[idssteve]

^^this^^. Sums it up in a nutshell, imo.

They blew it in software.

They're still blowing it in software.

And johnny thinks they can survive in... what... software?

Brilliant... NOT!

The ship is sinking, and sinking fast now.

Only a few more quarters left.

I'm probably not quite as pessimistic... Although MY retirements aren't invested with them... lol.

John took on quite a mess of problems pre-dating him at least half a decade. Turn arounds are tough. On a vastly tiny scale comparatively, I've done one turn around and at least four start ups. I can say i'd rather do 100 startups than a single turnaround. Imo. Overcoming reputation damage inflicted years before is tough. There are things any one of us might have done differently from John but keeping that ship afloat was going to take more miracle, than mastery, no matter.

EVERYone and their mother has their own pet theory about what happened. Good chance MOST are right. Lol. My pet theory lays blame right at Mike's decision to sequester BB10 guys from BBOS experience. Supposedly in pursuit of a "fresh start" after reading a silly book. Lol. Tiny RIM was doomed to niche status the minute Apple & Google entered. Imo. NOthing tiny RIM could have done, after the Verizon/Storm fiasco, was going to stop that, imo. MY Monday morning post game strategy, fwiw, would have recognized niche inevitability well before BB10 and sought harder to leverage more of BBOS's experience into BB10's GUI. Imo. FWIW. Providing a reasonable migration path for tens of millions of loyal legacy users might have possibly generated enough critical mass to jump start BB10's app ecosystem...?? Maybe. Stranding LOYAL users was NO way to expand markets. Imo.

But, it's still within their capability to carve out a software niche. Their only chance to survive that is to establish unchallenged dominance in that niche. AND to stay far enough ahead so that challenging that niche won't provide safe enough return for Google to invest effort into... ?? No time to tolerate slackers... lol.

[idssteve]

More than a few lost their positions with their companies for sticking with BlackBerry.

I know the company I had been working for had wanted to move to iPhones, but the IT guy (and Verizon sales rep) sold the bosses on the new BlackBerry iPhone killer, within a few months most the "bosses" had iPhones and the company had switched to AT&T's terrible service (for our area) and we were given Bolds... Next he talked them into PlayBooks, next he was no longer around.

And there was a major contributor here back in the day who worked I believe in government or maybe big enterprise.... she argued and argued for BB10 and ended up losing her job as everyone else in here department wisely saw the folly of BB10 after it launched and BlackBerry put up the for sale sign.

At this point I question how many IT Professionals would even risk BlackBerry Mobile.... even if they managed to someday come out with a great product.

Haha... our IT guy has become quite bald over these past few years... lol. We have a uniquely special need for PKB and so might possibly stay with them to the bitter end... or glorious re-birth? Lol.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I'm probably not quite as pessimistic... Although MY retirements aren't invested with them... lol.

John took on quite a mess of problems pre-dating him at least half a decade. Turn arounds are tough. On a vastly tiny scale comparatively, I've done one turn around and at least four start ups. I can say i'd rather do 100 startups than a single turnaround. Imo. Overcoming reputation damage inflicted years before is tough. There are things any one of us might have done differently from John but keeping that ship afloat was going to take more miracle, than mastery, no matter.

EVERYone and their mother has their own pet theory about what happened. Good chance MOST are right. Lol. My pet theory lays blame right at Mike's decision to sequester BB10 guys from BBOS experience. Supposedly in pursuit of a "fresh start" after reading a silly book. Lol. Tiny RIM was doomed to niche status the minute Apple & Google entered. Imo. NOthing tiny RIM could have done, after the Verizon/Storm fiasco, was going to stop that, imo. MY Monday morning post game strategy, fwiw, would have recognized niche inevitability well before BB10 and sought harder to leverage more of BBOS's experience into BB10's GUI. Imo. FWIW. Providing a reasonable migration path for tens of millions of loyal legacy users might have possibly generated enough critical mass to jump start BB10's app ecosystem...?? Maybe. Stranding LOYAL users was NO way to expand markets. Imo.

But, it's still within their capability to carve out a software niche. Their only chance to survive that is to establish unchallenged dominance in that niche. AND to stay far enough ahead so that challenging that niche won't provide safe enough return for Google to invest effort into... ?? No time to tolerate slackers... lol.

I think TINY RIM could have taken on both.... if TINY RIM had a clue about consumers. They didn't, their focus was on enterprise. It was accidental that their enterprise device for a short time lined up with consumers needs.


Dominance in that niche.... I agree, but so far haven't seen it. And this whole BlackBerry Secure possible on other devices, won't that be for the same small niche. Would seem like a product that will shrink the tiny niche to a point TCL might not be able to survive.

Next will be GoFundMe BlackBerry PKB devices....

