10-26-16 03:52 PM
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  1. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    IMO the PKB patents for the PKB are valuable in the same way as various typewriter patents are valuable - which would be somewhere between worthless and not much. So I can't help you in your quest for answers I'm afraid.

    I realise that I'm going to receive outraged responses from BB9900 and Q10 diehards, but the world has moved on.

    For me personally, I can swype long and accurate texts with the VKB's on my last few phones much faster than I could ever type on my 9700! All of which time-saving makes me more productive. And I'm sure that I'm not alone in that - IIRC all of the speed typing records are now held by VKB's.
    Swyping is far more accurate than tapping on a VKB, for sure. And faster than punching on a PKB imho. BUT, for the few of us that appreciate PKB there are other advantages: Accuracy is greater on a PKB in my limited experience; Using the PKB as a trackpad involves less reaching when it comes to repetitive tasks; PKB shortcuts are bottom oriented and faster - I'll take my B for bottom, T for Top and SPACE to PG DN anyday.

    It's a lost art, for sure. I started with VKB and discovered PKB late in the game and clearly see the advantages beyond simple messaging. And I'm convinced that with the proper marketing / awareness a company like BlackBerry could find a suitable, profitable niche making them. However, I'm also a realist and know that said marketing / awareness is not going to happen.
    10-14-16 09:21 PM
  2. ardakca's Avatar
    Cost doesn't appear to be a significant issue for all touch vs keyboard as some of the lowest cost phones sold by London Drugs in Canada are keyboard phones in the $30 to $60 range.
    You have 5 $ touch phones.
    10-15-16 03:31 AM
  3. JeepBB's Avatar
    I want a future with 3d keyboards projected from my smartphone, operating on induction principles so I can type in air!
    That would be great!

    Well... until the first time you used that phone in public and concerned citizens called the medics in to deal with the crazy man waving his arms about in thin air...
    10-15-16 03:35 AM
  4. cgk's Avatar
    Actually, Motorola had beat RIM/BB to the punch.

    Snip
    Thanks for that, interesting historical context I wasn't aware of.
    10-15-16 05:18 AM
  5. johnb_xp's Avatar
    There is a dedicated PKB market and almost all prefer the BB keyboard. Ya heard of the typo case? Everyone loved it because it added a BB keyboard to an iPhone. Then BB sued 'em and it was over.
    10-15-16 11:53 AM
  6. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    There is a dedicated PKB market and almost all prefer the BB keyboard. Ya heard of the typo case? Everyone loved it because it added a BB keyboard to an iPhone. Then BB sued 'em and it was over.
    The question is how big is the market?
    I would say it is small enough as to be insignificant. If there is no pkb offering these folks will buy a vkb. Maybe BlackBerry should make a "typo".
    10-15-16 12:02 PM
  7. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    The question is how big is the market?
    I would say it is small enough as to be insignificant. If there is no pkb offering these folks will buy a vkb. Maybe BlackBerry should make a "typo".
    I'm curious to know how large it is as well. I wish someone bigger than BlackBerry with money and marketing saavy would license the PKB. Even higher priced I'd still get one.
    10-15-16 12:20 PM
  8. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I'm curious to know how large it is as well. I wish someone bigger than BlackBerry with money and marketing saavy would license the PKB. Even higher priced I'd still get one.
    The problem is factoring out the other variables.
    When the PRIV did not sell, was it because of the slider/keyboard or was it the price or some other factor?
    10-15-16 12:24 PM
  9. canuckvoip's Avatar
    BlackBerry evidently thinks it's valuable enough to go patent trolling with it, as evidenced by that Typo thing.
    Incorrect use of the term troll IMHO.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    10-15-16 12:37 PM
  10. thurask's Avatar
    Incorrect use of the term troll IMHO.
    They're still definitely trolling with their other patents:

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...against-avaya/

    http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/08...-lawsuits-blu/
    10-15-16 12:48 PM
  11. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    Maybe BlackBerry should make a "typo".
    That's what I thought they should do instead of suing - either make their own or license it. I guess the prevailing wisdom of the day was that it would poach sales of BB10 devices. Two years later they are desperate to license the whole enchilada.
    10-15-16 01:12 PM
  12. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Swyping is far more accurate than tapping on a VKB, for sure. And faster than punching on a PKB imho. BUT, for the few of us that appreciate PKB there are other advantages: Accuracy is greater on a PKB in my limited experience; Using the PKB as a trackpad involves less reaching when it comes to repetitive tasks; PKB shortcuts are bottom oriented and faster - I'll take my B for bottom, T for Top and SPACE to PG DN anyday.

    It's a lost art, for sure. I started with VKB and discovered PKB late in the game and clearly see the advantages beyond simple messaging. And I'm convinced that with the proper marketing / awareness a company like BlackBerry could find a suitable, profitable niche making them. However, I'm also a realist and know that said marketing / awareness is not going to happen.
    Good points. But:
    Swyping? Faster?

