[nimra]

What about removable batteries - in spy movies one can see people taking out sim cards and batteries to not being spyed or listend in or out in conversations...

Those removable batteries have vanished more and more...

Posted via CB10

[cbvinh]

Oh, so you really didn't want anyone to answer?

The answer to the question posed is the same answer as to why Nokia's and BlackBerry's were cloned: They were successful...

[early2bed]

Those removable batteries have vanished more and more...

Is it because smartphone makers didn't want to include them even though customers wanted them? Or is it more likely that customers chose the thinner devices and increases battery capacity?

[stlabrat]

Is it because smartphone makers didn't want to include them even though customers wanted them? Or is it more likely that customers chose the thinner devices and increases battery capacity?

because those cheapy guys buy counterfeit battery in hongkong... cause fault in device level (faked battery with no power manager scheme that matches with the design intend). the extra weight of package resulted slightly inferior function per weight (one of the performance matrix judge of the efficient of design). some of the fake battery also got tolerance problem, resulted intermittent fault of the device... etc. etc. build in battery eliminated all those problems... (apple never allow replacement battery by customer, smart move... but you got stuck with limited device life due to battery life limitation... so far, ipod battery life is very good, not sure about iphone. if you run "hot" battery all the time, the battery life not going to be good... again, you need hardware/software integration in order to optimize this... hopefully, pixel and iphone will do better - may be bb10 if bb decide to stay in the game...).

[cbvinh]

because those cheapy guys buy counterfeit battery in hongkong... cause fault in device level (faked battery with no power manager scheme that matches with the design intend). the extra weight of package resulted slightly inferior function per weight (one of the performance matrix judge of the efficient of design). some of the fake battery also got tolerance problem, resulted intermittent fault of the device... etc. etc. build in battery eliminated all those problems... (apple never allow replacement battery by customer, smart move... but you got stuck with limited device life due to battery life limitation... so far, ipod battery life is very good, not sure about iphone. if you run "hot" battery all the time, the battery life not going to be good... again, you need hardware/software integration in order to optimize this... hopefully, pixel and iphone will do better - may be bb10 if bb decide to stay in the game...).

I use these third party batteries for cameras and phones without any trouble so far. Further, some of these third parties provide higher capacity batteries which the OEM doesn't provide. Have you had these performance issues with third party batteries from experience? Or is this speculation?

[early2bed]

It's not like you can never replace a non-removable battery. You can drop your iPhone off and have the battery replaced within an hour. It's not like you have to throw it away when the battery won't take a charge.

[stlabrat]

I use these third party batteries for cameras and phones without any trouble so far. Further, some of these third parties provide higher capacity batteries which the OEM doesn't provide. Have you had these performance issues with third party batteries from experience? Or is this speculation?

well known and well documented in the field. it is got less since removable battery start fade 3 years ago...
Counterfeit Phones are Full of Surprising Dangers | PCMag.com
Danger: Why You Shouldn?t Buy Cheap Third-Party Batteries For Laptops or Smartphones
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-fake-mo...argers-explode
Knockoff cell phone batteries prone to catch fire or explode, senator warns - TechSpot

[stlabrat]

It's not like you can never replace a non-removable battery. You can drop your iPhone off and have the battery replaced within an hour. It's not like you have to throw it away when the battery won't take a charge.

hopefully, the certified repair house? use OEM parts? one hour, very nice. (not that busy in the shop? must be $).

[cbvinh]

well known and well documented in the field. it is got less since removable battery start fade 3 years ago...
Counterfeit Phones are Full of Surprising Dangers | PCMag.com
Danger: Why You Shouldn?t Buy Cheap Third-Party Batteries For Laptops or Smartphones
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-fake-mo...argers-explode
Knockoff cell phone batteries prone to catch fire or explode, senator warns - TechSpot

Did you bother to read the articles you cited? Further, you didn't answer my question. Do you have experience with third party batteries are you basing it just on articles, some you lend credence to, some you don't?

