1. conite's Avatar
    Have we ever done a transition where the old goes away so soon after the new hits the market? By the time they starting phasing out 2G, "most" everyone had a phone with LTE and had for several years.
    4G/LTE came out (internationally) in 2010. That's all you need - unless your carrier denies advanced features.
    08-20-21 07:24 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Have we ever done a transition where the old goes away so soon after the new hits the market? By the time they starting phasing out 2G, "most" everyone had a phone with LTE and had for several years.
    Well, the analog-to-digital (2G) transition was fairly rapid, though there were a lot less people who had cell phones then. Given that 5G has only existed on the market for about 2 years does mean that this is fairly fast, but it's been talked about for 6-7 years already, and the simple fact is that there is a tidal wave of devices that are being held back from hitting the market (in the US especially) waiting for 5G to become widely available, because they would crush the current 4G LTE network. You can say that it's too fast for some people, but the reality is that most people in the US buy phones from their carriers and most replace them every 2-2.5 years, so I'd guess that 70% of people will have a seamless transition when that happens next year, and of the remaining 30%, at least 20% will be happy to upgrade early (likely with some trade-in incentives or something). That means that maybe 10% of their existing userbase will have SOME kind of problem with an upgrade, with money being the most common issue - and that can also be largely solved with incentives, potentially including free phones for some people. The 1% using BYOD phones who want to keep their phones for whatever reason will be offered incentives to move to a newer phone, but if that doesn't solve the problem, the carriers will consider them to be expendable. The carriers are looking at tons of new monthly subscriptions from 5G device customers (delivery drones, self-driving cars, etc.), and they're not going to hold that back for a few stubborn stragglers. And for older devices, there's no place to go anyway, because all of the carriers are shutting down 3G.

    The speed of this transition is being dictated by the needs of the greater marketplace, not just by the carriers setting an aggressive schedule for no particular reason.
    pdr733, JeepBB and Nathan Conley like this.
    08-21-21 02:02 PM
  3. jng0705's Avatar
    It's not a BB but close to a passport, how about a unihertz titan, reasonably priced even if a short term stop gap.
    09-03-21 04:31 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    It's not a BB but close to a passport, how about a unihertz titan, reasonably priced even if a short term stop gap.
    What do mean by short-term?
    09-03-21 06:50 PM
  5. DonnaDiva's Avatar
    Just got my Titan pocket. Too many key swaps and old-style small screen. I only bought it for a backup, don't think it will be a daily driver.
    09-04-21 08:05 PM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    What do mean by short-term?
    Well their site does still say 2021... so only a few months to go.
    09-09-21 09:11 AM
  7. Drg84's Avatar
    The Titan has treated me pretty well the last year and a half. Its been thrown against the wall, gone down concrete stairs, gotten wet more times than I can count and its holding up well. The only issue is it likes to double type letters at times, especially the i key.
    09-15-21 07:10 PM
  8. Ray III's Avatar
    What I find interesting is all the people (almost every one) who see my K2 and say, "I miss a PKB" If they all loved them so much, why did they all go iPhone five years ago and why hasn't there been more interest in making a PKB. I have said it here before and I'll say it again, I found out the thing I really loved about my Bold was the trackpad. Without that, the PKB alone is not worth waiting for and I don't see that happening because none of the app makers on Android is going to spend time supporting a trackpad.
    A pointer controlled by a trackpad would be enough, especially in the apps that have touch features scattered all over the screen where you can't easily reach holding the phone with one hand. Also, there is already support in Android for a control device other than the touchscreen to highlight and select options. We just haven't had any developer play around with that. The Key phones are really just another slab with a keyboard slapped on instead of a real effort to replicate a BB environment.
    09-16-21 07:23 AM
  9. Ray III's Avatar

    Imo, RIM's single greatest failure was letting Dan's bunch convince Mike that belt-less Q enjoyed even a slight chance... Here we are. Lol.
    I'll drink to that. The Classic is the phone that should have come out in January 2013. Anything else was either a crippled BB or an attempt to compete with the glass slabs, either way was a guaranteed failure but by sticking with the concept of the 9900 they may have held on to the niche market.
    jng0705 likes this.
    09-16-21 07:39 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I'll drink to that. The Classic is the phone that should have come out in January 2013. Anything else was either a crippled BB or an attempt to compete with the glass slabs, either way was a guaranteed failure but by sticking with the concept of the 9900 they may have held on to the niche market.
    What market niche?

    I'll agree that the Classic should have come in 2013, along with BB10.3. But reality is it wouldn't have changed anything... BB10 required 10 Million units to support it, and the PKB market wasn't that big.

    BIS is what sold BlackBerry's, not PKBs.
    09-16-21 08:04 AM
  11. idssteve's Avatar
    What market niche?

    I'll agree that the Classic should have come in 2013, along with BB10.3. But reality is it wouldn't have changed anything... BB10 required 10 Million units to support it, and the PKB market wasn't that big.

    BIS is what sold BlackBerry's, not PKBs.
    Storm had BIS. How successful was that? Lol.