    Unfortunately, it isn't, if there's nothing to swype.

    Data entry of unknown personal or family names, names of streets and places (we have plenty here in Australia : Goondiwindi, Mirriwinni, Oodnadatta, Murwillumbah, Cocoparra, and yeah... Mullumbimbi, lol!) on anything but a physical keyboard can be a total pain, especially if some overzealous autocorrect comes in the way...

    Depends on the kind of work you do. The Passport has been the best keyboard due to size, apart from the Q10 if your using symbols for technical things as well, such as RJ-11, 802.x, etc...

    :-)




      "BB10 dead?" - "Let's dance the Danse MacaBBRY! ... or is it..?" ;-D  
    idssteve likes this.
    10-15-16 01:56 PM
  13. JeepBB's Avatar
    Good points. But:
    Swyping? Faster?

    Unfortunately, it isn't, if there's nothing to swype.

    Data entry of unknown personal or family names, names of streets and places (we have plenty here in Australia : Goondiwindi, Mirriwinni, Oodnadatta, Murwillumbah, Cocoparra, and yeah... Mullumbimbi, lol!) on anything but a physical keyboard can be a total pain, especially if some overzealous autocorrect comes in the way...

    Depends on the kind of work you do. The Passport has been the best keyboard due to size, apart from the Q10 if your using symbols for technical things as well, such as RJ-11, 802.x, etc...

    :-)
    That's a fair point Prem.

    My swype'y keyboard learns words as it goes, but it can be irritating with names and such like the first couple of times when you have to pick the name out one letter at a time. Typing speed suffers ... a lot!

    It's not as bad as it could be as I think swype must have lots of clever rules under the hood, because when I reply to emails, it generally "knows" unusual words that were in the text to which I'm replying. That helps.
    10-15-16 02:34 PM
  14. farmwersteve's Avatar
    I also really like the shortcuts that a pkb offers

    In this app alone, to get to the bottom or top of a long blog or Web page, love the pkb

    I am on the priv and miss the full size, always there pkb that my pp had.

    The answer, that every manufacturer had one and all moved on is a bs argument ,that the manufacturer forced people to do.

    I make things, and if I want to make things easier or more profitable for myself, I convince my customers that they now have less choice and they will like it.

    Most new customers never knew what they were missing, and the old customers shrug their shoulders cause they have no choice anyway now.

    If Samsung or apple created the Passport phone and keyboard, it would be selling in the 10's of millions. Especially apple, their customer would juice their pants to have something truly innovative and different

    That is where the value is, license it to Apple and give their customer a choice.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    10-15-16 02:43 PM
  15. JeepBB's Avatar
    If Samsung or apple created the Passport phone and keyboard, it would be selling in the 10's of millions. Especially apple, their customer would juice their pants to have something truly innovative and different

    That is where the value is, license it to Apple and give their customer a choice.
    I don't think we'll ever know how well a PKB'd iPhone would sell because Apple is making money hand-over-fist with their current design and that doesn't seem to be about to change any time soon... so there is no reason for Apple to offer anything different.

    I've seen no evidence that more than a small set of users are demanding a PKB device period... and I'm pretty sure that most of them are members of these forums! I've certainly seen no "please Apple, give us a keyboard phone" threads on the iPhone forums, so I doubt Apple's customers are interested in the "choice" you're offering.

    There is only "value" in a patent if somebody is willing to pay to license it -and they'll only pay if they see advantage/profit to themselves in doing so. So, I doubt Apple will be buying a PKB licence off BB anytime soon.
    MikeX74 and StephanieMaks like this.
    10-15-16 03:04 PM
  16. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Good points. But:
    Swyping? Faster?

    Unfortunately, it isn't, if there's nothing to swype.

    Data entry of unknown personal or family names, names of streets and places (we have plenty here in Australia : Goondiwindi, Mirriwinni, Oodnadatta, Murwillumbah, Cocoparra, and yeah... Mullumbimbi, lol!) on anything but a physical keyboard can be a total pain, especially if some overzealous autocorrect comes in the way...

    Depends on the kind of work you do. The Passport has been the best keyboard due to size, apart from the Q10 if your using symbols for technical things as well, such as RJ-11, 802.x, etc...

    :-)




    •   "BB10 dead?" - "Let's dance the Danse MacaBBRY! ... or is it..?" ;-D   •
    I found it surprisingly accurate and fast. Yes, it does have a learning curve. I'm not a big user though, and haven't tried it in a while.

    Definitely agree on the Passport keyboard, and actually prefer the VKB sym, num, etc. Bit of a learning curve using the keyboard on the Priv as well with the alt symbol.
    10-15-16 03:41 PM
  17. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I'm curious to know how large it is as well. I wish someone bigger than BlackBerry with money and marketing saavy would license the PKB. Even higher priced I'd still get one.
    It's been done. Motorola who's exempt from the RIM/BB patents released PKB devices similar to RIM/BB devices, marketed the bejeebus out of them, and the sales were abysmal compared to the other Moto devices available at the time. And the devices were great quality devices.