PCMag:

It's first and foremost an article on counterfeit phones. For batteries in counterfeit phones, it has this to say:

"Here's some good news. Despite deliberate overloading, none of the devices overheated. None even went beyond established thermal limits. O'Brien pointed out that typically the fake devices have substandard, weak radio components. There's a good chance these components just couldn't draw enough power to overheat. How ironic!"

So, in counterfeit phones, the batteries aren't even taxed enough to cause problems.

HTG: Danger: Why You Shouldn't...

"In 2013, a Samsung Galaxy S3 exploded in an 18-year-old girl’s pants pocket, giving her third-degree burns. An investigation revealed that the battery inside the Galaxy S3 wasn’t the original battery, but was a knock-off battery — a counterfeit battery that even had the Samsung logo on it. It’s not hard to find other reports of smartphone batteries exploding and injuring people or burning down buildings, and it’s usually not clear whether an aftermarket battery is to blame.

This doesn’t just apply to third-party batteries purchased from disreputable businesses. In June, 2013, Best Buy recalled over 5000 third-party MacBook batteries created by “ATG.’ According to the US Consumer Product Safety Commission, “The firm has received 13 reports that the battery caught fire, including one report of a serious burn to a consumer’s leg.”"

So official batteries aren't necessarily better. The article goes on to say that it's generally safer, but makes no guarantees.

Quora:

Link isn't even an article or analysis. Just what someone wrote in a sentence.

TechSpot:

No analysis or testing. Just a senator's warning to the public.

"Consumer Product Safety Commission recommends replacing cell phone batteries with those that are recommended by the handset’s manufacturer or those sold from wireless carriers."

Wireless carriers sell third party batteries too...

[nimra]

But what about if you don't want to spyed at your conversations and therefore want the batterie removed...?

...not for buyning a cheaper one...

Isn't it more secure to remove it?

Posted via CB10

[sonicpix]

I tend to think most phones look the same. Which is a shame. Innovative designs don't sell. It's about appealing to the most people possible and to do that, you have to be bland.

Posted via CB10

[stlabrat]

Did you bother to read the articles you cited? Further, you didn't answer my question. Do you have experience with third party batteries are you basing it just on articles, some you lend credence to, some you don't?

.

yes in short. on "how to differentiate from the fake to the real one"... let's just say third party compatible battery are not consider bad, only counterfeit... the one that pretend to be real (OEM) battery-using label and brand name illegally, sell it at knockout price and "form, fit, but functionally deficient - no power managerment,, or insufficient power management", even lack of safety vent. consider yourself lucky, if the one you have just a bit of lack of performance - either by life,or heat up a bit more... compare to the real thing ;-). the bad parts are out there... just like Counterfeit threat-for-electronics-industry-on-rise-plug-it
buy from the good source - like your carrier, not on asia small shop with one counter facing street... or some of the website... if the real stuff official price is 20 dollar, what you think the guy sitting in asia can make it 5.99? and mail you for free?

[cbvinh]

yes in short. on "how to differentiate from the fake to the real one"... let's just say third party compatible battery are not consider bad, only counterfeit... the one that pretend to be real (OEM) battery-using label and brand name illegally, sell it at knockout price and "form, fit, but functionally deficient - no power managerment,, or insufficient power management", even lack of safety vent. consider yourself lucky, if the one you have just a bit of lack of performance - either by life,or heat up a bit more... compare to the real thing ;-). the bad parts are out there... just like Counterfeit threat-for-electronics-industry-on-rise-plug-it
buy from the good source - like your carrier, not on asia small shop with one counter facing street... or some of the website... if the real stuff official price is 20 dollar, what you think the guy sitting in asia can make it 5.99? and mail you for free?

Counterfeit would be a part that tries to sell itself as the original in branding. Third party is one made by someone other than the original manufacturer, but can be worse, good-as, or even better than the original. These articles blend the definition, specifying only the original is worth buying.

As for cost, did you know that some brand-name jeans are made for $0.99/each and sold for $100? So, yeah, it's possible to find something much cheaper than the original for less without getting the brand labeling.

[cgk]

But what about if you don't want to spyed at your conversations and therefore want the batterie removed...?

...not for buyning a cheaper one...