[Chuck Finley69]

I think TINY RIM could have taken on both.... if TINY RIM had a clue about consumers. They didn't, their focus was on enterprise. It was accidental that their enterprise device for a short time lined up with consumers needs.


Dominance in that niche.... I agree, but so far haven't seen it. And this whole BlackBerry Secure possible on other devices, won't that be for the same small niche. Would seem like a product that will shrink the tiny niche to a point TCL might not be able to survive.

Next will be GoFundMe BlackBerry PKB devices....

Tiny RIM had just that problem "Tiny". BlackBerry never had the business plan and business model to move from BBOS successfully. It derived it's positive cash flow and profits from monthly SAF revenues primarily and the sale of hardware needed to best access the BIS servers. I remember non-blackberry devices at carrier stores being sold with a BIS package for the push email back in 2006-2008 range. Software has always been where BlackBerry made it's actual primary revenue, profits and cash flow. The hardware profits were smaller and reliant on the BBOS on the hardware. Remove BBOS and there was no reason to buy the hardware.

Even if BlackBerry could have somehow maintained the monthly SAF revenues, they never generated the kind of cash flow that Apple, Google or Microsoft generate from there non-phone operations. The carriers also had very strong interests with killing the monthly SAF and keeping that revenue for themselves.

TCL has the scale and scope to compete in Android where BlackBerry never really stood a chance, 2007 or 2017.

[bitek]

I bought PRIV and I bought KEYone and if some new blackberry phones comes out with insane battery and productivity stuff please take my money !

[Troy Tiscareno]

More than a few lost their positions with their companies for sticking with BlackBerry.

I know the company I had been working for had wanted to move to iPhones, but the IT guy (and Verizon sales rep) sold the bosses on the new BlackBerry iPhone killer, within a few months most the "bosses" had iPhones and the company had switched to AT&T's terrible service (for our area) and we were given Bolds... Next he talked them into PlayBooks, next he was no longer around.

And there was a major contributor here back in the day who worked I believe in government or maybe big enterprise.... she argued and argued for BB10 and ended up losing her job as everyone else in here department wisely saw the folly of BB10 after it launched and BlackBerry put up the for sale sign.

At this point I question how many IT Professionals would even risk BlackBerry Mobile.... even if they managed to someday come out with a great product.

Just read this news article that talks about the same thing, except for WinPhone instead of BB:

NYPD to scrap 36,000 smartphones because they’re obsolete | Daily Mail Online

Clearly this person was a WinPhone fan and let their fan status override their logic, and as a result, NYC will now have to spend a ton of money to replace a 36,000 phones.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Just read this news article that talks about the same thing, except for WinPhone instead of BB:

NYPD to scrap 36,000 smartphones because they’re obsolete | Daily Mail Online

Clearly this person was a WinPhone fan and let their fan status override their logic, and as a result, NYC will now have to spend a ton of money to replace a 36,000 phones.

Actually think that was worse... at least BB10 was secure.

They'll be happy with their iPhones.....

[Troy Tiscareno]

Agree... but it goes to show why companies don't want to buy into "also-ran" platforms - the risk of being abandoned and having to replace whole fleets of devices (which costs a lot more than just buying new devices - it also requires training and replacing any custom apps that company may have made or licensed) is not going to be well-received, and could in fact be career-ending.

[Invictus0]

Actually think that was worse... at least BB10 was secure.

They'll be happy with their iPhones.....

From a vulnerabilities perspective Windows Phone is secure as well, the problem is Microsoft has ended support for Windows Phone 8.x so if there are issues they won't be patched (which I think also puts BlackBerry's support for BB10 into perspective).

Strangely, the devices mentioned in the article can all be updated to Windows 10 Mobile which is actively supported by Microsoft.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Strangely, the devices mentioned in the article can all be updated to Windows 10 Mobile which is actively supported by Microsoft.

That is and isn't true. Yes, they can be upgraded, and, yes, technically MS is working on Win10M, but the reality is that they aren't paying much attention to it anymore. It's become the red-headed step-child in Redmond, as it has done nothing but lose billions of dollars for a decade with no forecast of any changes. They don't want to OFFICIALLY admit defeat, but it's not much of a secret that they hold out little hope for the platform - and that their userbase is shrinking at an alarming rate.

[nogutsnoglory]

Who said you won't. TCL already committed to a minimum of 2 years of updates.

sorry if the this was answered but to whom did TCL commit? If it is not in the license agreement it is likely not a legal obligation.

[Invictus0]

That is and isn't true. Yes, they can be upgraded, and, yes, technically MS is working on Win10M, but the reality is that they aren't paying much attention to it anymore. It's become the red-headed step-child in Redmond, as it has done nothing but lose billions of dollars for a decade with no forecast of any changes. They don't want to OFFICIALLY admit defeat, but it's not much of a secret that they hold out little hope for the platform - and that their userbase is shrinking at an alarming rate.

