[belfastdispatcher]

That is definitely a big factor.

Yes, I watch the iphone and Q10 crawl to a stop on slow 2G, in the same spots where the 9900 and previous used to work no problem.

[Calvin Chin]

Is it because of BIS?? BIS provide unlimited usage for BlackBerry 7 phones while it is not in BlackBerry 10...

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

Is it because of BIS?? BIS provide unlimited usage for BlackBerry 7 phones while it is not in BlackBerry 10...

Posted via CB10

It's not even the unlimited aspect, it's the fact that it keeps working when the data connection is too slow for other platforms.

Sure it will take pretty long to open a web page but at least it will open it and will not stop until it does. The iphone browser times out for example and you have to refresh, which means it starts from the beginning.

I've watched BB10 try to send an email for minutes in such situations, BBOS was simply instant.

[johnnyuk]

Is it because of BIS?? BIS provide unlimited usage for BlackBerry 7 phones while it is not in BlackBerry 10...

Posted via CB10

Carriers provide unlimited usage of BIS data plans or ordinary data plans. It's your carrier screwing you over if you can't get an unlimited data plan for a BB10 phone or any other smartphone.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[tinochiko]

Carriers provide unlimited usage of BIS data plans or ordinary data plans. It's your carrier screwing you over if you can't get an unlimited data plan for a BB10 phone or any other smartphone.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

I don't know about unlimited but i never finish mine, get about 10gb, but that's after some negotiation, threatening to leave etc etc loyal customer etc etc

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[johnnyuk]

I don't know about unlimited but i never finish mine, get about 10gb, but that's after some negotiation, threatening to leave etc etc loyal customer etc etc

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Yeh 10GB a month may as well be unlimited, unless you're downloading Torrents and are a movie, TV show and music buff.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[Omnitech]

I don't know about unlimited but i never finish mine, get about 10gb, but that's after some negotiation, threatening to leave etc etc loyal customer etc etc

I live in Silicon Valley and only use a small fraction of that usage, and I have 8 email accounts configured on my primary Z10, checking email continuously on all of them.

The only way I can foresee someone using 5-10GB of monthly data on a smartphone is if they do a TON of media downloading or streaming, or they tether it to other devices to use its internet connection.

I probably don't even exceed that on my home link most months, and I've got active email servers, DNS servers and FTP servers running off that link 24x7, and I do a fair amount of audio streaming too.

[Omnitech]

Yeh 10GB a month may as well be unlimited, unless you're downloading Torrents and are a movie, TV show and music buff.

Do I hear an echo in here?

BTW Johnny - read your PMs.

[tinochiko]

I live in Silicon Valley and only use a small fraction of that usage, and I have 8 email accounts configured on my primary Z10, checking email continuously on all of them.

The only way I can foresee someone using 5-10GB of monthly data on a smartphone is if they do a TON of media downloading or streaming, or they tether it to other devices to use its internet connection.

I probably don't even exceed that on my home link most months, and I've got active email servers, DNS servers and FTP servers running off that link 24x7, and I do a fair amount of audio streaming too.

That's why it's basically unlimited for me

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[johnnyuk]

Do I hear an echo in here?

BTW Johnny - read your PMs.

Read and replied, I rarely read PMs, would if CB10 supported them.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[Granrey]

not sure how many phones out there you need to bother with learning and doing the following tasks:
- not finding the app you need.
-sideloading
-installing leaked OS
-installing unsuported apps (when sideloading)
-knowing the difference between apk and bar files.

I have a hard time recommending the phone to people with even average phone knowledge. but I still like my phone.

[johnnyuk]

not sure how many phones out there you need to bother with learning and doing the following tasks:

You don't "need" to bother with learning any of them. Can you clarify why you feel anyone who owns a BB10 phone must do all of the below?

If you're interested in technology and have a specific reason for adding an OS feature before official release (you have no patience or you're in the US and your carrier sucks) or a specific use for an app that isn't in BlackBerry World, or your just doing it for kicks to pass the time then you "can" do the things you listed but do you need to just to own and use the phone?

- not finding the app you need.

