[sorinv]

I think more people then you think tried, and are aware of BB10. The problem is BlackBerry blew it with the first impressions.

I bought my Z10 in February 2013. It had major problems with randomly rebooting. It took BlackBerry way to long to fix the issue, as outlined here:

https://supportforums.blackberry.com...s/td-p/2232037

I, much like everyone here, blindly followed BlackBerry into BB10, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and gave them time to fix it.

Second, in the early days, you had to find apks, which you needed to convert to bar files, and then sideload onto BB10 (Android apps) . The ability to run apks directly didn't come until 10.2. Point is, the average person probably did not want to deal with it. And I highly doubt any of the sales people were educated enough to explain this to customers.

First impressions of new products is a big deal, and BlackBerry blew it.

I purchased a z10 in February 2013 which had none of the reboot problems, nor any other problem.
It was perfect. These problems must have been random.


Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

In all fairness, I honestly think BB10 provided improved reliability over early 7.1, for example. Like most things, it all depends on use. I can easily see where certain apps or sd card malfunctions could impact reliability of anything.

My complaint with BB10 had more to do with UX organization and MOST to do with missing features. BB10 has matured over the years but still provides no reasonable way to insert rows into spreadsheets, for example. At least we finally got assignable shortcuts but, in exchange, they just had to "fix" a pretty good 10.2 calendar until they broke it by 10.3.2, imo. Of all things that needed fixing, who was complaining about 10.2 calendar??? Ug.

The latest releases of 7.1 finally got to tolerably acceptable reliability while preserving functionality SOME of us view as indispensable. I fully understand that few consumers really need spreadsheet & other functionality. BUT when you abandon parts of your "professional" niche, don't be surprised when they abandon you.

[DonHB]

Not a chance. Not even a remote one.

You have to remember that it was 2013 when John Chen became CEO and could have started building Flow on Android then. Also, the incorporation of Google Play Services in apps were not as wide spread as is today. Like I wrote in a later post--lost opportunity.

[conite]

You have to remember that it was 2013 when John Chen became CEO and could have started building Flow on Android then. Also, the incorporation of Google Play Services in apps were not as wide spread as is today. Like I wrote in a later post--lost opportunity.

Google was already well underway on its Crusade to lock down Android. There is nothing in heaven or Earth that Chen could have done with his few dollars 3 years ago against that.

[DonHB]

Google was already well underway on its Crusade to lock down Android. There is nothing in heaven or Earth that Chen could have done with his few dollars 3 years ago against that.

Google Mobile/Play Services were not incorporated into apps in 2013 as they are today.

And Amazon is now using Android 5.x.

And developers would have been able to use their Android assets to build Flow compliant apps that fully integrated into the Hub and with other BB10 apps. How many developers didn't want to support Android on BB10 when the apps didn't provide the BB10 UX nor wanted to support yet another API in Cascades? I would suspect many, but if it Android was properly supported on BB10 they may have taken the risk. Remember iOS is based upon OS X and uses the same tools as OS X development. Development of Android on BB10 used Google's tools, still do and there is no reason they couldn't continue to be used in the scenario above.

And if it didn't work in the market they would have built expertise in Android internals which would have not been lost in their transition to licensing their Google compliant version of Android.

So, this was a lost opportunity.

And if I had to chose between iOS, Google encumbered Android, and a non-Google, non-Amazon maturing Android "ecosystem" I would chose the last one.

[Nguyen1]

Idsteve, I always enjoy reading your stories about the 9900s. I'd love to use it or the 9930 as my main phone, but sadly I live in the usa where bis is almost extinct. I missed that boat by a few years but at least my passport works just fine on att, my carrier.

The dtek60 looks so good, but I'm resisting it until I see what the mercury looks like.

Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE

[early2bed]

You have to wonder what would have happened if, instead of embarking on a QNX-based proprietary OS, BlackBerry had put all of its resources into developing competitive Android handsets, including PKBs, for its existing customer base, where it would be today.

[TGR1]

You have to wonder what would have happened if, instead of embarking on a QNX-based proprietary OS, BlackBerry had put all of its resources into developing competitive Android handsets, including PKBs, for its existing customer base, where it would be today.

Still smothered by Samsung.

We also must assume that RIM had

1) comtinuously made much better management decisions all over the place
2) successfully maintained Verizon relationship in that first iPhone killer phase and become the poster boy of "Droid"
3) convinced BBOS diehards that Android minus BIS really was the future

in which case IMO it is possible they would be a little more prominent. But I still think they would be at best a distant also-ran to Samsung. The latter had blood thirst, questionable business scruples, and substantial resources.

[silversmith75]

All the reasons in the world. But people won't but what they don't know exists

#luvmybb10os

[krazyatom]

So I am using failed BB10 devices?

[tre10]

All the reasons in the world. But people won't but what they don't know exists.
.



