[islandp]

OP, in my opinion it is because OS7 devices gives users the most BBRY Experience + 'important image' people love which somewhat lost it in OS10.

People was once enticed to buy BBRY because the image of importance and high class image BBRY devices used by shakers and movers. The admiration is somewhat lost.

High end iconic devices are always the most sought after. Unfortunately not everyone can afford one therefore many would settle with alternative lower price devices. It is good to offer alternative low price products but such products cannot help company to survive.

[Roo Zilla]

I suspect the main reason for OS7 outselling BB10 is basically familiarity. Similar to the reason Win8 isn't doing so well. BB10 is a sea change from OS7, and people used to OS7 are most likely unwilling to make such a drastic change, again, similar to why Win8 isn't doing so well. This explains why OS7 is still outselling BB10 even with price reductions. People stick with what they're familiar with. It's one of the reasons why iPhone customers keep buying iPhones.

Realistically, BB10's best hope was to either capture customers new to smartphones, or get people to switch from iOS and Android. Neither happened. New customers tended to go to what their friends and acquaintances had. Android and iOS users were reluctant to switch.

[belfastdispatcher]

In the end it doesn't matter why, what it matter is that it does, they can bang on about BB10 all they want, only a small minority of their user base actually uses one.

They're failing to adapt to the reality.

The only way BB10 will have a chance if it completely clones the Legacy experience including the ability to run Legacy apps that people have paid good money for.

Stop messing about and give users what they want.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

Voice chat was on the legacy BBM a long time before BB10 came out.

Posted via CB10

It was out on BBOS for less than 2 months before BB10 came out, that's not a long time in anyone's book:

http://m.techradar.com/news/software...-voice-1118225

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[qwerty4ever]

Actually, I disagree with that. They have an app problem and a legacy BB user problem.

If, eventually, they simply get access to the entire Android library somehow, this would be a major advancement. Suddenly one major problem is gone.

Then, they fix their current beta-test phones....uh, I mean BB10 phones, and bring back all the legacy features they left behind that is the subject of this thread.

Then, they decide to hire a marketing department that knows what they are doing, and tell the world what they did. (and price point the heck out of it).

The plan is actually simple. It's the ability to execute that is the question.

The decision to support Android applications on BlackBerry OS 10 was stupid. The decision to release BlackBerry OS 7 as a stop gap in the face of delayed readiness of BlackBerry OS 10 was stupid. The decision to lie repeatedly about the delays being due to "wanting to get it right" was stupid. The decision to announce BlackBerry OS 10 was coming for the BlackBerry PlayBook was stupid. In summary BlackBerry made stupid decisions.

Posted via the BlackBerry Q5 using CB10.

[thevacantsoul]

I I bet it's mostly companies upgrading their old curves to newer bolds. I can't imagine there are many consumers actually buying new BB OS 7 devices when there are so many other excellent options.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[qwerty4ever]

OP, in my opinion it is because OS7 devices gives users the most BBRY Experience + 'important image' people love which somewhat lost it in OS10.

People was once enticed to buy BBRY because the image of importance and high class image BBRY devices used by shakers and movers. The admiration is somewhat lost.

High end iconic devices are always the most sought after. Unfortunately not everyone can afford one therefore many would settle with alternative lower price devices. It is good to offer alternative low price products but such products cannot help company to survive.

The decision to release BlackBerry 10 smartphones in a trickle and without adequate marketing instead of launching the BlackBerry Z10 and Q10 and Q5 in early 2013 was clearly further proof that management remained mired in its old mindset and attitude. The pricing of all BlackBerry 10 smartphones has been at premium levels despite unequivocal evidence that BlackBerry mindshare as well as marketshare made them anything but the industry pioneer status once held. The BlackBerry Q5 is the lowest viable smartphone for BlackBerry OS 10 and could easily have appealed to BlackBerry Curve and Bold users along with users seeking a low-cost entry-level BlackBerry 10 smartphone. The fact BlackBerry Messenger does not require a special BlackBerry data plan means a software configuration option to enable/disable BIS just like we can switch WiFi on and off on-demand could have been implemented. This capability would appeal to travellers and people living in the so-called emerging markets without impacting users wanting full-speed connectivity. BlackBerry could still implement such a feature.