Legacy BBOS, Windows Phone, Mozilla Phone and, when released, Sailfish and Ubuntu Phone.

-sideloading

Android due to its inherent OS version and hardware fragmentation:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/fea...d_android_apps

-installing leaked OS

Any OS where an unreleased version gets leaked, if you're curious or impatient.

-installing unsuported apps (when sideloading)

Android. See above.

-knowing the difference between apk and bar files.

Is it hard to tell the difference between 3 letters and a another set of 3 letters? You don't have to know what the difference is inside the file to be able to tell them apart, that's the point of the file extension system. And who "needs" to do this anyway, it's more a case of wanting to because you can.


Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[Granrey]

I've had bb legacy devices for years. I never had the need to install a leaked OS or sideloading. My phone always ran smooth.

On my z10, I purchased the app hub ++. guess what? the app only works fine on the leaked OS.

I put my eyes on a smartwatch......its not supported for bb. but a developer makes an app for it, great but only runs on a leaked OS..... Again, another reason to install leaked version.

I don't want to add all the struggle of finding another person with a bb10 to troubleshoot things. years ago it was easy to trouble shoot as other bb devices were around.

I had no other option than to learn how to install the leak and do it.


I see a friend using an app on his iphone a cardreader app. very handy to read and add info from business cards into your contacts. he got the app for free. ON blackberry world the app is not free...its actually expensive and it does not even work properly.

I had to get the android version to sideload it. the same to update my smartwatch, I had to sideload the app to update the firmware on my watch.

Some apps I have received in bar files some in apk. I had no idea how to install them.

is intalling leaked versions, sideloading, learning tech stuff (apk, bar files), going the extra mile to install unsuported devices difficult? I can honestly say, it might look overwelming initially but it is very easy to do and it has made me more knowledgable about my phone and admire the blackberry technology (bb10 being able to run android apps shows how great bb10 is). the Hub is a great feature as well.


on the same token. I would not expect any of my friends to put up with the things I have.

[johnnyuk]

I've had bb legacy devices for years. I never had the need to install a leaked OS or sideloading. My phone always ran smooth.

The pace of development in BB10 is what's driving the requirement of apps for the latest OS. New functionality wasn't added to BBOS at the rate it is being added to BB10. The capability of what apps could do in BBOS barely changed over the years (not a good thing) so you would rarely find yourself needing a newer build of an OS version to use an app.

Apps on BBOS only really took off in the last 3 years of its life. When they did initially there was a user base big enough that it attracted most of the big names at the time. With BB10 there isn't the incentive yet for companies to bring their app when it will barely increase their user base, Android ports to the rescue.

You had a rare experience if your BBOS phone, from OS6 onwards, always ran smoothly. None of mine ever did, they would require daily reboots to free up App storage and ram that had been mysteriously gobbled up and I was plagued by the spinning clock of "oh no you won't use me for a few minutes until I've stopped spinning".

On my z10, I purchased the app hub ++. guess what? the app only works fine on the leaked OS.

You're talking about one feature of the latest version of Hub++, the ability to run headless for a long time on a future as yet unreleased OS version, as if the whole app is broken without it. Hardly fair, and just impatient. The app works as described for the OS version that you have right now. The mistake that's being made is developers are telling customers that their app is now "headless' when the required version of the OS hasn't been released. BlackBerry should have stepped in and prohibited developers from doing that until 10.2.1.x starts to be released by carriers.

I put my eyes on a smartwatch......its not supported for bb. but a developer makes an app for it, great but only runs on a leaked OS..... Again, another reason to install leaked version.

I had no other option than to learn how to install the leak and do it.

Waiting for 10.2.1.x wasn't an option?

I see a friend using an app on his iphone a cardreader app. very handy to read and add info from business cards into your contacts. he got the app for free. ON blackberry world the app is not free...its actually expensive and it does not even work properly.

Why do people expect developers to work for free? Do you think they don't have bills to pay? Mouths to feed? In a tiny user base you are going to have to put "I want it now and I want it for free" culture behind you, man up and pay for software.

I had to get the android version to sideload it. the same to update my smartwatch, I had to sideload the app to update the firmware on my watch.

