[sorinv]

A buggy mess that made lots of money...

but carry on.

I thought it was free. The money was not made from android directly. The money was made from data and ads.

Posted via CB10

[telepbs]

It doesnt matter whether google earned money directly from android or by selling ads to milliard (billion) android users.
Considering google paid a measly 50 million for it, i would say it was a money well spent .

[iUser]

"Why BlackBerry 10 OS failed so miserably even though it had high potential?"

I'll answer this quickly:
1. John Chen is ridiculously stiff and stubborn
2. Lack of a high-end successor to the BlackBerry Q10 and Z30
3. No marketing
4. Not enough pride
5. Presence of an Android runtime which discouraged many developers
6. Non-removable batteries

What does Chen have to do with the BB10 failure to do? It has failed before Chen was BBRY CEO. Chen was hired to save BBRY as a company. He tried to save BB10 from death after the failure. He failed doing this? Yes. But again, he's hired for the company's sake and not to be a savior of an OS.

For 2-4, BBRY had already no money to begin with when Chen started. Too late with "Time to market", it has no Apps to begin with. And TH idea? Android Runtime? Real joke. Why not taking Android as a whole back then? I hate non removable batteries too. But looking at iPhone, it is not a big factor for millions of buyers, either.

I'm happy to get a Z30 as my phone and mails device. No games on my Z30. But millions out there want to use Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat and etc. And other OS are simply better supported by the developers.

Posted through my BlackBerry

[iUser]

I suppose his statements are as much for the marketplace , where he has kept the door open to license bb10.

And that is one of things that a CEO should do.

Posted through my BlackBerry

[sorinv]

It doesnt matter whether google earned money directly from android or by selling ads to milliard (billion) android users.
Considering google paid a measly 50 million for it, i would say it was a money well spent .

But it is incorrect to say that android made a pile of money. It's free.
If Google had charged for it, it wouldn't be on 85% of phones and Google would have a much harder time collecting everyone's data and feeding them ads in exchange.

In that respect, Google is not much different from the Chinese companies accused by the west of dumping steel, solar panels and telecom equipment in western markets.

It's a classical way to monopolize a market if you have deep enough pockets to cover the initial losses.
It also helps if you can avoid paying taxes because most (if not all) of the world's legislatures have not caught up with the robber data economy.

This is very easy for Google to do since most of the world's population is so poor that they can't afford to pay for apps and Google play services.
The Romans understood this very well: give them free bread and circus...

Google is smarter, they only give away circus, no bread.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

But it is incorrect to say that android made a pile of money. It's free.
If Google had charged for it, it wouldn't be on 85% of phones and Google would have a much harder time collecting everyone's data and feeding them ads in exchange.

In that respect, Google is not much different from the Chinese companies accused by the west of dumping steel, solar panels and telecom equipment in western markets.

It's a classical way to monopolize a market if you have deep enough pockets to cover the initial losses.
It also helps if you can avoid paying taxes because most (if not all) of the world's legislatures have not caught up with the robber data economy.

This is very easy for Google to do since most of the world's population is so poor that they can't afford to pay for apps and Google play services.
The Romans understood this very well: give them free bread and circus...

Google is smarter, they only give away circus, no bread.

Posted via CB10

The vast majority of people find what Google offers is well worth targeted ads.

They are also a public company, and as such, my retirement income depends on them doing well and making lots of money.

[sorinv]

The vast majority of people find what Google offers is well worth targeted ads.

They are also a public company, and as such, my retirement income depends on them doing well and making lots of money.

I feel for you.
How many people did you interview who use Google and willingly accept targeted ads? I bet most of those who know how to set it up have ad blockers.

Posted via CB10

[JohnKCG]

I feel for you.
How many people did you interview who use Google and willingly accept targeted ads? I bet most of those who know how to set it up have ad blockers.

Posted via CB10

Most of the users don't know or care about targeted ads, every people that I explain the google targeted ads is impressed but doesn't care

Posted via CB10

[duezzer]

Came to the game late. Started loss back with 7.0 and that goofy touch screen with the indent. Apps were an issue. A very large issue.

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

Resources. Once tech goliaths like Apple & Google barged into the room, relatively tiny RIM's destiny was preordained, imo. I, personally, suspect Mike's "deer in the headlights" delay in response to iPhone might be partly explained by a subliminal comprehension of the overwhelming resources RIM would need to simply match Apple's ante. ...??

By the time Verizon dragged RIM into the Storm, playing catch up was virtually impossible for them. Especially given obvious organizational inefficiencies. It ultimately fell on BB10 to correct image damage inflicted by Storm1's "half baked rush job". Unfortunately, way too late BB10.0 wasn't even "Barely Baked 10.0", as introduced.