Posted via the BlackBerry Q5 using CB10.

[qwerty4ever]

The keyboard is pretty dead, that wasn't too soon.
There is a certain niche, that is willing to sacrifice screen real estate for a physical keyboard...
But that nicht is getting smaller and smaller.

Posted via CB10

As a long-time physical keyboard user and early adopter of the all-touch BlackBerry Z10 I messed the physical keyboard so I bought a BlackBerry Q5. I enjoy the BlackBerry Z10 but as a communications device the Physical keyboard is essential in my case. Unfortunately the current generation of humans want what they perceive as easy; this is reflected in the automobile industry with the announcement that standard transmissions will be phased-out because new drivers can only understand automatic transmission-driven cars. I prefer physical keyboards and standard transmissions and command-line interfaces. Get off my lawn you stare-and-drool punks! ;-)

Posted via the BlackBerry Q5 using CB10.

[dllrogers55]

We're at 16 pages, how are you people still following right now ... I get bored of a topic after the second page

Posted via CB10

I still use my 9900 and for many good reasons. Hated the BB10 devices. I have recently bought the 10.1 2014 edition Samsung tablet and love it. Being on Android forums to learn more is so much different than these on Crackberry! I was quite shocked at the number of comments to posts or lack thereof. It actually is a nice change of pace from all the bickering that goes on here. I dont get bored but rather sick of all the crap and arrogance here.

[engineer4]

For me it is simple, I use my Playbook everyday with the full Bridge from my BB9900. I would very much miss the full bridge if I upgraded to BB10.

[chalx]

BBRY experience along with BIS and BES are not important at all to the hundreds of millions of happy IOS and Android users. RIM recognized that fact and BB10 was born. Nothing can save BBRY except some degree of success in consumer market with BB10.

[Pilot Prop]

I'm not sure what would make someone choose 7 over 10.

Posted via Q10

[pbfan]

If they do make bb10 for Jakarta, they must make bb10 for playbook also. They must not just simply forget playbook users.

[qwerty4ever]

In a nutshell, they appear to have fired most of the legacy engineering staff and tried to re-implement everything from scratch, often using staff that seemingly had no experience with the kind of thing they were designing from the ground up. They bit off more than they could chew, and it might have worked out but the whole thing was not very well managed.

BlackBerry was heavily advertising for Apple iOS developers for many months around the time BlackBerry OS 10 delayed release was announced under the guise of "wanting to get it right." Remember those infamous words by Thorsten Heins? I postulated at the time that The BlackBerry Development Team was not up to the task but as usual the vapid fanbois attacked me.


Posted via the BlackBerry Q5 using CB10.

[belfastdispatcher]

It was out on BBOS for less than 2 months before BB10 came out, that's not a long time in anyone's book:

http://m.techradar.com/news/software...-voice-1118225

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

Yes but it was available in the BlackBerry Beta Zone for a few months before that.

Posted via CB10

[last_attempt]

I'm not sure what would make someone choose 7 over 10.

To keep my current cheap monthly plan from my carrier. Going to BB10, Android or Iphone requires big data plan for another 20 to 30 dollars a month to do something I can already do with a Bold 9900 and a 35 dollar plan. Now if I could get a BB10 phone with the equivalent to a (100 meg BIS data plan) for the same price or close I might have switched to BB10 rather than a 9900 from my old Curve.

[GadgetTravel]

If they do make bb10 for Jakarta, they must make bb10 for playbook also. They must not just simply forget playbook users.

They already have forgotten them.

[bungaboy]

. . . . And those belittling bb7 advantages as obsolete and outdated must have got a bit of a shock today.

