Who does RIMM really compete with?

Android is an operating system made by Google
iPhone is made by Apple

From an investors standpoint, to compare RIMM to these other companies is kind of difficult, kind of like an apples to cabbage comparison. Yet, these other companies which are quite a bit more diversified than RIMM are putting extreme pressure on RIMMs market share and margins

In all of my research, Ive seen RIMM compared to HTC, NOKIA and Motorola...dont even get my started on NOK and MOT since they have both been beaten down over the past few years....

Should RIMM diversify? I dont think they can/should

Even pre-android, GOOG was a monster and still is now to a greater degree :eek:

I really believe the comparison between RIM and Android is an artificial one that makes for great water cooler talk more than anything else. The real competition is the other hardware manufacturer, which is still a difficult comparison because, as you say, they're all coming at the smart phone business from different angles.

My opinion, BES and BIS already put RIM in pretty exclusive company that none of its competitors are in. It's part of the value proposition that has allowed them to stay alive while their hardware lags behind their competitors (which won't be for long). They've also diversified some already by entering the tablet market, although I really think that was partly motivated by protecting their smart phone business.

But I agree, RIM should not stray from their core competency: stellar communications devices and the unique infrastructure that supports them. There's still plenty of growth to be had there before they need to start expanding into new businesses, although it never hurts to at least explore other avenues lest they get blindsided again like they were with the iPhone.

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it's pretty simple. They compete against Appple and the many companies that make android and windows phones.

I see why there is confusion on who RIM competes with. They aren't very good at communicating to their publics. They have 2 publics, corporate users and consumer users. They need to communicate that. I believe they need to have separate messages where appropriate.

Their phones are good for both, they just need to dumb down their OS, while still maintaining the customization. Also- hardware. They are taking a step in the right direction.

That is a real good point JL because Rimm doesn't actually compete directly with Google and honestly apple was already making alot of money before the iPhone so that only drove up their assets and Google isn't even a phone company. They just make the software and benefit from that and the marketing exposure that comes with it .

Both. RIMM is in competition with portions of Google/Apple/Microsoft because they all make an OS, and with Motorola/Nokia/HTC/Everyone because they make phones.

They compete with any company that can put a game on a handheld mobile device that can access cellular networks.

Originally Posted by SCrid2000

Both. RIMM is in competition with portions of Google/Apple/Microsoft because they all make an OS, and with Motorola/Nokia/HTC/Everyone because they make phones.

Right and the above fore mentioned companies are also in competion. Think about your phone purchase who makes a nickel off the purchase of a new phone? That's the competition.

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TBH, given Jim/Mike's attitudes, their main competition is their CEO.

(that and Microsoft/Google/Apple/BREW/every other mobile OS maker, and HTC/Motorola/Sony Ericsson/Nokia/Samsung/LG/every other phone manufacturer, and AT&T/Verizon/O2-UK/Orange-UK/every other mobile network operator.)

Originally Posted by jlspeed29

Should RIMM diversify? I dont think they can/should

Even if they could/should, what would they diversify into? As Fitty mentioned, they've already brought in a tablet, but I'd be surprised and disappointed if RIM tried to venture outside of the mobile device realm. Obviously, Apple and Google and Motorola are conglomerates with various divisions that have their hands in a hellofalota different stuff; I don't think (hopefully, anyway) RIM's vision is to be spread across as many different consumer experiences as Google and Apple are. Supporting my assumption is the fact that RIM's many recent acquisitions have been ways to bolster, improve and grow their smartphone and/or tablet business rather than to jump into a new arena altogether like Google seemingly just did with its purchase of ITA.

Originally Posted by RollingRock1988

I see why there is confusion on who RIM competes with. They aren't very good at communicating to their publics. They have 2 publics, corporate users and consumer users. They need to communicate that. I believe they need to have separate messages where appropriate.

Their phones are good for both, they just need to dumb down their OS, while still maintaining the customization. Also- hardware. They are taking a step in the right direction.

For who and how do they need to "dumb down their OS"?? And hardware??

Maybe if RIM really did have two different product lines, one for business and one for consumers that might make since.