Isn't it more secure to remove it?

Posted via CB10

If an individual is worried that the security services are monitoring their phone conversations - it's likely they have one of two problems - a) You are in ISIS, b) you have mental health issues.

[ardakca]

If an individual is worried that the security services are monitoring their phone conversations - it's likely they have one of two problems - a) You are in ISIS, b) you have mental health issues.

I think he meant foreign intelligence agencies. But there should be better options for people carrying valuable information other than removable batteries

[stlabrat]

Counterfeit would be a part that tries to sell itself as the original in branding. Third party is one made by someone other than the original manufacturer, but can be worse, good-as, or even better than the original. These articles blend the definition, specifying only the original is worth buying.

As for cost, did you know that some brand-name jeans are made for $0.99/each and sold for $100? So, yeah, it's possible to find something much cheaper than the original for less without getting the brand labeling.

make money were the main focus of the counterfeit: as for battery, take old and wrap in a new label is easy (how many return for 5.99 battery after you found you can only charge full and used for few hours?), use city water instead of DI for electrolyte can save money, but impact long term performance and life, no temperature sensor can get thermal run away of battery out of control... if your handset can not detect signal of over heat, it would not shut down the battery for example... when metal is expansive (not now.. aluminum price went down a big time), thinner casing, or worst, buy dumped reject parts and wrap it as new, etc. etc. cheap, of course... the latest battery uses polymer electrolyte, and other super cap, harder to counterfeit... but still not stopping chaps try (I heard there are some place you can buy battery on train to super charge your phone for cheap...not sure how good is the current control mechanism on those...). if i were you, already got a 600-700 phone, go get a nice decent battery and real brand charger... not worth the money to take chances for 10-15 dollar saving (unless your data is worthless than your slap of NY steak).

[nimra]

If an individual is worried that the security services are monitoring their phone conversations - it's likely they have one of two problems - a) You are in ISIS, b) you have mental health issues.

Well I was mainly thinking about movies, how can they be secure ...spys and agents and all...

But also let's say you visit a company and a meeting is held which should not be listened in by competitors etc...

Or a betrayed husband or wife wants to sneak into conversations...

There is not only ISIS or mental disturbance...

ALSO... phones with removable backcovers and therefore removable batteries usually could be carrying a second sim card adapter....

AND you could also insert a card which eliminates electro smog...

So there are a lot of pros for having a removable battery
But industry don't care...and all sheep follow and explain why it's for the better...

BUT perhaps it's even a big plan, that they or others don't want us to have these options...get all equal and streamlined...hurray

Posted via CB10

[anon(6038817)]

One of the reasons I have kept coming back to BlackBerry after trying all the other platforms is because their phones have looked different. I'm contrarian by nature and don't like to go along with the crowd if I don't have to. Even the PRIV with its curved screen edges, weave back, and sliding keyboard is different enough for me.

The DTEK50? Not so much. I'm sure it's a great phone, but from a distance it looks like any other Android slab.

The Mercury, by virtue of its physical keyboard, will still stand out even if it has an iPhone like rounded frame. I'm just not sold on the form factor yet. Seems like it would be top-heavy. Hopefully they put some counter-weight near the keyboard to balance it out.

Posted from my Q10 via CB10

[ardakca]

One of the reasons I have kept coming back to BlackBerry after trying all the other platforms is because their phones have looked different. I'm contrarian by nature and don't like to go along with the crowd if I don't have to. Even the PRIV with its curved screen edges, weave back, and sliding keyboard is different enough for me.

The DTEK50? Not so much. I'm sure it's a great phone, but from a distance it looks like any other Android slab.

The Mercury, by virtue of its physical keyboard, will still stand out even if it has an iPhone like rounded frame. I'm just not sold on the form factor yet. Seems like it would be top-heavy. Hopefully they put some counter-weight near the keyboard to balance it out.

Posted from my Q10 via CB10

Hope that counterbalance is more battery )

[stlabrat]

Apple claims huge swaths of 'genuine' accessories on Amazon are counterfeit in new lawsuit - General Discussion Discussions on AppleInsider Forums
counterfeit is live and well...