Posted via CB10

Yes, I was most pleasantly surprised to see my BB stock increase by 17%.

[axllebeer]

Put a dual core at 1.2GHz and 2GB of ram on a 4.5" screen and then slam a 5MP camera, no.
Your like mixing low end and high end hardware together. Your putting Q5 specs on a big screen. This will cost a lot of money and if it did not sell well BB will lose. A Z10 with a 4.5" screen that would sell many with the proper marketing. Although i consider 4.5" to be a bit big as the Z10 now is big enough in size not in screen size.

Who says a big screen must equate to "high end"?

Posted Via CB10 using the power of "Q"

[MarsupilamiX]

They're failing to adapt to the reality.

Just like you apparently...

Stop messing about and give users what they want.

Posted via CB10

And who would have ever thought that?
I actually agree with you!
Give the users what they want!

Do you know what 99% of users want today?
No trackpad.
No keyboard.
No BIS.
No small 3" display.
Apps.
No hourglassing, no reboots after app installs/deinstalls.
No browser that performs as it would be from the last century.
Etc...

Do you understand that the smartphone market will have grown by about 1 billion phones this year?
Do you understand the implications of BBOS having only about a 1% share of these 1 billion smartphones sold?
Do you understand how shockingly unimportant and irrelevant 1% is?

If you understand all of these things, and you still say that the market demands BBOS devices, then I really wonder how you can take yourself seriously when you say the things you do...
We had the same discussion when 97% of the market didn't buy a BBOS device...

I mean, you understand charts and how to interpret them, right?


You see what happened in Q2, 2010?
That was the moment BlackBerry had lost with BBOS.
The moment consumer preferences have changed so much, that they vastly preferred other solutions.
You see what happened since Q2 2010?
Correct, the established trend of BBOS becoming less and less important accelerated until today, where BBOS has about 1% marketshare.

It really isn't that hard to understand how absurd and out of touch with reality your claims are.
But I guess everybody needs at least something he can believe in.
Some believe in gods, others believe in spaghetti monsters.
You believe in BBOS....

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

Just like you apparently...



And who would have ever thought that?
I actually agree with you!
Give the users what they want!

Do you know what 99% of users want today?
No trackpad.
No keyboard.
No BIS.
No small 3" display.
Apps.
No hourglassing, no reboots after app installs/deinstalls.
No browser that performs as it would be from the last century.
Etc...

Do you understand that the smartphone market will have grown by about 1 billion phones this year?
Do you understand the implications of BBOS having only about a 1% share of these 1 billion smartphones sold?
Do you understand how shockingly unimportant and irrelevant 1% is?

If you understand all of these things, and you still say that the market demands BBOS devices, then I really wonder how you can take yourself seriously when you say the things you do...
We had the same discussion when 97% of the market didn't buy a BBOS device...

I mean, you understand charts and how to interpret them, right?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ales_Share.png

You see what happened in Q2, 2010?
That was the moment BlackBerry had lost with BBOS.
The moment consumer preferences have changed so much, that they vastly preferred other solutions.
You see what happened since Q2 2010?
Correct, the established trend of BBOS becoming less less important accelerated until today, where BBOS has about 1% marketshare.

It really isn't that hard to understand how absurd and out of touch with reality your claims are.
But I guess everybody needs at least something he can believe in.
Some believe in gods, others believe in spaghetti monsters.
You believe in BBOS....

Posted via CB10

I said give users, as in BlackBerry existing users what they want, not the entire global smartphone users.

They can't even get existing users to like the BB10 experience, never mind the rest. Your problem is you think too big all the time. BlackBerry had a potential 80 million users to convert to BB10, remind me how many they converted after a year?

PS, I don't really believe in BBOS anymore, but I believe in the BBOS experience, I don't care if it runs on Java or QNX.

Posted via CB10

[d0n4lduck]

In the software side, BB7 is the result of a slow process of maturity that started with OS4.X.
Sadly, BBRY did not take the experience acquired with BBOS in order to create a better BB10 from the very beginning. That's why OS7.X has a lot of features that we're still waiting on BB10.

