[darkehawke]

I have friends that own nexus 4's, note 2s that specifically root because they aren't happy with lag that bogs down the OS. It's still a thing.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

I have rarely seen lag in android since 4.0 and kitkat is a very smooth experience on the nexus 5. Just my personal perspective

Posted via CB10

[pantlesspenguin]

I have friends that own nexus 4's, note 2s that specifically root because they aren't happy with lag that bogs down the OS. It's still a thing.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

There's lag on Sammy devices because TW has gotten so bloated, it has nothing to do with Android inefficiency. I ran a Nexus 4 at the same time as my Z10 and both devices were nearly identical in terms of speed. The only time I saw lag on the Nexus was sometimes when swiping through panels on the lock screen, and the only time I saw lag on the Z10 was sometimes when switching between apps.

[redlightblinking]

So the case isn't closed. There's still a opportunity for them to change that. BB10 is not a beta test phone... ffs

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

"The case" wasn't about a recovery. "The case" was about your post about the current situation with apps. At the moment....the case is still closed.

BB10.....from the point of view of someone who wants to run more than 8 things at once, and have something stay running, like a popup, or a wifi manager, or (anything).....is that this lack of basic programming makes it still in beta test.

From the point of view that someone who wants to do the same things they did with their "inferior" BBOS phone (and I mean very simple things) but still is waiting, and waiting, and waiting, is that it is still in beta-test until they finally get those things back.

[Kingdmen]

How do you people maintain a forum conversation that runs on past a few pages, let alone double digit page numbers...

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Not to be able to run any apps they dont. They dont need to root to run most apps.

Every app that I would require, notably apps that come close to what the LBE Privacy Guard can do, would require a rooted phone.

I would never use an Android phone, without such an app installed.

Posted via CB10

[Dave Bourque]

http://berryflow.com/blackberry-ceo-...without-fight/ I'll leave it at that. Some of you may have abandoned BlackBerry. But BlackBerry isn't going to give up so easily.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

[Moonbase0ne]

Case closed? Rofl. Guess what android users hot wire their ffing phones all the time... its called rooting...

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

But isn't that optional? And I would assume that the more techie folks are the ones rooting. The people who come to forums when they hear that certain features are being blocked by their carrier but the phone can very well do it if they root.

The thing is, you still have full access to all of Google Play's apps. No work around, no third party sites, etc... No matter how easy it is, The average Joe/Jane wants to have full access to their apps of choice. No work around or third party websites, etc... required. Just simply going to the app store send downloading it.

[GadgetTravel]

So the case isn't closed. There's still a opportunity for them to change that. BB10 is not a beta test phone... ffs

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

Except it isn't clear how they "get across to the entire Android library somehow". As far as I can see they dont even plan to do that. Plus, it will be when? They are losing market every quarter. So by the end of 2015 they will have a mature OS that can run a percentage of Android apps. That really doesnt help much in terms of improvement and by then they will be much further behind.

[Moonbase0ne]

No they have OS performance issues. That's why they root. For a smoother experience.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

Due respect, are we just making up things now?

[GadgetTravel]

Every app that I would require, notably apps that come close to what the LBE Privacy Guard can do, would require a rooted phone.

I would never use an Android phone, without such an app installed.

Posted via CB10

So do a lot of others such as Titanium Backup. But I think the very large majority of Android users go day to day with an unrooted phone just fine.

[MarsupilamiX]

These are all true.
As I said, BBOS was nearing the end of life (and perhaps passed it). It's not that I do not understand these, and I am not arguing about it.
But I am discussing only in the context of the thread title, i.e., why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10?
When BBRY was hyping up the BB10, I was very much looking forward to updated (or modern) BB, that would naturally excel and replace my obsolete 9900.
When Q10 came out, I jumped on it and bought it. But sadly, I quickly found out that it was no BB, and returned it in 2 days, but with the expectation that I would revisit it when it is more polished. I think BBRY is rethinking the whole situation, and trying to listen to the market, which is a good sign.
What I think is, if I cut out the present moment, evaluated how I am using the mobile device, compared pros and cons between BBOS and BB10, I found that BBOS more appropriately suit my usage pattern and purposes. Based on this, I made a conscious decision to stick to the 9900 "for now", watching how BBRY's device strategy might evolve. I am in no rush.
I know what the iPhone is capable of (as I use it :-), but simply found that using the 9900 for a narrow and dedicated purpose, with the iPhone as a supplemental device, is a very efficient use of mobile/handheld device.
The 9900 is an old device, and I am keenly aware and afraid that sooner or later, it will really become obsolete and even "expire". But again, at this very moment, I decided it was more useful "for my usage pattern and the purpose".
For example, one of my banking apps offers a photo deposit capability, which I use often. The 9900 is totally useless for this purpose for the reasons you listed, and I have to bring out the iPhone for that. But I can juggle and manage these situations. OTOH, while iPhone is good for email, complete with a unified inbox and lock screen notification etc., it is still not as convenient as the 9900's management of the communications.
I do not consider a smartphone a do-all device (I used to). Once I came to this conclusion, fully knowing what the 9900 can and cannot do, I am very comfortable and my mind is at peace. At this very moment, pros of the 9900 have a slight edges over cons, or any other arrangement. That's what I am saying, and YMMV.
And I might also mention that I am eagerly awaiting for somewhat more complete and polished form of the Q10, be it hardware wise or software wise (perhaps both).
Having the iPhone, I have absolutely no reason to look beyond any other alternative device than a BB with convenient and time saving features and function I desire. Ideally, I do not have to carry around 2 devices, which is silly.
Sorry for a long gibberish ;-).

