[BK_NY_RAY]

I would go with price, availability and BB not letting people know BB10 even exists and what it is.

[johnnyuk]

Universal search on bb7 absolutely blows bb10 out of the water.
On bb7 you could type something and the search options would populate immediately.
On bb10 there's long comparitive wait times, much longer than bb7.

So? I didn't say Search in BB10 was better. I said Universal Search in BB7 eats my app memory until my phone keels over.

You praise the hub

Do I ?!?!?!

and don't mention how with a few emails it takes absolute ages to boot up when this was never the case with bb7.

BB7 doesn't have the Hub, that would rather explain that. In fact where was I even talking about the Hub?!

Have you ever used a bb7 device? Your post content doesn't seem to suggest it.

Have you even READ anything I've said in this thread?! I've been a BESAdmin for over a decade. I've used every version of BBOS and BES from 3.6 up. I've owned 2 BBOS7 phones and have used 6 different models running OS7/7.1

Either you've quoted the wrong person or you've made yourself look rather foolish.



Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

[southlander]

Universal search on bb7 absolutely blows bb10 out of the water.
On bb7 you could type something and the search options would populate immediately.
On bb10 there's long comparitive wait times, much longer than bb7.
You praise the hub and don't mention how with a few emails it takes absolute ages to boot up when this was never the case with bb7.
Have you ever used a bb7 device? Your post content doesn't seem to suggest it.

Posted via CB10

On the latest leak -- 10.2.1.1259 there is now for me very very little delay in the hub populating after a reboot. It went from taking about a minute to load my several thousand messages to now doing so in about 10 seconds. So that seems to be "fixed".

Also on BBOS none of the phones I had were immediately usable and lag free just after boot up. There are always still things loading and caching in the background. Maybe not emails but still.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1259

[Omnitech]

How do you like having to reboot your BBOS phone after installing/uninstalling every app?

How do you like having to reboot your BBOS phone every day to free up app RAM eaten by memory leaks

That was a good list, but I'm only going to highlight those 2. See below.


SEAWARRIOR wrote (And dude - will you please stop "replying" INSIDE of quoted text from someone else's post? It makes it impossible to followup to your posts and it makes it very hard in many cases for people to figure out who said what):

...doesn't bother me,,, it gives me the option for now or later,,, since .1066 install, my boot time has improved greatly,,, (about 1m20s)...

Good for you.

My 9650 took MINIMUM 5 minutes to reboot, often longer.

And I know for a fact that this is/was not a "unique" experience. Search the Crackberry forums and you will discover these discussions were rampant.

I can go over right now and do a restart and time it if you like.

In reference to johnnyuk's comments, it's a REAL b*tch if you have to do such restarts on a daily or several-times-a-week basis, especially if you pick it up to do some time sensitive task and discover it has fallen-over again.

I used to have to do it so often I had created a shortcut in Quicklaunch for that purpose. (Which of course only helped if the device wasn't completely wedged. Whereupon one had to resort to the infamous and well-known "BlackBerry battery pull".)

[Omnitech]

I could not agree more with the downsides of the BBOS that you listed down.

Just curious on the memory leaks. Why Blackberry did not simply produce upgraded BBOS device with very large RAM to solve this problem to bridge the transition period before BB10 was launched [to maintain BBOS fans for a little while]? Is it so complicated? To me the most annoying thing is the fact that the RAM that is so tiny. I still can bear the slow browsing/ lack of flash issue.

I think there may be a long standing legacy physical limit to the amount of memory for the storage of app .cod files that BBOS can address hence the strange amounts of available app memory that phones ended up with like 189MB... how random?!

This article explains a lot apart from if limits exist and if so why, frustratingly.

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...-limit-637544/

Don't forget that old-school Blackberries were famous for their battery life. Which had a lot to do with small screen, slow CPU, and little RAM.

If one were to double or quadruple the amount of RAM on such a device, battery life would go down significantly. RAM needs continuous power just to keep the DRAM capacitors charged, or else the data disappears. More RAM = higher power consumption. (Assuming equal efficiency chips. Power usage per MB goes down over time as chip technology improves.)

[Omnitech]

Have you ever used a bb7 device? Your post content doesn't seem to suggest it.

Preconceived notions die hard with some, and you're as big a diehard as I've encountered.

Try reading the thread.

