[Blackerthanblack]

Excuse me if this question is stupid, but considering that QNX is BlackBerry owned and on its official site there is a never ending list of things powered by QNX, why does BlackBerry suffer financially? Isn't the revenue supposed to go to the owner?

I'm a bit puzzled and my interest was aroused in the light of the recently unveiled partnerships with LG, VW and Ford. I'd appreciate if someone will shed some light on this subject...

[world traveler and former ceo]

I believe it goes under "software revenues"....

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[Dave Bourque]

Should be under but I'm also not sure if they record it under the BlackBerry name.

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[Ment]

QNX doesn't make much for BB, estimates are $3 per vehicle so its bundled under 'software revenues' for financial reporting purposes. Until QNX becomes a consumer facing product like the demos in this years Maserati or previous years demo on Mercedes I don't see the revenue picture changing much.

[Dave Bourque]

QNX doesn't make much for BB, estimates are $3 per vehicle so its bundled under 'software revenues' for financial reporting purposes. Until QNX becomes a consumer facing product like the demos in this years Maserati or previous years demo on Mercedes I don't see the revenue picture changing much.

3*50 mill is 150 in revenue. But I can't imagine that it's a one time $3 fee per car yearly maybe?

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[Ment]

3*50 mill is 150 in revenue. But I can't imagine that it's a one time $3 fee per car yearly maybe?

Posted via CB10

We probably won't ever know what the licensing terms are. I imagine there are some maintenance charges year to year. QNX has had over 50% marketshare for awhile now that is why I think revenue growth from licensing is limited with the current product adoption and additional revenue streams from QNX has to come from connected car products.

[Dave Bourque]

We probably won't ever know what the licensing terms are. I imagine there are some maintenance charges year to year. QNX has had over 50% marketshare for awhile now that is why I think revenue growth from licensing is limited with the current product adoption and additional revenue streams from QNX has to come from connected car products.

But they aren't just used in cars. They were bigger in other things before that like embedded systems on power plants and ISS. So we're missing the whole picture on this.

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[Ment]

But they aren't just used in cars. They were bigger in other things before that like embedded systems on power plants and ISS. So we're missing the whole picture on this.

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We know the software revenue part of ER is small so that would include QNX used in non-auto. Unless you are saying QNX earns even less per auto and the rest is from other QNX products. If BB announces other non-auto QNX wins that will contribute to alot more revenue of course that would change.

[Blackerthanblack]

Thanks for the replies. I still think it's a bit odd that it generates a relatively limited amount of money when in theory it should be enough to grant the mother company a solid financial status.

[randall2580]

When QNX was purchased by then RIM in 2010 it was for rumored (not confirmed I do not think) 200 million dollars which was reported to be 4x QNX's annual revenues.

No doubt BlackBerry has grown QNX since then but Chen has continually declined (although he has been asked numerous times) to quantify QNX's contribution to BlackBerry's bottom line.

[Ment]

Thanks for the replies. I still think it's a bit odd that it generates a relatively limited amount of money when in theory it should be enough to grant the mother company a solid financial status.

QNX is considered middle-ware, software that interfaces between hardware to an OEM layer which the consumer sees. Because QNX doesn't give Ford more capabilities than QNX does for XYZ car corp they can't charge much for it. The middleware layer is not a differentiator, something the OEM can use to drive sales to their brand. Android has some of the same issues which is why alot of phone brands have overlays like Sense, TouchWiz etc to make their products stand out.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

We know the software revenue part of ER is small so that would include QNX used in non-auto. Unless you are saying QNX earns even less per auto and the rest is from other QNX products. If BB announces other non-auto QNX wins that will contribute to alot more revenue of course that would change.

Correct... we don't know what QNX makes... only that it isn't very much based on BlackBerry's earnings reports. Eight percent of 793 Million is only around 64 Million.... and BlackBerry has many other software divisions that should be bringing in "something" so this isn't all QNX.

We have seen a lot on QNX and how it works on these concept cars... the problem is most manufactures aren't buying the full package. They get the basic QNX package to "run" the car and then build or use another software package that the USER "sees". From what I've read QNX gets a one time fee and it's more like X number of dollars per thousand cars. Updates are part of the UI software package... unless their is a design flaw of some sort that requires the updating of the base OS.

I don't think automotive will ever be a huge money maker for QNX.. most car companies want their own software (or a Branded one that has value) to be visible to the consumer. But for a small company (division) like QNX a small revenue is all they need. Now in the future they maybe able to convert over to other markets where either the volume or licensing fees could be much more lucrative.

[Cesare21]

JC once said that QNX licensing doesn't provide for much bottom line for BlackBerry. Most if not all, QNX revenue is by licensing the software which isn�t much.

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[MmmHmm]

3*50 mill is 150 in revenue. But I can't imagine that it's a one time $3 fee per car yearly maybe?

