02-07-14 01:05 PM
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  1. kbz1960's Avatar
    The point is I think.......... That an android or iphone user can use BBM with no data plan over wifi. Legacy blackberry users can not.
    bambinoitaliano and Etios like this.
    10-28-13 05:13 PM
  2. R7abb's Avatar
    I think the plans must be different I'm other countries but in India you need to pay for a bis connection which buys you 2g network while for the same money one gets a 3 g plan for android through which you get access to your mails and also now Bbm. Plus on BlackBerry of you don't get a bis plan then you cannot use your Bbm even through wifi but your what's app works on wifi, where's on android even if you don't have a network plan you can access through wifi. So now tell me why this difference?


    Posted via CB10
    I get you, and i was just saying that in another thread.

    Posted via CB10
    10-28-13 05:46 PM
  3. southlander's Avatar
    there are a couple, for example, bis plans do not have internet limit, if you use your 2gigs than your internet connection will degrade to a slower speed, but in ios and android devices, you have a limit, once you used that limit, your internet connection stops. Other then that security is much better and emails go thru faster etc.
    ???

    Z10stl100-4/10.2.0.1767
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    10-28-13 05:51 PM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They might just not opt for the data plan. I've seen quite a few do that in China.
    True but they will never be the target market for any money making company.

    Posted via CB10
    10-28-13 06:18 PM
  5. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    The point is I think.......... That an android or iphone user can use BBM with no data plan over wifi. Legacy blackberry users can not.
    Yup OP has a point here. Emerging market like Indonesia and India have a huge legacy user base who need BIS to use BBM. Now that BBM gone cross platform, it opens up the choices for the legacy users, they no longer bind by BlackBerry if they do not want to spend more money on BB10 devices. They can purchase earlier generations Androids and Apples to use BBM not to mention the gazillion apps now they can download. BlackBerry just assume these legacy users will just move to BB10 which is not true.
    10-28-13 08:15 PM
  6. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    True but they will never be the target market for any money making company.

    Posted via CB10
    The carrier makes money. There's also an odd feature in the China mobile services market. The largest carrier isn't data compatible with iPhone except for EDGE service. A lot of people with who use China Mobile don't want to switch, but they like iPhones and iPads. There's a lot of them too, it's estimated 30M iPhones are on the China Mobile network, using 2G or no data. In the big 5 cities, Beijing, Shanghai, Chongqing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, WiFi is almost ubiquitous, more common than the US even. You can easily find a free WiFi spot just about anywhere within easy walking distance if you're in an urban area. It's quite easy to get by without a data package for your phone. When I lived there for a year, I had 60MB/Month service on my phone, and I was fine. In the US I typically use over 1GB.
    10-28-13 08:28 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    It should also be remembered that a huge portion of BB's income comes from BIS service fees. Granted, XBBM is going to increase the speed of people leaving BBOS (and thus, those service fees), but BBM was dying out in most areas of the world, so BB had to make a decision, and (they hope) XBBM will eventually become another source of revenue and value for the company. BBM by itself (BB's only) was a dying platform whose value was destined to go to 0 over the next couple of years of something wasn't done.

    Still, those service fees assure that BB isn't going to do anything to change the way BBM operates on legacy phones. They're still hoping to upgrade at least some of those users to BB10.
    10-28-13 08:31 PM
  8. Raestloz's Avatar
    redundant statement...redundant answer

    if you only need data..why you still need BIS Plan even if you want to access BBM on wifi ? and in several market BB charge for BBM only plan and it is more expensive than regular data plan...so that is why BBM is not free . carrier and BB still charge their customers for subscribers fee..
    Wow, 2 pages later you still don't get it.

    Think about it, no seriously, please, think about it.

    What exactly is BIS?

    It's a souped up data plan, nothing more.

    Tell me this: do you PAY for WiFi AT YOUR HOME?

    The answer would be yes, there's no getting around it. Someone has to pay for that WiFi, could be you, could be your spouse, could be your parents.