I will combine your answer with another reply, as I have the impression of both posts going into a very similar direction.

I actually agree with you, sort of. A large percentage of people don't want bbos or anything like it. Except the minority that use it and love it.
The problem is, with bb10 not offering what bbos offered, you've got a phone that's basically an iphone or android knock off, with inferior ecosystem and specs, priced too high.
So android and ios users don't like it cos it's inferior, and BlackBerry users, minority though they might be, stick with legacy.
Which is a bad situation for BlackBerry. I'm not saying bbos was perfect. Or even that the solution was to keep chucking out bbos devices. But bb10 needed to offer a lot more bbos features to keep bbos users and attract ios/android users. By not doing that, they alienated bbos users and didn't really provide much to attract other users.

Posted via CB10

It's not like I would disagree with all statements in both posts...
It may actually be true, that there should have been more BBOS in BB10.

And it probably isn't false to say, that BB10 is still lacking in some areas, apart from apps...

But...
Overall, the question is, if former or current BBOS users would jump on the BB10 bandwagon, if it would be more like the legacy OS, or if these users would prefer the iOS and Android paradigm anyhow.

From the data we have since the introduction of iOS and Android, my interpretation is that most people don't care about BlackBerry's USPs with BBOS.
BIS certainly is somewhere close to completely irrelevant today.
Trackpads? Yeah....
Keyboards (even though I'd buy a good slider or Bold with a big enough screen instantly) have completely lost their appeal for most smartphone owners.

It may be an incomplete list of features, but the general tendency from the average consumer, is that he doesn't care one bit about the USPs a legacy BlackBerry has.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Due respect, are we just making up things now?

I don't think that he makes it up, when he talks about his friends.

So do a lot of others such as Titanium Backup. But I think the very large majority of Android users go day to day with an unrooted phone just fine.

No doubt about that.
I just wanted to say, that I couldn't use an Android device, without such an app.
And as long as such apps require root, I do too.

Posted via CB10

[nt300]

Pricing of the BB10 devices and mainly MARKETING are my thoughts on why its not out there as much as it should be.

You hit the nail square on the head.
Chen is about to fix the last administration's nonsense.

[Just TM]

In all fairness I think it is referred to as just the other side of the road

[MarsupilamiX]

http://berryflow.com/blackberry-ceo-...without-fight/ I'll leave it at that. Some of you may have abandoned BlackBerry. But BlackBerry isn't going to give up so easily.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

I will be honest here:
I was never sure that BlackBerry would make it with their new OS.

And the execution was so damn poor, that I wonder how much an enterprise can make wrong, even though their life hangs on their new product.

That's why I still think the same thing I did, when BB10 was launched:
BBOS already has failed, and BB10 has a lot of potential.
If the potential is never met though, then nothing can help BlackBerry anyhow.

What we have right now, is way better than what we had at the launch, but the progress happens to slow...
Let's see how it all plays out.

Posted via CB10

[redlightblinking]

BBOS already has failed,

Posted via CB10

Then, based on the title of this thread, BB10 has failed much worse.

What we have right now, is way better than what we had at the launch, but the progress happens to slow...
Let's see how it all plays out.

Posted via CB10

And......how long do we stare at the sinking ship?

[donmateo]

Most people overlook the fact that with BES customers, they need replacement phones frequently, but have not upgraded to BES10. They still use BBOS devices and when they die, they are replaced by BBOS devices until they upgrade to BES10.

[Dave Bourque]

Then, based on the title of this thread, BB10 has failed much worse.


And......how long do we stare at the sinking ship?

It's not over until it's over. You are free to not watch.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

[redlightblinking]

It's not over until it's over. You are free to not watch.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

Yes, thank you for stating the obvious. I'm a BB user, I want them to succeed. I'm just not naive enough to ignore all the incredibly obvious reasons why they are still failing.

