[Omnitech]

In fact, there is a very common sales tactic and sales training concept for retail salespeople (or any salespeople), and people in sales know exactly what I am talking about.

It is called the "KISS system".

That stands for "Keep It Simple, Stupid".

It means what it looks like.

Give too much information to a customer, and you will drive them right out the door.

Sales courses will teach you this: immediately zero in on their preconceptions and biases, if you can offer the thing that they are already biased toward, Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200, take the most direct route to building-up this bias of theirs and TAKE THEIR MONEY.

Makes no difference whether the product is junk or not.

If you start to talk about product details, you will often notice that literally within 30 seconds their eyes glaze over, they lose interest, and you have lost them.

I have witnessed this over and over and over and over.

People are weird, emotional animals.

[Bbnivende]

To prove your point , today I was in a phone store looking at a Z 10. The rep said "Have you seen the Z30 ? It has the best battery life , 25 hrs , in the business and a 360 degree antenna! A smart salesperson feeds off the client.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[Omnitech]

To prove your point , today I was in a phone store looking at a Z 10. The rep said "Have you seen the Z30 ? It has the best battery life , 25 hrs , in the business and a 360 degree antenna! A smart salesperson feeds off the client.

Wow, what store was that?

Haven't heard a story like that in quite a long while here.

I assume they noticed you had a BlackBerry visible when you walked-in?

[belfastdispatcher]

I just had a look at my carrier's website and they no longer sell new Z10s, only returned models. Strange one.

They list them as "nearly new" and the definition for that is phones that have been bought and returned within 7 days.

I wonder is that the Legacy users giving it a try and returning it?

[Omnitech]

I wonder is that the Legacy users giving it a try and returning it?

Statistically I would say it is far more likely that it is people with no BlackBerry experience returning them, or they are just refurbished models that had been sent in with defects and repaired etc.

[tinochiko]

I just had a look at my carrier's website and they no longer sell new Z10s, only returned models. Strange one.

They list them as "nearly new" and the definition for that is phones that have been bought and returned within 7 days.

I wonder is that the Legacy users giving it a try and returning it?

I think it's the general users (not necessarily legacy users although more than likely they make up the large portion) returns exceeding new sales, so it doesn't make sense for the firm to sell new ones of their stocking up old ones,

Although we now legacy are selling more so the question is why,

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[belfastdispatcher]

Statistically I would say it is far more likely that it is people with no BlackBerry experience returning them, or they are just refurbished models that had been sent in with defects and repaired etc.

They're not refurbished models, they're simply returned within the 7 day return policy.

[Bishkin]

I just had a look at my carrier's website and they no longer sell new Z10s, only returned models. Strange one.

They list them as "nearly new" and the definition for that is phones that have been bought and returned within 7 days.

I wonder is that the Legacy users giving it a try and returning it?

The Z10 is obsolete, no reason to get it now. The customer would be better off looking to the "Jakarta" out in a few months, which should have better specs than the Z10 ....

[belfastdispatcher]

At the same time they still sell the Curve 9320 on OS6 brand new and in black and white too.

[marksthespot60]

Why? Marketing. The Z10 is a better phone but it hasn't been branded well enough. People will believe whatever you want them to believe if you position and deliver your message in the right way. There's no message being pumped through major channels, no branding, nothing.

If BlackBerry were staying in the consumer space, replace every person in Marketing. However, since they're staying in the Enterprise space, I'd say the current team understands what needs to be done.

I've enjoyed a lot of the push back BlackBerry is publishing against the rest of the MDM market. Great, funny ads. At least they're responding to the threat and not playing a dead fish.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

The Z10 is obsolete, no reason to get it now. The customer would be better off looking to the "Jakarta" out in a few months, which should have better specs than the Z10 ....

Really? Even though it's a known low end phone(Jakarta) and the Z10 was released to high end?

No reason to the the z10? This post is about legacy devices outselling bb10 and you're calling a bb10 device obsolete?

Don't get me wrong i want a z30, but my z10 works wonders, if anything, my Z10works better for me now than when I first got it.. so I'm not sure how you can conclude it's obsolete..

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[belfastdispatcher]

Really? Even though it's a known low end phone(Jakarta) and the Z10 was released to high end?