    Now, I want you to imagine an iPhone WITHOUT any data plan whatsoever. It doesn't even have SIM card inserted, and you're somewhere without WiFi (which someone has to pay)

    What can you do with that iPhone? Zilch, nada, zero, nothing.

    At the end of the day, both legacy BlackBerry devices and other smartphones require Internet connection, only the form is different, legacy BlackBerry needs BIS, other smartphones can use whatever data plan is around.

    But I predict that you won't get it, not even until America and Russia joins into one country.

    Z10 STL100-1/10.1.0.4633
    10-28-13 09:02 PM
  9. garnok's Avatar
    Wow, 2 pages later you still don't get it.

    Think about it, no seriously, please, think about it.

    What exactly is BIS?

    It's a souped up data plan, nothing more.

    Tell me this: do you PAY for WiFi AT YOUR HOME?

    The answer would be yes, there's no getting around it. Someone has to pay for that WiFi, could be you, could be your spouse, could be your parents.

    Now, I want you to imagine an iPhone WITHOUT any data plan whatsoever. It doesn't even have SIM card inserted, and you're somewhere without WiFi (which someone has to pay)

    What can you do with that iPhone? Zilch, nada, zero, nothing.

    At the end of the day, both legacy BlackBerry devices and other smartphones require Internet connection, only the form is different, legacy BlackBerry needs BIS, other smartphones can use whatever data plan is around.

    But I predict that you won't get it, not even until America and Russia joins into one country.

    Z10 STL100-1/10.1.0.4633
    read other post other than mine, many people agreed what i post...maybe you should think about it and put your objective mind on the debate..and dont try to derail this thread

    data is necessary yes...but Blackberry and carrier charging extra, much more expensive than regular data plan .even if you only opt to buy BBM only services , it is because BB as we know it they get cut from your data plan , while people who use BB10, android, iPhone they only pay for a simple data it is much cheaper and BB not getting any cut.

    besides if only data is being needed and BBM is a free product like you said why they need to blocked people who using wifi to access BBM?.

    i'm agree with belfast on my other post, like it or not BB can't change their older OS because it is not effective, costly, and eliminate BB revenue from sevices. but making a statement that BBM is free for BBOS ..no it is not you still need to pay for subscribers fee..

    i'll give you some example : netflix, you have to pay for subscribers fee while you need data plan / home wifi. the difference on BIS it's already on one package, one bill for all...everyone feeling ok about it , not mind paying for services they get...but then for new customers netflix offering free subscribers fee..but keeping the fee for existing customers . nof course there always some existing customers feel it is unfair...but in the end everyone should realize it is just a promotion period. they soon need to monetize it maybe by putting ads for the free Netflix subscribers.
    Last edited by garnok; 10-29-13 at 12:06 AM.
    10-28-13 11:41 PM
  10. kaptanp3's Avatar
    same ... wife charge husband for love and share free in the city ....

    I think the title says it all. Why does BlackBerry charge for old BlackBerry handsets like 9780 and why r they giving it free to android and ios? In India you're charged a fixed monthly plan to get Bbm services? Which to me doesn't make any sense .

    Posted via CB10
    10-29-13 12:35 AM
  11. southlander's Avatar
    The point is I think.......... That an android or iphone user can use BBM with no data plan over wifi. Legacy blackberry users can not.
    Right. I never tried it but the old BBOS as I understand it needs a BIS plan for BBM even over Wifi.

    OP BlackBerry is not likely to meddle with that part of the code in BBOS at this stage. They have nothing to gain from doing that is the simplest answer. They'd lose revenue.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767
    10-29-13 01:40 AM
  12. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Wow, 2 pages later you still don't get it.

    Think about it, no seriously, please, think about it.

    What exactly is BIS?

    It's a souped up data plan, nothing more.

    Tell me this: do you PAY for WiFi AT YOUR HOME?

    The answer would be yes, there's no getting around it. Someone has to pay for that WiFi, could be you, could be your spouse, could be your parents.

