[abwan11]

Rim is reinventing itself and the consensus seems to suggest that the way they are precieved now will have an impact on their ability to succeed into the future regardless of the new platforms capabilty. From a brand perspective I believe this idea is false.

Blackberry is in a special group of brands that will live on regardless of the future. They've proved themselves already. They succeeded at creating brand power. Mainstream marketing was not the reason for their success, personality was.

Blackberry is the gate keeper it has three keys to its success two are already unlocked. Who rim was, is and will be.

[madman0141]

Well if a company has already proved itself so be it but they must adapt to the growing needs of the consumer and continue developing new products or that company will cease to exist. It helps to have a like able image but in the end it is how the company develops its products and gives the consumer the impression they need the product. Example of failure was the Brother Company who developed typewriters and then word processors as soon as the home computer hit the markets they were done. No they are not out of business but they are not a leader anymore. Not disagreeing with you but I look at it differently.

[abwan11]

Well if a company has already proved itself so be it but they must adapt to the growing needs of the consumer and continue developing new products or that company will cease to exist. It helps to have a like able image but in the end it is how the company develops its products and gives the consumer the impression they need the product. Example of failure was the Brother Company who developed typewriters and then word processors as soon as the home computer hit the markets they were done. No they are not out of business but they are not a leader anymore. Not disagreeing with you but I look at it differently.

From what I know Brother didn't attempt to make a computer. So they weren't in it to compete. If you look at a brand like corvette who have a brand following and industry watch what they are doing I believe there are closer similarities in terms of brand power. Some years were bad and not so impressive over other offerings but they adjusted to meet their customers wants and regained their status. If the two seater sports car becomes obsolete or undesirable for consumers then I believe corvette will fail regardless. In the same way if smartphones become outdated or rim decides not to compete then I believe it will end there but I don't see that happening at this time.

[kbz1960]

Well I don't know about RIM but it sure seems that blackberry is like mentioning the plague anymore to anyone who even doesn't know anything about blackberry other than what they read and hear.

They had a great brand and image not so long ago but that has changed, just ask anyone that isn't holding one and is using one of the others. Or go into a store and ask for one. I hope they can change this image they have now but it isn't going to be easy. But then again consumers are fickle.

Edit to say in the USA

[kraski]

Well if a company has already proved itself so be it but they must adapt to the growing needs of the consumer and continue developing new products or that company will cease to exist. It helps to have a like able image but in the end it is how the company develops its products and gives the consumer the impression they need the product. Example of failure was the Brother Company who developed typewriters and then word processors as soon as the home computer hit the markets they were done. No they are not out of business but they are not a leader anymore. Not disagreeing with you but I look at it differently.

IIRC, Brother did make a very weak attempt at a low level computer. Too little for too much money. They were in a niche market with no expertise to handle breaking out of it.

When you compare that to RIM, you've got a company that handles software, hardware and services. RIM isn't stuck in a box like Brother was. And RIM has brought other companies and personnel on board to grow along with the market. They were late in doing so. And they now have a negative image to correct. So, the change is probably going to take longer than anyone would like. But, unlike Brother, it will happen.

[jrohland]

RIM, and the fans of BlackBerry devices are going to have to accept RIM's new place in the pantheon of Mobile. BlackBerry is going to have a small dedicated customer base. Enterprises and people who care about their privacy will always want BB devices. Although the Enterprise could be taken by Microsoft. If that happens, RIM could be done in the phone market. At least in the "west".

[anthogag]

Only trolls spew garbage like they're in it to...be a niche player. A small customer base

I pity the fool that believes the competition is unbeatable

The only thing android and iPhone5 will throw at customers is better specs, otherwise it's same difference. It's quite possible developers will believe in BB10 (with RIM incentives) and there'll be a plethora of apps at launch.

[kbz1960]

Who you calling trolls? Never said the others are unbeatable. You don't think they have a steep hill to climb? It can be done but it sure isn't going to be easy esp with the reputation they seem to have right now.

I've been quite the supporter but I also can be critical where it fits.

[louzer]

RIM is a serious player in the enterprise market who is going through a difficult period of transition. The acquisition of QNX and the decision to make QNX the core of their technology forced a from-the-ground-up rework of most of it's products and services. These products and services are already pretty clearly defined, however. RIM is a company sitting in a coccoon right now reinventing itself waiting to emerge as (hopefully) a beautiful butterfly and not an unwanted moth.

