05-08-16 08:06 PM
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  1. 21stNow's Avatar
    Fans of virtual keyboards say they are faster and more accurate. Faster, yes; more accurate - not from what I see online in blogs and news articles. There's been a dramatic increase in typos, word omissions and misuse or substitutions of common words. You can see that a lazy writer just flicked a word into a sentence when the sentence doesn't make any sense or a word is used in the wrong context.
    OK, you have a point here. The question that I have for you is how many people ever responded to blogs and news articles from phones with physical keyboards? When mobile physical keyboards were popular, there were far fewer blogs and comments sections on articles. There were also far fewer smartphone users in general.

    My point is that as more people respond to blogs from smartphones, the more errors you are going to see regardless of what kind of mobile keyboard they use.
    07-12-15 02:49 PM
  2. 21stNow's Avatar
    1. Check out the prior argument, i.e., physical keyboards give better tactical feedback, necessitating auto-correct fewer times. Of course, that's my hypothesis. You can probably get equally good tactile feedback on a homogeneous touch-screen by violating the laws of physics ;-).

    2. My post was edited to add more material and to make it less offensive. But, in general, you are right. I edit quite frequently because I care about what I write and how I express it.

    3. Take donnation's advice. Don't be so sensitive if someone criticizes your preferences, by showing an example as Exhibit A. He did type his post on a Z30, as he was honest enough to admit.


    Q10/10.3.1.2582
    1. I've addressed the lack of importance for tactile feedback for me on a phone's keyboard before. It does nothing to improve my accuracy and actually increases my frustration. Your username suggests that we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this, and I can respect that.

    2. You make the point that others have made, as well. If you care about the accuracy of your writing, you will post clean responses no matter which keyboard you use. Different people will be more accurate/spend less time making corrections with different keyboards.

    3. I've taken no offense at the comments here; this thread is actually quite interesting as the OP seems to be genuinely interested in the question and open to the fact that different people have different preferences. I've had similar thoughts as the OP in wondering if mobile keyboarding preference/ability depends on how a person learned to type in general or experience with the different types of keyboards.

    I just don't like projecting a personal experience and preference onto the rest of the population. I was wrong about Donnation's text input method, but correct that the mistake could have been made regardless of using a physical or virtual keyboard.
    Oshasat likes this.
    07-12-15 02:58 PM
  3. dbq10's Avatar
    Part of the problem is the changing nature of media. Traditional news sources have been slashing their staffs and getting rid of their experienced writers and editors. It seems like most of the proofreaders have lost their jobs and have been replaced by automated software.
    07-12-15 02:59 PM
  4. 21stNow's Avatar
    Part of the problem is the changing nature of media. Traditional news sources have been slashing their staffs and getting rid of their experienced writers and editors. It seems like most of the proofreaders have lost their jobs and have been replaced by automated software.
    Were you referring to the actual blog and news article content, the comments/responses or both? I wrote my response thinking that you were referring to the comments and responses sections. As far as actual content, I agree with what you said in the post that I quoted here.
    07-12-15 03:03 PM
  5. donnation's Avatar
    1. Check out the prior argument, i.e., physical keyboards give better tactical feedback, necessitating auto-correct fewer times. Of course, that's my hypothesis. You can probably get equally good tactile feedback on a homogeneous touch-screen by violating the laws of physics ;-).

    2. My post was edited to add more material and to make it less offensive. But, in general, you are right. I edit quite frequently because I care about what I write and how I express it.

    3. Take donnation's advice. Don't be so sensitive if someone criticizes your preferences, by showing an example as Exhibit A. He did type his post on a Z30, as he was honest enough to admit.


    Q10/10.3.1.2582
    The only thing I would question here is what does tactile feedback do to ensure that the proper key has been pressed? A button pressed is a button pressed, and the wrong key pressed will still register as tactile feedback.
    solitude1984 likes this.
    07-12-15 03:09 PM
  6. clickitykeys's Avatar
    I just don't like projecting a personal experience and preference onto the rest of the population.
    Really? You don't like it when a fraction of a percent of smartphone users exalt a physical keyboard? In a world where every Tom, **** and Harry uses a virtual keyboard, you don't like that an almost unrepresented minority is a little too enthusiastic about propagating our personal preferences?