    Of all the folks I know who bought BB before 2013, none EVER claimed it was for BIS. BES, yes, but BIS was simply tolerated as part of the package. In MY experience. Fwiw.

    9900 delivered a complete package of many features. Exquisite PKB was only one feature of that package. A feature that couldn't stand solely on its own. As BB et al has so thoroughly demonstrated since 2013.

    To slab phreeks, PKB proved the most visually obvious of 9900's feature set. Toolbelt second? USEful compactness is difficult to "see" in photos. I've long wondered if Dan Dodge's bunch EVER got closer than photos to a Bold? Lol.
    the_boon likes this.
    09-16-21 08:49 AM
  12. joeldf's Avatar
    Storm had BIS. How successful was that? Lol.

    Of all the folks I know who bought BB before 2013, none EVER claimed it was for BIS. BES, yes, but BIS was simply tolerated as part of the package. In MY experience. Fwiw.

    9900 delivered a complete package of many features. Exquisite PKB was only one feature of that package. A feature that couldn't stand solely on its own. As BB et al has so thoroughly demonstrated since 2013.

    To slab phreeks, PKB proved the most visually obvious of 9900's feature set. Toolbelt second? USEful compactness is difficult to "see" in photos. I've long wondered if Dan Dodge's bunch EVER got closer than photos to a Bold? Lol.
    Actually, BIS was a big deal to many in other parts of the world with expensive data plans with caps that were ridiculously low... especially compared to what we get now. It was mainly in North America that BIS was tolerated if you weren't given a BB with BES in a governmental, corporate or university setting.

    There were some really big BIS proponents right here on these forums. Belfastdispatcher was one of them. He was constantly bemoaning the demise of BIS on BB10. But, really, it's only other benefit after reduced data usage was push email. And even that was for only certain email services. My ISP's POP3-based email, and my OWA connection to my work email was stuck with the 15 minute polling cycle. I never got push email on my Pearl or Torch. Once BB10 came along with native EAS and complete IMAP capability, well... there's your push email right there.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-16-21 09:52 AM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Actually, BIS was a big deal to many in other parts of the world with expensive data plans with caps that were ridiculously low... especially compared to what we get now. It was mainly in North America that BIS was tolerated if you weren't given a BB with BES in a governmental, corporate or university setting.

    There were some really big BIS proponents right here on these forums. Belfastdispatcher was one of them. He was constantly bemoaning the demise of BIS on BB10. But, really, it's only other benefit after reduced data usage was push email. And even that was for only certain email services. My ISP's POP3-based email, and my OWA connection to my work email was stuck with the 15 minute polling cycle. I never got push email on my Pearl or Torch. Once BB10 came along with native EAS and complete IMAP capability, well... there's your push email right there.
    He lives in a bubble... if he doesn't experience it, it's not important.

    I do admit that BES was very important in US back in the day (1999 - 2010)... even had a "free" version (BESX) of it for smaller business. But BlackBerry's top sales came not from enterprise, but consumers or PRO users.... who didn't use BES or BESX.

    CrackBerry didn't start because of Enterprise or BES...
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-16-21 10:35 AM
  14. idssteve's Avatar
    Actually, BIS was a big deal to many in other parts of the world with expensive data plans with caps that were ridiculously low... especially compared to what we get now. It was mainly in North America that BIS was tolerated if you weren't given a BB with BES in a governmental, corporate or university setting.

    There were some really big BIS proponents right here on these forums. Belfastdispatcher was one of them. He was constantly bemoaning the demise of BIS on BB10. But, really, it's only other benefit after reduced data usage was push email. And even that was for only certain email services. My ISP's POP3-based email, and my OWA connection to my work email was stuck with the 15 minute polling cycle. I never got push email on my Pearl or Torch. Once BB10 came along with native EAS and complete IMAP capability, well... there's your push email right there.
    Well naturally, since I don't claim global expertise, I'm pretty careful to only express opinions about personal experience... Which was mostly NA.

    Sharing personal experience is what us non-expert enthusiasts do. . A "bubble" of non-authoritative personal experience. Each expecting while respecting each other's limited experience. Should go without say but most of my posts get plenty of "imo". Imo. Lol.

    Some did appreciate BIS' "unlimited" data on Pearl as mobile data link for laptop... Before learning of the legalities... Lol.

    BES was part of our company infrastructure. Which "RIM reps" pretty well supported. BIS support somewhat depended on expertise of CB authorities, imo. A "bubble" in itself, imo.

    Best thing about BIS, imo, was the "long term" priority hardware afforded by BIS SAF. Why this 10yr old Bold can still be on the road. Deriving sustainable revenues strictly out of hardware sales margin proved impossible to deliver too many of valued features.

    Users happily pay SAF for VPN, etc... I've long wondered how "impossible" it might've proven to migrate BIS into a BB VPN? Or?? SAF model?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-16-21 11:29 AM
  15. joeldf's Avatar

    Users happily pay SAF for VPN, etc... I've long wondered how "impossible" it might've proven to migrate BIS into a BB VPN? Or?? SAF model?
    You're not the only one who's wondered about that.