[anthogag]

A supporter doesn't dump on RIM. IMO jrohland's remarks are troll gibberish

BB10 will be a great product, carriers will support it because it's 4G LTE and it will be a new good choice for consumers

[hurds]

A supporter doesn't dump on RIM. IMO jrohland's remarks are troll gibberish

BB10 will be a great product, carriers will support it because it's 4G LTE and it will be a new good choice for consumers

I disagree. Jrohland seems like hes a RIM supporter. He may just not see RIM dominating. I can. They have taken a global approach and I think they are getting slammed hard here in US because its the competitions stronghold. RIM is has an extremely capable mobile communications platfrom in BB7 that is superior in many ways to the other platforms and is going to very succuessful for some time globally. If that was all they had they would still be around for a while. But we all know how much work they've done, all the acquisitions they've made and all the changes they continue to make while the competition appears to be standing still. With BB10 they have a platform that could explode in popularity. Variants of it are already in our playbooks and over 25 millions cars. I don't think any other mobile company can compare to RIMs verticle integration. Even if they were only a niche player they could still be very profitable but in the long run I don't see them as a niche player.

[anthogag]

I disagree. Jrohland seems like hes a RIM supporter. He may just not see RIM dominating. I can. They have taken a global approach and I think they are getting slammed hard here in US because its the competitions stronghold. RIM is has an extremely capable mobile communications platfrom in BB7 that is superior in many ways to the other platforms and is going to very succuessful for some time globally. If that was all they had they would still be around for a while. But we all know how much work they've done, all the acquisitions they've made and all the changes they continue to make while the competition appears to be standing still. With BB10 they have a platform that could explode in popularity. Variants of it are already in our playbooks and over 25 millions cars. I don't think any other mobile company can compare to RIMs verticle integration. Even if they were only a niche player they could still be very profitable but in the long run I don't see them as a niche player.

He underlined small

[hurds]

He underlined small

True, but he said dedicated user base. So he may mean the small users base that who only use BBs. The majority of people are average consumers who are fickle and wouldn't be part of the dedicated user base. But a lot of those fickle consumers can be swayed by flashy new devices.

[Blacklatino]

Who you calling trolls? Never said the others are unbeatable. You don't think they have a steep hill to climb? It can be done but it sure isn't going to be easy esp with the reputation they seem to have right now.

I've been quite the supporter but I also can be critical where it fits.

JMHO.
I agree with you.
First, I'm just as faithful to my brand of choice, BlackBerry, as I have always been. But, call it like it is. Meaning, it's not just the media that has opinions about what's happening. Second, no one should have to apologize for having an opinion about what is going on with RIM. It doesn't make anyone less supportive or a effin' troll. BTW, I still have 5 of my 8 personal BlackBerries and I have "NO" problem saying RIM has to put in extra work regarding damage control. Already done? Ok, do more. Third, if the device is ready(I know...let me dream), test/release it(early), and pub the h*ll out of it. LOL. RIM should have ppl going to bed and wake up after dreaming about BlackBerries. No, it will not be a simple task. What is simple is continuing to slip/trip/fall deeper into the hole while trying to climb out based on assumptions of the past. Hopefully, Thorsten is the man that can steer the ship thru troubled waters.

[BigBadWulf]

I'll be Boldly blunt. Suck it up and grow a set. You don't have to be blind to believe. They've stumbled greatly along the way, and most of us who are critical continue to pray for a bright future, along with giving credit where credit is due. Screaming troll is not a substitute for debate.

[louzer]

I'll be Boldly blunt. Suck it up and grow a set. You don't have to be blind to believe. They've stumbled greatly along the way, and most of us who are critical continue to pray for a bright future, along with giving credit where credit is due. Screaming troll is not a substitute for debate.

Personally, I think that the emotions that some of these discussions evoke speaks volumes about the level of brand loyalty within these forums. It gets way out of control some times, but I'll take the heated debate anyday over sheer apathy. But screaming troll is a copout.

An old uncle of mine used to tell me that people who intruduce "f you" in an argument automatically lose because they've obviously run out of intelligent arguments and are relying on a catch-all. Screaming 'troll' can be considered the same.

It's one thing if someone comes in here and just intentionally drops a stink bomb and runs. It's another thing if someone has a legitimate gripe and articulates it intelligently.