    Now, I want you to imagine an iPhone WITHOUT any data plan whatsoever. It doesn't even have SIM card inserted, and you're somewhere without WiFi (which someone has to pay)

    What can you do with that iPhone? Zilch, nada, zero, nothing.

    At the end of the day, both legacy BlackBerry devices and other smartphones require Internet connection, only the form is different, legacy BlackBerry needs BIS, other smartphones can use whatever data plan is around.

    But I predict that you won't get it, not even until America and Russia joins into one country.

    Z10 STL100-1/10.1.0.4633
    I'll make it real simple.

    Regular data plan is cheaper than BIS is many markets, which basically means there is a BIS tax. For most users in those markets, the only reason to get a BlackBerry is for BBM. Therefore, BBM is not free. You can say it until the cows come home that BBM is free and BIS is a separate service, but that's not what it really is. BBM on legacy is a tie-in product for BIS. Meaning they lure you with free BBM to get you to buy BIS. It's not much different that kids; breakfast cereals with the prizes. The prizes are technically free, but you can't get it without buying the cereal. Which means, the prizes really aren't free. Same goes for the McDonald's Happy Meals. The toys are free..... with purchase..... BBM is free...... with purchase....

    I suspect this has the potential to create a backlash in the legacy community in emerging markets.
    10-29-13 02:34 AM
  13. walcolm's Avatar
    BBM in its full capacity is free and that version of BBM is only available on BB10, iOS and Android..it allows you to use any type of data....including wifi to go about your business

    BB devices running legacy OS cannot do that because they have to use BIS. BIS put a higher level of control in the hands of network providers which means, a network provider can choose to charge an extra for BBM even after you pay for BIS.

    so your thread topic makes a generalized statement that is true with some countries and providers but is not true across the world!!!
    10-29-13 02:45 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I'll make it real simple.

    Regular data plan is cheaper than BIS is many markets, which basically means there is a BIS tax. For most users in those markets, the only reason to get a BlackBerry is for BBM. Therefore, BBM is not free. You can say it until the cows come home that BBM is free and BIS is a separate service, but that's not what it really is. BBM on legacy is a tie-in product for BIS. Meaning they lure you with free BBM to get you to buy BIS. It's not much different that kids; breakfast cereals with the prizes. The prizes are technically free, but you can't get it without buying the cereal. Which means, the prizes really aren't free. Same goes for the McDonald's Happy Meals. The toys are free..... with purchase..... BBM is free...... with purchase....

    I suspect this has the potential to create a backlash in the legacy community in emerging markets.
    How is that different from Imessage, Icloud etc? The only company that does give you things for free is Google but then you become the product and everybody knows that now.

    Posted via CB10
    10-29-13 02:46 AM
  15. tomcat23's Avatar
    I think the plans must be different I'm other countries but in India you need to pay for a bis connection which buys you 2g network while for the same money one gets a 3 g plan for android through which you get access to your mails and also now Bbm. Plus on BlackBerry of you don't get a bis plan then you cannot use your Bbm even through wifi but your what's app works on wifi, where's on android even if you don't have a network plan you can access through wifi. So now tell me why this difference?


    Posted via CB10
    You can get a Blackberry 3g connection too for the same amount of money you pay for 3g on Android or iOS. Just call up Airtel BlackBerry support and ask them. You don't have the complete facts.
    10-29-13 02:49 AM
  16. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    Cheaper z10s and q5s are on the way soon, and are the best BIS-free BBM devices on the market. BlackBerry should cut the price of BIS and also start giving an additional discount or trade-in for BBOS users in markets like this to upgrade to bb10 devices. That's the only way to stem the tide.

    Posted via CB10
    10-29-13 03:32 AM
  17. garnok's Avatar
    How is that different from Imessage, Icloud etc? The only company that does give you things for free is Google but then you become the product and everybody knows that now.

    Posted via CB10

    iMessage, iCloud not entirely a free services i think it's better being called exclusive
    services because you pay it before, by buying their hardware .but at least you're not paying them subscribers fee. apple only using iCloud, iMessage to keep you still using their product.

    while with BBOS you have to pay not only for the hardware, you also need to pay subscribers fee to access their full services (BIS : BBM, Browsing, Push email, etc) or their limited service (exp : BBM+push email, or BBM only) some people think it's free product because they only get one bill, but it is not.

