[The Big Picture]

Consumers don't care about WHY. They care about what the phone they buy TODAY, does TODAY. It's not their issue that BB took 6-7 years to answer the iPhone/Android - what they see is that the latest iPhone or Android phone does a ton of things that the BB either can't do or can't do well, and they look at the lack of an ecosystem (no tablet, no wearables, no cloud services, poor media offerings, weak app store), and the decision to bypass BB is easy. Why should they choose BB and give up the things they're used to having on other platforms? The hub? Gestures? These are not going to be enough.

No one cared WHY a Yugo car was crappy, they just knew that it was crappy, and so Yugo sold very few despite the low price. Very few cared that it was Yugoslavia's first car export, or that they didn't have 80 years of experience building cars. They had to compete against the cars of the day, and if they couldn't compete, then they failed in the market.

Most consumers aren't brand-loyal, because they know the companies have no particular loyalty to them either. They buy the product that gives them the best bang for their buck, and meets their needs and desires the best. WHY it does that, or doesn't, isn't their problem or their concern.

Thus why BlackBerry is going enterprise focused as they once were. Consumer secondary. Even then they will be targeting a very specific sub market called "prosumers".

They really shouldn't have shifted focus in the first place but then again its all in hindsight now.

Security will become "the thing to have" one day I believe, looking at how things are going. And thats when BlackBerry devices will have their day again.

Until then BlackBerry just has to grow their software and services business as their main revenue drivers, keeping making devices to suit their specific target market and "keep on moving".





Z30, Q10, Z10, iP5, SGS3

[BobWalker]

Who says they failed? They developed the most advanced operating system on the market right now. It's only been a year since BB10 launched, and it's got a much bigger market share globally than Android, IPhone or Windows phone had a year out.

Nobody expected BB10 to take over the world in one year, and if they did, they're stup!d. I see a lot more of these things around than I did iPhones a year after I got mine.

Let's revisit this supposed failure in about 18 months.

And anybody who types "BB" to indicate BlackBerry is not using one.

[dehdude]

Just remember it took how long for windows platform to gain traction? Windows 7 then windows 8 and a year into that a little uptake.

BB10 has not failed, marketing definitely, but it has so much potential and even 1 year in is pushing other 7year old OS's for features and speed.

Stop spewing negativity OP like a few small features was the cause for the low sales.. I'm thinking more lack of apps, no marketing, bad image, and overpricing hardware caused the low sale volume.


Posted via CB10

[spikesolie]

Consumers don't care about WHY. They care about what the phone they buy TODAY, does TODAY. It's not their issue that BB took 6-7 years to answer the iPhone/Android - what they see is that the latest iPhone or Android phone does a ton of things that the BB either can't do or can't do well, and they look at the lack of an ecosystem (no tablet, no wearables, no cloud services, poor media offerings, weak app store), and the decision to bypass BB is easy. Why should they choose BB and give up the things they're used to having on other platforms? The hub? Gestures? These are not going to be enough.

No one cared WHY a Yugo car was crappy, they just knew that it was crappy, and so Yugo sold very few despite the low price. Very few cared that it was Yugoslavia's first car export, or that they didn't have 80 years of experience building cars. They had to compete against the cars of the day, and if they couldn't compete, then they failed in the market.

Most consumers aren't brand-loyal, because they know the companies have no particular loyalty to them either. They buy the product that gives them the best bang for their buck, and meets their needs and desires the best. WHY it does that, or doesn't, isn't their problem or their concern.

Did you happen to read past that first section of the post? I criticized blackberry so idk why you are giving me that lecture of a post. My point being regardless you will see bugs on OS updates. That shouldn't be the major reason they failed

Posted via CB10

[crackberry_geek]

Just remember it took how long for windows platform to gain traction? Windows 7 then windows 8 and a year into that a little uptake.

BB10 has not failed, marketing definitely, but it has so much potential and even 1 year in is pushing other 7year old OS's for features and speed.

