Where BlackBerry phones could be sold with TCL partnership?
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Remember, Chen is discussing their demand, he isn't saying they hold those markets exclusively.02-14-17 10:14 PMLike 0 - Who was buying BB10 devices? ... mainly consumers. Even if you went wild and said that 25 percent was to non consumers. The number of BB10 units sold is very very small in comparison to the sale of Samsung's and iPhones to non consumers.
Can TLC make a non consumer break through ? I do not see it.
I see the same old patterns emerging. New BlackBerry phones being purchased by PKB enthusiasts.
All those non consumer entities will not be switching over to TLC any time soon. It will take many years to bring back the brand.Last edited by Bbnivende; 02-14-17 at 10:32 PM.
02-14-17 10:20 PMLike 0 - Do you have a source for this? BlackBerry has spent the past few years marketing their devices almost exclusively to enterprise and governments, BB10 doesn't really cater to the consumer market (app gap, lack of first party cloud services, no movies or music in BB World, etc). If ~75% of their BB10 sales were still to regular consumers I think the brand is in a much better position than you give it credit for.02-14-17 11:45 PMLike 0
- As far as I know BlackBerry basically dismantled their corporate sales division a couple of years ago. Their lack of marketing was across the board.
They have almost no market share because few are buying their phones. You must be assuming that because you never see BlackBerry phones or know many people that own one that non consumers must be buying them. This is a fallacy. You do not see BlackBerry phones in the wild because so few use them.
If the Mercury has any kind of sales in year one , it will be because of PKB enthusiasts.02-15-17 12:55 AMLike 0 - Best estimates are that a total of 10-11M BB10 phones (across all BB10 models) were sold to date. We can guess that around 3-4M are likely still in active use - mostly newer models like the Classic and Passport, but still some Z10/Q10. I would be very surprised if there are 1M BB10 phones in use by enterprise/government (which includes medical enterprise) worldwide today. Bbnivende is absolutely correct in saying that most BB10 sales came from existing BB fans; i.e., consumers. Of the 10-11M total phones sold, I'd guess that 3M or fewer were enterprise/government sales.
The reason BB clings so closely to the "we're for government/enterprise" isn't because those are who have been buying their phones for the last 5 years - but rather, that's who BB hoped would buy their phones because they can achieve better margins with government/enterprise by bundling phones with services, such as BES, which has reoccurring fees. There's little hope of service fees from consumers - BB has to make every penny of profit on a consumer sale when they actually sell the phone, because the pennies they make off of what's left isn't enough to cover expenses.
So, yes, that whole "government/enterprise" used to be true, but for the last few years, it's really been nothing but spin and empty hope.02-15-17 02:14 AMLike 0 - As far as I know BlackBerry basically dismantled their corporate sales division a couple of years ago. Their lack of marketing was across the board.
They have almost no market share because few are buying their phones. You must be assuming that because you never see BlackBerry phones or know many people that own one that non consumers must be buying them. This is a fallacy. You do not see BlackBerry phones in the wild because so few use them.
Blackberry and Its Agency Discuss Turnaround | BtoB - AdAge
Best estimates are that a total of 10-11M BB10 phones (across all BB10 models) were sold to date. We can guess that around 3-4M are likely still in active use - mostly newer models like the Classic and Passport, but still some Z10/Q10. I would be very surprised if there are 1M BB10 phones in use by enterprise/government (which includes medical enterprise) worldwide today. Bbnivende is absolutely correct in saying that most BB10 sales came from existing BB fans; i.e., consumers. Of the 10-11M total phones sold, I'd guess that 3M or fewer were enterprise/government sales.
The reason BB clings so closely to the "we're for government/enterprise" isn't because those are who have been buying their phones for the last 5 years - but rather, that's who BB hoped would buy their phones because they can achieve better margins with government/enterprise by bundling phones with services, such as BES, which has reoccurring fees. There's little hope of service fees from consumers - BB has to make every penny of profit on a consumer sale when they actually sell the phone, because the pennies they make off of what's left isn't enough to cover expenses.
So, yes, that whole "government/enterprise" used to be true, but for the last few years, it's really been nothing but spin and empty hope.
Edit: And I should also add that whatever market they claimed to have obviously wasn't big enough to sustain BB10, I doubt we'd be having this discussion if it was.Last edited by Invictus0; 02-15-17 at 11:07 AM.
02-15-17 10:49 AMLike 0 - I'm assuming that because what Chen said lines up with the markets they've targeted over the past few years and the direction they've taken BB10 in. They've had a smaller marketing presence compared to 2013 but their advertising has largely been enterprise focused.
Blackberry and Its Agency Discuss Turnaround | BtoB - AdAge
The statement was from 2015 so I'm sure the numbers were higher then but BB10 could have certainly found a niche segment within those markets that they could cater to (they used to tout exclusive certifications IIRC), obviously they didn't hold those markets exclusively and I don't think anyone has made that claim.
Even then they were still so out of touch with customers views......Bbnivende likes this.02-15-17 11:10 AMLike 1 -
- They tried to bring a product to market to both consumers and enterprise but it was too little too late just like the storm. At the end of the day, incorporating android runtime into bb10 doomed it from the get go. Too many "ported" apps. Instead of developers getting their apps to the new devices by making a native application they instead to the lazy mans way by repackaging their existing android counterpart making for more and more half baked experiences. If bb10 had no android compatability layers they could have saved some of the money used to try and make it work "better " and made more native apps and kept them supported. There was a lot of optimism at the beginning of bb10 and I was excited to see it unfold. Wish it went another way but eh it is what it is and the market has spoken.