You could have waited for 10.2.1.x then download the Android app and installed it without the current sideload process. Patience.

Some apps I have received in bar files some in apk. I had no idea how to install them.

I'm sorry, how did you receive those? If somebody is sending you software files or you're going off and downloading them yourself then it's up to you to do your research and find out how to use them, same as on any computer system. Just be thankful that BB10 isn't a walled garden like iOS where you are stuck with the App Store and that's your lot.

I would not expect any of my friends to put up with the things I have.

The things you have done that you wouldn't expect your friends to do are because of things that aren't supported yet in the current OS version. You knew that those things were supported right now in other OS's such as Android but you didn't want to be patient about that support coming to BB10, even though you knew it was coming.

Nobody was forcing your arm but you decided for yourself that you had to use a leaked version of a future OS on your BB10 phone that supports the functionality (and only because that leak happened, what if it had never leaked?) when in fact all you had to do was, and all your friends would have to do is, wait for that future version to be released!

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[tinochiko]

@JohnnyUK do you think that if BlackBerry made Balance fully commercial (not just a BES feature) that this would help bb10 sales? Or hurt BES sales

I say this because I presumed that I had blackberry balance and was sad when I found out it wasn't available for me, only through BES, I even looked for ways to get my phone BES enabled lol I really want that feature but i dont know if it would be plausible to give it to everyone,

Maybe it's a good sales USP for BES, though it still would be if it was available to everyone so..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[lnichols]

@JohnnyUK do you think that if BlackBerry made Balance fully commercial (not just a BES feature) that this would help bb10 sales? Or hurt BES sales

I say this because I presumed that I had blackberry balance and was sad when I found out it wasn't available for me, only through BES, I even looked for ways to get my phone BES enabled lol I really want that feature but i dont know if it would be plausible to give it to everyone,

Maybe it's a good sales USP for BES, though it still would be if it was available to everyone so..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

I think if they had a small business or personal BES router that was about the size of an Apple Airport with options for connecting external drives to, accessing home or business network printers, etc, then it would be a cool feature to have and a differentiator. I would like to see this device with Sling box line functionality would be awesome. The smartphone business isn't just about phones anymore and BlackBerry Isn't in a position to get support from third parties in this area either.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

I think if they had a small business or personal BES router that was about the size of an Apple Airport with options for connecting external drives to, accessing home or business network printers, etc, then it would be a cool feature to have and a differentiator. I would like to see this device with Sling box line functionality would be awesome. The smartphone business isn't just about phones anymore and BlackBerry Isn't in a position to get support from third parties in this area either.

Posted via CB10

Would that enable blackberry balance on a personal phone ? Personally thats the only feature from BES i am interested in so having to pay for a BES router doesn't appeal to me much..

[lnichols]

Would that enable blackberry balance on a personal phone ? Personally thats the only feature from BES i am interested in so having to pay for a BES router doesn't appeal to me much..

If it were implemented on the router.


Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

If it were implemented on the router.


Posted via CB10

What I mean is Balance is disabled on the hardware of the phone, so even with a BES router, because the phone is not BES enabled the features would not be active, maybe I missed something..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[lnichols]

What I mean is Balance is disabled on the hardware of the phone, so even with a BES router, because the phone is not BES enabled the features would not be active, maybe I missed something..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Yes if you go to your email accounts, and advanced, you have an option to add a work account and activation password and it says it will place it in the Work space (this is Balance). BlackBerry could make some modifications to allow you to register your phone and this router to some account and allow them to communicate with each other. Or they could make it work via the VPN functions of BB10. Lots of ways to do this and just a little bit of work by BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

@JohnnyUK do you think that if BlackBerry made Balance fully commercial (not just a BES feature) that this would help bb10 sales? Or hurt BES sales

I say this because I presumed that I had blackberry balance and was sad when I found out it wasn't available for me, only through BES, I even looked for ways to get my phone BES enabled lol I really want that feature but i dont know if it would be plausible to give it to everyone,

Maybe it's a good sales USP for BES, though it still would be if it was available to everyone so..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Balance is a good USP for BES10 at the moment, at least for BlackBerry phones. But BlackBerry's marketing really messed up by advertising Balance to consumers as if it was going to be something they could take advantage of just owning a BB10 phone. They should have made it clear that it would only be useful to them in a BYOD context with their employer, and even then it's a maybe.