But it would be the Business Line that would need the basic hardware and OS... to keep cost down. And the consumer line would have to be the better products in order to compete with the OS and Hardware being used in the consumer mobile device market today.

I use to trade rimm stock what a pile of sht imo. Get used to the regular big dumps after earnings or weak conference calls where investors flee for the door.
AAPL just continues to climb and goog goes up at a smaller pace these days. I think nok was a great investment for a trade right after the devastation in Japan which destroyed their stock value for only the time being and no deep future impact,imo.

What does it matter? They make a product you either like it or you don't, Rim competition happens up at investors/shareholders level and the real competition is always who makes more money.

Rim competing with others has nothing to do with the user/consumer, that's just to feed some people's egos.

Does Android even make any money? It's given to the manufacturers for free, android market makes foar less money then Appworld and Appstore.

I bet Google is losing money so far with Android, I wonder how long are they gonna support it?

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Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

What does it matter? They make a product you either like it or you don't, Rim competition happens up at investors/shareholders level and the real competition is always who makes more money.

Rim competing with others has nothing to do with the user/consumer, that's just to feed some people's egos.

Does Android even make any money? It's given to the manufacturers for free, android market makes foar less money then Appworld and Appstore.

I bet Google is losing money so far with Android, I wonder how long are they gonna support it?

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Yes Google gives the app to the manufacturers for free but I'm betting Google gets royalties (of sorts) with each phone sold.

Originally Posted by valorian

Yes Google gives the app to the manufacturers for free but I'm betting Google gets royalties (of sorts) with each phone sold.

Well, that wouldn't be free then would it? :)

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Ive read that RIMM charges carriers for their email service...can someone confirm? The reason I bring this up, is that android phones and iPhones dont charge for the email service... as this is putting increasing pressure on RIMM


Ill try to find the article

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

What does it matter? They make a product you either like it or you don't, Rim competition happens up at investors/shareholders level and the real competition is always who makes more money.

Rim competing with others has nothing to do with the user/consumer, that's just to feed some people's egos.

Does Android even make any money? It's given to the manufacturers for free, android market makes foar less money then Appworld and Appstore.

I bet Google is losing money so far with Android, I wonder how long are they gonna support it?

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Google is making a killing with android through advertising....

google has an ad network like apple...this helps with the free apps.

I'd rather pay and have my apps free of ads.

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Originally Posted by RollingRock1988

I see why there is confusion on who RIM competes with. They aren't very good at communicating to their publics. They have 2 publics, corporate users and consumer users. They need to communicate that. I believe they need to have separate messages where appropriate.

Their phones are good for both, they just need to dumb down their OS, while still maintaining the customization. Also- hardware. They are taking a step in the right direction.

I think it is really 3 groups:

(1) Corporate users who have no choice but to use what their company gives them.
(2) Corporate users (like me) who have a range of choices their company allows, including Android and iOS devices along with BB's, and who consider their personal wants and needs along side of their business needs.
(3) Consumer users

I think group (2) is growing. It is the case at my company. I want both of my needs filled!

Originally Posted by jlspeed29

Ive read that RIMM charges carriers for their email service...can someone confirm? The reason I bring this up, is that android phones and iPhones dont charge for the email service... as this is putting increasing pressure on RIMM


Ill try to find the article

Yes RIM does charge money for its BIS/BES to carriers, which is why not all carriers (think MVNO prepaid carriers, or cheap prepaid phone/data plans from major carriers like T-mobile/AT&T) have it.

The cost of BIS is something like 5-10 bucks, atleast thats what it seems because prepaid services that offer BIS always charge an extra 10 bucks for BlackBerry data. BES costs more on every carrier that supports it.

Im sure big carriers get a cheaper price, or work out a deal somehow, but maybe they dont since they have other avenues of generating that money (high texting prices for example).

Although RIM charges for BIS, that's data the phone company doesn't have to provides. I don't know the exact costs, but in the aggregate it seems unlikely paying RIM for BIS is a detriment to the cellular companies.

Originally Posted by Snipperdo17

Google is making a killing with android through advertising....

+1. Google is basically an advertising company. They write software so that they can sell advertising.

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