    Well, that is just too bad. Grow a thicker skin, please.

    [Edit: Richard, I meant Richard :-)]

    Q10/10.3.2
    07-12-15 03:12 PM
  7. OTCHRussell's Avatar
    Not on SwiftKey that I can tell. Maybe there is a setting though. I'll look.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Long press = Caps on the Z10 and Z30.

    9000 > Q10 > Z10 >Z30>Z30>
    07-12-15 03:15 PM
  8. 21stNow's Avatar
    Really? You don't like it when a fraction of a percent of smartphone users exalt a physical keyboard? In a world where every Tom, **** and Harry uses a virtual keyboard, you don't like that an almost unrepresented minority is a little too enthusiastic about propagating our personal preferences?

    Well, that is just too bad. Grow a thicker skin, please.

    [Edit: Richard, I meant Richard :-)]

    Q10/10.3.2
    Yes, really, I don't like it. And my skin is fine the way that it is. Thicker skin would probably be harder to tattoo!
    07-12-15 03:16 PM
  9. OTCHRussell's Avatar
    The only thing I would question here is what does tactile feedback do to ensure that the proper key has been pressed? A button pressed is a button pressed, and the wrong key pressed will still register as tactile feedback.
    Yes, however, it is easier to put your finger between keys on a VKB. On a PKB you know you are on only one key.

    9000 > Q10 > Z10 >Z30>Z30>
    07-12-15 03:19 PM
  10. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The 1% PKB community started this argument wondering why the 99 % VKB community was not supportive.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 03:19 PM
  11. jas1978's Avatar
    The day that hologram phones come out people will see glass screen phones as outdated. Lol

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 03:22 PM
  12. 21stNow's Avatar
    The day that hologram phones come out people will see glass screen phones as outdated. Lol

    Posted via CB10
    I thought that this had already been done and it didn't catch on.
    07-12-15 03:26 PM
  13. ZedMacahan's Avatar
    I don't really care if it's considered old. The tactile advantage is great, going from nothing to a contact or a web page is so quick. Don't think that's possible with an all touch device. But off course all touch devices usually wins when it comes to screen estate, better for films and gaming etc.
    Oshasat likes this.
    07-12-15 03:37 PM
  14. clickitykeys's Avatar
    The only thing I would question here is what does tactile feedback do to ensure that the proper key has been pressed? A button pressed is a button pressed, and the wrong key pressed will still register as tactile feedback.
    Here is how I understand it. The keys are sculpted, and therefore non-uniform. Thus tactile feedback communicates to the brain, not only touching and clicking events, but also the spatial location of these events on the physical keyboard.

    The key point is that the feedback would not be as helpful without the sculpting of the keys and the physical frets supporting (and separating) them. Imagine a musician playing a guitar. Then, replace the strings and frets by a touch interface? How much would that suck? Or imagine a piano player with a virtual keyboard.

    I'm taking the analogy too far, but the goal is to reiterate that tactile feedback communicates not just "that" a key is pressed, but also "where" it is. These two inputs, combined with the mental map of the keyboard already existing in the brain, reduces the number of wrong key presses, which in turn reduces the number of times auto-correction is needed.

    This is precisely why the original Motorola Droid sucked even with a physical keyboard. It had little, if any, spatial feedback as the keys were just uniformly elevated squares. Subsequent Motorola Droids remedied this problem to an extent.

    My next phone will probably be an iPhone 6S or 7. I've used touchscreen android phones and have an iPad. But, typing on these devices is just something one does out of necessity. For me, it isn't half as much fun as typing on a Bold or Q10.


    Q10/10.3.2
    Oshasat and KingOfQwerty like this.
    07-12-15 03:40 PM
  15. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Fans of virtual keyboards say they are faster and more accurate. Faster, yes; more accurate - not from what I see online in blogs and news articles. There's been a dramatic increase in typos, word omissions and misuse or substitutions of common words. You can see that a lazy writer just flicked a word into a sentence when the sentence doesn't make any sense or a word is used in the wrong context.
    Funnily enough, the same was said way back when when pkbs held sway; people actually penned articles about how newer writers typing on BlackBerry devices was "ruining" journalism because of the errors and abbreviations. Hilarious.