BB10 wasn't just a new OS. It really was more like building an entirely new company from scratch. A tall order for monsters like Apple. They needed to either work bigger or work smarter. Apple did both. RIM did neither, imo.

Adequate legacy migration just might have helped BB10's chance at reaching an app ecosystem "critical mass". Legacy migration was largely road blocked by Q10's lack of toolbelt and supporting GUI. Given the additional years required to code in tool belt support, I remain convinced that those omissions had most to do with resource limited launch scheduling.

Now, 5 years after that stupidly premature EOL announcement, BBOS userbase STILL out numbers BB10. How might BB10's fortunes look today, if those numbers were doubled through legacy migration??

But... Porting legacy features into BB10 takes resources...

[Tre Lawrence]

It didn't matter - the OS itself doesn't really matter, as BB proved. What matters is the ECOSYSTEM, and by 2009, Apple and Google were locking up the ecosystem, and once locked up, you can see how impossible it is to try to create a third (or fourth!) ecosystem. BB would have had to have had a next-gen OS, even a rough one, out by 2009 to have any chance, but they hadn't even decided to START working on one by then. Once they finally did start (in 2010), it took 3 years to deliver an incomplete, buggy product and another year to get to a stable, usable OS, and by then the ECOSYSTEM war had long been fought and won. That war was over in 2010 - it just took a while for the reality of that to sink in.

This.

[world traveler and former ceo]

The battle was basically over in 2008 when BlackBerry did not have an OS that could compete with the iPhone. It took years to recognize the threat, and then purchase/develop a modern OS. It was over before it started. Devices were ultimately doomed by 2010, as Apple and Android had already taken hold - and BB10 was STILL 3 years away.

Subsequent BlackBerry missteps were utterly irrelevant.

Bold 9900 was awesome when introduced but they made a grave miscalculation when they put a Fisher Price camera in the phone... lost a lot of people with that...

And later.. was just the eco system...

Posted via CB10

[conite]

Bold 9900 was awesome when introduced but they made a grave miscalculation when they put a Fisher Price camera in the phone... lost a lot of people with that...

And later.. was just the eco system...

Posted via CB10

The user numbers were already crashing before the 9900 came out.

[Troy Tiscareno]

The user numbers were already crashing before the 9900 came out.

Yes - but sales to emerging markets masked the crash in developed markets for a couple of years. The crash in developed markets started around 2009, but BB's sales peaked in 2011, mostly due to expansion into the developed markets, and even though they were mostly low-end sales, the fact that they came with recurring BIS fees still made for profits - allowing BBs management to somewhat be able to hide from the fact that developed markets - which is where the majority of their government and enterprise customers were - had been crashing. Further, BB naively hoped that even if consumers abandoned them, that enterprise and government would stick to BB. As we all know, that just didn't happen. It turns out that ecosystems are important to government and enterprise users too.

[Loc22]

Yes - but sales to emerging markets masked the crash in developed markets for a couple of years. The crash in developed markets started around 2009, but BB's sales peaked in 2011, mostly due to expansion into the developed markets, and even though they were mostly low-end sales, the fact that they came with recurring BIS fees still made for profits - allowing BBs management to somewhat be able to hide from the fact that developed markets - which is where the majority of their government and enterprise customers were - had been crashing. Further, BB naively hoped that even if consumers abandoned them, that enterprise and government would stick to BB. As we all know, that just didn't happen. It turns out that ecosystems are important to government and enterprise users too.

I think ecosystem is only secondary. I still believe that the most important of all issues is that BlackBerry had no PR company to handle the onslaught of negative press and media releases about the company being bankrupt and has exited the market in 2008 all the way until now.

Most people on the street still think that BlackBerry has already stopped and the company dissolved. Nobody knows that BlackBerry has sold any phone after the Bold 9900. Nobody know that BlackBerry has other businesses other than mobile phones.

Try to ask a man on the street to install BBM he would tell you he doesn't use a BlackBerry phone and they are bankrupt. I think this is a bigger issue than ecosystem.

If only BlackBerry could resolve this problem others can be resolved in time.

[Troy Tiscareno]

I think ecosystem is only secondary. I still believe that the most important of all issues is that BlackBerry had no PR company to handle the onslaught of negative press and media releases about the company being bankrupt and has exited the market in 2008 all the way until now.

That's not a cause, it's a result of what I wrote above. And it was completely self-inflicted.

