BBOS7 phone away when it comes to how they cope with having a lot of apps installed.


Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[johnnyuk]

I'm going to agree with something is wrong here. You should have more memory than that available. After 2 yrs with the 9930 I had way more apps than 14 and about twice the memory available that you do.

Posted Via CB10 using the power of "Q"

I've been reading recently that Universal Search gobbles app memory for indexes if you have a lot of media. I have a nearly full 16GB memory card. Just another flaw of BBOS, too many things have to compete for that all so precious app memory and all too often it runs out.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[chalx]

I've used, 9900 for almost two years without any problem, but my usage was bare minimum consisted of telephony and corporate emails. I loved quick dial, keyboard shortcuts, profile management etc and hesitated to jump to Z10 knowing that all of things I loved on my 9900 is absent fro QNX . But as Z10 price dropped and when major improvements are seen in leaks I switched to BBOS10. There are lots pros and cons but bottom line is that BIS and BES are relicts from some long passed times, that service books and manufacturer dictatorship over apps is over and that legacy BBRY experience matters to small fragment of market, both corporate and consumer, not enough big for BBRY to survive just by selling devices and services to them. Why is legacy devices outselling BB10 devices is because BB10 devices are not ment for general, shrinking, BBRY support base.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

Except they all still pay for BIS/BES to this day, nothing has changed in that respect and they're still signing people up to BIS plans.

That argument doesn't really stand.

Belfast mate, very very obviously this would not be an overnight change when people have contracts and often keep their phones and/or their Sim cards with specific data plans on for far longer than the minimum term of their contract. Pay As You Go'ers do the same.

Nobody was every going to be turning BIS/BES data plans off anytime soon, BlackBerry UK themselves have told me BIS/BES will be around for several years, 5 at a minimum. It may outlast the company the way things are going if enough people carry on using their BBOS phones!

The fact is that the plan was for BB10 to be the start of weening customers off BIS/BES so that over time carriers had to pay BlackBerry less and less in services charges. The fact that the plan hasn't played out the way it was intended is irrelevant to the fact that it was the plan!

And here we are debating in a thread about the tangible realities of that plan that hasn't worked well in 2013, BBOS is still outselling BB10. It is what it is.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[Davidro1]

I like this idea. BIS app.

Maybe bring a bis app to bb10 ?

Posted via CB10

[SEAWARRIOR]

Oh, I definitely had the issue for a stretch with 10.1 - but fortunately Telus updated it quickly and I haven't seen it much since. Sadly though, even with the random reboot, it was still more reliable than my 9900. I literally had to pull the battery daily for that. :-(



I could see both sides of this argument. On one hand, if you like customizations, this is inflexible. On the other, too much customizability makes a device to complicated for some users too. But my real point is that the 9850/60 did not feel like touch screen devices to me, no matter how hard BlackBerry tried. There were menus upon submenus in them that made it hard to get things done. I took both the Storm and the 9850 as well as the touch Curve out for a week at a time and just couldn't stand them. Ended up going back to the keyboard BBOS devices because I could work quicker.



Do you mean BlackBerry Bridge app or bridging the gap? Assume the latter but want to confirm

that says alot, there,,, you're a qwerty guy, it's quicker in some respects, & more shortcuts, touchscreens are more gesture based, & there are times when i'd like to use a qwerty shortcut on my touch keys, but they're not built in,,, & i was actually referring to the bridge app, but in restrospect, both apply,,, if they carried over the features, notifications & customizations, restored all bridge app functions, & *added* them to "10", they'd have 1 kickazz platform,,, throw some legit specs in as icing & nobody could touch 'em...

[johnnyuk]

that says alot, there,,, you're a qwerty guy, it's quicker in some respects, & more shortcuts, touchscreens are more gesture based, & there are times when i'd like to use a qwerty shortcut on my touch keys, but they're not built in,,, & i was actually referring to the bridge app, but in restrospect, both apply,,, if they carried over the features, notifications & customizations, restored all bridge app functions, & *added* them to "10", they'd have 1 kickazz platform,,, throw some legit specs in as icing & nobody could touch 'em...

Is it the phone Messages and PIM apps you miss from Bridge? I have always found those to be fairly redundant when bridging BBOS phones since the native PIM apps were added to the PlayBook with OS 2.0. On my PlayBook I have the same accounts added to it natively as I do on my Torch 9860 so why do I need to see the same messages, Calendar items and Contacts twice?