Posted via CB10

I'm sure it's a one time fee. The car only gets sold new once, and then who would pay a subscription after that for the firmware in the car? I bought the car. I don't need to keep paying licensing fees to be able to continue to use the radio.

This type of software just isn't all that valuable (in the scale of multibillion dollar companies). It's just one level of the software needed to run one small portion of a vehicle (vehicles are full of software driven machinery and gadgets - how much do you really think any one of those software packages is worth?). It's got some value, but not enough to support a company the size of blackberry.

[Dave Bourque]

I'm sure it's a one time fee. The car only gets sold new once, and then who would pay a subscription after that for the firmware in the car? I bought the car. I don't need to keep paying licensing fees to be able to continue to use the radio.

This type of software just isn't all that valuable (in the scale of multibillion dollar companies). It's just one level of the software needed to run one small portion of a vehicle (vehicles are full of software driven machinery and gadgets - how much do you really think any one of those software packages is worth?). It's got some value, but not enough to support a company the size of blackberry.

This software is regularly updated that's why I think there should be a subscription.

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[whatsever]

QNX is doing project ion and they also made software for some robots, Texas Instrument (something with computers) , they also doing stuff for self driving cars, They also did something with self remote camera's and flying Camera's and more.

[Fevr]

New QNX supports over the air updates to vehicles. Would be nice if they could charge for each use of this service!

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[alan510]

New QNX supports over the air updates to vehicles. Would be nice if they could charge for each use of this service!

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Well at the very least, use BlackBerry's global server network for the distribution. You'd have to think the OTA operations have to be secure. Perhaps that's where the money is in the future.

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[THBW]

Correct... we don't know what QNX makes... only that it isn't very much based on BlackBerry's earnings reports. Eight percent of 793 Million is only around 64 Million.... and BlackBerry has many other software divisions that should be bringing in "something" so this isn't all QNX.

We have seen a lot on QNX and how it works on these concept cars... the problem is most manufactures aren't buying the full package. They get the basic QNX package to "run" the car and then build or use another software package that the USER "sees". From what I've read QNX gets a one time fee and it's more like X number of dollars per thousand cars. Updates are part of the UI software package... unless their is a design flaw of some sort that requires the updating of the base OS.

I don't think automotive will ever be a huge money maker for QNX.. most car companies want their own software (or a Branded one that has value) to be visible to the consumer. But for a small company (division) like QNX a small revenue is all they need. Now in the future they maybe able to convert over to other markets where either the volume or licensing fees could be much more lucrative.

I think you are missing the point. Modest pricing but large market share is a very enviable position in the conservative car market. The low pricing is actually a barrier to entry for new companies and given QNX's cost effectiveness and high reliability, car companies stick with it. For Ford to switch over from Windows was a big deal and it pretty much tells you that things must have been bad. Going forward, the consumers ever increasing demand for connectivity means that over time, the value and scope of the middle ware increases. So you have a built in price increase with little competition. This is exactly the sort of scenario Warren Buffet looks for.

[Bla1ze]

Excuse me if this question is stupid, but considering that QNX is BlackBerry owned and on its official site there is a never ending list of things powered by QNX, why does BlackBerry suffer financially? Isn't the revenue supposed to go to the owner?

I'm a bit puzzled and my interest was aroused in the light of the recently unveiled partnerships with LG, VW and Ford. I'd appreciate if someone will shed some light on this subject...

QNX remains a subsidiary of BlackBerry and as such BlackBerry does not have to report their specific profits and they're kept sep. from those of BlackBerry. They can't report any earnings of QNX on BlackBerry's bottom line so even if they were a multi-billion dollar company, we'd never know it. It is estimated to worth $200M+ though.

[MmmHmm]

This software is regularly updated that's why I think there should be a subscription.

Posted via CB10

No one would pay a subscription fee for updates to infotainment firmware. That's just not how that market works.

An analogy - Imagine if Blackberry started charging a subscription fee to be able to get updates to BB10 on phones. Guess how well that strategy would likely work out. Not very well. People aren't used to paying for that and none of the other companies in that market charge a subscription. It would just look like a money grab and would almost certainly backfire.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Right. Imagine if you had to pay Sony or Samsung or Panasonic a subscription fee every year in order to get firmware updates for your BluRay player or TV? People would throw a fit, and boycott the brand.

[early2bed]

Whatever QNX brings in revenue, it's probably less than what some people here would have Blackberry spend on marketing. For example, Chinese smartphone maker ZTE is trying to do a smartphone marketing campaign of $150 million this year.

[Troy Tiscareno]

When BB bought QNX 4 years ago, its yearly earnings were $40M/year. Even if BB has doubled profits from QNX (highly unlikely given the way the licenses are structured), that would only be $80M per year. No doubt QNX has grown, but I don't think it has doubled in 4 years - QNX was already heavily used in the auto market in 2010.

[Double_J75]

I don't think it is much either but it's strange to think you generate little cash for half of the market share. Even if they have it all it still is insignificant in terms of the bottom line.

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