#luvmybb10os

People have to pay attention more. These billboards look pretty huge.

Oh and there was these ads :

A BB10 as from the UK :





An ad for the time shift camera :



One for the Q10 : *https://youtu.be/S-dMJ15cgAM



And lastly a Z30 ad showing off all the software features : *https://youtu.be/yFreYEKBmlU

Tell me again about that non existing marketing

[joeldf]

People have to pay attention more. These billboards look pretty huge.

Sure, they look big wherever it was you took those pictures. But they aren't in my city. Nor, were they all over the world.

And YouTube videos don't count. You have to go out of your way to find those.

Blanketing commercial time during popular TV shows or sports events where they will be seen by people arbitrarily gets you more exposure. And that didn't happen.

There were some commercials by Verizon early in the BB10 release, a decent spot showing BBM video on the Q10, but that was it in the U.S. There was nothing - I mean absolutely nothing from AT&T. And this was after Heins had promised a carrier-based marketing blitz in the U.S. once the Z10 was released. Never happened.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

Sure, they look big wherever it was you took those pictures. But they aren't in my city. Nor, were they all over the world.

And YouTube videos don't count. You have to go out of your way to find those.

Blanketing commercial time during popular TV shows or sports events where they will be seen by people arbitrarily gets you more exposure. And that didn't happen.

There were some commercials by Verizon early in the BB10 release, a decent spot showing BBM video on the Q10, but that was it in the U.S. There was nothing - I mean absolutely nothing from AT&T. And this was after Heins had promised a carrier-based marketing blitz in the U.S. once the Z10 was released. Never happened.

Posted via CB10

Those YouTube videos were real television ads. During the first 6 months of BB10 they were on all the time. They were actually starting to drive me nuts.

DTEK60 / Z30

[andy957]

No apps.

[joeldf]

Those YouTube videos were real television ads. During the first 6 months of BB10 they were on all the time. They were actually starting to drive me nuts.

DTEK60 / Z30

Can't say that I've ever seen any of those on TV. Network, cable or otherwise. At least they were never aired in South Louisiana.

Posted via CB10

[Troy Tiscareno]

Can't say that I've ever seen any of those on TV. Network, cable or otherwise. At least they were never aired in South Louisiana.

Verizon Z10 commercials and AT&T Q10 commercials were on TV constantly until July or August 2013 - the latter on the History channel and CBS in particular.

[z10Jobe]

Ya know for a ultra miserable operating system failure, it sure is fun effortlessly flicking words up from this slick stock z30 keyboard not fretting if I got this month's security patch.

I will, however, take this opportunity to ask where the blank is BlackBerry 10.3.3? It better be here by June 2029 or else I may have to sign up for that Google account on my Priv.

Posted via CB10

[cribble2k]

I purchased a z10 in February 2013 which had none of the reboot problems, nor any other problem.
It was perfect. These problems must have been random.


Posted via CB10

Yes everyone's experience is different. Searching on the Internet, shows I wasn't the only one with this issue, and it was more than a 'bad batch' localized in Ottawa.

My point was, if this was acknowledged, and later fixed by BlackBerry, how many defective units were on display at shops worldwide, that may of crashed? It only takes one to turn people away.

Also, as mentioned, the Android app experience out of the box was misleading. Anyone want to argue converting apks to bars was a user friendly experience on a new platform?

[idssteve]

Hmm, the last BB TV add I recall was that infamous Super Bowl add... Lol. If I saw anything after that, it certainly didn't stick in MY old brain. Lol.

Of course the first step of successfully marketing ANYthing is to have a marketable product. Some of us argued that BB10 prior to 10.2 should never have made it into public hands. And 10.2 NEEDed to be released Sep-Oct 2011 at the latest. Just after that stupidly premature BBOS EOL comment. Imo.

Of course even the best product supported by the best mass marketing was still going to hit the "carrier barrier" at the carrier sales floor level. I can't count the # times Verizon sales floor staff, multiple stores, multiple states, volunteered: "Blackberry is going out of business" and "droid is what you want..." Back in 2010!!!

The "Storm damage" was still mentioned by Verizon sales floor staff in 2013.

The Q10's "bait & switch" loss of toolbelt killed BB's reputation for ME, fwiw.

Has ANYone, ANYwhere seen ANY mass marketing of Classic? Or PassPort?? I sure haven't.

[tre10]

Ya know for a ultra miserable operating system failure, it sure is fun effortlessly flicking words up from this slick stock z30 keyboard not fretting if I got this month's security patch.

I will, however, take this opportunity to ask where the blank is BlackBerry 10.3.3? It better be here by June 2029 or else I may have to sign up for that Google account on my Priv.

Posted via CB10

I don't think that's up for debate. The BB10 UI is fantastic in my opinion and it's not an isolated one. BlackBerry had other problems, some of them at the board level I believe. Water under the bridge I guess. Depending on your needs BB10 is still a wonderfully capable OS.

