12-26-16 11:04 AM
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  1. Alain_A's Avatar
    That's why there are pathways. So you don't have to walk through all of that.
    more often going through short cut make it faster to get there
    ominaxe likes this.
    12-15-16 12:01 AM
  2. Uzi's Avatar
    Well being RTOS has really not helped it much, and as it has been pointed out time and time again, background YouTube can be done in Android.

    Please, quit clutching at straws, its getting real silly.
    More productive play youtube in the background, tools not toys!
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    12-15-16 12:38 AM
  3. ohaiguise's Avatar
    Every bank looks at their own customer base and makes platform decisions accordingly. Some of us don't have many customers at all who use the Amazon app store.

    Some things for which Google play services are used are messaging infrastructure, better location services, app integrity validation.

    As you say, it is a trade off. You lose some customers when you commit to GPS. For us, this is a tiny number of affected customers and those customers can use our mobile web site instead. Natwest may have different numbers in their population.
    So let's say that all the banks use GPS to find locations of branches and cash machines. That's fine. But I'm happy to use the app just to check my transactions and do payments. Why therefore deny me all use of the app whatsoever just because you can't hook into Google's GPS, which is a feature I can live without anyway?

    Offer the APK on your website just like the Mozilla foundation does, with all the caveats.
    12-15-16 02:09 AM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    So let's say that all the banks use GPS to find locations of branches and cash machines. That's fine. But I'm happy to use the app just to check my transactions and do payments. Why therefore deny me all use of the app whatsoever just because you can't hook into Google's GPS, which is a feature I can live without anyway?

    Offer the APK on your website just like the Mozilla foundation does, with all the caveats.
    What about the integrity checks? or the messaging that we depend on for multi-factor authentication? These are critical security issues for us.

    Location, btw, is sometimes used (in a double blind test) as a factor in multi factor authentication or the approval of high value transactions. So it's not just about finding ATM's.

    The answer to your question is that if you take all those things away, you might as well just use the mobile website (from a risk or feature perspective). It doesn't make sense to make, test, and validate a different build of the app just for the tiny number of people who don't want to use the website, but also don't have access to GPS. For us, you're talking about less than 0.1% of our users worldwide.
    Uzi and Elephant_Canyon like this.
    12-15-16 08:16 AM
  5. anon(10096035)'s Avatar
    more often going through short cut make it faster to get there
    Or you can find the shortest path.
    12-15-16 10:03 AM
  6. Soulstream's Avatar
    So let's say that all the banks use GPS to find locations of branches and cash machines. That's fine. But I'm happy to use the app just to check my transactions and do payments. Why therefore deny me all use of the app whatsoever just because you can't hook into Google's GPS, which is a feature I can live without anyway?

    Offer the APK on your website just like the Mozilla foundation does, with all the caveats.
    because people like you are just too few to be worth the effort. The company I work for also had support for an Android app in the Amazon Store, but numbers were just too small compared to the Google Play version that it was not worth the developing/testing that version of the app. Instead we redirect them to the website that is very well done, but of course not as feature rich as the app.
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-15-16 10:15 AM
  7. ohaiguise's Avatar
    because people like you are just too few to be worth the effort
    I dare you to ask your company to publicly say that to my face (or any other customer's face).

    Thanks for the honesty though. I know from experience how many lazy and rude people there are in IT!
    12-15-16 10:25 AM
  8. CNX66's Avatar
    Android isn't bad. Millions love it. The Dteks and Priv are burdened with the BB name. Every other Android sells just fine.
    Maybe a stupid question but it burns on me; in the early BlackBerry days you had a positive attitude now most of your posts on CrackBerry are negative about BlackBerry. Of course that's your good right but why are you posting at CrackBerry?

    No offense just curious.
    12-15-16 10:29 AM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Maybe a stupid question but it burns on me; in the early BlackBerry days you had a positive attitude now most of your posts on CrackBerry are negative about BlackBerry. Of course that's your good right but why are you posting at CrackBerry?

    No offense just curious.
    I wouldn't call that post "negative" towards any entity.

    The BlackBerry name is toxic for a large subset of buyers.
    12-15-16 10:56 AM
  10. Soulstream's Avatar
    I dare you to ask your company to publicly say that to my face (or any other customer's face).

    Thanks for the honesty though. I know from experience how many lazy and rude people there are in IT!
    of course the company will never say this officially. They say it unofficially by not supporting the platform. But it is not due rudeness or laziness, it's just a pure numbers game. We actually put a lot of effort into our iOS and Android apps. When we had the app on both Google Play and the Amazon store, over 99% of the downloads came from Google Play.
    TgeekB likes this.
    12-15-16 12:38 PM
  11. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Overall, Android is not bad. A lot of good things like OS customizations and tight integration amongst the OS and Google Services (like them or hate them).

