[Joao Oliveira]

BB10 is too expensive... A Z10 or Q10 costs almost 700 euros unlocked here in europe... that's around 1000$, and wages here are as low as 480 euros per MONTH...

[lnichols]

Here I disagree vehemently.
You see that in markets with heavier regulations, network coverage and prices are actually in favour to the consumer.

You also see the same effect with broadband and fiber coverage in countries with more regulations.

Less regulations rather tend to give higher prices and worse service.
Look no further than America's duopoly of AT&T and Verizon in the cell phone space.
Or take a look at the Internet providers...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3320473.html

Regulations aren't always bad, especially when we look at one of the most liberal (in an economic sense) countries in the world, the USA and compare them with stricter regulated markets like the EU.

Posted via CB10

Depends on fire regulations and red tape are preventing towers from being built. Sounds like that is the case there.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

BB10 is too expensive... A Z10 or Q10 costs almost 700 euros unlocked here in europe... that's around 1000$, and wages here are as low as 480 euros per MONTH...

Where is *here*?
That the devices are too expensive, is something that is definitely correct, though.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Depends on fire regulations and red tape are preventing towers from being built. Sounds like that is the case there.

Posted via CB10

Surely, it depends.
Regulations *can* also work out in a way, that they don't help the consumer.
But generally, I consider it a pretty big myth, that regulating businesses is bad per se.

I am no expert on UK 3g coverage or regulations, but what I do know, is that compared to other countries like Germany, that have more regulations when it comes down to phone providers or Internet providers, then we see that the consumers in Germany actually get better service, for less money.
Compared to the rest of the EU, the UK is pretty liberal.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

The problem in UK is there's still vast areas without 3G and where there's no 3G BBOS runs rings around BB10 and all other platforms which grind to a halt.

We were talking about cost not coverage, but if you insist....
I live in one of the vast areas in the UK without 3G, and as somebody who has to use GPRS daily on both BBOS and BB10 phones I can assure you that on BOTH it's just as dire an experience in this day and age for anything other than email (minus attachments) and BBM. That's if you manage to catch your BBOS phone in between one of its random bouts of "spinning clock of lag". My Torch 9860 lags like a 1 legged dog with barely any apps installed and needs a daily reboot, because it's so awesome clearly.

Besides that web browsing in BBOS can be so slow through BIS even when you have a 3G signal it's hard to tell the difference when you don't have a 3G signal.

Luckily for BB10 phones and beyond in the UK 4G coverage will be more widespread than 3G ever was. Whereas 3G licences only stipulated that 80% of the country be covered, required coverage is far higher for 4G with one licence requiring 98% indoor and 99% outdoor coverage.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[johnnyuk]

Wow, didn't know that. I always thought Europe was ahead of the U. S. in deploying 4G.

I'm going to Germany next year. Hope things are better there.

In cities yes. In rural areas forget it, commercial mobile operators do not invest millions in putting infrastructure in places where people and businesses don't live, unless they are forced to. It's the same with land line broadband (ADSL) and fibre optic infrastructure, plentiful and fast in cities, nowhere to be seen in rural areas.

With 3G in the UK the mobile operators weren't forced by the Government to cover rural areas, just 80% of the country which mostly only covers urban areas in reality. That mistake was made in the 90's.

This time around with 4G the coverage requirements are much much higher if you want a licence to run a 4G network which is a good thing for BB10 phones, bye bye BBOS in rural areas.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[darkehawke]

You're looking at the 2G coverage map

I wasn't




Posted via CB10

[stevenjamesclark]

From the graph everything (including Apple) is finished. Android rules I suppose. Sent from my Q10.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

I wasn't




Posted via CB10

Look at the bottom right corner of the map.

[belfastdispatcher]

I wasn't




Posted via CB10

This is what you should see.

[darkehawke]

Look at the bottom right corner of the map.

Ahh yeah! You were right!

Posted via CB10

[omekaac]

The basic fact here is that OS7 data plan with carriers in developing countries is much cheaper than the OS10.

Posted via CB10

[GadgetTravel]

The basic fact here is that OS7 data plan with carriers in developing countries is much cheaper than the OS10.

Posted via CB10

Yes. I wasn't aware of that. In the US they are the same.

[MarsupilamiX]

From the graph everything (including Apple) is finished. Android rules I suppose. Sent from my Q10.

