[carrollmikej]

I recently aquired a pebble warch thar as we know can be used with bb10 devices. well, I was having some challenges due to not being using the os leaks. as result I was using other peoples phones (I phones and androids) to see if the problem was my bb or the pebble.

during this experience I could see couple things:
-people as general have bad concept about bb even though their phones are more complicated to work with.
-its hard to find people using bb.
-it takes a bit of more time to pair devices on iphone and android than it takes on bb10 and I found the entire logic on those phones more complicated.

This is an interesting observation, especially as to iOS and Android. I find the BlackBerry OS and iOS to be similar conceptually and at least certainly easier to use. I sometimes have to help a friend with his android OS and am at least moderately savvy for an old guy but I find the android OS extremely complicated. I don't understand the concept of that device just because it is so difficult to master and the bloatware on it is almost mind boggling.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

Good news, you will not have to transfer your BBOS apps. I have heard that some stores will help you move your contacts and set up the device for you . I would shop around for a store that will do that for you.

BlackBerry Link, even the very first version that was full of bugs, transferred all my contacts and pretty all my other data from my legacy OS device to my Z10 perfectly.

I open the box.

"Oh..... it's like an iPhone.", he says, surprised and disappointed at the same time as his pre-programmed iBrain reboots with shock.

I must admit I loved that description.

I think you're mixing up BBOS7 'booting up' with coming out of standby.

BBOS phones are only ever truly powered off when the battery is removed. When you press and hold the power button, while it turns off a lot of things, you are actually just putting the OS in to standby. It doesn't need to boot up at all the next time you press the power button, that's why it's so quick.

Now that you mention that, you are 100% correct. I don't use my 9650 much any more, I keep it to refer to when someone has a question about BBOS or because there are a couple of old apps on there I use once in a blue moon.

But using the red "hangup" button to "power off" the device certainly doesn't shut it down completely. To see a full reboot (otherwise known as a cold boot or hard restart), either pull the battery or use the "three finger salute" on a keyboard device (hold down LEFT-ALT, RIGHT-SHIFT and RIGHT-DELETE at the same time) and in the case of my 9650, if you're lucky you'll get a usable UI in about 6-7 minutes. Longer if you're not so lucky...

[lnichols]

Quote: "I think you're mixing up BBOS7 'booting up' with coming out of standby."

You pointed out the facts.
I believe not a great portion of the BB users will understand,
To most people including myself, perception is more important. They don't care if it is a full reboot or come out of stand-by.
Pushing the power button, and tic tic tic, 3 seconds later back online to their carrier. That is a great sensation. Don't you agree?

Install an app and let me know how long the tic, tic, tic takes! BBOS was awful for full device reboots or boots, or battery pulls. When I fly I put the Z10 in airplane mode and out when I land. Why would I power it off?

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

To most people including myself, perception is more important. They don't care if it is a full reboot or come out of stand-by.
Pushing the power button, and tic tic tic, 3 seconds later back online to their carrier. That is a great sensation. Don't you agree?

The reason why "cold reboot" time is very important on a legacy OS device is because of all the times when you are FORCED to do that in order to get it working properly after it has, once again, fallen on its face and stopped working. (Or as others have mentioned, just install a minor update to an app and oftentimes you are forced to completely cold restart the device.)

One of the worst memories of my legacy BlackBerries was not only having to be forced to cold-restart the device every 2-3 days to keep it working properly, but typically each time I did that it was because I had just picked-up the device to do something I needed to do and discovered it was not working, and then had to wait ~7 minutes so I could actually do the thing I had just picked it up to do. (Check the time, make a phone call, check my email, send a text, find somewhere on a map, etc etc.)

[re: another poster asserting they know precisely why Vodafone is only selling refurbished Z10s]
Lol but from what you've said you don't know what the situation is? You just think that your opinion is fact?

There are at least two plausible theories about why they are selling almost new handsets ;

Either they've run out of their new stock

Or they've had high returns and want to sell their returned stick first,

Actually there are many plausible theories.

But of course on the Internet, oversimplification and asserting so-called "facts" not in evidence are extremely popular pastimes.

Here's another likely explanation: the wholesale cost of a Z10 is very close to the wholesale cost of a Z30, the Z30 is a much newer and more capable and attractive device to most customers. Ergo, selling them side-by-side for almost the same price is rather pointless. If I were a reseller in such a position, and particularly if I wanted to keep my number of SKUs down, I would be stocking Z30s instead of Z10s.

[tinochiko]

Actually there are many plausible theories.

But of course on the Internet, oversimplification and asserting so-called "facts" not in evidence are extremely popular pastimes.

Hence; AT LEAST two

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[belfastdispatcher]

There are many plausible theories but only one undeniable fact- BB7 outsells BB10 by 3 to 1.

[tinochiko]

There are many plausible theories but only one undeniable fact- BB7 outsells BB10 by 3 to 1.

Thank you for finally admitting that there's more than one plausible theory and at the same time re clarifying the Post Title

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[Omnitech]

Thank you for finally admitting that there's more than one plausible theory and at the same time re clarifying the Post Title

Give that man a gold star.