Stop spewing negativity OP like a few small features was the cause for the low sales.. I'm thinking more lack of apps, no marketing, bad image, and overpricing hardware caused the low sale volume.


Posted via CB10

Yes BB10 has failed. It is nothing like the Windows platform. In that case, at least everyone knew about the Windows phones.

In BlackBerry case, no one outside the fan boy club even knows BB10 exists. And even if they did, they wouldn't know where to buy one.

Posted with Z10 via CB10

[WorkStation 0]

It is unknown wether or not BlackBerry Will ultimately fail. There is a strong likelihood that BlackBerry Will fail given performance over the past three years.

I would suggest that BlackBerry as a consumer hardware brand has failed. This is not reflective of the company overall. It may be in BlackBerrys best interest to leave the consumer market altogether and offer devices/services directly. All marketing to the enterprise sector while selling directly to anyone online.

[sjmartin007]

Nice hypothesis. Now why is it the other OS have their share of issues but no says the are finished.

Posted via CB10

[robsteve]

Blaze mentioned it in another thread and I agree, the BB10 developers probably didn't use BBOS and weren't aware of all the BB 7 and earlier shortcuts. It either that or they were told to tailor the new OS to Apple or Android users so it seemed familiar to them.

I don't think BlackBerry has failed in all markets, perhaps on in the USA for the time being.

[acovey]

Title should read "Why BB FALTERED" not failed. BB will have failed when I can no longer buy one, don't see that happening.

[crackberry_geek]

Nice hypothesis. Now why is it the other OS have their share of issues but no says the are finished.

Posted via CB10

Because at least most everybody knows about the other hardware and OS...and knew since it's inception due to effective marketing. And because almost anyone could figure out where to buy one of those devices without resorting to a sleuthing adventure.

Neither of those can be said about BB10 devices.

Posted with Z10 via CB10

[BobWalker]

Title should read "Why BB FALTERED" not failed. BB will have failed when I can no longer buy one, don't see that happening.

Well stated.

People have such a short attention span nowadays. A year is a very short time, even in the tech business. BlackBerry -- and BB10 specifically -- has a lot of unique selling points and strong technical advantages in many ways. I'm a few months into my BB10 adventure, and it's still impressing and delighting me. At this point into my last phone, I wanted to smash the damn thing with a hammer. As long as BlackBerry keeps its eye on the ball and keeps innovating, they will be just fine.

[crackberry_geek]

Title should read "Why BB FALTERED" not failed. BB will have failed when I can no longer buy one, don't see that happening.

The average person cannot but one NOW!

They're on display...uhmmm...virtually NO WHERE!

To buy one you have to be a fan boy already and search one out on the internet.

You can't even hold one in your hands first to see how it feels.

I don't know who wouldn't call that failure.

Posted with Z10 via CB10

[spikesolie]

The average person cannot but one NOW!

They're on display...uhmmm...virtually NO WHERE!

To buy one you have to be a fan boy already and search one out on the internet.

You can't even hold one in your hands first to see how it feels.

I don't know who wouldn't call that failure.

Posted with Z10 via CB10

Did someone from blackberry put a hot ironrod in your wrong hole?

Posted via CB10

[diehardbbuser]

Who says they failed? They developed the most advanced operating system on the market right now. It's only been a year since BB10 launched, and it's got a much bigger market share globally than Android, IPhone or Windows phone had a year out.

Nobody expected BB10 to take over the world in one year, and if they did, they're stup!d. I see a lot more of these things around than I did iPhones a year after I got mine.

Let's revisit this supposed failure in about 18 months.

And anybody who types "BB" to indicate BlackBerry is not using one.

1st off.. the expectation of it being at least as good as their old OS is definitely within expectation and reason! It's not as if they didn't have a benchmark to judge themselves from.. let alone within their own teams! Its not as if they are a year1 company developing from scratch... the invented pagers.. dominated secure communications and where the go to device and os for major governments and military! Expecting BB0S to come out of the gate as good as BBOS and scaleable to something greater is definitely a bare minimum expectation. You make it seem like Blackberry/RIM in 2013 was a crowd surfed concept, funded by a handful of early adopters and just tried to make it work out.. that's hardly the case. They had ten's of thousands of programmers, long established carrier relationships yadda yadda.