    Nah, it ain't like typos are more because of vkbs. A person who makes mistakes on a vkb will probably not be conscientious enough to avoid making them on a pkb and elsewhere.

    Here is fact though: all the modern typing speed/typing records are done on vkbs.
    07-12-15 03:45 PM
  16. tkulthenoble's Avatar
    I'm using z30 coming from old torch 9800. I think PKB is better. Piers Morgan still using BlackBerry cuz of the PKB he said he can never type on a glass.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 03:47 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Here is how I understand it. The keys are sculpted, and therefore non-uniform. Thus tactile feedback communicates to the brain, not only touching and clicking events, but also the spatial location of these events on the physical keyboard.

    The key point is that the feedback would not be as helpful without the sculpting of the keys and the physical frets supporting (and separating) them. Imagine a musician playing a guitar. Then, replace the strings and frets by a touch interface? How much would that suck? Or imagine a piano player with a virtual keyboard.

    I'm taking the analogy too far, but the goal is to reiterate that tactile feedback communicates not just "that" a key is pressed, but also "where" it is. These two inputs, combined with the mental map of the keyboard already existing in the brain, reduces the number of wrong key presses, which in turn reduces the number of times auto-correction is needed.

    This is precisely why the original Motorola Droid sucked even with a physical keyboard. It had little, if any, spatial feedback as the keys were just uniformly elevated squares. Subsequent Motorola Droids remedied this problem to an extent.

    My next phone will probably be an iPhone 6S or 7. I've used touchscreen android phones and have an iPad. But, typing on these devices is just something one does out of necessity. For me, it isn't half as much fun as typing on a Bold or Q10.


    Q10/10.3.2
    I will readily say this: I was quite proficient with a physical keyboard, so much so that the thought of not using one gave me jitters. Swipe typing was the only way I was able to give vkbs a try, and I now I wouldn't return to a pkb if I had the choice.

    Anyone who knows me from my early CB days would be surprised LOL.

    In the end, choice rules.
    07-12-15 03:49 PM
  18. RyanGermann's Avatar
    People film movies on iOS devices, but edit them on desktop computers.

    Is there a record of a well known book being written on an iPhone? There are many anecdotes about books being written on BBOS devices having PKBs.

    In the end, choice rules.
    SLIDER!
    07-12-15 03:53 PM
  19. CTU2fan's Avatar
    The learning curve argument falls flat. PKBs have a learning curve as well, and not just on phones. Anyone certified to type high WPM speeds on a full size keyboard knows that **** didn't just come naturally. Saying "all in a quest to become as proficient as you already are on your PKB." is ignoring the fact that to already be proficient on your PKB just means you already overcame the learning curve.
    The point is, if I already type quickly and accurately on a PKB, switching to VKB is a new skill to master. Sure, if I was 13 and getting my first phone I'd be learning to type regardless, and I think that's the main reason VKB dominates. People are learning to type on them without ever touching a PKB device. Going back to the OP, I'd have to agree that PKB are "old school" in the sense that new smartphone users are pretty much universally ignoring them.

    The only reason I might be tempted to mess around with a VKB again is the lure of a larger screen, but hopefully the slider fills that need without the sacrifice.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 04:03 PM
  20. Oshasat's Avatar
    Interesting and intelligent replies all around, but the question is why, in a world of possibilities, we end up with such a near-universal adoption of one standard (slabs). Why so few phones are sold that have PKBs remains a mystery to me, and I've lived through my share of fads. Look, there are still cars with manual transmissions, pants other than jeans, and ketchup brands other than Heinz, but why is there essentially only one brand of phones with PKBs?

    Let's think of CDs vs. vinyl and downloads for a moment. With the introduction of CDs in the 1980s, vinyl basically died by the late 80s and early 90s, but there was still a greater than 1% user base for the medium, and today new vinyl sales are almost 4% of all music sales (2014), a 52% increase. Not much, but it's many times more than the number of PKB phones sold!

    So, even if it were true that all phones with VKBs were 'obviously' superior, logic and market forces would dictate that there would surely be more than the present fewer than 1% or so who cling to their preference -- just enough so that there remains some thin veneer of choice other than glass slabs.