(following-up to bobauckland)
Have you even READ anything I've said in this thread?! I've been a BESAdmin for over a decade. I've used every version of BBOS and BES from 3.6 up. I've owned 2 BBOS7 phones and have used 6 different models running OS7/7.1

Either you've quoted the wrong person or you've made yourself look rather foolish

I'm surprised you've never encountered Bob here before.

Bob, meet Johnny, Johnny, meet Bob.

Bob will probably be the last man aboard the sinking BBOS ship, claiming while he's quickly sinking to the seabed that the ship isn't actually sinking... and if it is, it's because the ship got some kind of raw deal and didn't deserve it's fate...

[belfastdispatcher]

Is it the phone Messages and PIM apps you miss from Bridge? I have always found those to be fairly redundant when bridging BBOS phones since the native PIM apps were added to the PlayBook with OS 2.0. On my PlayBook I have the same accounts added to it natively as I do on my Torch 9860 so why do I need to see the same messages, Calendar items and Contacts twice?

This is BlackBerry's official reason for why they dropped them from Bridge for BB10, you can add the accounts natively. There will be obscure scenarios where people have different accounts on maybe multiple BB10 phones they'd like to Bridge temporarily for the bigger screen but BlackBerry went for the most common use case rather than have to code the Hub for Bridge.

I'm sure if the PlayBook had actually been a success things would be different.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

You can't add sms, Bbm and non sync calendars etc plus if you set all accounts on the PB it makes it less of a shareable tablet.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

Belfast mate, very very obviously this would not be an overnight change when people have contracts and often keep their phones and/or their Sim cards with specific data plans on for far longer than the minimum term of their contract. Pay As You Go'ers do the same.

Nobody was every going to be turning BIS/BES data plans off anytime soon, BlackBerry UK themselves have told me BIS/BES will be around for several years, 5 at a minimum. It may outlast the company the way things are going if enough people carry on using their BBOS phones!

The fact is that the plan was for BB10 to be the start of weening customers off BIS/BES so that over time carriers had to pay BlackBerry less and less in services charges. The fact that the plan hasn't played out the way it was intended is irrelevant to the fact that it was the plan!

And here we are debating in a thread about the tangible realities of that plan that hasn't worked well in 2013, BBOS is still outselling BB10. It is what it is.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

What a stupid plan that was.

Posted via CB10

[chalx]

Plan was necessity dictated by market. When 9900 was released BBRY was in free fall already. BBOS is reason why BBRY is in this position. Yes, it was great in some areas, but webOS was also great in some areas same as Harmattan. Hell, Symbian had some great features also. Only problem in plan was insisting on proprietary OS which should carry all strong points of previous OS but it didn't. That fact alienated loyal fan base reliant on legacy BBRY features. BBRY should go with Android, embedding BBRY UX deep in system but keeping Android app compatibility like HTC did with Sense. That way they would be forced to kill some of the old BBRY features hard to implement in Android, but on other hand would avoid app gap. It would give BBRY at least a fighting chance.

[RubberChicken76]

that says alot, there,,, you're a qwerty guy

I was on BBOS definitely. But since leaving the 9900 behind, I've been all touch - PlayBook, iPhone 4S, Z10, Kindle Fire

[SEAWARRIOR]

Belfast mate, very very obviously this would not be an overnight change when people have contracts and often keep their phones and/or their Sim cards with specific data plans on for far longer than the minimum term of their contract. Pay As You Go'ers do the same.

Nobody was every going to be turning BIS/BES data plans off anytime soon, BlackBerry UK themselves have told me BIS/BES will be around for several years, 5 at a minimum. It may outlast the company the way things are going if enough people carry on using their BBOS phones!

The fact is that the plan was for BB10 to be the start of weening customers off BIS/BES so that over time carriers had to pay BlackBerry less and less in services charges. The fact that the plan hasn't played out the way it was intended is irrelevant to the fact that it was the plan!

And here we are debating in a thread about the tangible realities of that plan that hasn't worked well in 2013, BBOS is still outselling BB10. It is what it is.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

& by a 3-1 margin @ that...

[SEAWARRIOR]

v7.1.0.1098 which came along just a couple of weeks ago as an OTA install. I'm pretty sure it is Universal Search indexes eating app memory. I've tried just running the stock OS on this phone and my old Curve 9380 and with 16GB of media on my SD card the app memory still got eaten up.

So, with BBOS7 you can have a nice big memory card BUT don't use it or its bye bye app memory. There's always a BUT with BBOS.


Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK

i haven't noticed that,,, i have 4GB card that has 1.7 free space,,, it's got 30 pics & a ton of music, (12+ hrs),,, like mentioned earlier, since .861 my memory problems have disappeared,,, i wonder if formatting the card, ( i know reloading the data sux), would help???

[SEAWARRIOR]

Well when you have the entire OS and emails compressed into 768 MB max compared to 16 GB then that explains a little. And I'll take being able to read my HTML emails over not any day. Also my universal search now is fast enough. I'll take a slight lag there for all the benefits I get with Bb10 over BBOS.

Posted via CB10

are you saying you can't read HTML on your BBOS??? is this carrier specific??? i know i can read them,,, there's even an option in the setting to toggle it...

[SEAWARRIOR]

That was a good list, but I'm only going to highlight those 2. See below.


SEAWARRIOR wrote (And dude - will you please stop "replying" INSIDE of quoted text from someone else's post? It makes it impossible to followup to your posts and it makes it very hard in many cases for people to figure out who said what):

ummm, dude,,, that's why i replied to each question in *this* manner,,, it may be difficult for you, but may not be for others,,, please don't generalize,,, & actually, it's probably easier, in many cases, to reply to a quote w/ many questions in *this* manner, rather than to reply to them seperately below the text being quoted,,, it keeps you, in many cases, from having to look up @ the quoted text & back down to see the response,,, & if, in many cases, people are having a hard time figuring out who said what, then they need to read my thread entitled "Reading Comprehension & the Fall of Western Society",,, it's required reading, in many cases, for all students @ the jr. high level...


Good for you.

My 9650 took MINIMUM 5 minutes to reboot, often longer.

And I know for a fact that this is/was not a "unique" experience. Search the Crackberry forums and you will discover these discussions were rampant.

I can go over right now and do a restart and time it if you like.

In reference to johnnyuk's comments, it's a REAL b*tch if you have to do such restarts on a daily or several-times-a-week basis, especially if you pick it up to do some time sensitive task and discover it has fallen-over again.

I used to have to do it so often I had created a shortcut in Quicklaunch for that purpose. (Which of course only helped if the device wasn't completely wedged. Whereupon one had to resort to the infamous and well-known "BlackBerry battery pull".)

ok, where was i??? oh, yeah,,, like previously mentioned, i think that some of these issues *may* be associated w/ the 9860 variants vs. the 9850,,, i don't, or have ever had, the issues UK has, or the boot up issue that you have, (& yes, it's a b!tch, i agree),,, i think the longest it ever took was 2mins that i can recall...

[lnichols]

are you saying you can't read HTML on your BBOS??? is this carrier specific??? i know i can read them,,, there's even an option in the setting to toggle it...

I know that emails that came in from like Meetup, or other services just showed up as garbage on my 9900 with an X and something about BlackBerry. When I switched to my Z10 I was shocked that when these emails from Meetup came in for an event, it showed up as a meeting invite, and I could hit the the "Add to Calendar" option at the bottom, not in the email, but as part of the OS. That is a very nice feature that my 9900 couldn't do. Their are plenty of other issues like a large number of recipients in an email message being truncated making a reply all worthless which bit me in the behind a couple of times trying to keep a large group of people updated on an event.

Posted via CB10

[SEAWARRIOR]

I know that emails that came in from like Meetup, or other services just showed up as garbage on my 9900 with an X and something about BlackBerry. When I switched to my Z10 I was shocked that when these emails from Meetup came in for an event, it showed up as a meeting invite, and I could hit the the "Add to Calendar" option at the bottom, not in the email, but as part of the OS. That is a very nice feature that my 9900 couldn't do. Their are plenty of other issues like a large number of recipients in an email message being truncated making a reply all worthless which bit me in the behind a couple of times trying to keep a large group of people updated on an event.

Posted via CB10

yeah,,, those are 2 words that i dislike quite a bit,,, trunc-ated,,, ,,, especially if i'm sending myself a long song, (usually over 5MB), that i want to add to my phone without hookin' up the umbilical...

[Bbnivende]

That was a good list, but I'm only going to highlight those 2. See below.


SEAWARRIOR wrote (And dude - will you please stop "replying" INSIDE of quoted text from someone else's post? It makes it impossible to followup to your posts and it makes it very hard in many cases for people to figure out who said what):





Good for you.

My 9650 took MINIMUM 5 minutes to reboot, often longer.

And I know for a fact that this is/was not a "unique" experience. Search the Crackberry forums and you will discover these discussions were rampant.

I can go over right now and do a restart and time it if you like.