    Google just copy TV company strategies...TV company giving us free shows/news on the expense we watch the ads. but google do it more extreme/specific..instead of just getting statistic data from samples , they can get statistic data from everyone who using their products...for some people it is okay for some people it is invaded their privacy.
    10-29-13 03:46 AM
  18. Shivers1zn's Avatar
    You're not making any sense.

    BBM for Android and BBM for iOS both requires Internet connection to function

    In order to have Internet connection, you need to pay for data plan for your smartphone or set up a WiFi connection at home, which means you get to pay too.

    In order to use BBM for BlackBerry OS, you need BIS data plan, which also means you get to pay either.

    I do not see any "free" whatsoever in those scenarios.

    Z10 STL100-1/10.1.0.4633

    Exactly! And on BB10 devices without BIS it works exactly the same way, you have "free" access to BBM but you still have to pay for data fees
    10-29-13 03:48 AM
  19. FFR's Avatar
    The carrier makes money. There's also an odd feature in the China mobile services market. The largest carrier isn't data compatible with iPhone except for EDGE service. A lot of people with who use China Mobile don't want to switch, but they like iPhones and iPads. There's a lot of them too, it's estimated 30M iPhones are on the China Mobile network, using 2G or no data. In the big 5 cities, Beijing, Shanghai, Chongqing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, WiFi is almost ubiquitous, more common than the US even. You can easily find a free WiFi spot just about anywhere within easy walking distance if you're in an urban area. It's quite easy to get by without a data package for your phone. When I lived there for a year, I had 60MB/Month service on my phone, and I was fine. In the US I typically use over 1GB.
    Roo- a slight correction, 72 million iPhone users on china mobile using edge.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    10-29-13 03:48 AM
  20. foryan2785's Avatar
    I think the title says it all. Why does BlackBerry charge for old BlackBerry handsets like 9780 and why r they giving it free to android and ios? In India you're charged a fixed monthly plan to get Bbm services? Which to me doesn't make any sense .

    Posted via CB10
    stupid think....

    Sent from my AD683G using Tapatalk 2
    10-29-13 03:51 AM
  21. Craigash's Avatar
    They don' lure you for anything. If you buy a BlackBerry legacy device, you are require to buy a monthly subscription of BIS. If you don't what's the point in buying the phone in the first place as it will be useless

    Posted via CB10
    10-29-13 04:30 AM
  22. Craigash's Avatar
    This is all one big joke. You Need BIS to run many Apps that you download and install free from BlackBerry World. If you want to use BBM, use it, if you don't, then don't, it's your choice. You choose. There's millions of people that use legacy devices with BIS and don't have the time of day for BBM, Facebook and other free to use and install Apps.

    Next you'll be moaning that you have to Pay for Facebook, Twitter etc etc. As they require BIS LOL



    Posted via CB10
    10-29-13 04:37 AM
  23. Craigash's Avatar
    BlackBerry don't charge for BIS. It's the Network that charges you.

    Posted via CB10
    10-29-13 05:36 AM
  24. McCorp's Avatar
    BlackBerry don't charge for BIS. It's the Network that charges you.

    Posted via CB10
    Incorrect - BB doesn't charge the end-user, but charges the providers who then passes it along (in some + or - percent of actual cost) to the consumer. That is like saying BES is free, which we all know is not.
    10-29-13 08:21 AM
  25. diegonei's Avatar
    Btw, you don't need bis for bbm on bbos if you have wifi. I have tested it several times on a blackberry that had no service and only wifi. It has worked perfectly.
    Wrong. You need BIS on ALL legacy devices. Period.

    Just because an BIS-active device can use BBM on Wi-Fi, does not mean a fresh out of the box, never on BIS Bold will work.

    Gee.

    Posted via CB10
    10-29-13 08:37 AM
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