[bbranny]

haven't the market already proved that physical keyboard phone doesn't sell well? why the hell would BBRY basically came out with 3 keyboard phone ( q10, q5 and os7 phone) and 1 touch screen (z10)?I don't count the A10 or wutever, because it is not out yet or ever be out, the fact is there is only one touch screen now. If they were smart they would either just have the q5 or the q10, not both and including another os7 phone. if you think this quarter is bad, wait until next one when no one buy any of the headsets.

[travaz]

Because Thor said so!

[Roo Zilla]

BBRY seems to think the keyboard is a competitive advantage. I don't see it, but if the big brains at BBRY say that's the way it is, I guess they must be right.

[Asmooh]

The q10 sells more than z10 at the moment.

But BlackBerry needs z5 and a10 also
Slider? I don't think it will sell that much.


Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone using CB10

[greenberry666]

Maybe they thought all the kids were using curves because of the keyboards. They weren't. They were using them because they cost 120 and had BBM.

Posted via CB10

[bbranny]

The q10 sells more than z10 at the moment.

But BlackBerry needs z5 and a10 also
Slider? I don't think it will sell that much.


Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone using CB10

link? on q10 sellin more than z10

[hootyhoo]

Maybe they thought all the kids were using curves because of the keyboards. They weren't. They were using them because they cost 120 and had BBM.

Posted via CB10

Exactly. That market has now been lost to BB and likely is gone for good. That demographic is now using touch screens with SnapChat, instagram, whatsapp, etc.

[Roo Zilla]

link? on q10 sellin more than z10

He's probably right.... I mean, who's buying Z10 nowadays? At least the Q is new and the keyboard holdouts are probably buying them now. Once the keyboard holdouts are done buying, who knows how the dust will settle and whether the Q will continue to outsell the Z.

Here's the problem though. The market for slate phones is many degrees greater than the market for keyboard phones. We're talking almost a billion units compared (estimate over 900 million) to low tens of millions of units per year. Even if you dominate the keyboard phone market... it's only a small part of the overall smartphone market. Basically, big fish in a small pond that's on an island surrounded by the ocean that is the market for smartphones.

What all that means is that unless you make a splash with the slate phone, you're relegated to the pond.

[GadgetTravel]

I more or less agree. I bought a Q10 to use the keyboard for email and messaging. I wouldn't have considered buying a touch screen BB. I should add I also have an iPhone 5. I think the market for devices with keyboards is limited, but it is there and BB can own it. Touchscreen not so much I think.

[jjs6w]

I think the keyboard phones will sell more than touch because keyboards are the reason people buy BBRY. It's a smaller market than touch but it is a market BBRY can easily own. This will help the BB10 device count which will help improve the BB10 app ecosystem. With a good app ecosystem, there is little difference between the touchscreen devices and the Z10 will become the breadwinner for BBRY.

[TgeekB]

I think the keyboard phones will sell more than touch because keyboards are the reason people buy BBRY. It's a smaller market than touch but it is a market BBRY can easily own. This will help the BB10 device count which will help improve the BB10 app ecosystem. With a good app ecosystem, there is little difference between the touchscreen devices and the Z10 will become the breadwinner for BBRY.

I'm not sure selling a lot of Q10's (Diehard blackberry fans mostly) will convince app developers that blackberry is on the rise. It won't pull people from iPhone or Android so nothing will have changed.

[SK122387]

Why does BlackBerry think the Q5 and Q10 will sell well?

Because they have 72 million something users, using mainly full qwerty keyboards, maybe?

Except for the Storm, Torch 9850/60, and Curve 9380, BlackBerry built their empire selling qwerty devices (and BES too, but I'm talking hardware). The problems with old qwerty devices was the sluggishness over time, and the "outdated" operating system. BB10 is now on par or ahead of Android and iOS in most/all areas, so that plus the keyboard.. it's a pretty nice package.

Even BlackBerry "haters" can't argue that BlackBerry makes the best physical keyboard. No one else even comes close. When you see people with 2 phones, it's usually a BlackBerry and an iPhone or a BlackBerry and an Android. People can count on BlackBerry being the best at messaging, and a lot of that has to do with it having the best keyboard around.

So that's why one might go out on a limb and say the Q5/10 will well sell...

[TgeekB]

Your history is very true but that's betting that some of those people haven't moved on. It is a very small number that still want a physical keyboard and less screen space.

[JR A]

Because Thor said so!

No...

[ColdFistOfTruth]

We ordered a bunch of Q10s when they hit AT&T and VZW to offer them to our BBOS users. (Forget market research, you need to learn what YOUR constituents want). We really expected them to be happy with them: keyboard, keyboard, keyboard!

But we were stunned to find indifference. We ended up with less than 9% of our BBOS users converting to Q10s. I've mentioned this before on other threads but BBOS to BB10 is NOT a 1 for 1 transition and users picked up on this. Over 90% made the value judgement that what they valued in a Blackberry in the past wasn't as valuable to them as the ecosystems with other phones.