    The part I miss the most from BB10 is the gesture driven interface. I find it a lot more fluid then constantly having to hit buttons. BB10 is also very user friendly when mounted in the car while driving, again due to the gestures. Standalone Android auto should ease this.

    I had to send my DTEK in for warranty work this week, and I had to go back to my Z30. I can definitely feel a difference between the two devices. BB10 is becoming very antiquated. BB has put no time or money into evolving it and it definitely shows. Not that I was ever expecting them to.
    12-15-16 03:29 PM
  12. CNX66's Avatar
    I wouldn't call that post "negative" towards any entity.

    The BlackBerry name is toxic for a large subset of buyers.
    Sorry maybe I misread the posts from this crackberrian :-).
    12-15-16 11:19 PM
  13. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    More productive play youtube in the background, tools not toys!
    Even more so when I can play it in a small window while in another app.

    Indeed, only true tools and not toys can do that.
    Uzi and TgeekB like this.
    12-16-16 07:09 AM
  14. ohaiguise's Avatar
    of course the company will never say this officially. They say it unofficially by not supporting the platform. But it is not due rudeness or laziness, it's just a pure numbers game. We actually put a lot of effort into our iOS and Android apps. When we had the app on both Google Play and the Amazon store, over 99% of the downloads came from Google Play.

    Percentages don't always tell the whole story. If it's a huge company with hundreds of millions of downloads, 1% can represent several million customers, and I doubt that the effort to port an APK into Amazon's appstore needs so much effort that it's not worth doing for millions (or even hundreds of thousands) of potential customers.
    12-16-16 07:26 AM
  15. Soulstream's Avatar
    Percentages don't always tell the whole story. If it's a huge company with hundreds of millions of downloads, 1% can represent several million customers, and I doubt that the effort to port an APK into Amazon's appstore needs so much effort that it's not worth doing for millions (or even hundreds of thousands) of potential customers.
    As shown by most "big name" app developers (even those with 100 million downloads), developing or even porting an app for those under 1% is not worth it. As said by someone else, for the under 1% that is still using another OS there is always the website (of course the website does NOT have the latest features).

    We don't make decisions to stop supporting platforms out of the blue. We have internal numbers that, besides downloads, tell us users on what platforms actually use our apps and how much. Based on these numbers (and much more) decisions are made. The Amazon app store is not that popular because everyone in the western markets (where we do most of our business) is using Android with Google Play.
    12-16-16 07:43 AM
  16. b_martin89's Avatar
    Personally, I don't care for Android. Does that make it a bad OS? Absolutely not. I find BlackBerry 10 much better from personal experience. I don't need a lot of apps, the browser on my Classic handles everything I need (mostly Facebook and Reddit) just fine. The battery life is amazing, which I can't say about the Android phone I had, or my Android tablet.

    Android is a great mobile platform, it's just not for me.

    Posted via CB10
    berrydroid likes this.
    12-16-16 07:55 AM
  17. ohaiguise's Avatar
    (of course the website does NOT have the latest features).
    .

    The mobile sites? Sure.

    All of the big name apps are on Amazon. Its market share is growing and Amazon tablets outsell Android ones in the UK.

    If you want to lose out on potential business, that's your choice. Not one I would recommend though.
    12-16-16 08:05 AM
  18. Soulstream's Avatar
    The mobile sites? Sure.

    All of the big name apps are on Amazon. Its market share is growing and Amazon tablets outsell Android ones in the UK.

    If you want to lose out on potential business, that's your choice. Not one I would recommend though.
    Maybe other developers see other numbers for the Amazon Appstore. Ours were very low.

    Still being reliant the Amazon app-store for BB10 will not last much longer. At some point the minimum requirement Android OS version will increase past 4.3 on which the runtime is based on. Based on Google Android statistics, around 87% of active devices are on 4.4+ and that number can only increase (I estimate in about 1 year that number will reach 90% and in 2 years over 95%).
    12-16-16 08:12 AM
  19. ohaiguise's Avatar
    Maybe other developers see other numbers for the Amazon Appstore. Ours were very low.

    Still being reliant the Amazon app-store for BB10 will not last much longer. At some point the minimum requirement Android OS version will increase past 4.3 on which the runtime is based on. Based on Google Android statistics, around 87% of active devices are on 4.4+ and that number can only increase (I estimate in about 1 year that number will reach 90% and in 2 years over 95%).

    Yes, BB10's Android won't last much longer.