As for taking over the phone market... they were a double digit market share.. there was ZERO reason to believe they couldn't have kept that and taken even more of a market share from iOS which has been pretty stagnant or the fragments Android crap and Windows mobile .. yet the did just the opposit and nose dived hard and fast. We all know why.. BB10 at launch sucked .. period. device sucked.. period.

Maybe you didn't but then you're not realistic in your expectations of a billion dollar company, with one of the slickets legacy mobile phone and email OS period but it just needed to be made current to address memory issues and latest spec hardware... they got the internet experience sorted.. just not apps but now 10.2 addresses that in a very unflattering way.. we cant get programmers on board to native it so all users will have to experience another OS apps just to keep you happy..

[spikesolie]

1st off.. the expectation of it being at least as good as their old OS is definitely within expectation and reason! It's not as if they didn't have a benchmark to judge themselves from.. let alone within their own teams! Its not as if they are a year1 company developing from scratch... the invented pagers.. dominated secure communications and where the go to device and os for major governments and military! Expecting BB0S to come out of the gate as good as BBOS and scaleable to something greater is definitely a bare minimum expectation. You make it seem like Blackberry/RIM in 2013 was a crowd surfed concept, funded by a handful of early adopters and just tried to make it work out.. that's hardly the case. They had ten's of thousands of programmers, long established carrier relationships yadda yadda.

As for taking over the phone market... they were a double digit market share.. there was ZERO reason to believe they couldn't have kept that and taken even more of a market share from iOS which has been pretty stagnant or the fragments Android crap and Windows mobile .. yet the did just the opposit and nose dived hard and fast. We all know why.. BB10 at launch sucked .. period. device sucked.. period.

Maybe you didn't but then you're not realistic in your expectations of a billion dollar company, with one of the slickets legacy mobile phone and email OS period but it just needed to be made current to address memory issues and latest spec hardware... they got the internet experience sorted.. just not apps but now 10.2 addresses that in a very unflattering way.. we cant get programmers on board to native it so all users will have to experience another OS apps just to keep you happy..

You make it sound like bb10 is worse than os7... the major reason for 10 not picking up (apart from lack of advertising) is that the name is often thought of in relations with os7.. the os they left behind

Posted via CB10

[AmritD]

Agreed the title should have been why BB faultered.
But just because the OS is new doesn't give them an excuse to not improve. When you come out with a new OS, you always improve, not downgrade the existing awesome features. And also why will consumers wait for the software to mature and develop when the competition is already far ahead ? Is it the consumers' fault that BBRY has a new OS and needs to develop. All I am saying is that had BBRY not made these fundamental mistakes in their OS, I am sure they would have really taken off. Because the whole concept of their OS, is far more advanced than competition.

[belfastdispatcher]

I think they could have shot up their sales by naming their OS simply QNX( it sounds good ) instead of confusing BB10. they've skipped 8 and 9 somewhere in between. That's sad. Also, bbos7 is a very pretty OS, but BIS is the problem. I don't think majority now prefers to pay extra for data compression. And the BBOS7 devices are pretty cheap, but running internet on them is pretty expensive. whereas BB10 is expensive, but running it is cheap(internet wise). Blackberry has indeed messed up big time.
there's no customer orientation as of now. no target audience. devices which are affordable by young bb fans are pretty heavy on internet plans. And bb10 is very expensive. Also, poor advertising. Half of my friends don't even know what blackberry10 is. and they love to hate it, as they still believe that its a primitive device manufacturer.
I wish blackberry considers my opinion

Not all carriers made you pay extra for BIS, I never did since 2008. The data plans cost the same as on other platforms but the data lasts so much longer.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

[bakron1]

The average person cannot but one NOW!

They're on display...uhmmm...virtually NO WHERE!

To buy one you have to be a fan boy already and search one out on the internet.