In reference to johnnyuk's comments, it's a REAL b*tch if you have to do such restarts on a daily or several-times-a-week basis, especially if you pick it up to do some time sensitive task and discover it has fallen-over again.

I used to have to do it so often I had created a shortcut in Quicklaunch for that purpose. (Which of course only helped if the device wasn't completely wedged. Whereupon one had to resort to the infamous and well-known "BlackBerry battery pull".)

I don't doubt that your experience was true for you but will the purchasers of BBOS devices have all of these issues ? My two year old 9900 works fine. Yes I have performed the odd battery pull but not very many. It is true that BB10 is a far more capable OS for consuming media and web browsing and running apps. The purchasers of BBOS phones did so probably for economic reasons or they just like the OS for texting and emailing better.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[johnnyuk]

You can't add sms, Bbm and non sync calendars etc plus if you set all accounts on the PB it makes it less of a shareable tablet.

Posted via CB10

SMS and BBM have been added to BB10 Bridge recently. The fact is people don't share their tablet, that's what BlackBerry mistakenly thought people would want to do with PlayBooks in the workplace, share them indiscriminately. Of course that wasn't the case, so far tablets are the most personal computing devices since the Smartphone. We don't share our tablets.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2

[johnnyuk]

Don't forget that old-school Blackberries were famous for their battery life

Not BBOS7 phones! They were the first line to introduce poor battery life to Blackberrys. I was shocked at the appalling battery life when I first used a Curve 9360. Mind you it desensitised me in preparation for my Z10 lol

I have personally experienced the poor battery life of the BBOS7 Curve, Bold and Torch series. It isn't like the good old days.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2

[johnnyuk]

I'm surprised you've never encountered Bob here before.

Bob, meet Johnny, Johnny, meet Bob.

Bob will probably be the last man aboard the sinking BBOS ship, claiming while he's quickly sinking to the seabed that the ship isn't actually sinking... and if it is, it's because the ship got some kind of raw deal and didn't deserve it's fate...

I recognise Bob's user id from elsewhere, just didn't know how 'Captain Edward Smith' he was!


Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2

[belfastdispatcher]

SMS and BBM have been added to BB10 Bridge recently. The fact is people don't share their tablet, that's what BlackBerry mistakenly thought people would want to do with PlayBooks in the workplace, share them indiscriminately. Of course that wasn't the case, so far tablets are the most personal computing devices since the Smartphone. We don't share our tablets.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2

I know that but you can't add them on the PlayBook natively which still makes the case for Bridge, legacy or bb10.

My PlayBook is for the whole family, that's why I don't set up my work emails on it.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

Not BBOS7 phones! They were the first line to introduce poor battery life to Blackberrys. I was shocked at the appalling battery life when I first used a Curve 9360. Mind you it desensitised me in preparation for my Z10 lol

I have personally experienced the poor battery life of the BBOS7 Curve, Bold and Torch series. It isn't like the good old days.

Posted via CB10 on Z10 STL100-2 on EE, UK - Activated on BES10.2

Yes, BlackBerry mistakes didn't start with BB10, they really went down hill with BB7, battery life was a major problem. I mean the battery in the 9900 was absolutely tiny. They wiped a major BlackBerry advantage overnight.

Posted via CB10

[axllebeer]

I know that but you can't add them on the PlayBook natively which still makes the case for Bridge, legacy or bb10.

My PlayBook is for the whole family, that's why I don't set up my work emails on it.

Posted via CB10

Another good point along these lines is that you can't refresh the native PlayBook email using the bridge data connection.

And there is no messages app that bridges with your BB10 phone. So for people that used to not have to use wifi or hotspot to access some kind of email experience on the PlayBook , you are out of luck now that you have upgraded to BB10.

Posted Via CB10 using the power of "Q"

[BeautyEh]

Ah, the pleasant feeling of being Jonny-come-lately to a great thread. It's been mentioned a couple of times here but I didn't see anyone really go into it - BlackBerry clearly blew it by not making Q5 a true budget device. By all accounts it's a nice phone; they did aim it to be less expensive than the other 10 devices, but still not nearly low enough to truly compete in the low end market. That's the one they should have mass produced and just made peace with breaking even on, not profiting, if only to pump out several million new BB's into new customers' hands. Very disappointing.

Posted via CB10

[arlene_t]

Because many users who come from OS7 devices feels that q10 is in adequate for more productivity compared to their 9900. Due to shortcut keys and easier navigation

Posted via the Amazing Q10 10.2.0.415