[belfastdispatcher]

Thank you for finally admitting that there's more than one plausible theory and at the same time re clarifying the Post Title

TechCraze C0008DDD1

I don't say what the plausible theories are about, so don't thank me yet

[belfastdispatcher]

Thank you for finally admitting that there's more than one plausible theory and at the same time re clarifying the Post Title

TechCraze C0008DDD1

How's this for a fact and plausible theories? O2 and EE no longer selling the Z10. Convinced now?

http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/2014/...op-selling-it/

[tinochiko]

How's this for a fact and plausible theories? O2 and EE no longer selling the Z10. Convinced now?

http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/2014/...op-selling-it/

And things were just starting to brighten up...

We were going back and forth over VODAFONE's decision to only sell refurbished Z10s at this moment in time, for quite a few posts, you seemed to want to push your opinion as fact in terms of the reasoning behind only selling 'almost new' Z10s, any and all other carrier statements are irrelevant to that particular point, so I don't know why you're trying to mix old and new topics,

Convinced of what? I'm not really sure what it is I need to be convinced about? I was trying to explain that there's more than one plausible theory which you refused until a recent post where you finally agreed...

Now you're providing new information (thank you by the way) which individuals can have fresh perspectives about for example ;

it's not surprising that if you haven't sold enough of the old stock, they wouldn't restock especially with the Z30 coming.. for other carriers the low price may be still attracting enough people, but this is just a theory, I haven't taken into account what their initial stock was (if they bought a lot of stock then they don't need to by more vs carriers that bought little stock and still need to get new)

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[belfastdispatcher]

And things were just starting to brighten up...

We were going back and forth over VODAFONE's decision to only sell refurbished Z10s at this moment in time, for quite a few posts, you seemed to want to push your opinion as fact in terms of the reasoning behind only selling 'almost new' Z10s, any and all other carrier statements are irrelevant to that particular point, so I don't know why you're trying to mix old and new topics,

Convinced of what? I'm not really sure what it is I need to be convinced about? I was trying to explain that there's more than one plausible theory which you refused until a recent post where you finally agreed...

Now you're providing new information (thank you by the way) which individuals can have fresh perspectives about for example ;

it's not surprising that if you haven't sold enough of the old stock, they wouldn't restock especially with the Z30 coming.. for other carriers the low price may be still attracting enough people, but this is just a theory, I haven't taken into account what their initial stock was (if they bought a lot of stock then they don't need to by more vs carriers that bought little stock and still need to get new)

TechCraze C0008DDD1

My opinion doesn't come into it, it's a fact, or let's just call it a temporary fact until we see fresh Z10 stock back with the carriers. Until then it will remain a fact

[tinochiko]

My opinion doesn't come into it, it's a fact, or let's just call it a temporary fact until we see fresh Z10 stock back with the carriers. Until then it will remain a fact

What will remain a fact? What are you talking about? And some careers are getting fresh stock? Did you not read the whole article?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[belfastdispatcher]

What will remain a fact? What are you talking about? And some careers are getting fresh stock? Did you not read the whole article?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Man you like to argue, you remind me of myself

I'm done with this topic though.

[johnnyuk]

Here's a worrying thing for the sales of Z30s going in to 2014.

Our EE business contract at work in the UK has Z10s going EOL in February (seems to have drifted a month since December's catalog) but as yet the Z30 hasn't appeared on the list of available devices to replace it. No "Coming Soon" for the Z30 so far for business use on EE.

Sometimes BlackBerry phones appear on the list right at the last minute as the superceded model drops off but it's not looking good.

It's a wonderful phone, I'm loving mine, but I think it's really suffering from being launched during BlackBerry's end-of-2013 turmoil and marketing retreat.

It could end up being the best BlackBerry ever made that Enterprise can't buy from their carrier.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[tinochiko]

Here's a worrying thing for the sales of Z30s going in to 2014.

Our EE business contract at work in the UK has Z10s going EOL in February (seems to have drifted a month since December's catalog) but as yet the Z30 hasn't appeared on the list of available devices to replace it. No "Coming Soon" for the Z30 so far for business use on EE.

Sometimes BlackBerry phones appear on the list right at the last minute as the superceded model drops off but it's not looking good.

It's a wonderful phone, I'm loving mine, but I think it's really suffering from being launched during BlackBerry's end-of-2013 turmoil and marketing retreat.

It could end up being the best BlackBerry ever made that Enterprise can't buy from their carrier.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

Even for individual sales EE (at least locally here) haven't even got Z30 in a 'coming soon' stage, Carphone Warehouse have it here and there though

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[johnnyuk]

Even for individual sales EE (at least locally here) haven't even got Z30 in a 'coming soon' stage, Carphone Warehouse have it here and there though

TechCraze C0008DDD1

The business sides of UK carriers often have models they don't sell or have stopped selling for consumer customers because they know businesses will buy them for specific features. Models can be shortlived though, sometimes only a few months, I guess if they don't sell to business they get rid sharpish.