This is BlackBerry's official reason for why they dropped them from Bridge for BB10, you can add the accounts natively. There will be obscure scenarios where people have different accounts on maybe multiple BB10 phones they'd like to Bridge temporarily for the bigger screen but BlackBerry went for the most common use case rather than have to code the Hub for Bridge.

I'm sure if the PlayBook had actually been a success things would be different.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[johnnyuk]

i used to have the leak issue, but it was resolved when i updated the os to .861 & there was a particular app, ( dunno which it was), that i deleted, thru trial & error that was part of the problem,,, which os are you on,,, maybe check the 9850/9860 forum for the latest, (.1033 for the 9860)...

v7.1.0.1098 which came along just a couple of weeks ago as an OTA install. I'm pretty sure it is Universal Search indexes eating app memory. I've tried just running the stock OS on this phone and my old Curve 9380 and with 16GB of media on my SD card the app memory still got eaten up.

So, with BBOS7 you can have a nice big memory card BUT don't use it or its bye bye app memory. There's always a BUT with BBOS.


Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[SEAWARRIOR]

Is it the phone Messages and PIM apps you miss from Bridge? I have always found those to be fairly redundant when bridging BBOS phones since the native PIM apps were added to the PlayBook with OS 2.0. On my PlayBook I have the same accounts added to it natively as I do on my Torch 9860 so why do I need to see the same messages, Calendar items and Contacts twice?

This is BlackBerry's official reason for why they dropped them from Bridge for BB10, you can add the accounts natively. There will be obscure scenarios where people have different accounts on maybe multiple BB10 phones they'd like to Bridge temporarily for the bigger screen but BlackBerry went for the most common use case rather than have to code the Hub for Bridge.

I'm sure if the PlayBook had actually been a success things would be different.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

yeah, messaging mostly,,, i love being able to send/recieve/reply from the pb,,, i also found the PIMs redundant, but i could see where it'd come in handy i you wanted to handle certain accts on the phone & others on the pb,,, i did that for a while 'til i had to streamline my life,,, & to this day i'll stand on my playbook soapbox & scream from the hilltops that they should've made it possible to make/recieve calls from it, too,,, everything that's needed to do it is in there,,, such an awesome device w/ tons of (more) potential,,, it's a shame 'cuz they could've slammed everyone w/ it since it did/does what others don't,,, i hope Chen sees that there are still users, (business included, since he's leaning that way), that are, or want to go to "10", that still use it & throw us a bone, even if it's just to clear the shelves of the updates just gathering dust...

[SEAWARRIOR]

v7.1.0.1098 which came along just a couple of weeks ago as an OTA install. I'm pretty sure it is Universal Search indexes eating app memory. I've tried just running the stock OS on this phone and my old Curve 9380 and with 16GB of media on my SD card the app memory still got eaten up.

So, with BBOS7 you can have a nice big memory card BUT don't use it or its bye bye app memory. There's always a BUT with BBOS.


Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

is there a way to toggle it on/off???

[johnnyuk]

Yeh making/taking calls through Bluetooth using the PlayBook was an obvious omission. If the point of Bridge was that your phone just had to be near your PlayBook, like in your pocket, then why omit calls from Bridge. Ah well, we'll never know.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[bobauckland]

I've been reading recently that Universal Search gobbles app memory for indexes if you have a lot of media. I have a nearly full 16GB memory card. Just another flaw of BBOS, too many things have to compete for that all so precious app memory and all too often it runs out.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

Universal search on bb7 absolutely blows bb10 out of the water.
On bb7 you could type something and the search options would populate immediately.
On bb10 there's long comparitive wait times, much longer than bb7.
You praise the hub and don't mention how with a few emails it takes absolute ages to boot up when this was never the case with bb7.
Have you ever used a bb7 device? Your post content doesn't seem to suggest it.

Posted via CB10

[lnichols]

Universal search on bb7 absolutely blows bb10 out of the water.
On bb7 you could type something and the search options would populate immediately.
On bb10 there's long comparitive wait times, much longer than bb7.
You praise the hub and don't mention how with a few emails it takes absolute ages to boot up when this was never the case with bb7.
Have you ever used a bb7 device? Your post content doesn't seem to suggest it.

Posted via CB10

Well when you have the entire OS and emails compressed into 768 MB max compared to 16 GB then that explains a little. And I'll take being able to read my HTML emails over not any day. Also my universal search now is fast enough. I'll take a slight lag there for all the benefits I get with Bb10 over BBOS.

Posted via CB10