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

One of the reasons I have kept coming back to BlackBerry after trying all the other platforms is because their phones have looked different. I'm contrarian by nature and don't like to go along with the crowd if I don't have to. Even the PRIV with its curved screen edges, weave back, and sliding keyboard is different enough for me.

The DTEK50? Not so much. I'm sure it's a great phone, but from a distance it looks like any other Android slab.

The Mercury, by virtue of its physical keyboard, will still stand out even if it has an iPhone like rounded frame. I'm just not sold on the form factor yet. Seems like it would be top-heavy. Hopefully they put some counter-weight near the keyboard to balance it out.

Posted from my Q10 via CB10

Most BlackBerry users that like to say that.... came to BlackBerry when the were following the crowd, they just didn't follow them when the left.

But yeah, all the devices with a PKB do stand out in today's sea of SLAB phones. Personally I think that if if were possible to release a Passport with Android... it might have sold better than the PRIV - can't imagine how it would have done any worse. Passport is a very distinctive looking phone that really stand out.

[anon(6038817)]

Most BlackBerry users that like to say that.... came to BlackBerry when the were following the crowd, they just didn't follow them when the left.

But yeah, all the devices with a PKB do stand out in today's sea of SLAB phones. Personally I think that if if were possible to release a Passport with Android... it might have sold better than the PRIV - can't imagine how it would have done any worse. Passport is a very distinctive looking phone that really stand out.

My first BlackBerry was a PlayBook. Like I said, I'm a contrarian.

Posted from my Z30 via CB10

[cbvinh]

make money were the main focus of the counterfeit: as for battery, take old and wrap in a new label is easy (how many return for 5.99 battery after you found you can only charge full and used for few hours?), use city water instead of DI for electrolyte can save money, but impact long term performance and life, no temperature sensor can get thermal run away of battery out of control... if your handset can not detect signal of over heat, it would not shut down the battery for example... when metal is expansive (not now.. aluminum price went down a big time), thinner casing, or worst, buy dumped reject parts and wrap it as new, etc. etc. cheap, of course... the latest battery uses polymer electrolyte, and other super cap, harder to counterfeit... but still not stopping chaps try (I heard there are some place you can buy battery on train to super charge your phone for cheap...not sure how good is the current control mechanism on those...). if i were you, already got a 600-700 phone, go get a nice decent battery and real brand charger... not worth the money to take chances for 10-15 dollar saving (unless your data is worthless than your slap of NY steak).

Here's my experience: I buy the batteries advertised as "new" on eBay. I usually buy the ones that offer higher capacity than the original OEM. I've had one battery expand a bit after a /few/ years of use, out of perhaps twelve batteries purchased? The difference in price, for the camera batteries varied from saving $20 to $40. Over twelve batteries, that's $360, using $30 as the median price.

[cbvinh]

Apple claims huge swaths of 'genuine' accessories on Amazon are counterfeit in new lawsuit - General Discussion Discussions on AppleInsider Forums
counterfeit is live and well...

There's a difference between counterfeit and third party. What do you consider Apple compatible products made by Belkin, Griffin, etc.?

[stlabrat]

There's a difference between counterfeit and third party. What do you consider Apple compatible products made by Belkin, Griffin, etc.?

normally, you comply with either a standard, or in apple case, internal standard for the interface, submit to who ever you wanted to compatible with (brand name) with your test results showed (1) comply with their standard, (2) no issue interms of reliability and performance (not going to degrade design intended performance of the device). etc. etc. you got stamp of approval, - such a third party (similar to the app approval process for apple i believe), sould be ok. check some of the cheap earbud that compatible with everybody's design (impedance match for every design is a tall order... they must be super smart)... tell me if you think it got the full effect of the design intend? i have no problem to buy the jeans, as long as it stitch not fail.. (actually brought 10 t-shirt at dollar a piece for my EU trip... cheaper than go to laundraymate... they all change shape after one wash -distored swisted - cold water wash by hand even), but it was worth the money... get rid of them, open space for better finding on the trip..