I really hope the Z30 replaces the Z10 next month with EE or we will be buying it sim free elsewhere and just getting a SIM from EE. Same goes for the soon to be unavailable Z10.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 / 10.2.0.1803 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2

[Tatwi]

Am I really looking to get a new phone every two years, having to migrate all my apps, settings etc. (more or less a half a day job)? For what? Where and when am I going to get all the time spent back?

9900 works for me alright. So why change?

This was me until December. Then I for to use the browser on my wife's HTC One Mini. Going back to the 9900 browser and Opera Mini was not so enjoyable by comparison.

Took the plunge to a bigger screen and better browser, despite being truly quite happy with my then two year old 9900.

Been about one month with the Z10 and I am getting used to the Flick typing. Other than the easy mass storage aspect of the 9900 and easy one handed use of the camera, it seems to be a worthy upgrade.

That said, BlackBerry OS7 is wicked awesome for communication and perfectly acceptable for a daily use device. They have excellent value for the dollar too. I am not at all surprised they continue to sell well. They are WAY better than "feature phones", but often the same price on contract!

Posted via CB10 on BlackBerry Z10

[newcollector]

Why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10? Because BlackBerry really did a lousy job of marketing. Its not that OS7 sells well, but that BB10 sold poorly. Part of the blame has to be carrier support which falls back on the contract that BlackBerry managed to write with the carriers in Western Europe and in the USA.

Why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10? Because in some parts of the world, the network capabilities and the needs of the consumer fit the BIS data compression system. I would suspect that as the capabilities of the network expand and the needs of the consumer (phone price plus and phone capability) increase, then BB10 will increase.

[Kingdmen]

895

Posted via CB10

[Gazza12]

Yep summed it up perfectly. Self employed dirty hands etc etc.

AND ITS GOT BUTTONS !!!!

[Bbnivende]

I was reading an article that the fastest growing demographic for smartphones were those over 55 getting their first smartphone. I figure people of my age will go simple ( iPhone ) or cheap (android ) . Maybe marketing the Jakarta in NA maybe a good idea .. that and make BB10 easier to use. Actually test the phones with this demographic to find out how to make the phone easier to use . They may have to bring back the phone buttons.

[Davidro1]

I figure the opposite. People over 55 have a lot of money. On average. They plan to get quality goods, not temporary goods. Look at what they buy, in cars and clothing. On average.

Older buyers might go for an iPhone because of security ("peace of.mind") or because it's deemed to be simple. They might go for an android because it's powerful.

I waited for many years figuring out how to extricate myself from the Apple egosystem/ecosystem. I resisted buying the iPhone when it came out initially. The more I looked at it, the more I thought a Nokia N95 would be fine. I didn't even get the N95. That was years ago. Later versions of iPhones were amateurish for many years. Android was toyish for many years. The other phone manufacturers were tanking. BlackBerry talked about QNX and lots of good concepts. Some people told me the PlayBook had lots of good stuff even though its market rollout was a failure. So I waited.

I paid full price for a z10 a year ago, and full price for a z30 two months ago.

Actually test the BlackBerry phones with this "demographic" - hey yes, what a good idea... I figure they might say something sounding like this: "get it right when you bring it out to market".

I was reading an article that the fastest growing demographic for smartphones were those over 55 getting their first smartphone. I figure people of my age will go simple ( iPhone ) or cheap (android ) . Maybe marketing the Jakarta in NA maybe a good idea .. that and make BB10 easier to use. Actually test the phones with this demographic to find out how to make the phone easier to use . They may have to bring back the phone buttons.

Bb10 shall begin selling, when people (new buyers) get the impression that it works well, works as stated, works as promised, works well enough to keep the installed base happy,just works.

[Bbnivende]

I do think it is true that BB did not do enough testing of their new OS with real ordinary folk who are not phone software developers. Given that I am the older demographic and I will take a guess that Davidro is not, I would say that the + plus 55 group is peculiar in their spending habits. No problem in spending on a Harley or $25,000 on a river cruise, yet they will not go to a movie unless they have a half price coupon from Costco. Very lavish and cheap at the same time.

I can't say for sure whether or not this group is more likely to buy an expensive phone or a cheap one . I would suggest that they are more likely to buy a phone on a plan and continue to use the phone after the plan ends. I do not think they are into phone Operating systems and they would prefer phones that are easy to use. I think the deciding factor in buying an android over iOS would be the screen size. The deciding factor in favor of the iphone would be that many of their adult children use this phone. Deciding factor in favor of the BlackBerry would likely be the physical keyboard. I will say this , this demographic loves to take pictures on their smartphone. Make it easy and make the camera good.

[Omnitech]

Why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10? Because in some parts of the world, the network capabilities and the needs of the consumer fit the BIS data compression system. I would suspect that as the capabilities of the network expand and the needs of the consumer (phone price plus and phone capability) increase, then BB10 will increase.

That is definitely a big factor.