[silversmith75]

I guess you can say what you want. There are plenty of conspiracy theories. But I really believe that other enough people knew about it. And didn't know what it was. All they heard was no apps. And when you say BlackBerry they think bbos. They never new anything about bb10

#luvmybb10os

[conite]

I guess you can say what you want. There are plenty of conspiracy theories. But I really believe that other enough people knew about it. And didn't know what it was. All they heard was no apps. And when you say BlackBerry they think bbos. They never new anything about bb10

#luvmybb10os

The big advertising push at launch didn't get traction because the reviewers slammed BB10 for lack of apps, and the returns were staggering.

[prplhze2000]

1. Missed the boat by three to five years.
2. Limited number of apps. I suddenly couldn't get Pandora and other favorite apps when I switched from BBOS.
3. No ecosystem which leads to
4. Phones are now platforms. Apple, Google, and MS can dump billions into development and the smartphone is an integral part of that development. BlackBerry doesn't have those billions and thus can't compete as a phone only company.
5. Had a big launch and then took too long to roll out to carriers.
6. OS was half baked until 10.2.1 rolled out one year later.
7. OS was too drastic a change from BBOS. My senator was a diehard but the new OS frustrated him. Yup. IPhone. Should've included the toolbelt.
8. Should've rolled out Z30 and classic as the first bb10 phones.

Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

Resources. Once tech goliaths like Apple & Google barged into the room, relatively tiny RIM's destiny was preordained, imo. I, personally, suspect Mike's "deer in the headlights" delay in response to iPhone might be partly explained by a subliminal comprehension of the overwhelming resources RIM would need to simply match Apple's ante. ...??

By the time Verizon dragged RIM into the Storm, playing catch up was virtually impossible for them. Especially given obvious organizational inefficiencies. It ultimately fell on BB10 to correct image damage inflicted by Storm1's "half baked rush job". Unfortunately, way too late BB10.0 wasn't even "Barely Baked 10.0", as introduced.

BB10 wasn't just a new OS. It really was more like building an entirely new company from scratch. A tall order for monsters like Apple. They needed to either work bigger or work smarter. Apple did both. RIM did neither, imo.

Adequate legacy migration just might have helped BB10's chance at reaching an app ecosystem "critical mass". Legacy migration was largely road blocked by Q10's lack of toolbelt and supporting GUI. Given the additional years required to code in tool belt support, I remain convinced that those omissions had most to do with resource limited launch scheduling.

Now, 5 years after that stupidly premature EOL announcement, BBOS userbase STILL out numbers BB10. How might BB10's fortunes look today, if those numbers were doubled through legacy migration??

But... Porting legacy features into BB10 takes resources...

This.

Posted via CB10

[early2bed]

Try to ask a man on the street to install BBM he would tell you he doesn't use a BlackBerry phone and they are bankrupt. I think this is a bigger issue than ecosystem.

So, everyone you message with eagerly installs BBM once they heard from you that BlackBerry is still in business? Knowledge is all that it should take, right?

[Jonas Hagglund]

People never tried BB10 and because of this they didn't know how great it was and still is. People often don't want to try something new and will stick with the things they used to and that's why BB10 failed. Besides how can one even try out something if they don't even know it's exist?

[conite]

People never tried BB10 and because of this they didn't know how great it was and still is. People often don't want to try something new and will stick with the things they used to and that's why BB10 failed. Besides how can one even try out something if they don't even know it's exist?

How do you explain the massive returns of the Z10 when they first came out, under a big marketing campaign? This forced a huge inventory write-down, and had BlackBerry put itself up for sale.

[JeepBB]

How do you explain the massive returns of the Z10 when they first came out, under a big marketing campaign? This forced a huge inventory write-down, and had BlackBerry put itself up for sale.

Off-topic: Are we allowed to now say that BB put themselves up for sale?

I ask because anyone suggesting that BB had done so back in 2013 was flamed mercilessly here on the forums for heresy.

And "Z10 returns" mentioned in the same post!!!

Even six months ago such talk would have provoked a fierce response.

Next you'll be trying to claim that BB and the carriers conducted a massive promotional campaign at the launch of the Z10 and Q10 with in-store events, SuperBowl advertising spots, and frequent TV and press advertising.

Darn, I hate it when reality changes... it really messes with my memories.

[JulesDB]

Of course. But writing about how BlackBerry can do this or that to improve market share when BB10 development is over and the device business terminated seems like wasted energy.

Do we have to remind to Android worshippers that writing too much about an Operating system not made by BlackBerry on devices not made by BlackBerry anymore, also seems like wasted energy?

Posted via CB10