Of course and I agree but Windows 10 Mobile is still receiving monthly updates and patches which (at least from what we know from the article) is the reason why they're moving away from Windows Phone. An upgrade seems like it would be an easy way to prolong their use and save face on the issue.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Again, you aren't wrong, but Win10M is also seeing developers flee, and I think they know that it's going to be a problem sooner or later - and it would be a support nightmare having people on different OS versions and/or different platforms. When you're dealing with so many devices, things that are simple as a single user get VERY complicated - and consistency becomes extremely important.

[bb10adopter111]

Buy the phone that best meets your needs over its expected period of use. Brand loyalty has zero value to customers. It only has value to brands.

But my attitude is based on seeing a mobile phone as a necessary nuisance, not as an object of desire.

I'm about to attempt a migration from BB10 to Android as a daily driver for the first time since Lollipoo (not a typo). Flick to type, long battery life, DTEK, Blackberry's HUB+ Suite, and the ability to avoid the Android home button through shortcuts to the 10-12 things I actually get paid to do on my phone are the features I care most about.

For me, the KEYone is the best available choice. I have concerns about the build quality on ALL contemporary phones in terms of their lasting 3-5 years.

The iPhone always gets high marks in build quality, but iOS is truly abysmal for my use case, and I can't count the number of cracked iPhone screens I see everyday.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(870071)]

If BlackBerry are no longer supporting BlackBerry 10, how can I trust they won't just stop supporting the new Android line if I buy one.

Posted via CB10

Rest assured Android is supported but I'm afraid to tell you BBos10 has etched end of life! Eversince RIM sold rights to BBmobile/TCL the shift is to move to android. The previous runtime was pretty much dead as see in the passport etc! Android apps couldn't function with that old runtime either lagging or crashing! Now with the KEY ONE, all android apps are running amazing! No, the hub +suite are not the same however it's still pretty good interns of what BB offers! The BB apps are similar and you will still retain the great features but in android style!

[SPQR ROMULUS]

Just read this news article that talks about the same thing, except for WinPhone instead of BB:

NYPD to scrap 36,000 smartphones because they’re obsolete | Daily Mail Online

Clearly this person was a WinPhone fan and let their fan status override their logic, and as a result, NYC will now have to spend a ton of money to replace a 36,000 phones.

Weren't they obsolete only because of the needs the police wanted? The phones themselves aren't obsolete.

[jamesharmeling]

If BlackBerry are no longer supporting BlackBerry 10, how can I trust they won't just stop supporting the new Android line if I buy one.

Posted via CB10

None of that stuff even comes to my mind concerning my BlackBerry madness. Businesses business is their business. I'm a simple BlackBerry Fanboy of the worst variety. It's the only smartphone I've ever owned and I take a lot of pride in my BlackBerry's, especially around my envious (my term) friends and colleagues who have either a Samsung or Apple device. I'm convinced that most buy what their friends have...period.

ATT black version?....ordering one tomorrow morning. Why? Because BlackBerry, that's why.

[SandKicker760]

None of that stuff even comes to my mind concerning my BlackBerry madness. Businesses business is their business. I'm a simple BlackBerry Fanboy of the worst variety. It's the only smartphone I've ever owned and I take a lot of pride in my BlackBerry's, especially around my envious (my term) friends and colleagues who have either a Samsung or Apple device. I'm convinced that most buy what their friends have...period.

ATT black version?....ordering one tomorrow morning. Why? Because BlackBerry, that's why.

Att carrying BlackBerry again in the US?
Was there a few months back and there were No BlackBerrys at all. Before that visit, I was there in December of 16 and they were taking down the BB Priv display, and said that ATT was done with BlackBerry. Did you see it in store? Just curious.

[jamesharmeling]

Att carrying BlackBerry again in the US?
Was there a few months back and there were No BlackBerrys at all. Before that visit, I was there in December of 16 and they were taking down the BB Priv display, and said that ATT was done with BlackBerry. Did you see it in store? Just curious.

I haven't been to an ATT store in ages. I want to go in to order a black keyone and try to get past all the extra fees that they want when ordering online.

[bb10adopter111]

I just left my corporate-owned AT&T store. Total price, shipped to the store, was $30 for the 6% sales tax, and will be $16.67 a month for 30 months. Easy transaction, and happy to support my sales reps, who genuinely care about knowing their business and helping customers. Wish that was the norm, but it's the exception.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10268214)]

I just left my corporate-owned AT&T store. Total price, shipped to the store, was $30 for the 6% sales tax, and will be $16.67 a month for 30 months. Easy transaction, and happy to support my sales reps, who genuinely care about knowing their business and helping customers. Wish that was the norm, but it's the exception.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Canadian carriers take note...learn to SELL dammit!