Posted Via Passport with CB10 app02-15-17 08:53 PMLike 0 -
- No Android Runtime and very little native app support with nothing to fall back on (i.e., quick death in the market)
- Include an Android Runtime, get very little native app support, but be more attractive to more people due to partial Android app compatibility (i.e., a longer-term death).
There was no choice that would have made BB10 a success with a 2013 release. By the start of 2010, the app platform wars had already been won by Apple and Google.02-15-17 09:33 PMLike 0 - I've heard this many times, and while you're not wrong (the Android runtime was going to spell long-term doom), by the time BB10 was actually being worked on, BB's choices were:
- No Android Runtime and very little native app support with nothing to fall back on (i.e., quick death in the market)
- Include an Android Runtime, get very little native app support, but be more attractive to more people due to partial Android app compatibility (i.e., a longer-term death).
There was no choice that would have made BB10 a success with a 2013 release. By the start of 2010, the app platform wars had already been won by Apple and Google.
Posted Via Passport with CB10 app02-15-17 09:38 PMLike 0 - And don't forget...no one knows what the likes of Google and Apple did to kill BB10 'behind the scenes' to ensure it was not a success. In retrospect it certainly seems very odd (and perhaps not so accidental) that so many key apps were missing from BB10 upon its initial release. Obviously no one can ever know for sure what happened, but certainly it would have been in both of their interests to pressure and/or use incentives to convince key developers to not produce BB10 versions of their apps.02-15-17 09:48 PMLike 0
- And don't forget...no one knows what the likes of Google and Apple did to kill BB10 'behind the scenes' to ensure it was not a success. In retrospect it certainly seems very odd (and perhaps not so accidental) that so many key apps were missing from BB10 upon its initial release. Obviously no one can ever know for sure what happened, but certainly it would have been in both of their interests to pressure and/or use incentives to convince key developers to not produce BB10 versions of their apps.
Posted Via Passport with CB10 app02-15-17 09:52 PMLike 0 -
Apple and Google were worried about EACH OTHER - they had absolutely zero reason to burn a single calorie worrying about BB10 or WinPhone or Sailfish or any other OS. None of them were at all relevant with regards to marketshare or developer appeal - so they simply let the market work.Bbnivende and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.02-15-17 11:30 PMLike 2 - I've heard this many times, and while you're not wrong (the Android runtime was going to spell long-term doom), by the time BB10 was actually being worked on, BB's choices were:
- No Android Runtime and very little native app support with nothing to fall back on (i.e., quick death in the market)
- Include an Android Runtime, get very little native app support, but be more attractive to more people due to partial Android app compatibility (i.e., a longer-term death).
There was no choice that would have made BB10 a success with a 2013 release. By the start of 2010, the app platform wars had already been won by Apple and Google.
And don't forget...no one knows what the likes of Google and Apple did to kill BB10 'behind the scenes' to ensure it was not a success. In retrospect it certainly seems very odd (and perhaps not so accidental) that so many key apps were missing from BB10 upon its initial release. Obviously no one can ever know for sure what happened, but certainly it would have been in both of their interests to pressure and/or use incentives to convince key developers to not produce BB10 versions of their apps.Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.02-15-17 11:47 PMLike 1 - They tried to bring a product to market to both consumers and enterprise but it was too little too late just like the storm. At the end of the day, incorporating android runtime into bb10 doomed it from the get go. Too many "ported" apps. Instead of developers getting their apps to the new devices by making a native application they instead to the lazy mans way by repackaging their existing android counterpart making for more and more half baked experiences. If bb10 had no android compatability layers they could have saved some of the money used to try and make it work "better " and made more native apps and kept them supported. There was a lot of optimism at the beginning of bb10 and I was excited to see it unfold. Wish it went another way but eh it is what it is and the market has spoken.
Posted Via Passport with CB10 app
What we saw in 2013 and on was just entropy. A winding down. They could have kept BBOS and no BB10 going with the same result.
The orphaned their entire BBOS platform. The transition was doomed.
Posted via CB10Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.02-16-17 01:18 AMLike 1 - Snicker as you may...BlackBerry was still a multi-billion dollar company with about 80 million users (and about 10% of the market) at the time. Anyone who thinks BlackBerry's lucrative niche was not worth their effort (and worth fighting for) is obviously no businessman. Lol.02-16-17 03:07 PMLike 0
- They presumed that they would have enough legacy owners and Enterprise users coming over in such numbers so as to create some instant credibility.
What we saw in 2013 and on was just entropy. A winding down. They could have kept BBOS and no BB10 going with the same result.
The orphaned their entire BBOS platform. The transition was doomed.
Posted via CB10
You can say that it's easy for us to say that now... with hindsight. But there were some here that were saying it in 2009 and 2010 (not me - I taught BlackBerry still had time then).02-17-17 09:22 AMLike 0 - The very first missing step was their failure to make a good all touch phone. The 9850 should have been the precursor to the Z10 and it should have been competitive to other 2011 phones. Even the VKB was very poorly rated. That phone should have been capable of being transitioned to their new OS . The new OS only had to replicate the iPhone experience to be successful. Later iterations could have introduced some gesture innovations.02-17-17 10:19 AMLike 0
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Where BlackBerry phones could be sold with TCL partnership?
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