No reason to the the z10? This post is about legacy devices outselling bb10 and you're calling a bb10 device obsolete?

Don't get me wrong i want a z30, but my z10 works wonders, if anything, my Z10works better for me now than when I first got it.. so I'm not sure how you can conclude it's obsolete..

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Well to be fair it looks like Vodafone UK thinks so and they seem to be having a large pool of returned Z10s

[Supa_Fly1]

Simply out: BlackBerry users of old platform are as a majority VERY fearful of change!! If it works don't fix it thoughts rule, and with features missing or too different to accept in BB10 it helps that premonition.

Posted via CB10

[Bishkin]

Really? Even though it's a known low end phone(Jakarta) and the Z10 was released to high end?

No reason to the the z10? This post is about legacy devices outselling bb10 and you're calling a bb10 device obsolete?

Don't get me wrong i want a z30, but my z10 works wonders, if anything, my Z10works better for me now than when I first got it.. so I'm not sure how you can conclude it's obsolete..

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Not really, the Z10 is more like entry level for a phone without keypad. Unless BB don't know how to compete, the Z10 is rather old in phone years. You can like you Z10, just as I like my Z10. I also like my Bold. If the Z10 is not obsolete, then the Bold remains relevant and there is no reason for Bold users to replace theirs with another Bold and not the Z10.

[belfastdispatcher]

Simply out: BlackBerry users of old platform are as a majority VERY fearful of change!! If it works don't fix it thoughts rule, and with features missing or too different to accept in BB10 it helps that premonition.

Posted via CB10

Very true but BBOS users have been resisting change for a long time, ever since the first iphone was released, so what made Bb think that if they slap the BlackBerry logo on one big change BBOS users would jump at it?

[tinochiko]

Well to be fair it looks like Vodafone UK thinks so and they seem to be having a large pool of returned Z10s

It would be interesting to know how reverse engineering the picture shown above come to Vodafones thoughts that the Z10 is obsolete?

A phone not seeking well doesnt make it obsolete, obsolete phones done sell well but it's correlation not cause, as said above the likely scenario imo is returns are higher than new sales, this is data it doesn't tell you why, a company would want to get rid of used phones first as the clock has started ticking on them already, the more they say unsold the less money can be made from them..

Now as to the cause, high returns could indicate a poor product(mainly battery life, but people live with other phones with rubbish battery life so this is just fuel to an already lit fire) , it could also indicate (which is more of the reason again imo) poor information on the product (i.e. Customers don't know how to use it and/or have different expectations than the reality

ob�so�lete �(bs-lt, bs-lt)
adj.
1. No longer in use: an obsolete word.
2. Outmoded in design, style, or construction: an obsolete locomotive.

This makes no sense for the Z10,I wouldn't be surprised that firms don't sell obsolete phones at all

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[Bishkin]

Simply out: BlackBerry users of old platform are as a majority VERY fearful of change!! If it works don't fix it thoughts rule, and with features missing or too different to accept in BB10 it helps that premonition.

Posted via CB10

What kind of a rubbish is this. Aren't you even aware that there are legacy users like me who also own Android prior to my Z10. I bought Z10 because it is cheap. And since they also owned iPhone and/or Androids, chances are they find the Z10s are not up to mark yet. They are waiting for BB to get their act together. But until then, they can still replace their Bold with another Bold and replace their iPhones or their Androids with another model.

[tinochiko]

Not really, the Z10 is more like entry level for a phone without keypad. Unless BB don't know how to compete, the Z10 is rather old in phone years. You can like you Z10, just as I like my Z10. I also like my Bold. If the Z10 is not obsolete, then the Bold remains relevant and there is no reason for Bold users to replace theirs with another Bold and not the Z10.

Wow, wow, did you see the price for the Z10 on launch? What entry level phone is set at that price? Where there not rumours that blackberry would release the Z5 as an entry level substitute for the Z10?? The only reason the Z10 has decreased in price is lack of demand and over supply and I didn't talk about the company's outlook on phones, this is from a consumer perspective, from Blackberry's perspective the Z10 takes second to the Z30 but is in no way obsolete

The logic for the second part is just not understandable , first though I was saying that how can the Z10 be obsolete(see definition above) if it is still useful and pleasant to use for people?