I think BBRY is now in a tricky position. They CANNOT live in the past and have done a commendable job moving on. BUT, the future isn't as palatable to regular users as they (and others like ourselves) had expected.

So it's hard to predict how well sales are going to go. If they are fighting a losing battle selling their bread and butter (QWERTY phones) into their traditional sweet spot (business users) then a serious red flag is raised.

We're a US company so I'm not sure this bodes well for sell-in to businesses that give users a choice of platform. So I'm not convinced the Q series is going to be the big seller we all (BBRY included) expected. We'll have to wait and see, but I have a bad feeling about this...

-CFOT

[SK122387]

Your history is very true but that's betting that some of those people haven't moved on. It is a very small number that still want a physical keyboard and less screen space.

I hate to use a clich�, but "history repeats itself."

We don't know that only a "very small number of people want a physical keyboard and less screen space." We know that many people who had a keyboard and a small screen moved on, likely because the OS and features weren't competitive with iPhone and Android. They got used to the bigger screen, and got used to typing on glass. And of course there will be people who will never give up having a giant screen.

But there are probably plenty of BlackBerry users who just sucked it up, and dealt with the onscreen keyboard of iPhone and Android, because the rest of the operating system was so appealing.

Well now BlackBerry has an operating system that's on that level of iOS and Android. Are the apps on that level? No. But just like people gave up a physical keyboard to gain the experience of the Android/iOS experience, there are certainly people who will give up having apps in favor of a new operating system and that keyboard they can really type on. Some of these people are here in these forums, and have talked about the sacrifices they were willing to make to finally have a BlackBerry with a "real OS" and the best keyboard there is.

In time, apps can be developed for a device...sorry Apple, there's no app that creates a physical keyboard on an iPhone, and there's a reason why so many alternative keyboards can be downloaded on Android phones.

[boys_inter]

Considering BlackBerry is essentially the only, and stand out creator of a smartphone with a keyboard, they own that market, whether it be small or not. They don't necessarily have to create only keyboard phones, but they should continue to produce keyboard phones to a certain extent, because that is what keeps a chunk of their users on board.

The reason BlackBerry seems to be fluttering a bit at the moment, is in no way related to the fact that they created a BlackBerry with a keyboard. Instead it can be nailed down to execution, marketing amongst other business related factors.

So in short, the Q10 and Q5 may not sell a lot, but it is what keeps a certain group of BlackBerry users onboard, and in my opinion, id rather have some than none.

[BBThemes]

We ordered a bunch of Q10s when they hit AT&T and VZW to offer them to our BBOS users. (Forget market research, you need to learn what YOUR constituents want). We really expected them to be happy with them: keyboard, keyboard, keyboard!

But we were stunned to find indifference. We ended up with less than 9% of our BBOS users converting to Q10s. I've mentioned this before on other threads but BBOS to BB10 is NOT a 1 for 1 transition and users picked up on this. Over 90% made the value judgement that what they valued in a Blackberry in the past wasn't as valuable to them as the ecosystems with other phones.

I think BBRY is now in a tricky position. They CANNOT live in the past and have done a commendable job moving on. BUT, the future isn't as palatable to regular users as they (and others like ourselves) had expected.

So it's hard to predict how well sales are going to go. If they are fighting a losing battle selling their bread and butter (QWERTY phones) into their traditional sweet spot (business users) then a serious red flag is raised.

We're a US company so I'm not sure this bodes well for sell-in to businesses that give users a choice of platform. So I'm not convinced the Q series is going to be the big seller we all (BBRY included) expected. We'll have to wait and see, but I have a bad feeling about this...

-CFOT

I think you`ve highlighted the real issue here. the OS. while its decent at what it can do, its what it doesn't do that's the problem, or to be more correct for your situation, what it doesn't do compared to BBOS.
I know I for one was disappointed when I got a Z10 and found half of the features I used to use in BBOS were either watered down or straight out missing. Its the features not the keyboard that kept people on BBOS, surely people should of seen that when other platforms tried keyboards, features can rule your choices. Sadly I don't think 10.2 will be enough to sort the lack of feature parity to BBOS let alone any other OS.
Then look at the Q5 which in the UK is priced the same as the huawei P6:
Q5 has dual core 1.2ghz, P6 is 1.5 Quad core
Q5 has 3.1" screen, P6 is 4.7" touchscreen
Q5 has 5mp and 2mp cameras front and back respectively, P6 has 8 and 5.

Sadly for the same price point (�21 a month from carphonewarehouse in the uk) I know where a lot of people would go.

[TgeekB]

I hate to use a clich�, but "history repeats itself."

We don't know that only a "very small number of people want a physical keyboard and less screen space." We know that many people who had a keyboard and a small screen moved on, likely because the OS and features weren't competitive with iPhone and Android. They got used to the bigger screen, and got used to typing on glass. And of course there will be people who will never give up having a giant screen.