Posted via CB10

I guess you'll mean the one I posted.
It's not that simple overall...

Android for example, is an OS that is used by most chinese citizens.
China has a smartphone adoption rate of 80% and a population of 1.3 billion people.
They alone, are able to vastly influence the marketshare.

Android phones are also the only ones (except for the Lumia 520, but WP marketshare is too tiny to be worth mentioning in my analysis) that have prices from 80$, to 700$. Whereas Apple only sells in the 450$+ range (iPhone 4S).

In terms of marketshare, low-end Androids make out a big part of that.
Apple on the other hand, owns the profits in the mobile space.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybrad...all-the-money/

"The reality is that Apple is quite comfortable with the market share data, because the profit numbers are all Apple. Data from Canaccord Genuity shows that during that same period?Q3 of 2013?Apple made more money than all of its competitors combined, taking in 56 percent of the profit in the mobile device market.

The profit data illustrates how Apple?s primary rival is really Samsung?not Android. Samsung made 53 percent of the profit for the quarter. Apple and Samsung combined actually add up to more than 100 percent of all profit for the mobile industry, because all of the other players, like HTC, LG, Motorola, Nokia, and BlackBerry lost money.

The cause of the discrepancy between market share and profit lies in the second half of the IDC market share statement about Android. It turns out that two thirds of the devices that make up Android?s 81 percent market share are cheap "junk phones". The remainder is primarily Samsung, which makes up 39.9 percent of the total Android devices shipped."

Posted via CB10

[Roo Zilla]

Yes. I wasn't aware of that. In the US they are the same.

In the US, the plans cost the same because they provide the same amount of data. In developing markets, BB plans tend to be cheaper because they provide much less data, and that's ok for most BBOS users since the primary use for them is BBM. You can get something like a 30MB plan for a couple bucks a month or something in many places. Similar plans are unavailable or unfeasible for Android or iOS users.

[Joao Oliveira]

Where is *here*?
That the devices are too expensive, is something that is definitely correct, though.

Posted via CB10

Portugal / Europe

[Komet86]

I disagree with point 8. My touchscreen is great with a Seidio Convert Case. Even works with thinner gloves. My curves keyboard got too much dust in it.

Posted via CB10

[d0n4lduck]

That's why I referred to another article.

Posted via CB10

You are right it is a year old article. Yes the picture has changed ever since lasat year and even Blackberry's market share has dropped in Indonesia but apparently it is still indeed significant number. Here is the update:

BlackBerry's decline in established Indonesian market a lesson for Apple, Samsung | NDTV Gadgets
Don't Worry, BlackBerry. Indonesia Still Loves You.
BlackBerry Market Share: Why BlackBerry needs entry-level BB10 phone | BGR

I believe that the reason for the significant drop is the fact that BB10 devices cannot accommodate its existing non enterprise user base's demand (e.g.: the Super Bold) plus the roll out of BBM for Android / Iphone (which I believe they actually still hope that BB10 devices or its future devices can fulfill their needs). So what happen is that either they stick with BBOS or migrate to Android/Iphone [and not to BB10 devices].

Further, I note that some of my friends who migrate to BBM for Iphone encountered problems. The Iphone becomes quickly hot and lagged due to so much BBM messages that they receive (lots of people join groups with active user chatting all the time). Also the cost issue / BIS data plan offering cheaper capped fee. Thus, they start to migrate back to BBOS devices and carrying dual devices (Iphone/Android - BBOS).

[d0n4lduck]

In my experience most BBOS users in the workplace don't even use 99% of those features that aren't in BB10. I'm struggling to think of any good ones, in the workplace on BES10 you still get compression of your work space data comms through the NOC. Please don't say "trackpad", it's the most overrated legacy feature, not a single one of my ex-BBOS users misses the trackpad one bit. They had all moved on to touch only phones without trackpads in their personal lives way before this year.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

May I ask what industry your company is in?

My company is in legal services. I personally does a lot of drafting on the go in my blackberry which requires copy and paste which requires the trackpad for doing it very efficiently (just press alt and select text). I fully agree with what Velocitymj has addressed in the earlier posts on the issues being addressed. I have not tried BB10 devices so I do not know what problem I will encounter. But from reading Velocitymj's post, it seemed that the problem Velocitymj encountered would be mine as well (searching contacts, doing conference call via blackberry while reviewing the email in the same blackberry at the same time for the conference call).