[tre10]

Hmm, the last BB TV add I recall was that infamous Super Bowl add... Lol. If I saw anything after that, it certainly didn't stick in MY old brain. Lol.

Of course the first step of successfully marketing ANYthing is to have a marketable product. Some of us argued that BB10 prior to 10.2 should never have made it into public hands. And 10.2 NEEDed to be released Sep-Oct 2011 at the latest. Just after that stupidly premature BBOS EOL comment. Imo.

Of course even the best product supported by the best mass marketing was still going to hit the "carrier barrier" at the carrier sales floor level. I can't count the # times Verizon sales floor staff, multiple stores, multiple states, volunteered: "Blackberry is going out of business" and "droid is what you want..." Back in 2010!!!

The "Storm damage" was still mentioned by Verizon sales floor staff in 2013.

The Q10's "bait & switch" loss of toolbelt killed BB's reputation for ME, fwiw.

Has ANYone, ANYwhere seen ANY mass marketing of Classic? Or PassPort?? I sure haven't.

BlackBerry was pretty late with BB10. The longer they didn't have something new out there the more customers they lost. They had plenty of incentive to rush it out as I'll advised as that is. In an ideal scenario the classic would have released first followed by the Z30 running 10.2. Just goes to show how far behind they actually were.

After they failed to sell millions the board kinda panicked and put the company up for sale. That's when advertising dried up as BlackBerry couldn't afford a mass media blitz and they started to pull away from anything that had any serious risk. Best analogy I can think of is being around a fire in the woods, getting burned by it so you put it out completely leaving oneself in the cold and dark.

Advertising is actually too expensive for BlackBerry. They know they won't sell in numbers to justify spending a billion dollars on advertising. People may think they just need ads to target the right people. This is what they do already. The consumer isn't going to see much marketing because so few of them need what a BlackBerry offers.

That's right guys you're not profitable enough as individual buyers for BlackBerry to waste money on you. Same deal with OS support. They'll complete a minimum contractual obligation and that's it. That's the way business works.

[joeldf]

Verizon Z10 commercials and AT&T Q10 commercials were on TV constantly until July or August 2013 - the latter on the History channel and CBS in particular.

The Verizon Q10 BBM video commercial was the only one I ever saw, and saw it fairly regularly... after that initial Super Bowl commercial that did play a few more times after that premier.

There may have been one about the time shift feature, but it wasn't the one linked above. And it wasn't on very often.

Not a thing from AT&T ever that I saw. And I kept an eye out for them at the time since I'm on AT&T.

That's my experience.

Posted via CB10

[andy957]

I will, however, take this opportunity to ask where the blank is BlackBerry 10.3.3? It better be here by June 2029 or else I may have to sign up for that Google account on my Priv.

Curious, what is it about 10.3.3 that you're clamoring to get your hands on? NIAP certification? That's what's coming, apparently.

[Troy Tiscareno]

That's my experience.

I was a contractor working for DirecTV and Dish Network for about 7 years installing systems, the last few years doing commercial installs. One thing I definitely learned on that job is that the average person only watches about a dozen channels with any regularity - but it's a different dozen channels than the last customer, or the next. I met customers whose most important channel was a channel I'd never heard of before, and who never watched the ones I watch.

So, it's not at all unusual for two (or 10 or dozens) of people to have very different experiences, because we all watch different things on different channels, and if, like in this case, an advertiser focuses on a couple of channels you don't normally watch, then you'll never see their ads, no matter how often they run them. Someone else, who watches those channels, may see them so often they get annoying. Two very different experiences, but both are "right"...

[JohnKCG]

They did heavy marketing on Venezuela (a key BlackBerry market on BBOS days) everyone knew and recognized Z10 and Q10, but they was recognized as "bad quality" phones, in few words what people in this thread says:

�Non-intuitive OS (Hard to learn)

�Un-polyshed OS (BlackBerry launched BlackBerry 10 in a rush move to be honest)

�Bad first BlackBerry 10 devices (Z10 having to be Z30 and Q10 the Classic, and Classic having to be the very first BlackBerry 10 device to help BBOS users to make the change easy)

�No help for new users (yes it was marketed as a superb OS, but in stores people Just got confused about using OS10 and there wasn't no one to help them creating a bad image (this point in fact is caused by point #1)

�Marketing in some places and inexistent marketing in some others (BlackBerry 10 WAS marketed, maybe what people says here about marketing applies to places BlackBerry did not market in OS10 prime time days)

Add to that being very very late at the party when Android and IOS were established players, that led to the app gap in a way, developers wouldn't waste time in a "bad" OS that was "destined" to fail, BlackBerry before BlackBerry 10 landed, which didn't help either in BlackBerry 10 growing, excuse My bad english please.

Posted via CB10