[Dave Bourque]

IF they are converted. Who does this? The developer? The user? Does BBW have every single app that Itunes and Google play has? Get back to me when it does.

Lol... who does this ? the developer of course!!!!....

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[Dave Bourque]

It's the developers responsibility to cover all major platforms...

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[redlightblinking]

Downloading a apk off a website is difficult ?

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

Compared to what? Simply clicking an icon that takes you to the marketplace and then downloading your app, which gets automatic updates?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You keep framing the argument from the point of view that "our workaround isn't that hard". The problem is, the public will say: "You lost me at workaround".

[Dave Bourque]

Compared to what? Simply clicking an icon that takes you to the marketplace and then downloading your app, which gets automatic updates?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You keep framing the argument from the point of view that "our workaround isn't that hard". The problem is, the public will say: "You lost me at workaround".

When all options are exhausted when developers refuse to port their app to BlackBerry World. Tell me how BlackBerry can solve this problem. It's not magic.

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[redlightblinking]

Lol... who does this ? the developer of course!!!!....

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And there is the problem. Case closed.

Laugh all you want. People still aren't buying the car that they must hot-wire to drive to the store.

[Dave Bourque]

And there is the problem. Case closed.

Laugh all you want. People still aren't buying the car that they must hot-wire to drive to the store.

Case closed? Rofl. Guess what android users hot wire their ffing phones all the time... its called rooting...

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[GadgetTravel]

No it isn't. The app problem is not as bad as people say. Might be worse for some countries but in Canada all the banks and local apps are mostly here. The rest can sideloaded. Marketing is the real reason that this product isn't taking off.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

I dont think so. In the US, those apps are largely not present. Also, I can't run any Android apps on my Q10 as far as I know. Im not sideloading and I don't have a leak installed nor will I. Right now BB has not delivered to me, and I don't know when they will, if ever, a device that will let me go to the Google store and download any app and pay for it. Until that happens, there is hacking, but there is still an app gap - a vast one.

[redlightblinking]

When all options are exhausted when developers refuse to port their app to BlackBerry World. Tell me how BlackBerry can solve this problem. It's not magic.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

I don't have a magic solution. I'm simply explaining to you that your solution.......ISN'T.

Blackberry has to live with the fact that they squandered the opportunity for apps years ago. They might have to bribe Devs. They might have to go to each and every app dev. directly and offer to do it for them to give them more sales. They might have to crawl on their hands and knees through the trenches to get each app converted and in BBW....one.... by..... one.

[GadgetTravel]

Case closed? Rofl. Guess what android users hot wire their ffing phones all the time... its called rooting...

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Not to be able to run any apps they dont. They dont need to root to run most apps.

[Dave Bourque]

Not to be able to run any apps they dont. They dont need to root to run most apps.

No they have OS performance issues. That's why they root. For a smoother experience.

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[redlightblinking]

Case closed? Rofl. Guess what android users hot wire their ffing phones all the time... its called rooting...

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

They are not doing this to do a basic function like installing an app. CASED CLOSED.

And, Google is not promoting "rooting" as the way in which their phone will operate like every other phone. Iphones can be jailbreaked. So what? Has nothing to do with BBs app problem.

Again, laugh all you want to cover the obvious canyon in your argument, but the people have spoken, and the people are what BB needs. You can't tell your audience they are stupid and expect applause.

[southlander]

Same reason a large percentage or corporate PCs run Windows XP and Windows 7 even though Windows 8 has been out quite a while.

Change. Longer replacement cycles. Etc.

I mean really isn't the enterprise about the only market that's buying BlackBerrys in any significant quantity at this point?

And I agree about the cheaper BBOS handsets. Obviously lots of places in the world it's all about how cheaply one can use BBM.