I don't know whether it is just me and Velocitymj or are there many others more like us out there constituting significant number. But for the moment, for people using the device in the way like us, unfortunately only BBOS that can meet our requirements.

[Bbnivende]

If we knew who the customers are for these BBOS devices then perhaps we might know the why. I suspect the main reasons are BIS , low cost or probably just need a no fuss replacement of your old BBOS phone. If you have no need for a smartphone with a screen larger than 2.8 inch screen and you mainly want a phone because it has a physical keyboard then a BBOS phone fits the bill. 3 million in sales is not even a niche market so BBOS users should not gloat. What is apparent is that the market place has no use for a small screen device like the Q at premium prices and a larger screened device with few relevant apps.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[johnnyuk]

May I ask what industry your company is in?

Government.

My company is in legal services. I personally does a lot of drafting on the go in my blackberry which requires copy and paste which requires the trackpad for doing it very efficiently (just press alt and select text). I fully agree with what Velocitymj has addressed in the earlier posts on the issues being addressed. I have not tried BB10 devices so I do not know what problem I will encounter.

You might think you 'require' a trackpad for efficient text selection, but when you try BB10 you will realise that you don't. Like anything different it takes a little adjusting to but I now type long emails and draft technical documents using my Z10 and I don't miss the trackpad when block editing text at all, not one little bit.

BBOS has problems with text selection in other ways that BB10 from OS Version 10.2.x.x on does so much better, such as highlighting large chunks of text quickly and not having to dive in to a long menu to find Cut, Copy, Paste, Select All or Share/Send to.

Let's face it, do the rest of the Smartphone owning world, the 99.8% who don't own a BBOS phone, all struggle to select text efficiently? No.

But from reading Velocitymj's post, it seemed that the problem Velocitymj encountered would be mine as well (searching contacts, doing conference call via blackberry while reviewing the email in the same blackberry at the same time for the conference call).

I don't know whether it is just me and Velocitymj or are there many others more like us out there constituting significant number. But for the moment, for people using the device in the way like us, unfortunately only BBOS that can meet our requirements.

I'll try and find Velocitymj's post but from what you've described BB10 can do those things. Maybe the devil is in the detail, if you could maybe repost his findings?


Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[belfastdispatcher]

Government.

BBOS has problems with text selection in other ways that BB10 from OS Version 10.2.x.x on does so much better, such as highlighting large chunks of text quickly and not having to dive in to a long menu to find Cut, Copy, Paste, Select All or Share/Send to.


Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

Ahem, no you don't have to dive into a long menu to find cut, copy and paste on BBOS, what are you talking about?

BBOS had amazing shortcuts and for large chucks of text it couldn't be quicker: position the cursor (very easy and acurate affair with the trackpad ) press alt and swipe away at the trackpad to select huge amounts of text in a flash. It doesn't get easier then that.

[noelwoodward]

Pricing and pathetic marketing

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

Ahem, no you don't have to dive into a long menu to find cut, copy and paste on BBOS, what are you talking about?

BBOS had amazing shortcuts and for large chucks of text it couldn't be quicker: position the cursor (very easy and acurate affair with the trackpad ) press alt and swipe away at the trackpad to select huge amounts of text in a flash. It doesn't get easier then that.

You are forgetting BlackBerry have been making non-physical keyboard BBOS phones for years, mine doesn't have an Alt button to press. Inconsistency is BBOS' middle name.

BB10 has amazing shortcuts and for large chunks of text it couldn't be quicker: position the cursor (very easy and accurate affair with a responsive OS behind the touch screen, unlike BBOS), swipe the pin up or down the screen to select huge amounts of text in a flash. It doesn't get easier then that.

You see what I did there?

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[belfastdispatcher]

N

You are forgetting BlackBerry have been making non-physical keyboard BBOS phones for years, mine doesn't have an Alt button to press. Inconsistency is BBOS' middle name.

BB10 has amazing shortcuts and for large chunks of text it couldn't be quicker: position the cursor (very easy and accurate affair with a responsive OS behind the touch screen, unlike BBOS), swipe the pin up or down the screen to select huge amounts of text in a flash. It doesn't get easier then that.

You see what I did there?

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

In that case you accurately positioned the cursor with the trackpad, long press for quick menu, select and swipe away at the trackpad. Still miles better.

PS I'm assuming you did know you could do long press on the trackpad for a fast pop up menu.