But there are probably plenty of BlackBerry users who just sucked it up, and dealt with the onscreen keyboard of iPhone and Android, because the rest of the operating system was so appealing.

Well now BlackBerry has an operating system that's on that level of iOS and Android. Are the apps on that level? No. But just like people gave up a physical keyboard to gain the experience of the Android/iOS experience, there are certainly people who will give up having apps in favor of a new operating system and that keyboard they can really type on. Some of these people are here in these forums, and have talked about the sacrifices they were willing to make to finally have a BlackBerry with a "real OS" and the best keyboard there is.

In time, apps can be developed for a device...sorry Apple, there's no app that creates a physical keyboard on an iPhone, and there's a reason why so many alternative keyboards can be downloaded on Android phones.

While I admire your positive outlook, I don't entirely agree. In fact, if history repeats itself, then blackberry will continue to lose market share as it has over the last few years. Their new OS does not put them on the same level as their competitors, who continue to innovate. The market has changed and I don't see them keeping up. The second and third quarters will tell the story.

[drdata1967]

Maybe they thought all the kids were using curves because of the keyboards. They weren't. They were using them because they cost 120 and had BBM.

Long time reader , just created an account for this thread . There will always be people who feel that a tactile keyboard is useful. I meet people every day who have not gone to iOS because they are uncomfortable using a touch screen. I'm not saying that this is enough to bring the BB 10 keyboard to profitability, nor in my opinion will it be profitable in the long run, but I believe there is a market for people who don't use touch screens, and I would bet ( or hope) that RIM did a good deal of consumer & business research into the matter before they moved forward .


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[jcarlos100]

Long time reader , just created an account for this thread . There will always be people who feel that a tactile keyboard is useful. I meet people every day who have not gone to iOS because they are uncomfortable using a touch screen. I'm not saying that this is enough to bring the BB 10 keyboard to profitability, nor in my opinion will it be profitable in the long run, but I believe there is a market for people who don't use touch screens, and I would bet ( or hope) that RIM did a good deal of consumer & business research into the matter before they moved forward .


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

Welcome! And I also believe in what u believe too

Posted via CB10

[bbranny]

Why does BlackBerry think the Q5 and Q10 will sell well?

Because they have 72 million something users, using mainly full qwerty keyboards, maybe?

Except for the Storm, Torch 9850/60, and Curve 9380, BlackBerry built their empire selling qwerty devices (and BES too, but I'm talking hardware). The problems with old qwerty devices was the sluggishness over time, and the "outdated" operating system. BB10 is now on par or ahead of Android and iOS in most/all areas, so that plus the keyboard.. it's a pretty nice package.

Even BlackBerry "haters" can't argue that BlackBerry makes the best physical keyboard. No one else even comes close. When you see people with 2 phones, it's usually a BlackBerry and an iPhone or a BlackBerry and an Android. People can count on BlackBerry being the best at messaging, and a lot of that has to do with it having the best keyboard around.

So that's why one might go out on a limb and say the Q5/10 will well sell...

and i supposed you think because 72m user are using BB keyboard that means it will be successful? if thats your argument, tell me how many full screen phone android and iphone sold. which direction you think they should be going? how many subscription bb lost last quarter?

yea, they make the best keyboard phone,but too bad no one cares about keyboard phone. How many of those 72m will continue to use it and actually buy a premium device? last i heard most BB07 keyboard device sold were budget device. You think ppl care what brand is it or if it got a keyboard? they only buyin it cause its inexpensive.

[RECOOL]

I have no idea its another tough battle.

[triplekia]

I heard it's because keyboard phone is so rare in sight, it makes you look different than usual smartphone user.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

We ordered a bunch of Q10s when they hit AT&T and VZW to offer them to our BBOS users. (Forget market research, you need to learn what YOUR constituents want). We really expected them to be happy with them: keyboard, keyboard, keyboard!

But we were stunned to find indifference. We ended up with less than 9% of our BBOS users converting to Q10s. I've mentioned this before on other threads but BBOS to BB10 is NOT a 1 for 1 transition and users picked up on this. Over 90% made the value judgement that what they valued in a Blackberry in the past wasn't as valuable to them as the ecosystems with other phones.

I think BBRY is now in a tricky position. They CANNOT live in the past and have done a commendable job moving on. BUT, the future isn't as palatable to regular users as they (and others like ourselves) had expected.

So it's hard to predict how well sales are going to go. If they are fighting a losing battle selling their bread and butter (QWERTY phones) into their traditional sweet spot (business users) then a serious red flag is raised.

We're a US company so I'm not sure this bodes well for sell-in to businesses that give users a choice of platform. So I'm not convinced the Q series is going to be the big seller we all (BBRY included) expected. We'll have to wait and see, but I have a bad feeling about this...

-CFOT

Very interesting post . The 9% conversion rate. What did the 91% do ? Where did they go ?