You can't even hold one in your hands first to see how it feels.

I don't know who wouldn't call that failure.

Posted with Z10 via CB10

Here in the USA that is a true statement. I have shown my new z30 to allot of folks and have even converted a few back to the Blackberry brand, but!!!!

With T Mobile not even selling the brand in their store here anymore and support is virtually non existent?? Without product support or customer service, your dead in the water with the consumer and that's why the brand is all but dead here in the USA.

My question has always been the same one? Where the hell is the support and dedication for us dedicated users here in the USA from the folks in those corporate offices up there in Waterloo???


Sent using the CB app

[peregrineay]

the biggest problem was the marketing and the direction they gambled on.

Simply contrast the Superbowl ad with this:

[zensen]

BlackBerry new os is pretty much up there with most new os releases.

Ios came with some blaring issues like no copy paste.

Android was slow and clunky and it took until android 4.0 to become something I believe was capable of toppling apple.

Windows 8 finally fixed a lot issues with windows phone 7 and it wasn't until the impending release of 8 that support for apps started coming. The os was finally sharing it's cross platform dreams with the desktop. That was what 2 years?

I think it lacks decent notification center, something BlackBerry 10 had from the beginning.

And.. we're blaming BlackBerry for issues that weren't present that caused it to fail or falter?
I think time constraints and bickering caused a lot of internal issues but it was incapable os on release. BlackBerry 10 was targeted as an os for everyone not just. Die hard BlackBerry fans.

I would have loved to have seen delete from server sooner but we can see these updates after a year that were seeing these legacy options coming back. BlackBerry are listening to its users.


My point is BlackBerry suffered from the media that was incapable of thinking for themselves. Throwing in issues from legacy devices, negative news about the founders and lastly apps.

It didn't help that they were nitpicking at the hardware which is still capable now.

Apps apps apps
We're still missing a few but with an updated android runtime I still believe the app issue isn't a big deal unlike what the first reviews said.

Marketing didn't help but perception is hard to change when you've got the media making it so polarising.

It didn't help that BlackBerry screwed it up with carriers

I truly believe it wasn't the operating system but the media and the carriers who said would stand by them.

Chen is looking to change all that... he better or history will repeat

[JeepBB]

Blaze mentioned it in another thread and I agree, the BB10 developers probably didn't use BBOS and weren't aware of all the BB 7 and earlier shortcuts. It either that or they were told to tailor the new OS to Apple or Android users so it seemed familiar to them.
.

There were a series of posts about a month ago from someone who worked for BB during the BB10 development.

The way he tells it, the BB10 guys were mostly new, full of themselves (coz they were building "THE FUTURE!!!"), and didn't think they had any lessons to learn from the BB7 guys sitting in the corner.

The two teams apparently never spoke in any meaningful way to each other. BB10 was pretty much developed as a clean-sheet-of-paper exercise, and most of the legacy know-how from BB7 was ignored.

His opinion, which I share, was that this non-communication and wheel-reinventing was what led to a large number of legacy features missing in 10.0, and bugs in the BB10 implementation of no-brainer BB bread and butter stuff that hadn't been an issue to BB in the past. E.G. Anyone recall BB10's "issues" with replying to email - it was all over the forums at the time. A BB phone that couldn't do email properly!

[Jerale Hoard]

1st off.. the expectation of it being at least as good as their old OS is definitely within expectation and reason! It's not as if they didn't have a benchmark to judge themselves from.. let alone within their own teams! Its not as if they are a year1 company developing from scratch... the invented pagers.. dominated secure communications and where the go to device and os for major governments and military! Expecting BB0S to come out of the gate as good as BBOS and scaleable to something greater is definitely a bare minimum expectation. You make it seem like Blackberry/RIM in 2013 was a crowd surfed concept, funded by a handful of early adopters and just tried to make it work out.. that's hardly the case. They had ten's of thousands of programmers, long established carrier relationships yadda yadda.