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[GadgetTravel]

When all options are exhausted when developers refuse to port their app to BlackBerry World. Tell me how BlackBerry can solve this problem. It's not magic.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

What makes you think it is solvable? I think BB has been doomed since they were so slow to respond to the iPhone. The apps, ecosystems and customer preferences and habit developed without them from 2007 until this year. That is an eternity in this area. The only way they could possibly come back is some kind of dramatically different device, maybe one that read your mind or something. Short of that I think they are going to have a very difficult time surviving as they are now.

[GadgetTravel]

No they have OS performance issues. That's why they root. For a smoother experience.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

Very few root. And very few will sideload. The problem is that for BB you need to sideload for basic functions. You can use an Android phone perfectly well without rooting, I have done it and the majority of Android users do it every day.

[pantlesspenguin]

No they have OS performance issues. That's why they root. For a smoother experience.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

False. That may have been true around the Froyo/Gingerbread era, but not anymore. Now people mostly root to run different ROMs for a unique experience. But it has nothing to do with over clocking, lag fixes, etc anymore.

[Dave Bourque]

What makes you think it is solvable? I think BB has been doomed since they were so slow to respond to the iPhone. The apps, ecosystems and customer preferences and habit developed without them from 2007 until this year. That is an eternity in this area. The only way they could possibly come back is some kind of dramatically different device, maybe one that read your mind or something. Short of that I think they are going to have a very difficult time surviving as they are now.

Yes I do think it's solvable unlike everyone else here.

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[Dave Bourque]

False. That may have been true around the Froyo/Gingerbread era, but not anymore. Now people mostly root to run different ROMs for a unique experience. But it has nothing to do with over clocking, lag fixes, etc anymore.

I have friends that own nexus 4's, note 2s that specifically root because they aren't happy with lag that bogs down the OS. It's still a thing.

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[darkehawke]

The apk marketplace is BBW btw. Developers need to take all 5 mins of their time to convert the apk to bar.

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That hasn't happened so far and 10.2.1 has nothing to change that. Hence the need for an Apk market if BlackBerry are to utilise the update to its full potential

Posted via CB10

[redlightblinking]

What makes you think it is solvable? I think BB has been doomed since they were so slow to respond to the iPhone. The apps, ecosystems and customer preferences and habit developed without them from 2007 until this year. That is an eternity in this area. The only way they could possibly come back is some kind of dramatically different device, maybe one that read your mind or something. Short of that I think they are going to have a very difficult time surviving as they are now.

Actually, I disagree with that. They have an app problem and a legacy BB user problem.

If, eventually, they simply get access to the entire Android library somehow, this would be a major advancement. Suddenly one major problem is gone.

Then, they fix their current beta-test phones....uh, I mean BB10 phones, and bring back all the legacy features they left behind that is the subject of this thread.

Then, they decide to hire a marketing department that knows what they are doing, and tell the world what they did. (and price point the heck out of it).

The plan is actually simple. It's the ability to execute that is the question.

[bobauckland]

Same goes for me, but we should ignore our own preferences for a moment there.

99% of the market wants a phone that doesn't perform like a BBOS device...
It's a no-brainer, looking at BB10 as a business decision from BlackBerry,
to try to tap into that market.

Posted via CB10

I actually agree with you, sort of. A large percentage of people don't want bbos or anything like it. Except the minority that use it and love it.
The problem is, with bb10 not offering what bbos offered, you've got a phone that's basically an iphone or android knock off, with inferior ecosystem and specs, priced too high.
So android and ios users don't like it cos it's inferior, and BlackBerry users, minority though they might be, stick with legacy.
Which is a bad situation for BlackBerry. I'm not saying bbos was perfect. Or even that the solution was to keep chucking out bbos devices. But bb10 needed to offer a lot more bbos features to keep bbos users and attract ios/android users. By not doing that, they alienated bbos users and didn't really provide much to attract other users.

Posted via CB10

[Dave Bourque]

That hasn't happened so far and 10.2.1 has nothing to change that. Hence the need for an Apk market if BlackBerry are to utilise the update to its full potential

Posted via CB10

They have the opportunity to change that with Chen at the helm.... he knows the importance of software.