    Although, it wouldn't have been a straight migration. BIS was directly from the carrier to the BlackBerry NOCs, then out to the intended destination and back. The phones had to have that connection to the carrier first. Remember that first setup to put in your information and set the password was either on the phone itself once your SIM was running and connected to your carrier or through your specific carrier BIS Portal website.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-16-21 11:54 AM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    You're not the only one who's wondered about that.

    Although, it wouldn't have been a straight migration. BIS was directly from the carrier to the BlackBerry NOCs, then out to the intended destination and back. The phones had to have that connection to the carrier first. Remember that first setup to put in your information and set the password was either on the phone itself once your SIM was running and connected to your carrier or through your specific carrier BIS Portal website.
    I don't wonder so much about a VPN... as it's not really doing much unless your linking a device to a corporate network. But there are a lot of cloud services that BlackBerry should and could have expanded on.
    09-16-21 01:18 PM
  17. idssteve's Avatar
    I don't wonder so much about a VPN... as it's not really doing much unless your linking a device to a corporate network. But there are a lot of cloud services that BlackBerry should and could have expanded on.
    You dont use a vpn?
    09-16-21 05:12 PM
  18. idssteve's Avatar
    He lives in a bubble... if he doesn't experience it, it's not important.
    Yes, you are right. If i don't experience it, it's not important to ME. I'm not qualified to opine about what's important to others. That's up to THEM. And "Q&A Team" authorities like you. Who've earned well deserved respect from us "personal experience" reporters. I claim zero authority regarding ANYone else's experience. Only mine. That's the only bubble im qualified to opine from around here... lol

    Isn't that how a collaborative forum of mostly unqualified enthusiasts works?? If a post reporting personal experience matches others' experience they reply in agreement? If not, they reply in question?? ?? The resulting conversation contributes to broader perspectives?
    09-16-21 05:40 PM
  19. colinstone's Avatar
    I subscribed a few days ago to OM and got diddly squat. At this stage I would have expected a welcome email with some encouraging and warm words about the new device.
    The deafening silence to me indicates some pretty serious vapour ware. Similar to Theranos??
    09-23-21 07:33 AM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I subscribed a few days ago to OM and got diddly squat. At this stage I would have expected a welcome email with some encouraging and warm words about the new device.
    The deafening silence to me indicates some pretty serious vapour ware. Similar to Theranos??
    Yeah I don't know of anyone getting a reply to the Subscribe Form.... Now if you go to the Pre-Commitment Program and select 1000+ units, some where getting follow up emails from that.
    09-23-21 08:19 AM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I subscribed a few days ago to OM and got diddly squat. At this stage I would have expected a welcome email with some encouraging and warm words about the new device.
    The deafening silence to me indicates some pretty serious vapour ware. Similar to Theranos??
    Eventually you get a reply email. It doesn't represent anything in my opinion since it was like a generic auto-reply
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-23-21 11:57 AM
  22. Drg84's Avatar
    I personally hopped on BB with BB10 due to the fact it would work with any system or carrier. My kid brother was a BB Guy before me, he had one with the trackball, one of the curves? Anyway, the BES was always a limiting factor for people like me who didnt know if a BB7 Device would work with my carrier. After I got off my parents Verizon plan I went LG qwerty phone, then E71, E6, E5 briefly, Droid Pro briefly, Lumia 822 that broke due to welding slag contacting the screen then Q10. But every single phone was on a MVNO, and before BB10 a constant notification on every MVNO was "Blackberry Services Not Supported". In fact I Still had to tell Net10 "its not that kind of Blackberry" several times!
    neoberry99 likes this.
    10-11-21 08:06 PM
  23. intecms's Avatar
    I hope it will come in the next few months but i am still happy with my keyone

    Posted via CB10
    11-17-21 03:55 PM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I hope it will come in the next few months but i am still happy with my keyone

    Posted via CB10
    The only hope left is that one day it will happen, like peace on earth, cure for cancer and the end of basic hunger.
    shakingthrough and JeepBB like this.
    11-17-21 04:34 PM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I personally hopped on BB with BB10 due to the fact it would work with any system or carrier. My kid brother was a BB Guy before me, he had one with the trackball, one of the curves? Anyway, the BES was always a limiting factor for people like me who didnt know if a BB7 Device would work with my carrier. After I got off my parents Verizon plan I went LG qwerty phone, then E71, E6, E5 briefly, Droid Pro briefly, Lumia 822 that broke due to welding slag contacting the screen then Q10. But every single phone was on a MVNO, and before BB10 a constant notification on every MVNO was "Blackberry Services Not Supported". In fact I Still had to tell Net10 "its not that kind of Blackberry" several times!
    Yeah that the one thing I'm afraid of with the shutdown... there might even be some BB Android devices that get booted or disconnect, just because they are BlackBerry.
    11-18-21 09:24 AM
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