[MarsupilamiX]

Then, based on the title of this thread, BB10 has failed much worse.

BBOS once was the market-leader, in a non-mature and non-saturated market.

The moment BBOS had some serious competition, it began to fail miserably.
And it had about 10 years of time, to fail.
Your pseudo-rhetoric "skill" doesn't withstand the fact, that both situations aren't comparable.

And......how long do we stare at the sinking ship?

Either until it has sunken deep into the ocean, or until it saved itself.
Going back to BBOS is a non-option anyway, so if anything, the most creative solution would be to go with Android.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Yes, thank you for stating the obvious. I'm a BB user, I want them to succeed. I'm just not naive enough to ignore all the incredibly obvious reasons why they are still failing.

Whatever these reasons are, never forget that BBOS is one main reason for it.
BB10 came between 3-5 years too late.

The uphill battle BB10 is facing, is directly linked to BlackBerry's incompetence and arrogance to understand the market, when Android and iOS became popular.
The Storm was the first indicator of BBOS' future:
A non-existant one.

Posted via CB10

[redlightblinking]

BBOS once was the market-leader, in a non-mature and non-saturated market.

The moment BBOS had some serious competition, it began to fail miserably.
And it had about 10 years of time, to fail.
Your pseudo-rhetoric "skill" doesn't withstand the fact, that both situations aren't comparable.

They are both BB phones. They aren't comparable? One is still outselling the other. And it's.....according to you.....failed miserably. So, by that logic, BB10 had failed even more miserably.

Going back to BBOS is a non-option anyway, so if anything, the most creative solution would be to go with Android.

Posted via CB10

They don't need to "go back to BBOS" just bring back it's features.

The most creative solution would be to go with Android......for whom? How is that creative?

[redlightblinking]

Whatever these reasons are, never forget that BBOS is one main reason for it.

They don't actively market this BBOS, and have nearly left it behind. Their marketing (what little there is) is all BB10....so how is BBOS the "main reason" for BB's current situation? BBOS seems....according to the title of this thread.....is still their most popular phone!

BB10 was late to market. BB is slower than a turtle when it comes to putting out a product. BB has no idea how to differentiate itself, let alone communicate that difference. Not yet, at least.

[needforbbx]

What you are missing is the corporate customers. We are still required to purchase os7 as the pilot continues on the bb10. Should migrate soon.

[Velocitymj]

Also people who are still using OS7 after all this time in spite of newer more stable offerings might just be a tiny bit resistant to change.

I work with one of these people and my sister is also one of these people. She knows how OS7 works, doesn't want to learn another OS.

Posted via CB10

I was forced to make the switch from my Bold 9900 to a Q10. I would have bought another 9900 if they still made them.
I've gotten used to the gesturing on my Q10 and it's much better than when the Z10 first came out.
And there are a lot of nice features and fixes in 10.2, which convinced me to keep the phone.
But I was on my Bold the other day (after using my Q10 for two months) looking for something and OS 7 is such a breeze to use.. much faster and way more efficient than 10. PERIOD!
In one or two clicks in OS 7, you can accomplish the same tasks in less than 1/2 the time, of what it takes in OS10.
Try just hanging up the phone on 10 when your in another app and you can't. You have to gesture out of 10 and back to the phone page to do so.
OS 7, press the hang up button.
Try highlighting text to copy in OS10 and see how long that takes compared to using a track pad in OS7. Esp. getting the bubbles to work.
Sometimes it takes 3 or 4 times as long to edit a page than it does with a track pad.
Have a lot of contacts (I have over 600), good luck trying to find one (in OS10) for a specific job, esp. if you can't remember their name.

In OS 7, I had categories (essentially folders) for my contacts. Contractors that don't have a business name were categorized by trade and could easily be found. Same with suppliers with addresses readily seen for specific geographic locations.
Now OS10, unless I know their name or where the company is located, I can't find them in the phone.... Unless I want to scroll for an hour looking at each contact's details until I find the right one.
There are very good apps available to the business user in OS 7 that aren't available in 10.. Like Call Blocking.
I get hammered everyday by telemarketers... it's extremely annoying.... And in OS7 I had a couple of great apps that filtered those calls out.
In OS 7, you have selective sync; choosing specific files and photos that you want on your phone.
OS 10, it's syncing all or nothing.
And the list goes on..
With OS 7, I never had a need to come to Crackberry.. The phone did everything I needed it to do.
Now, I'm constantly coming here looking for info on updates in the hope of making my phone more efficient to use.. like it was in OS 7.
Blackberry, with OS 10, abandoned the business user and went for the iToy users.