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[redlightblinking]

I have friends that own nexus 4's, note 2s that specifically root because they aren't happy with lag that bogs down the OS. It's still a thing.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

Great, but the argument wasn't if it was "a thing", it was is that a common thing. It is not.

[xanadome]

From battery pulls, an abysmal camera, to hour glassing...
BBOS is as unsuited for a modern smartphone as an OS ever could be.
At least 99% of the market seem to see it that way.

These are all true.
As I said, BBOS was nearing the end of life (and perhaps passed it). It's not that I do not understand these, and I am not arguing about it.
But I am discussing only in the context of the thread title, i.e., why does OS7 continue to outsell BB10?
When BBRY was hyping up the BB10, I was very much looking forward to updated (or modern) BB, that would naturally excel and replace my obsolete 9900.
When Q10 came out, I jumped on it and bought it. But sadly, I quickly found out that it was no BB, and returned it in 2 days, but with the expectation that I would revisit it when it is more polished. I think BBRY is rethinking the whole situation, and trying to listen to the market, which is a good sign.
What I think is, if I cut out the present moment, evaluated how I am using the mobile device, compared pros and cons between BBOS and BB10, I found that BBOS more appropriately suit my usage pattern and purposes. Based on this, I made a conscious decision to stick to the 9900 "for now", watching how BBRY's device strategy might evolve. I am in no rush.
I know what the iPhone is capable of (as I use it :-), but simply found that using the 9900 for a narrow and dedicated purpose, with the iPhone as a supplemental device, is a very efficient use of mobile/handheld device.
The 9900 is an old device, and I am keenly aware and afraid that sooner or later, it will really become obsolete and even "expire". But again, at this very moment, I decided it was more useful "for my usage pattern and the purpose".
For example, one of my banking apps offers a photo deposit capability, which I use often. The 9900 is totally useless for this purpose for the reasons you listed, and I have to bring out the iPhone for that. But I can juggle and manage these situations. OTOH, while iPhone is good for email, complete with a unified inbox and lock screen notification etc., it is still not as convenient as the 9900's management of the communications.
I do not consider a smartphone a do-all device (I used to). Once I came to this conclusion, fully knowing what the 9900 can and cannot do, I am very comfortable and my mind is at peace. At this very moment, pros of the 9900 have a slight edges over cons, or any other arrangement. That's what I am saying, and YMMV.
And I might also mention that I am eagerly awaiting for somewhat more complete and polished form of the Q10, be it hardware wise or software wise (perhaps both).
Having the iPhone, I have absolutely no reason to look beyond any other alternative device than a BB with convenient and time saving features and function I desire. Ideally, I do not have to carry around 2 devices, which is silly.
Sorry for a long gibberish ;-).

[Dave Bourque]

Actually, I disagree with that. They have an app problem and a legacy BB user problem.

If, eventually, they simply get access to the entire Android library somehow, this would be a major advancement. Suddenly one major problem is gone.

Then, they fix their current beta-test phones....uh, I mean BB10 phones, and bring back all the legacy features they left behind that is the subject of this thread.

Then, they decide to hire a marketing department that knows what they are doing, and tell the world what they did. (and price point the heck out of it).

The plan is actually simple. It's the ability to execute that is the question.

So the case isn't closed. There's still a opportunity for them to change that. BB10 is not a beta test phone... ffs

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[MarsupilamiX]

Downloading a apk off a website is difficult ?

Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.1803

It's somewhere between illegal and unsafe.
As long as BlackBerry doesn't find someone to partner with, like Amazon for example...
I don't see the APK solution as anything meaningful.

Today, I rather tend to think that the whole Android runtime actually was a mistake.
A distraction that consumed time, and at the same time doesn't encourage devs to make native apps.

But how this will play out, is something we have yet to witness.
Which is a polar opposite to BBOS', as we've already witnessed its decline.

Posted via CB10