    Simply put... the market simply just doesn't demand or want physical keyboards.
    DrBoomBotz and JeepBB like this.
    10-15-16 03:56 PM
  18. cgk's Avatar
    It's been done. Motorola who's exempt from the RIM/BB patents released PKB devices similar to RIM/BB devices, marketed the bejeebus out of them, and the sales were abysmal compared to the other Moto devices available at the time. And the devices were great quality devices.

    Simply put... the market simply just doesn't demand or want physical keyboards.
    I had a Motorola slider phone for a while with a keyboard - it was fantastic.
    DenverRalphy likes this.
    10-15-16 04:04 PM
  19. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I had a Motorola slider phone for a while with a keyboard - it was fantastic.
    Yeah, Motorola had quite a few PKB phones that were awesome, both slider and front facing. Unfortunately, the sales numbers didn't justify the manufacture costs. Which is why they eventually stopped the practice.
    10-15-16 04:12 PM
  20. ardakca's Avatar
    It's been done. Motorola who's exempt from the RIM/BB patents released PKB devices similar to RIM/BB devices, marketed the bejeebus out of them, and the sales were abysmal compared to the other Moto devices available at the time. And the devices were great quality devices.

    Simply put... the market simply just doesn't demand or want physical keyboards.
    https://gigaom.com/2009/11/16/how-ma...motorola-sold/

    Nice read. When droid was first introduced its rival was iphone 3GS and Apple hype wagon. Against those odds and being available only in the US Droid was a success. People got bored of all touch slabs that are on the market right now. So if BlackBerry (having unlimited cash) released a quality pkb with top specs and had marketed the hell out of it across the globe (not US) it would have a decent user base.

    PS. Droid was so ugly I feel sad for BlackBerry because people are comparing it with BBs.

    PS 2 BlackBerry brand is pretty well received in Europe and Asia. It is not hated or such. I don't understand the hate towards BlackBerry in North America actually.

    My 2 cents.
    10-15-16 04:15 PM
  21. itsyaboy's Avatar
    It's been done. Motorola who's exempt from the RIM/BB patents released PKB devices similar to RIM/BB devices, marketed the bejeebus out of them, and the sales were abysmal compared to the other Moto devices available at the time. And the devices were great quality devices.

    Simply put... the market simply just doesn't demand or want physical keyboards.
    What if Apple releases an iPhone with a physical keyboard? What if Samsung does? Those are the top brand names currently out there... if they do it and nobody buys.. then I think we can safely say nobody wants physical keyboards. I mean, not to **** on Motorola, but how big of a brand is it in the eyes of the regular consumers?
    ardakca likes this.
    10-15-16 04:17 PM
  22. cgk's Avatar

    PS 2 BlackBerry brand is pretty well received in Europe and Asia. It is not hated or such. I don't understand the hate towards BlackBerry in North America actually.

    My 2 cents.
    Sales don't support that and thinking of my local market (UK) BBRY is seen as a phone that was popular with children a few years ago and old people.

    In 2016 -it's not hated as much as forgotten and irrelevant. The last real publicity it received here was as the drug-dealers phone of choice during criminal activities and riots.
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-15-16 04:27 PM
  23. cgk's Avatar
    Yeah, Motorola had quite a few PKB phones that were awesome, both slider and front facing. Unfortunately, the sales numbers didn't justify the manufacture costs. Which is why they eventually stopped the practice.
    I still wonder where the palm keyboard IP was - during the period when the company was split into two entities the IP was sold to a company called access (I think) and the bit HP purchased had a perpetual license for it.

    Thinking about it - is there any major player without existing keyboard IP?

    (And those who do not might be covered by the fairly secret licensing most gave signed with MFST).
    10-15-16 04:31 PM
  24. ardakca's Avatar
    Sales don't support that and thinking of my local market (UK) BBRY is seen as a phone that was popular with children a few years ago and old people.

    In 2016 -it's not hated as much as forgotten and irrelevant. The last real publicity it received here was as the drug-dealers phone of choice during criminal activities and riots.
    Well in India still actors and actresses use them for example. You can't compare the sales figures with that marketing and distribution. It's like comparing Starbucks products against the beautiful coffee I make at home which I try to sell on my street.

    By the way children and old people is a huge market
    10-15-16 04:32 PM
  25. cgk's Avatar
    Well in India still actors and actresses use them for example. You can't compare the sales figures with that marketing and distribution. It's like comparing Starbucks products against the beautiful coffee I make at home which I try to sell on my street.

    By the way children and old people is a huge market
    The child market evaporated when data became cheap. At one stage I was paying for BBM data for two nieces because it was great for them to communicate with friends. Then when decent data packages came on the market, they (and everyone else moved on).
    10-15-16 04:35 PM
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