[belfastdispatcher]

BlackBerry is an extremely successful brand, everybody and their dog knows what BlackBerry is. As a brand it couldn't be more successful.

[jrohland]

I'm repeating what Herr Heins inferred (in my opinion) that RIM will not get a large user base back in America. It will have the bulk of the Enterprise market, unless Microsoft gets it's act together. RIM will have a consistent, small user base in America. RIM is not going to spend it's self broke trying to beat Anroid in America.

RIM has the emerging market, for now. I do think Anroid is going to take those markets unless RIM can explain the cost of data usage.

Putting it all together, RIM is going to have about 9% of the worldwide smartphone market. They should have 90%+ of government and 60% of the enterprise. Get used to that.

[Pete6]

RIM has three real money making arms to its tree.

1). Handset sales.
2). Network revenues from carriers who sell BIS to most of us.
3). A huge store of patents

The public perception of RIM has changed or has been changed for it. I believe that a lot of RIM's negative publicity in the US was genereted by another company who set out to make a name for themselves in the handset business.

I say this becuase teh negative publicity seemed to confine itself to North America. Elsewhere RIM has been pretty well.

My criticism of RIm is that they are sooo sloooow to bring new products to market. New BlackBerry phones come along just fine and this proves that RIM understands it's markets well but, come on guys, its waaay past time for BB10 to be out.

[jthep]

I wish they would go back to being the maker of phones with the best QWERTY keyboards. Only having the "London" all touch BB for BB10 seems like suicide, I wouldn't buy one. I really want to see an announcement of a slider Torch or a traditional looking Bold or RIM will be isolating their fans...

[Blacklatino]

I wish they would go back to being the maker of phones with the best QWERTY keyboards. Only having the "London" all touch BB for BB10 seems like suicide, I wouldn't buy one. I really want to see an announcement of a slider Torch or a traditional looking Bold or RIM will be isolating their fans...

Yeah. It would be nice if two BB10s were released at the same time....one with a keyboard or slider, and the full touch. Either way, sooner is better than later. Personally, I can wait until next year for something with a keyboard or slider. But, I'm for whatever will change the publics' (new consumers, former BB owners and the media) perception so RIM can "eventually" get from under the dark cloud.

[kill_9]

A great start for the consumer user base would be BlackBerry Protect enhancements which eliminate the need for BlackBerry Desktop Software. With the acquisition of the cloud services firm earlier this year, or was it late last year, Research In Motion could offer BlackBerry Internet Service (BIS) subscribers 10GB-15GB (free with BIS subscription) storage including a feature to automatically backup their smartphone and/or tablet along with an application on the smartphone or tablet to manually initiate a backup. Additional storage could be purchased for nominal monthly fee, or integration with third-party cloud storage services for storage beyond the base 10GB-15GB. Just a thought on behalf of BIS subscribers. As a BES subscriber most of the content on my smartphone is automatically backed up to the BlackBerry Enterprise Server.

[hurds]

A difficulty RIMs has is somewhat being in competition with carriers, moreso in US. I believe BB10 will be a marked improvement to what the competition is offering but it may take a year to a few years for the majority of people to realize this, during which time it will continue to be developed and will gain momentum. People act like it happened over night for the other platforms but it took time. I think a lot of whats happening now is based on business timelines and it wouldn't make sense to make a transition too early when they have a completely capable platform that is comparable to the competition. Add that to the fact RIM has zero incentive to release something thats not completely finished and thorougly scruntinized after seeing what happened with the PB release. Right now the problem for RIM is they were attacked in a battle of perception that RIM either didn't see coming or doesn't care to fight. I think their aim is long term and and they may not be seen in a favorable position currently but things arent going to play out over the next year. People are going to be buying personal computers/mobile communication devices for a long time. Even if RIM becomes only a niche player I'd rather be them based on the competitions business models, products and platforms. But thats just who RIM is to me.

[editionfws]

Well they have to start somewhere with bb10. And one phone is the way to do it. Once they get all the kinks worked out, it will be easy to release other form factors. And when its time to release bb10, I think we will see more than one choice of phone. Well I hope anyway.
And I do think RIM has more plans about a slider and a bold style phone for bb10 than we know. I'm sure there is already a prototype. With the new head and all the changes in RIM, they are good at keeping things under wraps. Although, it would be good marketing to accidently let a leaked picture of the bb10 with a keyboard to show up. It would get many people, including me, excited.