So the Bold, which is OLDER than the Z10 is made relevant by the same terms that make the Z10 relevant? I think you should have put ceteris Paribas there..




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[tinochiko]

Very true but BBOS users have been resisting change for a long time, ever since the first iphone was released, so what made Bb think that if they slap the BlackBerry logo on one big change BBOS users would jump at it?

That's why I said they needed a smooth transition, not just practically, but they needed to ease the minds of individuals, which should have been included in the advertising (different kind of adverts for legacy +general population)

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[tinochiko]

What kind of a rubbish is this. Aren't you even aware that there are legacy users like me who also own Android prior to my Z10. I bought Z10 because it is cheap. And since they also owned iPhone and/or Androids, chances are they find the Z10s are not up to mark yet. They are waiting for BB to get their act together. But until then, they can still replace their Bold with another Bold and replace their iPhones or their Androids with another model.

Probably the same as this

When did you buy the Z10? Must have been recently for you to call it cheap, one of the reasons a lot of legacy where discouraged from BB10 was the price

What about the Z10s is not up to mark with other OS?

The only thread of an argument there is the same one I've been discussing about missing legacy features from bb10

Comparing with android/iphone imo it's all marketing, the Z10 more than wipes the floor with them, Apple lock you in a jail and call it heaven, android opens all the jail cells, BlackBerry let's you decide which cells are unlocked and when

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[Bishkin]

Wow, wow, did you see the price for the Z10 on launch? What entry level phone is set at that price? Where there not rumours that blackberry would release the Z5 as an entry level substitute for the Z10?? The only reason the Z10 has decreased in price is lack of demand and over supply and I didn't talk about the company's outlook on phones, this is from a consumer perspective, from Blackberry's perspective the Z10 takes second to the Z30 but is in no way obsolete

The logic for the second part is just not understandable , first though I was saying that how can the Z10 be obsolete(see definition above) if it is still useful and pleasant to use for people?

So the Bold, which is OLDER than the Z10 is made relevant by the same terms that make the Z10 relevant? I think you should have put ceteris Paribas there..




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I did not buy the Z10 at launch because I find the price ridiculous. Only when it was reasonably discounted that I bought it, and that was less then 2 months ago. Time is on my side.

BB's perspective is irrelevant, it is their perspective that got them in this mess in the very first place. It is always and always will be the consumer's perspective, and nothing else. What consumers don't like, they don't buy. When they don't buy, then reducing the prices does not mean it will make them buy. The consumers have move on, shops have no reason to stock them.

[Bishkin]

When did you buy the Z10? Must have been recently for you to call it cheap, one of the reasons a lot of legacy where discouraged from BB10 was the price.

You beat me to it.

What about the Z10s is not up to mark with other OS?

My mistake if that implied that it is not up to mark with other OSes. I was referring to users' expectations, what they want to see and hope to get from BB10 that may or may not be in relation to other OSes.

[belfastdispatcher]

One thing to be worried about, if Vodafone UK no longer sell new Z10s will they still release OS updates for it? Maybe one more but after that?

[tinochiko]

I did not buy the Z10 at launch because I find the price ridiculous. Only when it was reasonably discounted that I bought it, and that was less then 2 months ago. Time is on my side.

BB's perspective is irrelevant, it is their perspective that got them in this mess in the very first place. It is always and always will be the consumer's perspective, and nothing else. What consumers don't like, they don't buy. When they don't buy, then reducing the prices does not mean it will make them buy. The consumers have move on, shops have no reason to stock them.

It was you that first mentioned or rather assumed BlackBerry's point of view "unless BB don't know how to compete" so thanks for that. Just because you didn't buy the Z10 at launch price doesn't mean it was an entry level device? If it sold well and the price decrease was therefore much more gradual, you might still not have it, so you're just a certain kind of consumer...

'reasonable price' is heavily subjective

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[tinochiko]

One thing to be worried about, if Vodafone UK no longer sell new Z10s will they still release OS updates for it? Maybe one more but after that?

Unless someone can correct me, os updates have nothing to do with number of resales or sales for that matter, I don't see how updates would be affected? They are still selling the phone..

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