As for taking over the phone market... they were a double digit market share.. there was ZERO reason to believe they couldn't have kept that and taken even more of a market share from iOS which has been pretty stagnant or the fragments Android crap and Windows mobile .. yet the did just the opposit and nose dived hard and fast. We all know why.. BB10 at launch sucked .. period. device sucked.. period.

Maybe you didn't but then you're not realistic in your expectations of a billion dollar company, with one of the slickets legacy mobile phone and email OS period but it just needed to be made current to address memory issues and latest spec hardware... they got the internet experience sorted.. just not apps but now 10.2 addresses that in a very unflattering way.. we cant get programmers on board to native it so all users will have to experience another OS apps just to keep you happy..

" .. yet the did just the opposit and nose dived hard and fast. We all know why.. BB10 at launch sucked .. period. device sucked.. period."




According to the video BlackBerry didn't suck at launch. That's were you are wrong. Stocks constantly rose and kept rising after the launch. It didn't nose dive until Thorsten Heinz announced that the PlayBook won't get BB10 and sells didn't meet analyst expectations which imo wasn't really far off their expectations. Once he made that announcement that was when it sunked low. At the time of launch BlackBerry was at $16.00 and constantly rose to about $20.00, then after the Q2 earnings report fell as low as $9.00 I believe. After that things just got worse until Chen stepped in and got stock up to $10.00. I've actually been keeping watch of the markets.




Posted via CB10

[crackberry_geek]

Here in the USA that is a true statement. I have shown my new z30 to allot of folks and have even converted a few back to the Blackberry brand, but!!!!

With T Mobile not even selling the brand in their store here anymore and support is virtually non existent?? Without product support or customer service, your dead in the water with the consumer and that's why the brand is all but dead here in the USA.

My question has always been the same one? Where the hell is the support and dedication for us dedicated users here in the USA from the folks in those corporate offices up there in Waterloo???


Sent using the CB app

EXACTLY...how in the h377 do they intend to find success when all they seem to care about is Jakarta!

Posted with Z10 via CB10

[JeepBB]

EXACTLY...how in the h377 do they intend to find success when all they seem to care about is Jakarta!

I think I can understand BB's current obsession with Jakarta... if the phone that Foxconn release in Indonesia in a few months isn't a roaring success (where, success=sales), then BB should probably just forget trying to re-build consumer marketshare elsewhere (such as the US). At that point BB might as well give the hardware division to Foxconn and let Foxconn see if they can find a market that truly wants BB10.

[WES51]

I know there are a lot of threads discussing this but still wanted to pen down my thoughts in case BBRY is listening
It was really shocking how BB screwed up with their OS when they had such a great chance with BB10 to really come back in the market.
why did it fail ? one thing that I just couldnt understand was that why did it take them 3 Software releases to bring back speed dialing ? was that feature something that required some complex coding ?
Why did they screw up with search feature ? search on BBOS was so instantaneous , it was amazing but on BB10 even with all the Ram and processing power it starts off with a lag ? why ? Please improve that in future builds. PLEASE.
Even now , with QNX at its heart , the software still has so many bugs and issues like texting problems, slow boot up, the battery doesnt charge completely at times , the phone just shuts off. I feel more than anything BBRY should completely take care of all these small but irritating bugs. when will we see a Glitch free phone from BBRY ?
I feel more than the apps, people were more let down by all this, as to how the software was still so amateur that it even removed some the so useful features of BBOS. Why would it take them 3 software releases to bring custom profiles ? Why not have it from the start ?
Why did the screw up with the BBM emoticons ? New isn't always better. BBRY please if you are listening . listen to what loyalists want. and make it a glitch free and the fastest OS.

The problem seems to be that Blackberry isn't THE Blackberry any more that we used to know and most people used to love.

What is left is a company who is producing a bunch of excuses AND some users who seem to be perfectly OK with it.

I would fire every one of those who produce all of these exuses AND even those who are here on CB trying to explain those excuses, regardless what job they are in.

It is getting upsetting to see how many people are ready to settle for less in their lives. That kind of attidtude is sure something that no organisation does apperciate.