    However I'm still using Amazon Underground on Google-Android devices and will continue to do so (have to in order to use Amazon Prime Video, for example), and it offers free versions of certain apps and games. A lot of Google-Android users will be doing the same as Prime Video is quite popular.

    I've also used it to obtain older versions of apps when newer versions from Google Play caused issues and I had no way to roll back to the previous version. So Amazon's appstore will stay relevant long after BB10's runtime dies.

    And Amazon are flogging millions of cheap Fire tablets, the sales are increasing right now by something like 5000% compared to a year or two ago.
    12-16-16 08:47 AM
  20. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    The mobile sites? Sure.

    All of the big name apps are on Amazon. Its market share is growing and Amazon tablets outsell Android ones in the UK.

    If you want to lose out on potential business, that's your choice. Not one I would recommend though.
    Incorrect. "Some of the big name/top devs are on Amazon" is the correct statement.
    TgeekB and app_Developer like this.
    12-16-16 09:11 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Incorrect. "Some of the big name/top devs are on Amazon" is the correct statement.
    I'd go even farther to say that the Amazon appstore is where old apps go to die.
    12-16-16 09:13 AM
  22. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    I'd go even farther to say that the Amazon appstore is where old apps go to die.
    I might, but there's a few devs willing to spread the love with good apps.
    12-16-16 09:16 AM
  23. stlabrat's Avatar
    I would be willing to try BB10 OS. I just don't have the money for a decent BB10 phone that works on Verizon and it isn't too old.
    all bb10 phone are old. the last is PP? pick any except 1st gen of z10,you got the "experience"... if you pick up 9860, you got pre-z10 experience ;-) of OS7.
    12-16-16 12:22 PM
  24. JohnKCG's Avatar
    all bb10 phone are old. the last is PP? pick any except 1st gen of z10,you got the "experience"... if you pick up 9860, you got pre-z10 experience ;-) of OS7.
    I remember myself salivating for the Torch line back in the Day, later I bought the Z10 in a heartbeat via Amazon in 430 dollars, good days to be honest, and even then these good days still are there with My Z and Q, and for Android, is a necesary sin My friend, BlackBerry 10 failed, and when you fail you have to get up and keep the fighting with other ways, you can't fight back with a method that nearly killed you 3 years ago, and BlackBerry Android isn't that bad, for the contrary is good and I expect them to deliver a near "BlackBerry 10 experience" on Nougat, I Will quietly wait for Nougat to come for the Priv, and when it comes (probably june) the priv Will be at a price that no one can reject, and I expect them to success with the DTEK line, they have taken too much damage, that they, after 3 painful years, stil make phones is something that everyone here should be proud about

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-16 12:51 PM
  25. stlabrat's Avatar
    I remember myself salivating for the Torch line back in the Day, later I bought the Z10 in a heartbeat via Amazon in 430 dollars, good days to be honest, and even then these good days still are there with My Z and Q, and for Android, is a necesary sin My friend, BlackBerry 10 failed, and when you fail you have to get up and keep the fighting with other ways, you can't fight back with a method that nearly killed you 3 years ago, and BlackBerry Android isn't that bad, for the contrary is good and I expect them to deliver a near "BlackBerry 10 experience" on Nougat, I Will quietly wait for Nougat to come for the Priv, and when it comes (probably june) the priv Will be at a price that no one can reject, and I expect them to success with the DTEK line, they have taken too much damage, that they, after 3 painful years, stil make phones is something that everyone here should be proud about

    Posted via CB10
    near bb10 experience? you know Nougat is made by someone else... not BB... how could you made that experience it depend how good is the Nougat to start with... BB can only modified it to tailor to the security and UI, but can't change any droid bone structure. it is like a violin you were given by someone else, although you can make some good music of it if you are very skilled, but not going to be Stradivari... In addition, droid is intend to be modified (open source), the trade off would be leave some area allow to be customized, that means, you do not use some hardware look up table to speed up the stuff for example... you have to have some code that allow the user = 3rd party like BB or samsung, or sony to be insert their own customized UI or tasks - (more memory and slower for example), basically, you lost your choice of type of violin you want to use for specific music (note: few master of violin player got multiple violins for that reason)... you were given A violin, not customized for BB, but for majority of the droid 3rd party customer, including samsung, sony, etc. it tailored to largest user - mobile base, possibly, add some future IoT for google in the future, possibly, ad optimized... BB will give you what ever their best shot of using such a platform, but can not change what the platform provide (don't know if they have any input for google to change something prior to OS released. possibly not much based on the market share... the only meaningful change can be made is prior to release... for open source, once it is released, the cat is out of the bag... you work with what ever you get - like the violin you were given... hopefully, it is near Stradivari - don't think so since it is open source ).
    12-16-16 03:07 PM
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