So, definitely, BB10 is not a platform for the same type of customers currently using OS7.x devices.

A story published by the Globe and Mail:

"Inside the fall of BlackBerry: How the smartphone inventor failed to adapt"

May provide more details on the sad story that you raised.

Here are the excerpts:

And many long-time BlackBerry users found that the new system was too different from the classic BlackBerry experience for their liking. Many of the little �moments of delight,� as they are called in the company, were forgotten or overlooked by the QNX developers who lacked ties to the company�s past. For example, users can�t hit �u� and look at the last unread message in their inbox, nor can they easily shift to the next or previous e-mail, as they could on older BlackBerrys. Pocket-dialling is a constant hazard.

Mr. Lazaridis decided he would isolate the QNX team and get them to focus solely on the new operating system, while leaving existing programmers to work on products for its existing platform, BlackBerry 7. Eventually he hoped QNX, led by its CEO Dan Dodge, would retrain his entire organization.

But first, RIM had to answer a key question: If it wanted to remake the BlackBerry on the QNX system, what was the best way to do that? Should it move over some of its old Java-based applications, or rewrite them all from scratch? If the company abandoned Java altogether, what would it mean for third-party developers who used it?

These were not easy decisions. Discussions among the senior leaders in Mr. Lazaridis� organization dragged on for a year � far too long, according to several insiders.

Eventually, the decision was made: BlackBerry 10 would be built from scratch. The problem with that approach was that a new team was being entrusted to recreate the BlackBerry. Those who had created the original system were still working on devices for the BlackBerry 7 platform. Once again, the company was split.

[Saiga]

PS, I don't really believe in BBOS anymore, but I believe in the BBOS experience, I don't care if it runs on Java or QNX.

Posted via CB10

I agree with this part. BlackBerry legacy OS had tons of problems, but when it worked, it offered a good and unique experience. It had its own advantages that weren't available on other platforms.

BlackBerry 10 doesn't have that yet. When I owned BlackBerry 10 devices, I very rarely felt like there was a reason to use them over my other phones. The Bold 9930 + a Android device made since to me for the full length of a contract. But BlackBerry 10 + Android seemed like a waste of time for me. I simply didn't need a BlackBerry 10 device to use alongside my Android.

No matter what, at the end of the day BlackBerry is completely irrelevant now. As Marsupial said, they have no market share. The only thing is, BlackBerry 7 still does better than BlackBerry 10 is. BlackBerry is irrelevant and BlackBerry 10 is more irrelevant than even BlackBerry 7 is. That is an accomplish right there.

[d0n4lduck]

Since we have proven, that more or less 50% of BlackBerry's sales happen in emerging markets, you can guess how much lower the average income is in these regions.

China for example, has a GDP per capita of about 6.6k $ a year.
India has about 1.2k.
The US has about 50k.

Now take a big guess, how much spendable income someone has for a phone in an emerging market...
How much exactly, will be hard.
The general situation, as the GDP/Capita itself shows, is as such that there is way less money to spend/waste.

The average phone sold in the US, is worth way more in $, than the average smartphone sold in China.
(avg price of an Android device sold is at about 200$ in China. They do have an incredible smartphone penetration rate of about 80% though. India for example has way less.
http://www.techinasia.com/q3-2013-ch...ndroid-phones/ )


Posted via CB10

The story in the link below should give better understanding on what happen with blackberry in the emerging markets

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ir-blackberrys

[badiyee]

I'm not sure what would make someone choose 7 over 10.

Posted via Q10

for a primary device? mostly probably BB10.

But as a secondary device? Not sure. But I have strong case to argue in favour of BBOS7 vs BB10 as a secondary device, primarily for pre-paid / pre-pay markets with BIS.

That has been the core of BBOS7's (and all other legacy devices) strengths, especially for a secondary device.