Balance as it currently stands isn't a good fit for consumers or small business users without access to a BES10 and an Enterprise grade email system. To decouple it from BES10 would make it become something else, call it Balance Lite or something.

What we are really talking about is containerisation; creating an encrypted space on the phone that contains the data synced from a mailbox and any data saved out from it (attachments, text copied and pasted elsewhere). The container needs to be controlled and configured from somewhere outside of your phone, at the very least to ensure you can't lock yourself out of it permanently if you forget your password.

Although there is such a thing as hosted BES10 Cloud you still need Enterprise email to make use of it. If you're not going to pay for hosted Exchange/MS Office 365 then it's not an option for consumers or small businesses.

However, a Cloud service, BES10 Lite or whatever, supporting consumer mailboxes that can be connected to over IMAP, ActiveSync, POP3/SMTP and CalDav and CardDav could be ideal for providing Balance Lite to a BB10 phone. Think of it as BlackBerry Protect on steroids.

Whether you connect the BES10 Lite account to a supported mailbox using a Web interface or an app on the phone that talks to the cloud service or just setup the account on the phone then designate it your "Work" mailbox where it would be moved to the container as it was created, I don't know which would be best, there are different ways of doing it that ultimately achieve the same goal. They could charge a subscription for using BES10 Lite, they would be unlikely to run this service for free as it may take revenue away from full BES10 otherwise.

I would go this way rather than making a physical BlackBerry router to plug in to your network. The Cloud is the future for services like these. Even your network printer can be hooked up to a Cloud service through your existing ordinary router, BlackBerry could incorporate something similar to Google Cloud Print in to BES10 Lite (and full BES10 for that matter).

If you look at the way BlackBerry Link can provide access to the files on the PC it's running on to a BB10 phone anywhere in the world you can see how this can all be done in software now. No manufacturing costs for a BlackBerry router or costly unsold inventory for BlackBerry, just host the virtual servers in the data centre that provide the cloud services for customers to connect to over the Internet.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[belfastdispatcher]

@JohnnyUK do you think that if BlackBerry made Balance fully commercial (not just a BES feature) that this would help bb10 sales? Or hurt BES sales

I say this because I presumed that I had blackberry balance and was sad when I found out it wasn't available for me, only through BES, I even looked for ways to get my phone BES enabled lol I really want that feature but i dont know if it would be plausible to give it to everyone,

Maybe it's a good sales USP for BES, though it still would be if it was available to everyone so..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

I told them they need to do this at the pre launch bb elite visit to bb uk hq, did they listen? NO! Fell on def ears.

[lnichols]

I told them they need to do this at the pre launch bb elite visit to bb uk hq, did they listen? NO! Fell on def ears.

I'm not sure that Balance, at least as it exists with BES 10 would be valuable for the consumer side. The BES10 and Balance basically create a separate space on the phone that can access the network behind the BES10. You would need a personal BES of some sort with with your own email servers and remote resources behind it for it to translate. Maybe some of these cloud BES services that are getting ready to start will be viable, but we'll have to see how that plays out, and it will be and extra cost.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

I'm not sure that Balance, at least as it exists with BES 10 would be valuable for the consumer side. The BES10 and Balance basically create a separate space on the phone that can access the network behind the BES10. You would need a personal BES of some sort with with your own email servers and remote resources behind it for it to translate. Maybe some of these cloud BES services that are getting ready to start will be viable, but we'll have to see how that plays out, and it will be and extra cost.

Posted via CB10

With a swipe I could lock all important apps and hand it to my kids. I don't know why they couldn't see this as beneficial to normal consumers.

[lnichols]

Right but that isn't Balance, it would be something different. It would be a separate space not connected to separate network. What you are describing could be useful, and should be something BlackBerry could implement easily, but it isn't Balance.

Posted via CB10