    Posted via CB10
    DragonMama likes this.
    07-12-15 04:32 PM
  21. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Interesting and intelligent replies all around, but the question of why, in a world of possibilities, we end up with such a near-universal adoption of one standard (slabs). Why so few phones are sold that have PKBs remains a mystery to me, and I've lived through my share of fads. Look, there are still cars with manual transmissions, pants other than jeans, and ketchup brands other than Heinz, but why is there essentially only one brand of phones with PKBs?

    Let's think of CDs vs. vinyl and downloads for a moment. With the introduction of CDs in the 1980s, vinyl basically died by the late 80s and early 90s, but there was still a greater than 1% user base for the medium, and today new vinyl sales are almost 4% of all music sales (2014), a 52% increase. Not much, but it's many times more than the number of PKB phones sold!

    So, even if it were true that all phones with VKBs were 'obviously' superior, logic and market forces would dictate that there would surely be more than the present fewer than 1% or so who cling to their preference -- just enough so that there remains some thin veneer of choice other than glass slabs.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes, I agree with you.

    BB10 and square screens are preventing PKB's from reaching their 4 % market space potential.

    Posted via CB10
    DragonMama likes this.
    07-12-15 04:37 PM
  22. Oshasat's Avatar
    Yes, I agree with you.

    BB10 and square screens are preventing PKB's from reaching their 4 % market space potential.

    Posted via CB10
    You jest, but I'd sooner see 4% market penetration than the 0.05% or so that someone said we currently have.


    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 04:41 PM
  23. jas1978's Avatar
    Yes, I agree with you.

    BB10 and square screens are preventing PKB's from reaching their 4 % market space potential.

    Posted via CB10
    I guess that's why BlackBerry is betting on the Slider running Android and a full size screen and a keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 04:48 PM
  24. ZedMacahan's Avatar
    So I guess market share is important. I had a Nokia N900 (still have actually) with a slider keyboard and it was great. My iPhone friends had no chance when it came to locating and dialing a friend if time was a factor. Unfortunately this kind of devices disappeared when Nokia sold out( blackberry still around though). That's one of the reasons I hope for the new slider from BB.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 04:53 PM
  25. CTU2fan's Avatar
    Interesting and intelligent replies all around, but the question is why, in a world of possibilities, we end up with such a near-universal adoption of one standard (slabs). Why so few phones are sold that have PKBs remains a mystery to me, and I've lived through my share of fads. Look, there are still cars with manual transmissions, pants other than jeans, and ketchup brands other than Heinz, but why is there essentially only one brand of phones with PKBs?

    Let's think of CDs vs. vinyl and downloads for a moment. With the introduction of CDs in the 1980s, vinyl basically died by the late 80s and early 90s, but there was still a greater than 1% user base for the medium, and today new vinyl sales are almost 4% of all music sales (2014), a 52% increase. Not much, but it's many times more than the number of PKB phones sold!

    So, even if it were true that all phones with VKBs were 'obviously' superior, logic and market forces would dictate that there would surely be more than the present fewer than 1% or so who cling to their preference -- just enough so that there remains some thin veneer of choice other than glass slabs.

    Posted via CB10
    Well, some reasons.

    1. Apple has a big chunk of the market, and they'll never make a PKB device. If they ever did they'd move that needle up a few ticks I'm sure.

    2. Android manufacturers aren't making PKB devices anymore either. Samsung made some low quality junk sliders en masse that kind of put a bad reputation on that form factor, and the various "candybar style" PKB Androids were also pretty basic.

    3. Like with BlackBerry now, the carriers don't stock them. So if you do like most and walk into your carrier's nearest shop for an upgrade, you'll have your choice of the latest Apple, Samsung, LG, and HTC devices. All identical full touch slabs. Oh and maybe a few 10-key feature phones. PKB won't be an option, and if you were considering one the pushy sales guy would do his best to sell you on something full touch (and more expensive).

    All of those are market driven, but it becomes a chicken-and-egg thing at some point. No chance that PKB devices will ever outsell the slabs, but if Apple and Samsung (or maybe LG) built a flagship PKB device (probably a slider) you'd definitely see that 1% number rise.

    Posted via CB10
    DragonMama likes this.
    07-12-15 05:04 PM
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